What's best for kids (7 & under)?

[maczero]

Ultra PC/Sickeningly sweet toons that
1) promote positive messages
2) always have happy endings

or

Toons that keep it real by
1) showing life isn't always fair (like good guys don't always win)
2) dealing with heavy subjects like death

[MonkeyFunk]

This doesn't strike me as the most balanced poll I've seen in my life.

[Rasputin]

No wait wait wait, I think this can be turned into a genuine debate. Sure, the opening post isn't doing it any favours, but there is a real difference of opinion here, so my advice is to ignore the tone and say what you honestly think.

I'm sympathetic to the view that kids should be exposed to the gamut of human experiences to better prepare them for life in the big, bad world, but it needs to be balanced with an awareness that gratuitously unleashing the horrors of the world onto youngsters is just going to make them paranoid in the long run. Yes, the world can be a dark and dangerous place, but it can be a thrilling and beautiful place too. It's up to you what to make of it, and that's what I believe kid's television should emphasise. Bad things happen, but you can still find a place in the world if you just keep trying.

Once you get into adult programming, then you can be as abjectly hopeless as you desire. :D

[maczero]

This doesn't strike me as the most balanced poll I've seen in my life.
Not necessarily. Think of it based on styles of parenting. I've known plenty of people who were exposed to mature themes in different media such as movies, tv or music. For instance they saw rated R movies with their parents. The common argument I hear from the parents is that they don't believe in sheltering their children.

[zoombie]

I would balence it out, show what you consider possitve shows, and throw in what you consider some realstic shows as well. Though I disagree that possitive can't be realistic, and realistic is only negative, but those are your words not mine.

Speaking of balence, don't forget to include some Avatar, it is a great show for all ages, some episodes not for really really young kids. Most of the times the good guys win, but the bad guys get their share of victories too.

I would show kids shows with flawed or gray characters. In real life, most people are not angels nor are they evil. To let kids think the world consists of people that all good and all bad, is not a message I would sent.

[HG Revolution]

Shows for ages 7 and under shouldn't lie to them, and they should contain conflict. The type of conflict is where judgment comes in. I mean, any 4-year-old can grasp the family-based situations in My Neighbor Totoro, but would be lost to the context (and as such, more vulnerable to the violent imagery) of Princess Mononoke.

[MonkeyFunk]

The trouble with the topic is that it doesn't give any named examples of shows for either category, so I'm left wondering at what point a cartoon stops "keeping it real" an becomes "sickeningly sweet".

(and doesn't dealing with death and showing that life isn't fair kind of constitute promoting positive values?)

[Gokou Ruri]

So.. Something like Ed, Edd, and Eddy where the Eds always lose? No thanks, that just pisses people off.

[zoombie]

The trouble with the topic is that it doesn't give any named examples of shows for either category, so I'm left wondering at what point a cartoon stops "keeping it real" an becomes "sickeningly sweet".

(and doesn't dealing with death and showing that life isn't fair kind of constitute promoting positive values?)

Also the idea of a show just having all good and all bad characters, black and white, as oppose to a show with a world full of gray characters.

What the poll says, I think if you list all the "Ultra / PC shows sickningly sweet toons" it would be very short, "Keeping it real" there are so many. Here is how I categore shows, and what fits in what category for you all.

Sickningly Sweet

Mickey Mouse
Any kids show on PBS
Dora The Exployer
Blues Clues (though not a cartoon)
Strawberry Shortcake
Carebears
My Little Pony
A couple of others like them, you get the idea.

Keep It Real

Almost anything else

Though there are some that don't fit into either, such as the classic Looney Toons or something like Tom And Jerry, they are not sickningly sweet, nor do they keep it real, some of the things that happen like falling off a cliff, in which the characters always get up in perfect health, in real life you would be dead.

[maczero]

The trouble with the topic is that it doesn't give any named examples of shows for either category, so I'm left wondering at what point a cartoon stops "keeping it real" an becomes "sickeningly sweet".

