Are cartoons from the Middle East really that messed up?

[The Overlord]

After hearing about hamas using a Mickey Mouse clone to promote Islamic fundamentalism, I have to ask:Are cartoons from the Middle East really that messed up?

[Dudley]

No, just the ones that promote violence.

[Silverstar]

After hearing about hamas using a Mickey Mouse clone to promote islamic fundamentalism, I have to ask:Are cartoons from the Middle East really that messed up?

That's not really a fair or accurate question, because the character you're talking about, 'Farfour', wasn't a cartoon; he was an actor in a Mickey Mouse lookalike costume who appeared on a Hamas based live-action childrens' show that encouraged kids to fight Americans and preached armed resistance against Israel.

Anyway, they're not even doing that show anymore; they recently aired the last episode in which Farfour is killed; beaten to death by an actor portraying an Israeli official attempting to buy Farfour's land. At one point, the squeaky-voiced black and white rodent called the Israeli a "terrorist."

Such a thing is sick and wrong, true, but it is in no way a reflection on Middle East cartoons; it was just a morally bankrupt attempt to promote violence and preach hatred to children.

[MonkeyFunk]

Check this out:
http://www.channel4.com/film/reviews/film.jsp?id=145665

[The Overlord]

That's not really a fair or accurate question, because the character you're talking about, 'Farfour', wasn't a cartoon; he was an actor in a Mickey Mouse lookalike costume who appeared on a Hamas based live-action childrens' show that encouraged kids to fight Americans and preached armed resistance against Israel.

Anyway, they're not even doing that show anymore; they recently aired the last episode in which Farfour is killed; beaten to death by an actor portraying an Israeli official attempting to buy Farfour's land. At one point, the squeaky-voiced black and white rodent called the Israeli a "terrorist."

Such a thing is sick and wrong, true, but it is in no way a reflection on Middle East cartoons; it was just a morally bankrupt attempt to promote violence and preach hatred to children.


But what I'm asking is how common are cartoons like that promote a similar meassage in the Middle East. I have seen a Iranian cartoons on youtube that seemed to be propaganda in nature, how common is that?

[Rasputin]

How many animation studios must the Middle East have? Iran is one thing, they have a strong and healthy civil society going on there, but in the rest of the Middle East the number of studios in existence can't be more than single figures. I heavily doubt the Gaza Strip has any. Propaganda cartoons are hardly an issue if there's no one to make them.

[The Overlord]

How many animation studios must the Middle East have? Iran is one thing, they have a strong and healthy civil society going on there, but in the rest of the Middle East the number of studios in existence can't be more than single figures. I heavily doubt the Gaza Strip has any. Propaganda cartoons are hardly an issue if there's no one to make them.

I'm not sure, that's why I'm asking. There could be small animation studios that recieve state assitance in some of the better off ME countries: Iran, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, etc.

[The Weed Of Cri]

In virtually all Middle East nations (except Israel and now, Iraq), the government controls the media. I wouldn't expect too much in the way of creativity, and everything will be made to the standard of what the government considers culturally acceptible. Unlike many posters here, I'm inclined to think there is more programming like "Farfour" than otherwise, because that's the way the old Soviet Union and other totalitarian states run their media. Indoctrination of the young is an important function of the media in such countries.

The way "Farfour" manipulated the emotions of the children who watched it went beyond propaganda and would probably meet the definition of brainwashing. Any government that would broadcast something like that is guilty of crimes against humanity. I find it curious that the same touchy-feely groups that go ballistic over the unproven assumption of psychological harm done to America's children by watching "violent" programming are so silent over this.

[Rasputin]

How about Qatar? It's home to Al-Jazeera, which is pretty much a beacon for journalistic integrity in the region. While Syria would have an interest in anti-American and anti-Israeli propaganda, most other countries in the Arab world are either American beneficiaries (Jordan, Kuwait, Bahrain) or in little position to control much of anything (Saudi Arabia, being a feudalist anachronism dependent on a bloated welfare state to keep its unemployed masses from stringing all 50,000 members of the House of Saud from the nearest lamp-posts, and Palestine, which can't be called a state with a straight face). Like I said before, Iran has a vibrant civil society, so while there would be substantial propaganda, there'd be even more substantial amounts of everything else that the government leaves mostly alone.