(and doesn't dealing with death and showing that life isn't fair kind of constitute promoting positive values?)The topic was based on a recent incident. I had to entertain a five year old so I put on one of my favorite movies, Road to El Dorado. The mother walks in during the scene where the high priest is attempting a human sacrifice and complains that the movie is too intense for her daughter. Now this movie is rated PG and as far as I can remember had no actual deaths but it was too "intense" for her kid.

Anyway, I'm guessing she only lets her daughter watch stuff like Dora the Explorer etc.

If you want examples, then use Dora for one end of the spectrum and "Road to El Dorado" at the other.

[zoombie]

Maczero am I right with the list I made in my previous post? Is that what you meant?

[maczero]

Maczero am I right with the list I made in my previous post? Is that what you meant?Perfecto!

[Aldrius]

I don't think you need to shelter kids from some things... kids get scared, but they're hardly scarred for life. Now, if you let a kid watch something EXTREMELY gory and violent that's one thing. THAT can be damaging to a kids' psychosis. Seeing someone get hacked to death.

But stuff like Mufasa falling to his death, or Ursula telling Ariel to seduce the prince... that either I think, is going to go over the kids heads, or it... well I dunno what to say about the Mufasa thing... but I mean, death happens right? They're pretty abstract about the fact that he's dead for one thing.

[Baltofan]

Keep it positive, and let the kids watch Shrek!

[aalong64]

The options are "sickeningly sweet" vs. "keeping it real"? That seems as if you want people to feel dumb for picking the first one... In which case the poll is kind of pointless

I think there ought to be some sort of middle-ground option (which I suspect would be the most popular), as in a show that doesn't go out of its way to portray hard, serious stuff like death or drug abuse every episode, but at the same time doesn't sugarcoat everything like the Care Bears, etc. You know, the way most kids' shows are. Although if we're talking about a baby or a toddler, I honestly think I might lean more towards the first one. When I was little, I liked to see fun stuff, and I wasn't too concerned about whether the show was 'keeping it real'.

[Kury Wagner]

I see nothing wrong with the poll... how else would you title shows that hide reality?

I don't believe in censoring children. Sheltering kids does them more harm than good. I dislike the argument that they're too young to understand or whatever. a.) That does not apply to all children. b.) As a parent, it is your job to teach them how to understand situations.

With that said, not everyone agrees with my viewpoint. In fact, many people disagree. So I believe there should be an equal amount of programming to fit both styles of parenting. There is nothing wrong with wanting to shelter your child on subjects a bit more 'real', and it is a choice that only the parent can make. I respect that completely. But I wouldn't want to just have those types of programs on television.

[zoombie]

Kergy Wagner I agree with you. Don't go over the edge with blood lust stuff, nor stuff that sugercoat life. But it depends personality of the kids, some can't take more realstic stuff as oppose to others. Don't forse feed them to much realism if they can't handle it, or else you might mis them up. Same can be said the other way around.

Let me give the kiddies a little life leason, a common theme in what we classifing "sickeningly sweet" shows, is to be altra nice, never break the rules, saying please and thank you, etc., which makes you a naive person.

That is all well and good, but if kids only learn values for those that types of shows, they will be very naive and that is not healthy when they get older, people will walk all over them. You should have a little bit of a rough edge, if you grow up only learning on the values of stuff like Stawbeey Shortcakes or the Care Bears, people will walk all over you, and even worse depending on where you live, be the prime target for muggers.

Point is, you have to balence things. Nothing wrong with learning wholesome values, but you have to learn the world ain't wholesome.

When I was a young kid, a real young kid 3 or 5 years old, I watch shows like Miami Vice and Hill Street Blues, and I wasn't freaked out by the violence, and I turned out just fine.

[GregX]

Depends. Personally, I don't think kids should be shielded from reality. But it depends on the intensity. I would show a kid "Gargoyles". But, I wouldn't show them "Berserk"

[Silverstar]

I agree. The perfect kids' show shouldn't be just "Life's all lollipops and lickety-doos", nor should it be "The world is a cold, hard place to live in and then you die", but rather a medium between the 2 of them.

Let's give the young'uns some credit, shall we? They don't need to be talked down to. 'Sickeningly sweet' shows portray an unrealistic view of the world (aside from just not being very entertaining), and exposure to that and nothing else will turn your children into goody-two-shoed little wimps who will get walked all over as soon as they go out into the real world. But little kids don't need to 'keep it real' either; they should have some kind of positive reinforcement. A show that 'keeps it real', i.e., showing that the world is full of crime and pollution and corruption and evil and badness is just going to turn them into angry, bitter, depressed Goths. Ideally, a good show would combine elements of both: it would show that everything is not all sunshine and cotton candy, but at the same time, show them that it's not a bad thing to have moral values, strength of opinion and rugged individuality. Show them the harshness of life (crime, bullies, pollution, etc.), but also show them that it's not all bad and that there things you can do about it (the alternative to crime is justice, safety and prevention, bullies exist, but show them as the sad, pathetic individuals they are and don't glorify them by having them never receive any sort of punishment for their misdeeds like they do on so many animated shows unfortunately, and show the consequences of abusing the environment.)

But first and foremost, a show should be entertaining. Don't make it too preachy either way.

[J'onn J'onzz]

I think it's stupid that the Road to El Dorado would offend some parent. I mean, come on, it's a PG movie being shown to a 5 year old kid.

I don't see a problem with the poll either. I mean, it's basically "should you let your child think that everyone lives forever, everyone is nice, every day is an educational journey, and everything is possible if you put your mind to it?" vs "should you let your child know that in real life people die and the good guys don't always win?"

It's the difference between a kid watching Dora the Explorer and a kid watching Naruto. It's extremely-PC substanceless cartoon vs plot driven cartoon. I say if the kid is old enough to speak coherently, let him/her watch realistic things.

[Dr.Pepper]

Maybe a blend between the two would be perfect, where there are conflicts but they end with happy endings.

[Silverstar]

Maybe a blend between the two would be perfect, where there are conflicts but they end with happy endings.

My feelings exactly. That was the what I was trying to say, minus my trademark long-windedness. ;)

[zoombie]

I agree. The perfect kids' show shouldn't be just "Life's all lollipops and lickety-doos", nor should it be "The world is a cold, hard place to live in and then you die", but rather a medium between the 2 of them.

Let's give the young'uns some credit, shall we? They don't need to be talked down to. 'Sickeningly sweet' shows portray an unrealistic view of the world (aside from just not being very entertaining), and exposure to that and nothing else will turn your children into goody-two-shoed little wimps who will get walked all over as soon as they go out into the real world. But little kids don't need to 'keep it real' either; they should have some kind of positive reinforcement. A show that 'keeps it real', i.e., showing that the world is full of crime and pollution and corruption and evil and badness is just going to turn them into angry, bitter, depressed Goths. Ideally, a good show would combine elements of both: it would show that everything is not all sunshine and cotton candy, but at the same time, show them that it's not a bad thing to have moral values, strength of opinion and rugged individuality. Show them the harshness of life (crime, bullies, pollution, etc.), but also show them that it's not all bad and that there things you can do about it (the alternative to crime is justice, safety and prevention, bullies exist, but show them as the sad, pathetic individuals they are and don't glorify them by having them never receive any sort of punishment for their misdeeds like they do on so many animated shows unfortunately, and show the consequences of abusing the environment.)

But first and foremost, a show should be entertaining. Don't make it too preachy either way.

I agree with you silverstar, we have agreed on a lot of stuff lately, but that is another story. Anyway I agree with what you say about balence of the two.

Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with showing kids "sickeningly sweet" shows, as long it is not the only thing you allow them to watch.

I think people can be over empatise kids learning from TV, Television is not a teacher, parents and teachers are the one's who should be responsible for children's upbringing.

Shows can have happy endings, with some sacrifise in which things happily but not perfect. There is a difference between happy ending and perfect nothing is wrong ending. I like those happy endings with sacrifise.

I hate to pimp my favoite show, but I think the perfect show you speak of, is Avatar: The Last Airbender, the theme is balence for goodness sakes. Though I wouldn't let them watch "The Guru" or "Crossroads Of Destiny" or the last minute or two of "The Earth King" till season 3 starts, or else they might think that is how it ends, when it infact the story is still in progress. Unless they are smart to understand the story is not over yet. The show though it is a fantasy world, teaches real values, represents a realstic world, yet shows how possitve the world can be as well.

[aalong64]

Just so clarify, I didn't mean to say that kids' shows should patronize kids and pretend that people don't die, everyone is always happy, etc.

I just meant that from my experience, little kids don't like watching all the heavy 'gloom and doom' stuff as much. They do like smart, mature shows, but that's completely different.

[judyindisguise]

This doesn't strike me as the most balanced poll I've seen in my life.

Second. Worst. Poll. Ever.

[Rasputin]

I'd actually say being limited to sickeningly sweet stuff would actually turn people into bitter, depressed goths later in childhood as reality slams into the rosy picture their parents have built up and lead them to 'revolt' in their own adorably childish fashion. I've no idea what exposure to dark, depressing stuff would do to a kid, but I'll go with the obvious route and say a balanced entertainment regimen makes for balanced individuals.


Second. Worst. Poll. Ever.

Now you got me curious. What's the worst?

[zoombie]

I was skeptical of there being that many shelting parents, who really overprotective of what their kids watch. I was talking about this to my cousin, and he let me to this review on Amazon.com for a movie that designed for a very young audience. Though he or she said was 3 and half years old, that is very young. I might give this parent the benefit of the doubt, but still.

To Dark A Movie For Preschoolers

My son, who is 3 1/2, actually likes this film, even though it really scares him. He still asks for the movie, but I don't really want him to see it again. I don't like the emphasis on "Evil Spirits" and spells. I don't feel this film is appropriate for young children. It is so unnecessary to make a movie like this for little ones. My 3-year-old already has enough fears, and doesn't need to have anything else added to it.

What animated movie could this person to be referring to, take a guess. What could be so dark and scary? Was is Gargoyles? Was it Avatar: The Last Airbender? Was it TMNT? Was it Batman: The Animated Series?

No it was the Care Bears Movie. That movie was so scary. It gave Wes Craven a run for his money. LOL (I feel like I am Jon Stewart) Serious I saw that movie when I was about the age of the kid mentioned in this review, and it did not scare me, it didn't scare any of the other kids that saw it with me.

I am glad I am not a kid being raised in this time period, for example they are trying to get rid of dodge ball in school, these over protective parents are taking the fun out of being a kid. Those of you born in the 80's, raised in the 80's and 90's, we might be the last generation to be allowed to have all the fun kids should be allowed to have. Though 9 / 11 makes it necessary for some things to change.

[danreyes1]

I hate realism. That's why I still watch cartoons at the age of 22.

[Antiyonder]

I was skeptical of there being that many shelting parents, who really overprotective of what their kids watch. I was talking about this to my cousin, and he let me to this review on Amazon.com for a movie that designed for a very young audience. Though he or she said was 3 and half years old, that is very young. I might give this parent the benefit of the doubt, but still.

To Dark A Movie For Preschoolers

My son, who is 3 1/2, actually likes this film, even though it really scares him. He still asks for the movie, but I don't really want him to see it again. I don't like the emphasis on "Evil Spirits" and spells. I don't feel this film is appropriate for young children. It is so unnecessary to make a movie like this for little ones. My 3-year-old already has enough fears, and doesn't need to have anything else added to it.

For all the parent in question knows, it's probably the fun kind of scaring. If the kid was scarred for life, he probably wouldn't want to even hear about the movie or talk about it.


What animated movie could this person to be referring to, take a guess. What could be so dark and scary? Was is Gargoyles? Was it Avatar: The Last Airbender? Was it TMNT? Was it Batman: The Animated Series?

No it was the Care Bears Movie. That movie was so scary. It gave Wes Craven a run for his money. LOL (I feel like I am Jon Stewart) Serious I saw that movie when I was about the age of the kid mentioned in this review, and it did not scare me, it didn't scare any of the other kids that saw it with me.

There's also Disney's editing of their 90s toons as well as the Fox Kids which I find to be an overkill of censoring. Though if a parent can find something to complain about in a Care Bear movie, I suppose Ducktales would be considered too violent (Big example would be Scrooge aiming a gun on Fenton).

Though, like Greg X says, I believe a kid could handle Gargoyles. It's no Dora The Explorer, but it's no Freddy VS Jason either.