[macattack]

I don't know about Mideast animation studios, but I believe most of the imported cartoons over there (whether Japanese, European, or yes, from the USA) get sliced up a LOT more than they are in the US and Europe, and often receive a cultural makeover as well. And good luck on certain series even getting a legal release over there, too.

[Dr.Pepper]

^Yes they do. I heard that on Simpsons in the Middle East they changed Duff to root beer and removed scenes of them at church.

[Anthonynotes]

^Yes they do. I heard that on Simpsons in the Middle East they changed Duff to root beer and removed scenes of them at church.

Yep... since drinking alcohol is against Islamic beliefs. Didn't know that about church scenes though (would guess entire episodes wouldn't work if that's been done)...

NPR had a story about the release of the show to the Middle East a year or two ago, but I can't find a link for it on their website...

-B.

[Gokou Ruri]

After hearing about hamas using a Mickey Mouse clone to promote Islamic fundamentalism, I have to ask:Are cartoons from the Middle East really that messed up? Most countries that aren't America have issues with government controlling or otherwise censoring what can be shown on TV. For example, in Japan, you can't really portray the Japanese government as being evil, or bad, or make fun of it, especially the lader of Japan. Compared to shows like, Lil' Bush, or South Park which often make fun of the government and our leader. In this case, countries with small media industries are often bullied around by the government, which can lead to propaganda cartoons and the like.

Different views for different parts of the world. :sweat:

[HellCat]

Most countries that aren't America have issues with government controlling or otherwise censoring what can be shown on TV. For example, in Japan, you can't really portray the Japanese government as being evil, or bad, or make fun of it, especially the lader of Japan. Compared to shows like, Lil' Bush, or South Park which often make fun of the government and our leader. In this case, countries with small media industries are often bullied around by the government, which can lead to propaganda cartoons and the like.

Different views for different parts of the world. :sweat:

Are you sure? Alot of Japanese children aimed shows like anime and sentai seem to have used plots which paint negative portrayals of those in power, including Japan. I believe also that it's been said Akira Kurosawa partially intended Seven Samurai as an apology to those of non-samurai lineage, as he is of such a lineage and disagreed with the acts said class system performed on others.

[Gokou Ruri]

Are you sure? Alot of Japanese children aimed shows like anime and sentai seem to have used plots which paint negative portrayals of those in power, including Japan. Well, shadowy organizations are one thing, but flat out saying "The Japanese Government, led by Emperor Akihito and Prime-Minister Shinzo Abe" is another, so it depends which examples you're using. (Like how in Evangelion SEELE was the UN and the "evil" organization, but NERV was the Japanese one and the "good" organization, to use a vague example).


I believe also that it's been said Akira Kurosawa partially intended Seven Samurai as an apology to those of non-samurai lineage, as he is of such a lineage and disagreed with the acts said class system performed on others. Seven Samurai was a movie, though. Not a show on television. Different standards I'd imagine (plus it's not really comparable to stuff like Lil' Bush or all the other political cartoons out there that make fun of Bush and his Cabinet.)

[Jave]

Most countries that aren't America have issues with government controlling or otherwise censoring what can be shown on TV. For example, in Japan, you can't really portray the Japanese government as being evil, or bad, or make fun of it, especially the lader of Japan. Compared to shows like, Lil' Bush, or South Park which often make fun of the government and our leader. In this case, countries with small media industries are often bullied around by the government, which can lead to propaganda cartoons and the like.

Different views for different parts of the world. :sweat:Japan =/= "Most countries that aren't America"

[The Overlord]

Most countries that aren't America have issues with government controlling or otherwise censoring what can be shown on TV. For example, in Japan, you can't really portray the Japanese government as being evil, or bad, or make fun of it, especially the lader of Japan. Compared to shows like, Lil' Bush, or South Park which often make fun of the government and our leader. In this case, countries with small media industries are often bullied around by the government, which can lead to propaganda cartoons and the like.

Different views for different parts of the world. :sweat:

But still I don't think you have Japanese cartoons that actively promote a very radical ideology or inspire hatred towards others. There is some racist manga in Japan, but I have never heard that translate into a geniuely racist anime. Respect for authority is one thing, actively promoting hatred is another.

[Gokou Ruri]

But still I don't think you have Japanese cartoons that actively promote a very radical ideology or inspire hatred towards others. There is some racist manga in Japan, but I have never heard that translate into a geniuely racist anime. Respect for authority is one thing, actively promoting hatred is another. I was just mentioning how the government can control and shape what can and can't be portrayed in the media and used that as an example.

Not all countries have the first amendment and all that, is my basic point.

[SkullRing]

I'm just wondering, why hasn't South PArk made fun of Farfour yet?

[GuardianKid13]

I'm just wondering, why hasn't South PArk made fun of Farfour yet?
...Maybe because the show is on a 5 month break?

[The Weed Of Cri]

It's home to Al-Jazeera, which is pretty much a beacon for journalistic integrity in the region.

Are you serious?! Al-Jazeera is the propaganda and recruitment arm of half the terrorist organizations currently operating in the Middle East. Every time Al-Queda needs to prove Osama bin Laden is still alive, then send the tape to Al-J, which broadcasts it all over the Arab World. They have televised the beheadings of Daniel Pearl and other victims of terrorist atrocities. They have given horribly slanted views of the Arab-Israeli conflict, doing human interest stories on Palestinian homes destroyed by "Jewish agression" while conveniently omitting the fact that those homes had been used as hiding places for rocket launchers that sent missiles into Israeli civilian neighborhoods.


Not all countries have the first amendment and all that, is my basic point.

Actually, no other country has the equilvalent of free speech protection written into the fundamental basis of its government. Even nations that we generally accept as "free", like Canada and the United Kingdom, have stronger government controls over their television and radio media than the United States ever had, particularly where political views and criticism of the government in concerned.


I'm just wondering, why hasn't South PArk made fun of Farfour yet?

They're between seasons right now. Give 'em time.

[Rasputin]

Are you serious?! Al-Jazeera is the propaganda and recruitment arm of half the terrorist organizations currently operating in the Middle East.

Yes, I'm serious. Al-Jazeera has gotten into trouble with governments across the Middle East due to its insistence on journalistic independence. It has tapes sent to it by Al-Qaeda simply because it has quite possibly the widest network of journalists in the Middle East right now, and it isn't controlled by some countries' propaganda division. If it didn't exist, those tapes would just be sent to the nearest Middle Eastern news network. Al Jazeera is the largest. So it gets the tapes.

Anyone who calls it a 'propaganda and recruitment arm' has obviously never watched it. Al Jazeera has a stated mission to provide both sides of the debate. It doesn't condone suicide bombing, it simply provides a platform for those typically shunned by Western news media more concerned with events closer to home. Its english-language channel had its first news item as a suicide bombing in Israel, giving frequent air time to coverage of how horrible the event was, and its first major interview with Tony Blair by Sir David Frost for god's sake. You can't get more pedigree free press than that.

[The Weed Of Cri]

it simply provides a platform for those typically shunned by Western news media

Yeah, the Holocaust-denying, let's-drive-all-the-Jews-into-the-sea genocidal crowd who are shunned by the Western news media because they're all barking mad. And their English-language channel is less slanted than their home broadcast because that's the only way they'd find buyers for their channel feed in the West.

[Gokou Ruri]

Actually, no other country has the equilvalent of free speech protection written into the fundamental basis of its government. Even nations that we generally accept as "free", like Canada and the United Kingdom, have stronger government controls over their television and radio media than the United States ever had, particularly where political views and criticism of the government in concerned. I figured, but I didn't want to say "no other" since I figured someone would have cited some small obscure country and prove me wrong :sweat: