KP creators part company with Disney, season 5 doubtful

[zoombie]

I have some sad news, it appears the creators of Kim Possible Bob Schooley and Mark McCokle have parted company with Disney. And if there is a season 5, it will be under new directions. Most fans think season 5 is doubtful anyway.

And with Kim graduating at the end of the season, I had a feeling this was the last horah for awhile.

http://ronstoppable.proboards89.com/index.cgi?board=vip&action=display&thread=1180283488

[Conan-san]

Hope you enjoy your damn YinYangYo, FOR IT IS YOUR UNAVOIDABLE FUTURE <KEFKA LAUGHTER>

[EddieVF]

Well, at least, all KP fans must ''fight'' for five (season) i really dont wanna end seeing the replacements, an Am Drag is gonna end too, so two of the best shows in DiCh are going through the toilet.


Very Sad News :crying:

[zoombie]

Well, at least, all KP fans must ''fight'' for five (season) i really dont wanna end seeing the replacements, an Am Drag is gonna end too, so two of the best shows in DiCh are going through the toilet.


Very Sad News :crying:

Personally I would go in the other directions, and fight harder for 3rd season of AmDrag. Kim Possible already eneded once and cameback. Asking for it to comeback again, might be to much. AmDrag has only ended once. Besides it only got 52 episodes, and no conclusive series finale. "Hong Kong Longs" was not written as pure series finale, while "So The Drama" and the season 4 finale of Kim Possible both had the fianle type of feel. Granted we don't know what happens at the end of the season 4, but Steve Lotter code name for it is "Series Finale".

I love both shows too, but at least KP has an ending, and more episodes.

[tucsoncoyote]

Personally I would go in the other directions, and fight harder for 3rd season of AmDrag. Kim Possible already eneded once and cameback. Asking for it to comeback again, might be to much. AmDrag has only ended once. Besides it only got 52 episodes, and no conclusive series finale. "Hong Kong Longs" was not written as pure series finale, while "So The Drama" and the season 4 finale of Kim Possible both had the fianle type of feel. Granted we don't know what happens at the end of the season 4, but Steve Lotter code name for it is "Series Finale".

I love both shows too, but at least KP has an ending, and more episodes.

You know there are other options too, and one of them for the KP Fans can be boxed sets of the entire 87 episode series. That's one option that I can see. As for Am Drag, I would say it's not out of the question either. After all there are plenty of options for both KP and Am Drag Fans.. and that is all I can say.

Hope you enjoy your damn YinYangYo, FOR IT IS YOUR UNAVOIDABLE FUTURE <KEFKA LAUGHTER>

Well I figure what might be happening here is that eventually Disney Channel will phase out all animation save for the animated movies (Such as So the Drama, and some of the Pixar Flicks, and in fact that's where I figure Disney Channel is headed.. So where are all the animated Series going? Toon Disney that's where... So already some of the animated talk will be decreased in this forum and soon if Disney had it's way you can expect animation to be replaced by Live action all the way around (Heck why is it that Power Rangers on Jetix? It's because I have a feeling Disney wants to go Live action rather then it's traditional way, which is Animation.. So don't be surprised if one of my predictions for 2004 come true.. and in 5 years we might not even have this forum.



:coyote:

[Pomegranate]

Woohoo:D ! I was so damn tired of Kim Possible getting more hype on Toon Disney than all of the classics combined. I hope Toei also parts company with Disney sometime in the very near future.

[Mugen]

Woohoo:D ! I was so damn tired of Kim Possible getting more hype on Toon Disney than all of the classics combined. I hope Toei also parts company with Disney sometime in the very near future.

Once again you prove my point. You mention Toei and Disney in almost every single post. This topic has nothing to do with Toei and yet, somehow, you manage to do that.

[Dee]

Woohoo:D ! I was so damn tired of Kim Possible getting more hype on Toon Disney than all of the classics combined. I hope Toei also parts company with Disney sometime in the very near future.

Please keep the discussion to the topic-- this pertains to Kim Possible

[zoombie]

Could they continue without Bob and Mark, do they have other writers that have been on the show a long time, and know how Bob and Mark think, and could continue?

If they continue the series, the people that replace Bob and Mark has to be in house to the KP staff, if Disney brought in an outsider and tell them "This show is called Kim Possible, run the show." I doubt Disney would go through so much for a show that has 87 episodes in the can.

[Dee]

Could they continue without Bob and Mark, do they have other writers that have been on the show a long time, and know how Bob and Mark think, and could continue?

If they continue the series, the people that replace Bob and Mark has to be in house to the KP staff, if Disney brought in an outsider and tell them "This show is called Kim Possible, run the show." I doubt Disney would go through so much for a show that has 87 episodes in the can.


Seeing as how it was cancelled before, I would expect it would be just as easy for them to call it the end. At least for the sake of the show, it got an ending and wasn't burned out.

[creativerealms]

Hope you enjoy your damn YinYangYo, FOR IT IS YOUR UNAVOIDABLE FUTURE <KEFKA LAUGHTER>

Well it's not as bad of a show as some people treat it as so thats not that bad.

[Rolling Cloud]

NUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!

Disney, you suck for this! Bob Schooley and Mark McCokle.. get your butts back in Disney.

[zoombie]

Seeing as how it was cancelled before, I would expect it would be just as easy for them to call it the end. At least for the sake of the show, it got an ending and wasn't burned out.

Another prospective is, fans of Gargoyles remember what a mess that show was without its creator Gary Weisman. Who is to say that without Bob and Mark's guidence, no matter how talented the new show runners are, even if they were KP writers form the beginning, the samething could happen to the quality of KP.

From what I heard, it appears Bob and Mark wanted to presure other projects, there was no fallout or creative difference with Disney. It was a civil departure. And in this case, you shouldn't be mad at Disney, if you should be mad at anybody, be mad at Bob and Mark. Which I am not, it is not fair to force them to do more episodes if there heart isn't in it. The quality wouldn't be good anyway if they were milking it.

[Pomegranate]

Once again you prove my point. You mention Toei and Disney in almost every single post. This topic has nothing to do with Toei and yet, somehow, you manage to do that.

Almost every post:confused: ? I think I only mention both companies in the very same sentence in only about 35 posts.

Please keep the discussion to the topic-- this pertains to Kim Possible

Oh, sorry about that! I actually thought I was on topic!:sweat:

[tucsoncoyote]

NUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!

Disney, you suck for this! Bob Schooley and Mark McCokle.. get your butts back in Disney.

It wasn't their (Bob and Mark's) doing or choice there cloud, in fact who asked them to leave? The Disney Execs.. No joke.. (Read the entire 13 page thread, and you see what happened..

But that's the truth..the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Another prospective is, fans of Gargoyles remember what a mess that show was without its creator Gary Weisman. Who is to say that without Bob and Mark's guidence, no matter how talented the new show runners are, even if they were KP writers form the beginning, the samething could happen to the quality of KP.

From what I heard, it appears Bob and Mark wanted to presure other projects, there was no fallout or creative difference with Disney. It was a civil departure. And in this case, you shouldn't be mad at Disney, if you should be mad at anybody, be mad at Bob and Mark. Which I am not, it is not fair to force them to do more episodes if there heart isn't in it. The quality wouldn't be good anyway if they were milking it.

And what Zoombie says is also true.. after all Bob and Mark do have work lined up for them, and that's okay too. So i'm not disappointed. Not in the least.. Also I think you are right, if Disney did go ahead with a Season 5, and didn't use Bob and Mark, well it might end up like Gargoyles: The Goliath Chronicles.. And I think a lot of fans don't want that to happen. At least that's my Gut feeling.

:coyote:

[zoombie]

It wasn't their (Bob and Mark's) doing or choice there cloud, in fact who asked them to leave? The Disney Execs.. No joke.. (Read the entire 13 page thread, and you see what happened..

But that's the truth..the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

:coyote:

Oh my bad, the original poster forgot to put that in the opening post. Than I guess KP is ending. I don't know what Disney is doing with the Disney Channel, they are getting rid of all the good shows.

But it also true that Bob and Mark have other projects. And the way season 4 was written, they did a preemptive strike, given us a clear ending, like StD originally was. I think their attitude was, let's write season 4 as if it is our last season and write the season 4 finale like a series finale, if they order a 5th season, we figure something out.

[tucsoncoyote]

Oh my bad, the original poster forgot to put that in the opening post. Than I guess KP is ending. I don't know what Disney is doing with the Disney Channel, they are getting rid of all the good shows.

Well from what I know in that thread is that some folks are starting to think that Disney Channel will go all live action (Save for some movies), and Toon Disney/Jetix will be all toons.. at least that is the gist I am getting.

:coyote:

[zoombie]

Well from what I know in that thread is that some folks are starting to think that Disney Channel will go all live action (Save for some movies), and Toon Disney/Jetix will be all toons.. at least that is the gist I am getting.

:coyote:

That is a big mistake. Disney Channel is forgetting what brought them to the dance. If it is all Live Action, it will be overexposed, and people will get sick of it. And Disney will come crawling back to their animation department, we need more anmiated shows.

Nickelodeon has had Live Action success, but it has never abadden its Nicktoon department. (they do air Spongebob to much, but that is another story)

[tucsoncoyote]

That is a big mistake. Disney Channel is forgetting what brought them to the dance. If it is all Live Action, it will be overexposed, and people will get sick of it. And Disney will come crawling back to their animation department, we need more anmiated shows.

Nickelodeon has had Live Action success, but it has never abadden its Nicktoon department. (they do air Spongebob to much, but that is another story)

Oh I agree about that zoombie, and in fact Disney was originally Built on animation, and only had a small fraction of Live action shows. After Kim Possible and American Dragon are gone from the Line up, what's left? Emperor's New School and the Replacements, and I hear the latter is soon to end production as well. So then what's left? Not a whole lot as all of this is being shifted over to Toon Disney and most folks don't get That channel. So believe me, it'll be surprising if they keep any animated shows on DC.. and all of it will be on TD, thus they are in a way phasing out a lot of this.. Including everything I just mentioned. And you know why Dishey is doing this? They want folks to subscribe to Toon Disney if they want animation, and Disney Channel if they want live action.. and you know if you are an animated Fan, you know where folks will go.. provided they have the money. And this is something I predicted 3 years ago, that sooner or later Disney Channel will have No animated series whatsoever.. So that just supports my theories on where the animation is going.. Or as I like to say.. Follow the Money Shego.


:coyote:

[zoombie]

Also consider this, if you have a hit animated show, Disney could make a lot more long term profit though its success, as well as merchandise. Cartoon characters are more successful in video games and action figure than live action.

Plus Disney with its hit live action movies and series, only a matter of time, before the actors or at least their parents get big heads, and want some of Disney's profits, as well as raises. Voice over actors and those that make cartoons, they don't ask for much money. Rarely if ever (the Simpsons might be the sole exception) that voice over actors of a series were in stand still in contract negociations, and might walk.

Have fun Disney when your pretty actors get big heads and want some of your profits and more money. It already started, I heard there was some treaten hold outs amoung the High School Musical cast, and some of them held out for raises before they made the sequel.

[tucsoncoyote]

Also consider this, if you have a hit animated show, Disney could make a lot more long term profit though its success, as well as merchandise. Cartoon characters are more successful in video games and action figure than live action.

Plus Disney with its hit live action movies and series, only a matter of time, before the actors or at least their parents get big heads, and want some of Disney's profits, as well as raises. Voice over actors and those that make cartoons, they don't ask for much money. Rarely if ever (the Simpsons might be the sole exception) that voice over actors of a series were in stand still in contract negociations, and might walk.

Have fun Disney when your pretty actors get big heads and want some of your profits and more money. It already started, I heard there was some treaten hold outs amoung the High School Musical cast, and some of them held out for raises before they made the sequel.

Well let's get back to KP here for a moment.. I mean when you look at Toon Disney and Jetix there's really only 1 live action show there, (The Power Rangers Series..) So then Logic Dictates Why Not move it to DC? The answer is they need Saban's backing for the Jetix Block. (though other shows like Pucca and Yin Yang Yo are going to be in the mix, along with Season 5 of Digimon. But as for DC Keeping KP they'll keep her around maybe 1-2 years more then Phase her out to TD.. and not every cable company had TD as a base subscriber feel

So then the only conclusion we can come to is Kim Possible needs to have the entire run of 87 put on a Boxed set like Chip and Dales and Darkwing duck and Gargoyles. But then Disney is more likely to make more money off of KP Boxed sets then anything else.. Same thing For AmDrag..

:coyote:

[Antiyonder]

Plus Disney with its hit live action movies and series, only a matter of time, before the actors or at least their parents get big heads, and want some of Disney's profits, as well as raises. Voice over actors and those that make cartoons, they don't ask for much money. Rarely if ever (the Simpsons might be the sole exception) that voice over actors of a series were in stand still in contract negociations, and might walk.

Now something I wonder on Disney's Animation VS Live Action idea. It's been said that the sitcoms are what really bring in the rating, not Kim Possible or American Dragon. That said, do the cartoons do poorly interms of ratings, or do they do pretty well? I was just saying in another thread how Networks/Companys have the whole Fad equals Good, Merely successful equals crap.

Simply put, are the cartoons on Disney Channel really low in ratings or is it the execs having rediculously high expectations? I go with high expectations. Look at how many successes they've had in animation in the previous decade as opposed to now:

As of today, Kim Possible & Lilo And Stitch The TV Series are the only Disney Cartoons that have made it to and/or went over the 65 episodes that a Disney cartoon is usually. The 90s had as it's hit toons:
Ducktales
Darkwing Duck
Goof Troops
Aladdin
Gargoyles
Timon & Pumbaa (I believe altogether they have about 80 half hours of material.)

And while Chip N Dale Rescue Rangers, Talespin, 101 Dalamations, Disney's Doug, Pepper Ann, Recess and Hercules weren't as big, they were still deemed successful enough to get 65 episodes. Bonkers while not as successful did better than American Dragon in the episode count. Heck, if American Dragon was being done in the 90s they would probably at least made it to the full 65 (Or at least 60).

Yes Disney had some duds in the 90s (Not that they were bad, but not the best):
Marsupalami
Schookums & Meat Funny Cartoon Show
The Little Mermaid
Quack Pack
The Mighty Ducks
Jungle Cubs
The Weekenders

So while Disney didn't always turn out top notch shows a decade ago, their successes outweighed their failures. As I said, as of this decade Kim Possible & Lilo And Stitch The TV Series are the only cartoons to make it to the magic number and beyond while the others (Either Disney Channel Originals/Jetix):
Teacher's Pet- 39
Teamo Supremo- 39 (And there were plans to continue this one)
Brandy And Mr. Whiskers- 39
Dave The Barbarian- 39
The Buzz On Maggie- 39
American Dragon: Jake Long- 52
W.I.T.C.H.- 52
Super Robot Monkey Team Hyper Force Go- 52
Dragon Booster- 52
Buzz Lightyear Of Star Command- 62

Some of those shows might have had low fanfare, others might have been successful. And of course as I've established, Disney like many other companies producing cartoons no longer settle for successful. Nope it has to be the big thing to end all big things (Like Power Rangers was in the early seasons and Pokemon).

Heck, look at Gargoyles, when the show was on syndication, it wasn't the flavor of the month but still a hit nonetheless. I'm convinced that had Disney not risen their expectations and pit it up against Power Rangers, it would have at least gotten another season or two (With the original creative team)and they would at least have the name recognition as G.I.Joe and Ninja Turtles.

[zoombie]

Now something I wonder on Disney's Animation VS Live Action idea. It's been said that the sitcoms are what really bring in the rating, not Kim Possible or American Dragon. That said, do the cartoons do poorly interms of ratings, or do they do pretty well? I was just saying in another thread how Networks/Companys have the whole Fad equals Good, Merely successful equals crap.

Simply put, are the cartoons on Disney Channel really low in ratings or is it the execs having rediculously high expectations?

Well I am not familer on ratings, I know American Dragon and Kim Possible got good ratings. They have a very loyal fan base. Maybe the Live Action show ratings are just better, I don't know. If so, in AmDrag and KP's case, it is not by much.

[Antiyonder]

Well I am not familer on ratings, I know American Dragon and Kim Possible got good ratings. They have a very loyal fan base. Maybe the Live Action show ratings are just better, I don't know. If so, in AmDrag and KP's case, it is not by much.

Does KP and ADJL get the same amount of advertisments as the live action shows do on The Disney Channel (Not counting the commercials on Toon Disney)? If so that's their problem. And even so, we can agree that they get good ratings, but the problem is again that good/mere successes don't matter that much to the Disney Channel. It has to the next big thing, the flavor of the month, the fad.

[Kagetsu]

4 seasons is pretty good, and since I can't see any of Disney or Jetix, I see this as a positive. KP was a great show for character style and animation as well as character personality. I'd be much happier with some DVD's of the shows already made. Them leaving Disney is a chance that CN or Nick or even an independent studio may get some great new show that I can actually see.

[Rolling Cloud]

It wasn't their (Bob and Mark's) doing or choice there cloud, in fact who asked them to leave? The Disney Execs.. No joke.. (Read the entire 13 page thread, and you see what happened..

But that's the truth..the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Oh my bad, the original poster forgot to put that in the opening post. Than I guess KP is ending. I don't know what Disney is doing with the Disney Channel, they are getting rid of all the good shows.

So, it is Disney's fault! :sad:

[Martianinvader]

It's not just about Kim here...these were also the guys behind Darkwing Duck and the Aladdin series. Two very talented guys who knew how to build a proper TV show; and wherever they go next I wish them luck.

[tucsoncoyote]

It's not just about Kim here...these were also the guys behind Darkwing Duck and the Aladdin series. Two very talented guys who knew how to build a proper TV show; and wherever they go next I wish them luck.

And don't forget Buzz Lightyear of Star Command, Martianinvader. Bob and Mark (and Tad Stones) were the idea men behind that one, and Steve Loeter was in fact a director on a few episode that were very funny.

So, it is Disney's fault! :sad:

Well don't blame Disney completely here Cloud, After all it was bound to happen. But there is an Upside to this.. They weren't fired like some of the other folks, and in fact Disney is more then willing to let them come back if they see it fit to.. but as of right now? There's really nothing for Bob and Mark to do, but hey they still are a lot like me, idea men.. and I have a feeling we'll be seeing more of their work in the future.

:coyote:

[zoombie]

It's not just about Kim here...these were also the guys behind Darkwing Duck and the Aladdin series. Two very talented guys who knew how to build a proper TV show; and wherever they go next I wish them luck.

True there are have done a lot for Disney. But Kim Possible is what is or was in production right now, this effect KP directly.

[Rolling Cloud]

Well don't blame Disney completely here Cloud,and in fact Disney is more then willing to let them come back if they see it fit to

that's enough to cheer me up :anime:

[tucsoncoyote]

that's enough to cheer me up :anime:

Well glad to hear.. but then I see one other thing happening and this started today.. and it disturbs me to see this happening..

It seems after Playhouse Disney they'll run maybe 1 or at most 2 animated shows.. the Rest are non existant in the PM.. that is until you get to Midnight (E/P) then it's all Animated.. I mean what is up with this? KP at 12:30 am is okay with me, but every last show from KP To the Replacements, to Buzz Lightyear, to The Little Mermaid, to even Lilo and Stitch are relegate to "the Night Owl watch" It's almost like Disney is telling us their next move with Animation.. and that is that they plan to get rid of it altogether or move it so no one except "Night people" who are up at that time can watch it..

Not a Brilliant Move I feel to win back the folks that love animated shows done by the Compnay IMHO. It's what the late shogunthethird would say, they're re-arranging the deck chairs again.

:coyote:

[DarthGonzo]

So Kim Possible doesnt get renewed and the conspiracy theories begin, huh?

[tucsoncoyote]

So Kim Possible doesnt get renewed and the conspiracy theories begin, huh?

Nope not at all unless you think Disney Channel is going to abandon all animation on it's channel and from the look of the schedule, it could still happen, and we could see all the animation move over to Toon Disney/Jetix. And the only conspiracy there would be just so the company can force you to go to your cable company to purchase Toon Disney/Jetix. Or as I said Earlier.. Follow the money.. After all isn't that what business is all about today Darth? Making Money?

:coyote:

[Antiyonder]

After all isn't that what business is all about today Darth? Making Money?

:coyote:

No problem with that. The problem is today that networks lack patience, and resorts to cutting corners.

By lack of patience I mean, they expect a show to be a hit overnight. Or if the ratings go down a tad, they panic and call it quits.

Cutting corners, they obviously don't give their animated shows a fair amount of advertising. Again sometimes spending money helps you to make money.

And I believe my first post in the thread proves my point.

[tucsoncoyote]

No problem with that. The problem is today that networks lack patience, and resorts to cutting corners.

By lack of patience I mean, they expect a show to be a hit overnight. Or if the ratings go down a tad, they panic and call it quits.

Cutting corners, they obivously don't give their animated shows a fair amount of advertising. Again sometimes spending money helps you to make money.

And I believe my first post in the thread proves my point.

And i agree with that post.. You know it's funny. that Disney is literally taking one channel and turning it into All toons, and having the Cable companies charging the proverbial Arm and leg, while turning the other into all Live action that people get bored of quickly.. so then what happens when no one can afford one Channel (Toon Disney where KP Is going) and The other channel (Dinsey Channel) is full of boring live action Material? I see this as a Lose-lose proposition and not a good one.. Unless Disney Decides to make Toon Disney Free and then Charge extra for Disney Channel..

Like I said, Re-arranging the deck Chairs..(If Shogunthethird was alive here today, I bet he would agree with both of us.)

:coyote:

[Antiyonder]

And i agree with that post.. You know it's funny. that Disney is literally taking one channel and turning it into All toons, and having the Cable companies charging the proverbial Arm and leg, while turning the other into all Live action that people get bored of quickly.. so then what happens when no one can afford one Channel (Toon Disney where KP Is going) and The other channel (Dinsey Channel) is full of boring live action Material?

Wouldn't be too sure on that. I mean as many have said, Hanna Montana, Cory In The House and The Suite Life seem to outrate American Dragon, Kim Possible and pretty much other cartoons. But again that I believe is due to the Live Action shows getting more advertisement. What's really pathetic is it seems like Disney is trying to compete with themselves, like they're trying to make sure that the sitcoms are more successful than the cartoons.

With American Dragon for instance, sure it's not the bread and butter for the network, but putting reruns on the Disney Channel on at midnight is like throwing cash in the trash.

[tucsoncoyote]

Wouldn't be too sure on that. I mean as many have said, Hanna Montana, Cory In The House and The Suite Life seem to outrate American Dragon, Kim Possible and pretty much other cartoons. But again that I believe is due to the Live Action shows getting more advertisement. What's really pathetic is it seems like Disney is trying to compete with themselves, like they're trying to make sure that the sitcoms are more successful than the cartoons.

With American Dragon for instance, sure it's not the bread and butter for the network, but putting reruns on the Disney Channel on at midnight is like throwing cash in the trash.

Yep that's exactly it.. Moving these over to Toon Disney wouldn't benefit animation fans of Disney either because they would have to pay for it (Including All the animated stuff right now, which I am guessing will happen eventually. I mean for me Paying an extra 20 bucks a month just to get this channel means that is 20 less dollars I could use to get things I need. But then why put everything that is animated on Late at night? Are they trying to Compete with Cartoon Network's Adult Swim for viewers? Hardly. I think Disney is sending a big signal to the viewers out there, and KP is the cornerstone of this issue. That they want to remove animation for their "so Called Free" Disney channel and put it on the more "Prime Family Package that costs you cash from your pocket" Toon Disney Jetix"

So in a way that is correct.. It's throwing cash in the trash.. and if they don't do boxed sets for the fans? More money wasted I feel. But hey if they want to relegate it to the Toon Disney Jetix section, then all they are doing is what was best described in Ron Millionaire. If you have to ask how much it costs, you can't afford it. and most folks can't afford Toon Disney Jetix.

:coyote:

[SkullRing]

You know there are other options too, and one of them for the KP Fans can be boxed sets of the entire 87 episode series. That's one option that I can see. As for Am Drag, I would say it's not out of the question either. After all there are plenty of options for both KP and Am Drag Fans.. and that is all I can say.



Well I figure what might be happening here is that eventually Disney Channel will phase out all animation save for the animated movies (Such as So the Drama, and some of the Pixar Flicks, and in fact that's where I figure Disney Channel is headed.. So where are all the animated Series going? Toon Disney that's where... So already some of the animated talk will be decreased in this forum and soon if Disney had it's way you can expect animation to be replaced by Live action all the way around (Heck why is it that Power Rangers on Jetix? It's because I have a feeling Disney wants to go Live action rather then it's traditional way, which is Animation.. So don't be surprised if one of my predictions for 2004 come true.. and in 5 years we might not even have this forum.



:coyote:

(Oh Bother!)
I HATE ALL LIVE ACTION SLIME THAT SPEWS FROM THE DISNEY CHANNEL CESSPOOL!

[Martianinvader]

Addition to previous post: they also made the TV show based on Hercules.

Skull, I'd edit that fast before this board's assigned mod comes around.

[elvisjj]

Greeting all you KP fans out there. This is sad, but not unexpected at all. Seeing we're fighting for something we want and the way it looks Disney doesn't want that fight too continue. Please check out http://www.tv.com/kim-possible/show/8258/summary.html (TV.com) and then check out what bbqsauce 13 has written "Creators Part ways with Disney" and then check out the topics "The Official fight for Five" Thread and check out bbqsauce 13 has to say about this.

If what bbqsauce 13 is saying is true and the creators where just booted by Disney, which again won't surprise me and shouldn't surprise any of you out there either. Disney isn't the Disney that Walt Disney created, envisioned and nurtured. Disney is now more a darker version of itself, runned rapid by executives that have no regard for Walt Disney's vision and even a greater lack of care for Disney fans worldwide, case in point with Kim Possible sums it all up. Here's a show that so loved worldwide and before I joined up here I never would have believed that a show could be this loved and this popular worldwide. The fanfiction out there is living proof of it. Yet Disney couldn't care less about how we as fans of Kim Possible feel and that we want the show to continue. They never wanted a fourth season of Kim Possible and that's so obvious with the scheduling. Kim Possible is way good enough for PRIME TIME viewing, yet where did Disney put the show. That could be coincidence, but come on now would you truly believe that? The way I feel Disney Executives look at all of us viewers and all of us Kim Possible fans out there as being nothing more then mindless viewers who'll complain at first about losing our favorite show and then will all just go on and accept it and put Kim Possible and the show to rest. In short they'll (being Disney) get what they want (what they most likely wanted back in Season 3) and that is they would have successfully put Kim Possible to rest, sealing the final nail in Kim Possible's coffin.

Now with all that said where do we go from here? First of all I would love to hear from the creators and hear their side of the story. It would be great if they didn't leave all us fans out there in the dark. Let's hope they respond to someone so we can get the real inside story of what happened. Cause I just can't see the creators just up and abandoning us like that, when we're all fighting to save the show we love so much. I have a belief that bbqsauce 13 might be right about the creators being forced out and if that is true it's all the more REASON TO CONTINUE ON THE FIGHT.

I myself won't stop the fight for season five, it might be a waste of time and effort on my part. But when I believe in a cause as wholeheartedly as I do with Kim Possible and this show, I'll see it through. Or as what Kim likes to see so much is when her bestfriend/boyfriend Ron Steps up. Well I'm stepping up for Kim Possible. And if the creators Bob, Mark and Steve were forced out by Disney. They'll at least appreciate the fact on just how much this show means too us. That we're willing to fight to the bitter end. All of you KP fans out there will have to make your own decision on whether to continue to fight or give up. BUT REMEMBER ONE THING and this is the most IMPORTANT ONE of all. DISNEY WANTS YOU TO QUIT FIGHTING! nuff said.

[Freedom Fighter]

Sadly, the constant time changes of the premieres and bad times for encores, at least given my schedule, means I believe I've missed about half of whatever of Season 4 has already aired. So I hope you'll forgive me not caring as much for KP recently as I used to. (Not to mention almost all the ones I did see did not inspire the traditional KP fun I've come to love.)

That being said, it's kinda sad that they've 'let go' of Bob and Mark, but it apparently it has mostly to do with Disney Channel's current direction. But as mentioned by many, Bob and Mark are very, VERY talented, and hopefully it won't be long before they find work again. Honestly, if there were more people in the industry like those two, maybe American TV animation would get a more respectable reputation.

[I.R Joey]

It's sad of course to see the two guys go, but I'm sure they'll find work elsewhere.

Like season 4, another season of KP be alright but it isn't really a tragic thing if we don't get it.

[tucsoncoyote]

(Oh Bother!)
I HATE ALL LIVE ACTION SLIME THAT SPEWS FROM THE DISNEY CHANNEL CESSPOOL!

Well I know how you feel Skull Ring, but if you really hate Disney's Live Action Shows, I'm going to show you Tomorrow's Schedule (or rather today's for the East coast once 6 am starts but I will Bold Live Action Shows, Italicize Playhouse Disney Shows, and Underline Animated Series.. and this is the proof anyone needs but if they go and check out disneychannel.com they will see what i am getitng at

Tuesday-Friday will look like this in a way: (Monday at 4 and 4:30 will have KP at least)

6:00AM Doodlebops
6:30AM This is Daniel Cook
7:00AM The Wiggles
7:25AM This is Emily Yeung
7:30AM HigglyTown Heroes
7:55AM David Zane's House Party
8:00AM Little Einsteins
8:30AM Mickey Mouse Clubhouse
8:55AM Lou and Lou safety Patrol
9:00AM Handy Manny
9:30AM Charlie and Lola
10:00AM The Suite Life of Zack and Cody
10:30AM That's So Raven
11:00AM Hannah Montana
11:30AM Boy Meets World
12:00(Noon) Phil of the Future
12:30PM Cory in the House
1:00PM *Disney Movie from the Previous Night*
2:30PM Boy Meets World
3:00PM The Suite Life of Zack and Cody
3:30PM The Suite Life of Zack and Cody
4:00PM Boy Meets World
4:30PM Boy Meets World
5:00PM Phil of the Future
5:30PM Phil of the Future
6:00PM That's So Raven
6:30PM That's So Raven
7:00PM Hannah Montana
7:30PM The Suite Life of Zack and Cody
8:00 *Disney Movie*
10:00PM That's So Raven
10:30PM Life with Derek
11:00PM The Suite Life of Zack and Cody
11:30PM Hannah Montana
12:00AM (Midnight) The Replacements
12:30AM Kim Possible
1:00AM The Emperor's New School
1:30AM American Dragon: Jake Long
2:00AM Buzz Lightyear of Star Command
2:30AM Timon and Pumba
3:00AM The Proud Family
3:30AM Brandy and Mr. Whiskers
4:00AM The Buzz on Maggie
4:30AM The Little Mermaid
5:00AM Lilo and Stitch
5:30AM Lilo and Stitch

See a pattern here? This is just Monday -Friday and in fact every show you see from 10AM to Midnight except for the Disney Movies,14 hours in all, well are Live action. Then after midnight the show Genre Switches to Animated Series, and if you look only 6 hours and then Playhouse Disney shrinks to only 4 hours a day. And you know what? This is sort of like Vault Disney (Which was late night Disney Animated and Live action shows Up until 2001 when it was discontinued).

But the point is this. 14 hours of Live action shows? 6 hours of Animated Series, and the remaining 4 for The pre-schoolers with Playhouse Disney? I mean this is where things go nuts here with the scheduling, Like some one said, "Let's Group Live action in one zone, Animated late at night and early morning for the tykes" (Column A, then B, then C).

I mean why move all the Animated Series to the same time period as say Cartoon Network's Adult Swim? Answer: so they can prove that Animated Shows Like Kim Possible and American Dragon) aren't worth it.. Like Antiyonder said, they're throwing cash out with the trash. and then they'll have an excuse to remove all the animated series to Toon Disney/Jetix (Which will then be totally animated save for the Power Ranger Blocks which are live action Anyway). So in a way Disney Channel becomes a Channel of Live action Shows, and Toon Disney/Jetix becomes fully Animated.

But like Antiyonder said, why are they throwing the cash out with the trash? The answer again is simple. Toon Disney/Jetix is in fact usually a Pay Channel which you usually have to pay more for (Unless you are on Satellite in which case sometimes it's included in the package of a more expensive deal.)

The Bottom Line here? Disney is wanting to make Disney Channel (DC) all Live action, Make Toon Disney/Jetix All or nearly all Animated, and have folks pay through the nose if they want to see any of the typical animation.

So in a way, Antiyonder has proven his point.. they are throwing the trash out with the cash, and in fact that's where Disney plans to lose their shirt in one area.. But then think about this.. You can go to Itunes and Download most Disney Epsidoes, and Sprint has Sealed a Deal with Disney dealing with KP On their Video cellphones.. Trade off one for the other.

But it's this type of set up that often spells disaster for companies that lump things together. I mean why is it that Nickelodeon is doing better then Disney Answer? They spread things out, so it won't be too hard and everyone wins. In This case Like I pointed out it's a lose-lose-lose sitch all the way around, unless you are lucky to have Toon Disney/Jetix on your Cable Package.

The final Words: Like I stated from the Kim Possible Episode Ron Millionaire, by Jimmy Ding, the Bling Bling King: If you have to ask How much it will cost to get Toon Disney? You can't afford it..

It's sad of course to see the two guys go, but I'm sure they'll find work elsewhere.

Like season 4, another season of KP be alright but it isn't really a tragic thing if we don't get it.

Oh don't worry I.R. They probably can find plenty of work, after all look at their resume with Disney.. Aladdin,Hercules, Buzz Lightyear, Kim Possible. Three winners in my book, and when Steve Loeter leaves Disney (Which Might be after AmDrag Winds up in August, but then he might have new work coming in) well that will just diminish the light of Disney animation a little more..

Pretty prophetic words from a guy who is blind and yet understands the nuances of how animated / Entertainment companies work. After all the bottom line here is cash again.. and believe me Disney is milking the cash cow for all it's worth.

:coyote:

[Conan-san]

Well it's not as bad of a show as some people treat it as so thats not that bad. What Crap -5 Equip are you using?

[Antiyonder]

If what bbqsauce 13 is saying is true and the creators where just booted by Disney, which again won't surprise me and shouldn't surprise any of you out there either. Disney isn't the Disney that Walt Disney created, envisioned and nurtured. Disney is now more a darker version of itself, runned rapid by executives that have no regard for Walt Disney's vision and even a greater lack of care for Disney fans worldwide,

Now quite a bit of times, posters on toon zone state how Disney's decision to cater to the tweens/preschool demograph has been more profitable and successul than say the entire family. But can it be proven? I mean this decade Disney had to close down some animation studios and cut down maintainance on their rides for one reason, cutting costs. Does that sound like a company who's booming in success? I don't recall anything like that happening in the 90s, when they targeted all ages with their shows.

[tucsoncoyote]

Now quite a bit of times, posters on toon zone state how Disney's decision to cater to the tweens/preschool demograph has been more profitable and successul than say the entire family. But can it be proven? I mean this decade Disney had to close down some animation studios and cut down maintainance on their rides for one reason, cutting costs. Does that sound like a company who's booming in success? I don't recall anything like that happening in the 90s, when they targeted all ages with their shows.

Very good noticing there Antiyonder. Back before 1994, they catered to Everyone. Now it's just a Select few, and like Drakken Said, The Senior Population is growing by 10% a year, yet in that same aspect the Preschooler and Teen and Tween groups are shrinking by the same amount. So what happens when you have a Minimum of Pre-schoolers and Teens and Tweens to view these shows? It's the proverbial Chicken and Egg Scenario.. Will Disney Adapt and revert back to the 1990's situation? or will the cater to an Ever Narrowing Demographic that will soon slowly evaporate to such a small number they will lose that demographic all together.

Getting back on Topic, Take a Look at Kim Possible. Here's a show that had a Wide Demographic, from 6 to 60, and in fact a lot of families watched. But as times have progressed Disney now caters to just the 2-14 group.. a very narrow demographic.. (Sure go to Cynthia Turner's Cynopsis Kids Page on Friday and Look at the ratings, Disney is catering to those groups but what happens when 14 year olds turn 15? You're out of the Demographic, so Long and thanks for all the fish.

But then I'm not crying about KP Leaving.. But rather Disney's Inappropriate way they're handling their animation Legacy. To them it's all bottom dollar and if it doesn't make cash it's trash. (TV Trash Heap anyone?)

Believe me sooner or later like you stated Antiyonder, the fads of the current Crop of Live shows will fade.. and how will Disney Replace those shows? They certainly won't turn back to animation..

And Yes, It's sad that We're seeing what I might call a bit of an End of an Era for TV Cartoon Animation at disney. Will it come back? Maybe if the fans so choose, but Apparently 2-14 year olds, and not the real people who view these shows have the final say. but then you know America, Democracy Rules, and if you aren't in the Majority of the Demographic, You're in the Minority and don't count.

Well them's the breaks kiddies.. wait till you're 15.. then enjoy American Idol.. If it's still around.

Also another Astute point.. Pirates of the Caribbean Dead Man's Chest is Disney's first Billion Dollar (World Wide) block Buster, World's End already has made 200 Million.. The question is.. Where is the Money Going? Any ideas? Cause if it's going into Animation, well Then Pixar should get the Lion's share to do Animated TV Series that will be good in quality. After all Pixar is now developing quite a track record with it's work. So then Why Isn't Pixar having a say in this (I mean Has anyone heard of any replacement animated Series for Disney Channel once KP and American Dragon Leave?) Also The Pirates Live aciton Franchise has now grossed 2 billion dollars over the last 3 movies (World wide) based by boxofficemojo.com.

Sadly, the constant time changes of the premieres and bad times for encores, at least given my schedule, means I believe I've missed about half of whatever of Season 4 has already aired. So I hope you'll forgive me not caring as much for KP recently as I used to. (Not to mention almost all the ones I did see did not inspire the traditional KP fun I've come to love.)

That being said, it's kinda sad that they've 'let go' of Bob and Mark, but it apparently it has mostly to do with Disney Channel's current direction. But as mentioned by many, Bob and Mark are very, VERY talented, and hopefully it won't be long before they find work again. Honestly, if there were more people in the industry like those two, maybe American TV animation would get a more respectable reputation.

and It's funny these guys are respected.. I give them high kudos for what magic they have brought.. But I do have at least one good thing, if Disney ever wanted them back? It's only a phone call away.


:coyote:

[Nygma]

I wonder if the scheduling changes have to do with the DC Games nonsense this summer? If it does then we're lucky.

Sad to see Bob and Mark leaving but I hope they have success in whatever they do.

For those that are sad about KP leaving I know how you feel (Heck I've lost sleep over X-Men Evolution not getting picked up for a 5th season, but thats another story).

Lets be honest 87 episodes is a darn good run, and is nothing to be ashamed of. Especially considering that most shows that reach this point have trouble keeping up the quality of their writing. If nothing else, the writers behind Kim Possible managed to prove everyone wrong when it came to the show coming back and whether they could juggle a relationship between Kim and Ron and still be a fun show. American Dragon managed to find its footing later in its sophomore season. The bashing it gets is still juvenile, but its not as bad as it used to be.

I don't know who's thinking what at Disney corporation, but lets not go on a witch hunt and assume that Disney wants to end Kim Possible and all of animation(if they wanted to do that they would never have ordered a 4th season to begin with). Lets just hope both shows go out on great notes similar to So the Drama (a note that feels satisfactory, but leaves us wanting more).

As far as boxed sets go, I'm not holding my breath. I've been waiting a long time for Spider-Man TAS and X-Men TAS (which are so long ridiculously overdue its not even funny) to come out with boxed sets and so far we've got nothing.:sad: Oh well, maybe they'll surprise me in the future.

[elvisjj]

I've just got some updates regarding my post for the continuing fight for Kim Possible Season five. I've been back at t.v. com and KillerBebe001 has updated that with Kim Possible not yet been renewed, in other words cancelled. The creators, Bob, Mark, and Steve having finished final post-production on the show and with that their jobs have ended. Unless of course we can convince Disney to renew Kim Possible for a fifth season. So for those out there that still care and love Kim Possible the fight for Season five isn't over, if you read my last posting. It's only over, if you give up and decide Kim Possible is not worth fighting for anymore..hey it's always good when Disney Executives get there way and in most cases they do. Cause we just all cave in and give up.

With that said just a quick brief on what I've been reading about Disney cutting back on their animation. I'm sure that's right and I'm sure there going to continue to do it, unless of course diehard fans like us convince them otherwise with constant letters, postcards, asking them to reconsider. Remember the pen even at Disney is mighter then the sword.

[Antiyonder]

Kim Possible ending I agree that it had a long run. Just hoping that some later DC shows will following the same effort and quality. The only saving grace is Boy Meets World rejoining the daily schedule.

Very good noticing there Antiyonder. Back before 1994, they catered to Everyone. Now it's just a Select few, and like Drakken Said, The Senior Population is growing by 10% a year, yet in that same aspect the Preschooler and Teen and Tween groups are shrinking by the same amount. So what happens when you have a Minimum of Pre-schoolers and Teens and Tweens to view these shows? It's the proverbial Chicken and Egg Scenario.. Will Disney Adapt and revert back to the 1990's situation? or will the cater to an Ever Narrowing Demographic that will soon slowly evaporate to such a small number they will lose that demographic all together.

But have they had any financial issues in the 90s akin to earlier this decade? The answer to that question is the only way that could definately prove which decade was in the right direction.

[tucsoncoyote]

Kim Possible ending I agree that it had a long run. Just hoping that some later DC shows will following the same effort and quality. The only saving grace is Boy Meets World rejoining the daily schedule.



But have they had any financial issues in the 90s akin to earlier this decade? The answer to that question is the only way that could definately prove which decade was in the right direction.

Well I think since 1994 we're dealing with the issue of this, and in fact the issue is that the Lion King was the last Successful movie they had (Garnering 300 Million Dollars) but since then? Every movie they had that was Animated (From Atlantis to Tarzan to Treasure Planet) failed.. and it seems that only a couple broke even Pocahontas maybe and Mulan. So then here we have a financial loss.

Also I went back over the 3 PotC movies and each movie cost more then It's Predeccessor (140 million for Black Pearl, 225 million for Dead Man's Chest, and 300 Million for the Current Worlds End. and when you do the simple math there that's 665 million in production costs for a net gross income of 2 billion + dollars for just this franchise alone.

Meanwhile I feel Animation Suffered with flops and in fact during the late 90's it was that Disney made some deals (Like the Doug Fiasco from Nickelodeon), But I think the real winner was Pixar, and after they left in 2003-2004, that's the straw that broke the camel's back. and believe me without Pixar, Disney just gave up on Anmation in general and thus they began to outsource (hence that's why Kim Possible had 3 different Animation Studios doing the show (With Rough Draft of Korea (The Same folks who do the Simpsons, and Futurama) was the best IMHO.

So in a way I think Disney started to just think that Animation wasn't for the entire family and started to think about just specific demographics.. and that's why I feel that's why it's gotten to this point.. They're still living in 2002 when they should be living in 2007. But as for KP? That's the surprise.. it actually brought families back together.. that's what is surprising.. a Great idea that had action Adventure and humor that actually worked.

So in the end, where did Disney lose track I figure between 1997 and 2002. So that's my guess.

:coyote:

[Antiyonder]

So in a way I think Disney started to just think that Animation wasn't for the entire family and started to think about just specific demographics.. and that's why I feel that's why it's gotten to this point.. They're still living in 2002 when they should be living in 2007. But as for KP? That's the surprise.. it actually brought families back together.. that's what is surprising.. a Great idea that had action Adventure and humor that actually worked.

:coyote:

I believe they don't really care what the whole family says about their shows.

Ironically though, the writing that their cartoons have result in more of an appeal to older viewers than their so-called family sitcoms. I mean The Famous Jett Jackson and Even Steven are examples of sitcoms from Disney done right. What's more ironic is even though Disney considers cartoons to be a lot cause on the tween, they try to emulate a cartoonish vibe on their live action shows.

[Lavenderpaw]

I'm sorry to hear this guys but unless they wanted to go into college then I'm afraid it's over.:( I hope at least the creators saw that this might've been coming and have other things lined up for themselves.But at least we should fight to save American Dragon and preserve something decent on DC.I think they really need to get Steve Loter back on board and fight for a season 3,as well as fight for decent timeslots for Amdrag and Kim Possible.

*sigh* Who knows,maybe they'll return the timeslots to better ones after summer.:)

[zoombie]

I'm sorry to hear this guys but unless they wanted to go into college then I'm afraid it's over.:( I hope at least the creators saw that this might've been coming and have other things lined up for themselves.But at least we should fight to save American Dragon and preserve something decent on DC.I think they really need to get Steve Loter back on board and fight for a season 3,as well as fight for decent timeslots for Amdrag and Kim Possible.

*sigh* Who knows,maybe they'll return the timeslots to better ones after summer.:)

I agree I want AmDrag. Though I think show could do a 3rd season and be a good show without Steve Loter, if he was part of the show it would make it better, don't get me wrong. But he left the show to work on KP during season 2, and they had another director direct it, and it was still a good show.

The key people to AmDrag are Matt Negrete and Eddie Guzelian, they have to be part of it. They are to that show what Bob and Mark was to Kim Possible. Though they aren't the creators of the show Jeff Goode is. But Matt and Eddie recreated the show, they are the creators of the AmDrag we know. If they are on board, I am sure the show would be fine.

I have Toon Disney, is Disney wants all his animated shows to premere on Toon Disney, I am all set. But I know there are those that still don't have Toon Disney, but it has more subscribers than Nicktoon TV and Boomerang.

I like watching Kim Possible and American Dragon: Jake Long on Toon Disney better, because it doesn't have those long commercials, and nothing but pimping the Live Action Disney crap.

[TheFZAtUGSOnline]

Since this show might go silent very soon (from what i've and we've heard so far), and i probably might weep after S4 ends (going to miss Bueno Nacho)...
So here's my very first installment of one of my new specials:

The Key of Cancelation
#1 - The Kim Edition


1) Key Points for this show: Action, And Lots of It, Starring a Tart-Eyed Female, A Taco-Obsessed Guy with a (Get This) Naked Mole Rat as A Pet/Tool, and A Genius in Which He Never Shows In Person (Not Counting "Future" Eppy), The Main Baddie: A Former Scientist Who Turned Evil (And Dyed His Skin Blue), and some gal with the ability to turn her hands into green gloves of power...

2) Key Points Reasons for Demise: Two Words: Hannah Montana (Or Live-Action, If You Know What I Mean), Plus The Recent Decline Of Animation On The Former ZOOG Channel, And We Also Have 'Darkwing Creators Bob & Mark fired From The House Of Mouse (Not The Club, In Witch The Cartoon Series By The Same Name Was Set In, Im Refering To Walt Disney Co.).. Which Led To The Start Of KP's "Fight For Five" Fan Riots, In Which It May Go On, Possibly Even After The Show's Demise.

3) Key Points for Demise: The Home Channel Of High School Musical, Hannah, Zac & Cody, Cory, Raven, and, well..other stars... Might Bill The S4 Finalie As The Series Finalie, And With That Done, They Might Need To Kill The Show's Mini-Site, And Then They Just Might Leave The Show On Reruns for 2 Years, Afterwitch, They Move It To The "Retirement Home" of all the other Disney Toons: Toon Disney (A.K.A. The Home Of Woo-Foo Induced Live Action-Included Shows With A Bit Of 'Tude As The JETIX Block)

4) Key Points on Stuff To Be Missed: Well, The Amount Of Action and Comedy in this show, if you want action & comedy after the show's run ends, Go Watch Yin-Yang-Yo! or Mon Colie Knights or Digimon (Pre-Data Squad) or Digimon: Data Squad or BoBoBo-Bo Bo-BoBo or the 4Kids One Piece, Hopefully Seeing that someday, some cartoonists might arise from people who used to watch this show, The Concept of "Pets as Tools" might come again someday...

And Thats My Keys for This Edition.. Now You May Commence Weeping... (Well, At Least Not Yet...)

The Key of Cancelation | (C) 2007 UGRSMedia ltd.


'nuff said, You May Return To Your Normal Lives... (Or Continue Discussing This...)

[Burgundy Ranger]

Here are my reponses to what I picked up on as the main points of this thread:

1) I'm surprised at the shock that there might not be a S5. That's because my read all along during the "Save KP" campaign was that the effort was to being the show back for one -- and only one -- more season. The griping about no S5 takes some of the shine off the success that led to S4.

2) I read Tucson's take about how the new DC schedule marks a step in the ultimate direction of "all live on DC; all animated on TD" and certainly agree. But, for three years, we thought we saw them taking steps in the ultimate direction of "Jetix goes 24/7 on the channel formerly known as Toon Disney." That certainly hasn't happened and the most recent steps have actually been in the OTHER direction -- with more TD hours and fewer for Jetix.

There's one bit of similarity in these new summer schedules -- an apparent emphasis on a certain segment of the lineup in the late mornings and afternoons -- DC's live-action shows and TD's non-Jetix animated. The TD part is brought to light with the new weekend schedule, in which Jetix ends at 9 a.m. (instead of noon), just like it does during the week.

The 9 a.m. cutoff just happens ;) to coincide with the start of the ABC Kids block (3 hours of DC shows plus 1 hour of PR). During those four hours, DC shows 3 hours of Playhouse, one KP ep and one Replacements and TD shows a 2-hour movie, then 1 hour of Aladdin and 1 of Mermaid. That makes it look like they're trying to help ABC Kids ratings but I don't know if that's needed. Why? ABC Kids has already passed Kids WB in most weeks as the top-rated kids block on network TV.

But, back to the live vs. animated -- the one show that throws a wrench in the theory is Power Rangers. Now granted, a move to DC would give PR a boost that could lengthen the franchise by as much as 5-10 years. But I just don't know how PR -- a show that exists primarily to sell toys -- can exist on a non-commercial channel.

Also, PR just doesn't fit in with the rest of DC's live-action genre. There's no other show like it. The closest we get to a morph is when Miley puts on the Hannah wig.

All that boils to this: Just when you think you know where they're going, you find out you don't.

[LeopoldStotch]

Being someone who has watch "Kim Possible" from the beginning, Disney Channel tried promote the show in th 2002-2003 season. They gave Kim a whole summer (2003). The problem is that live action shows seem to have more reward. The top grossing film by Disney is "Dead Man's Chest." The funny part is that Disney percentage of flops for animated films is small, while live action films is large. (Remember "Herbie Fully Loaded")

Disney has produced many home grown talents, who left the company angry...Tab Stone, (especially) Seth McFarlane...Disney has done many great TV shows in animation, which it consciously ignores.

My feelings is that the anger and the people Fighting for five should direct their efforts to another show, "American Dragon: Jake Long." Since Steve Loter came on board the show has become much better, one of the best Disney Shows of all time. Despite the change in animation, the storylines as well as the humor has greatly added to the show's appeal. Sense the fans save Kim least than 2 years ago...why not do the same for Jake? Instead of the Fight for Five...why not the fight for three?

[Ed Liu]

For those seeking harder news in the thread over the Drama, here's the relevant posts I've seen from the creators:

Steve Loter posts first (http://ronstoppable.proboards89.com/index.cgi?board=vip&action=display&thread=1180283488&page=9#1180306786)
Followed by Kurt Weldon (http://ronstoppable.proboards89.com/index.cgi?board=vip&action=display&thread=1180283488&page=9#1180310895) (producer, I believe)
Then one from Bob Schooley (http://ronstoppable.proboards89.com/index.cgi?board=vip&action=display&thread=1180283488&page=12#1180377189)

I kind of wonder what's happening with Liar of Kudzu as well.

Keep an eye on Toon Zone News about this. At the very least, I'll be posting an article on the Daily News ticker by the end of the day.

-- Ed

[Nygma]

I agree with Bob and what he has to say. Its okay to be upset with the show leaving, but lets not put all are time and effort into calling the heads of Disney jackasses just because we're upset. In other words, lets not jump the gun and assume that Disney is out to destroy all of their animation. The sad fact is whether we like it or not, Disney's live action shows do get more ratings then the animated shows, but I agree that it's no reason for animation to get tossed to the side.

As far as the season finale goes, I'm okay with it. But for the love of God Bob, don't let this be like Things Change from Teen Titans.

[Conan-san]

As far as the season finale goes, I'm okay with it. But for the love of God Bob, don't let this be like Things Change from Teen Titans. Oh, you meen the poor attempt at being, "The beast that shouted "AI" at the end of the world"?

Yes, I hope to god that Kim Possible keep away from such an idea.

[Burdette25159]

Since Hong Kong Longs was NOT CONECIVED to be a series finalie, They should TURN IT into a crossover series finalie movie with Kim Possible with the Dark Dragon turning out to be Maleficent from Sleeping Beauty! It's either that or a Japanese company continue the series (The name will be the same except that a Z is added to the end of the title)

[Antiyonder]

Also, PR just doesn't fit in with the rest of DC's live-action genre. There's no other show like it. The closest we get to a morph is when Miley puts on the Hannah wig.
Maybe not exactly like it, but if they were to try, then they could air it with So Weird and The Famous Jett Jackson (which was briefly part of ABC Family's Jetix). Air the premieres on weekends with Eerie Indiana. Spellbinders would work as well (If they still have permission to air it).

Oh, you meen the poor attempt at being, "The beast that shouted "AI" at the end of the world"?

Yes, I hope to god that Kim Possible keep away from such an idea.

Technically, their finale was Trouble In Tokyo. Even then, the series has been continuing in Teen Titans Go (#39 is set after TiT infact). At least until #50 (if they're ending it there).

But I'm pretty sure that Kim Possible will be getting a definate ending.

[Marinite]

What Crap -5 Equip are you using? I think it's called an opinion.

[Lavenderpaw]

Since Hong Kong Longs was NOT CONECIVED to be a series finalie, They should TURN IT into a crossover series finalie movie with Kim Possible with the Dark Dragon turning out to be Maleficent from Sleeping Beauty! It's either that or a Japanese company continue the series (The name will be the same except that a Z is added to the end of the title)

Um...interesting ideas but not likely. :sweat:

[trayguy]

I have thought of doing my own eps of KP and AMDrag as well as other shows . One Day, byt the Grace of GOD i will.:D

[EddieVF]

Why in the name of...of....of....SOMEONE!! are they re-running boy meets world, oh come on, lame story, they could air KP or Amdrag ...

All animation is going to the toilet, Disneys future might become vry dark , vry dark inded :sad:

[Caswin]

Oh, you meen the poor attempt at being, "The beast that shouted "AI" at the end of the world"?Kim: Wait - Bonnie's... alive? :eek:
Rufus: :confused:

Yes. Let's try and avoid that, please. Thankfully, Kim Possible has a better record of finales than Teen Titans ("Changing History" was excellent, as was "Team Impossible", and So the Drama, even if I didn't like various aspects of it, was at least coherent).

[90'sCartoonMan]

It's a sad day indeed. Disney lost some talented guys.

Another prospective is, fans of Gargoyles remember what a mess that show was without its creator Gary Weisman.

Greg Weisman.

Now something I wonder on Disney's Animation VS Live Action idea. It's been said that the sitcoms are what really bring in the rating, not Kim Possible or American Dragon. That said, do the cartoons do poorly interms of ratings, or do they do pretty well? I was just saying in another thread how Networks/Companys have the whole Fad equals Good, Merely successful equals crap.

Simply put, are the cartoons on Disney Channel really low in ratings or is it the execs having rediculously high expectations? I go with high expectations.

I don't get why Disney's cartoons don't get as many episodes today as they did ten years ago. Maybe it is high expectations, but if that's the case, it's a shame because that doesn't give them as much variety in their programming.

As far as boxed sets go, I'm not holding my breath. I've been waiting a long time for Spider-Man TAS and X-Men TAS (which are so long ridiculously overdue its not even funny) to come out with boxed sets and so far we've got nothing.:sad: Oh well, maybe they'll surprise me in the future.

There is always hope for box sets! Or at least that's what I keep telling myself.

[Rolling Cloud]

Oh, you meen the poor attempt at being, "The beast that shouted "Love" at the end of the world"?

Yes, I hope to god that Kim Possible keep away from such an idea.

Yeah, we don't need any "Eva" in KP. Sankyuu

[Antiyonder]

Well I think since 1994 we're dealing with the issue of this, and in fact the issue is that the Lion King was the last Successful movie they had (Garnering 300 Million Dollars) but since then? Every movie they had that was Animated (From Atlantis to Tarzan to Treasure Planet) failed.. and it seems that only a couple broke even Pocahontas maybe and Mulan. So then here we have a financial loss.

What I mean though, was the low income of those movies so bad that they had to close down any studios (animation or otherwise) or lower maintainence on anything. So far that didn't happen until they gave up on the adult viewers in 2003-2004.

I don't get why Disney's cartoons don't get as many episodes today as they did ten years ago. Maybe it is high expectations, but if that's the case, it's a shame because that doesn't give them as much variety in their programming.

Really it's the death combo of low advertisements and high expectations. That and I'm starting to think it really is personal bias they have against their animated properties. Considering that they're either:

A. On late at night on the more common Disney Channel.
B. That it's on during the day on the less common Toon Disney.

Sure the Live Action programs outrate them, but they aren't going to make much money or ratings if the viewers can't come across them at an earlier hour.

I mean posters on the Nick forum say that Teen Nick shows get more ratings than the cartoons, but you don't see Spongebob Squarepants, Fairly Oddparents and Jimmy Neutron on late at night. So while Nick is also guilty to a degree of the high expectations, they still give credit to their cartoons.

[tucsoncoyote]

What I mean though, was the low income of those movies so bad that they had to close down any studios (animation or otherwise) or lower maintainence on anything. So far that didn't happen until they gave up on the adult viewers in 2003-2004.

That's very true, but then they lost their late night edge when they closed down 'Vault Disney' In 2001 because they felt younger viewers wouldn't be interested in the older shows of the 1950's and 1960's like The Mickey Mouse Club or Zorro. To them Adults didn't count in 2001.. and they took their thinking in a new direction by looking at a smaller demographic rather then the entire family.. in short they got rid of the family and now just cater to 2-14 year olds. and if you're 15 or older and you love a show? You're part of the minority.

Really it's the death combo of low advertisements and high expectations. That and I'm starting to think it really is personal bias they have against their animated properties. Considering that they're either:

A. On late at night on the more common Disney Channel.
B. That it's on during the day on the less common Toon Disney.

Sure the Live Action programs outrate them, but they aren't going to make much money or ratings if the viewers can't come across them at an earlier hour.

I mean posters on the Nick forum say that Teen Nick shows get more ratings than the cartoons, but you don't see Spongebob Squarepants, Fairly Oddparents and Jimmy Neutron on late at night. So while Nick is also guilty to a degree of the high expectations, they still give credit to their cartoons.

That's very true, and I would like to add in one extra thing here.

I talked to a friend of mine tonight who is following this, and I made a comment along the lines of "You know Inuyasha got 167 episodes that are 22 minutes long on Adult Swim and that is original Japanese Anime dubbed for America. The DragonBall franchise has over 300 episodes for it's 3 different versions (Dragonball, Dragonball Z, and Dragonball GT) and it too has been Americanized (Sure some episodes had to be censorted or cut due to the issue of nudity, but still that's a large franchise).

And yet not once since Ducktales has Disney ever pushed a series over 100 Episodes.

Not once.

Oh sure a few came close to 100, such as Darkwing Duck with 91 and Aladdin with 88, but still Disney is indeed going on the fads of the viewers and the demographics at hand.

In fact Recess doesn't count as it is 128 11 Minute episodes, which are 64 episodes 22 minutes shows plus a movie and a special that was 22 minutes long bringing it's total to just 66.

But Like you pointed out Nick is letting fans who love animation enjoy those shows at earlier hours or through out the day when they are able, and sometimes as late as 8 or 9 at night..

But Disney?

Their philosophy has sort have become a bit of a brainwashing technique here to have teens and Tweens tune in for live action shows and to dismiss animated series as if they were nothing. I mean Disney built itself and it's (Supposedly proud) heritage for over 80 years on animation and now they are dismissing it as if it were nothing, in favor of the live action material.
shoving it all to the morning hours between midnight and 5 am, save for Monday.

After all to them Live action works, Animation doesn't. It's kind of Ironic that Disney is dismissing animation and yet it's this one picture that is from the Kim Possible Episode, Rappin Drakken that says it all about the current Disney mindset, and in fact my own caption below is really what Disney is all about currently until enough people complain loudly enough to them to listen. But until then the animation point is totally moot to Disney.

It's sad to see a great animtion studio and company, get 'brainwashed' into thinking animation is bad and Live action is good. But what's even worse? Brainwashing their viewers to think animation is the bane of the world.. that Live action is the way to go. And Like I said, this one picture says it all in a nutshell.

http://caps.kpfanworld.com/images/59_Rappin_Drakken/1026.jpg
You will watch Live action shows! We Command you to!
Animation is Not worthy!
Lather, Rinse, and Obey watching live action fads till you get bored.

Pretty Prophetic words coming from a bottle of shampoo, don't you think?:p

:coyote:

[LeopoldStotch]

That's very true, but then they lost their late night edge when they closed down 'Vault Disney' In 2001 because they felt younger viewers wouldn't be interested in the older shows of the 1950's and 1960's like The Mickey Mouse Club or Zorro. To them Adults didn't count in 2001.. and they took their thinking in a new direction by looking at a smaller demographic rather then the entire family.. in short they got rid of the family and now just cater to 2-14 year olds. and if you're 15 or older and you love a show? You're part of the minority.



That's very true, and I would like to add in one extra thing here.

I talked to a friend of mine tonight who is following this, and I made a comment along the lines of "You know Inuyasha got 167 episodes that are 22 minutes long on Adult Swim and that is original Japanese Anime dubbed for America. The DragonBall franchise has over 300 episodes for it's 3 different versions (Dragonball, Dragonball Z, and Dragonball GT) and it too has been Americanized (Sure some episodes had to be censorted or cut due to the issue of nudity, but still that's a large franchise).

And yet not once since Ducktales has Disney ever pushed a series over 100 Episodes.

Not once.

Oh sure a few came close to 100, such as Darkwing Duck with 91 and Aladdin with 88, but still Disney is indeed going on the fads of the viewers and the demographics at hand.

In fact Recess doesn't count as it is 128 11 Minute episodes, which are 64 episodes 22 minutes shows plus a movie and a special that was 22 minutes long bringing it's total to just 66.

But Like you pointed out Nick is letting fans who love animation enjoy those shows at earlier hours or through out the day when they are able, and sometimes as late as 8 or 9 at night..

But Disney?

Their philosophy has sort have become a bit of a brainwashing technique here to have teens and Tweens tune in for live action shows and to dismiss animated series as if they were nothing. I mean Disney built itself and it's (Supposedly proud) heritage for over 80 years on animation and now they are dismissing it as if it were nothing, in favor of the live action material.
shoving it all to the morning hours between midnight and 5 am, save for Monday.

After all to them Live action works, Animation doesn't. It's kind of Ironic that Disney is dismissing animation and yet it's this one picture that is from the Kim Possible Episode, Rappin Drakken that says it all about the current Disney mindset, and in fact my own caption below is really what Disney is all about currently until enough people complain loudly enough to them to listen. But until then the animation point is totally moot to Disney.

It's sad to see a great animation studio and company, get 'brainwashed' into thinking animation is bad and Live action is good. But what's even worse? Brainwashing their viewers to think animation is the bane of the world.. that Live action is the way to go. And Like I said, this one picture says it all in a nutshell.

:coyote:


It is sad that animation is still being attacked at Disney. For decades, Disney has pushed the boundaries of animation. Now, it's the red-headed stepchild. Strangely, the most popular cable series (not on HBO) is "Sponge Bob". In fact, Nickelodean is now the dominant face in Animation. On the Fox television network, three animated series are currently airing, including the networks two most valuable properties, "Simpsons" & "Family Guy." The animated series are worth near a billion dollars to Fox, especially in syndication. On Disney's TV Network (ABC), number of animated series on it is two ("Emperor's New School" & "Replacements" which air at 9pm).

Animation is a good bet for a network...but it is not a trend right now. The return on series, like" Hannah", are much greater, despite being a fad. Eventually, kids will tire of it. That is the reason why over time, "Kim Possible" will be the longest running series in time in production, 5 years (2002-2007). Series, like "Sponge Bob", "the Simpsons" & "the Family Guy" have all gone through hills & valleys in the ratings during their runs. Fox stood by "the Simpsons." It cancelled "the Family Guy," but bought it back due to the fan support for the series.

One series might be able to be saved if fans act now..."Jake Long"

[launchpad25]

I guess all my suspicions of Disney Channel turning it's back on animation are indeed true. :( Sure, none of their current cartoon interest me, but dose their live action stuff have to be so bad?!:shame: Why don't they just replace Mickey Mouse with some faceless tweenage girl if that's their attitude.:rolleyes2: It really breaks my heart to see Disney throw it's legacy away like a "Prom Night Dumpster Baby" in favor of shallow mediocrety that brings in quick ratings.:mad:

[zoombie]

If you are serious about saving Disney Animation, in particularly Amercian Dragon: Jake Long, and maybe even Kim Possible. Go to this website, and be part of the solution.

http://savedisneyshows.org/

[Marinite]

I guess all my suspicions of Disney Channel turning it's back on animation are indeed true. :( Sure, none of their current cartoon interest me, but dose their live action stuff have to be so bad?!:shame: Why don't they just replace Mickey Mouse with some faceless tweenage girl if that's their attitude.:rolleyes2: It really breaks my heart to see Disney throw it's legacy away like a "Prom Night Dumpster Baby" in favor of shallow mediocrety that brings in quick ratings.:mad:

I'm pretty sure Mickey Mouse was around long before Disney Channel, so it's not like Disney Channel is his home or anything. Aside from House of Mouse, did he even have a show on there? People seem to think Disney Channel is all about animation, but it's not. People really like making a bigger deal about this stuff than it really is.

[Jave]

I'm pretty sure Mickey Mouse was around long before Disney Channel, so it's not like Disney Channel is his home or anything. Aside from House of Mouse, did he even have a show on there?Yes. In the early years of Disney Channel, they aired the clasic Disney shorts all the time.

[tucsoncoyote]

I'm pretty sure Mickey Mouse was around long before Disney Channel, so it's not like Disney Channel is his home or anything. Aside from House of Mouse, did he even have a show on there? People seem to think Disney Channel is all about animation, but it's not. People really like making a bigger deal about this stuff than it really is.

True but 30,40,even 50 years ago, Disney was not totally all live action. Oh sure you had shows like Davey Crockett, Zorro, and even the Mickey Mouse Club. But Like Jave Points out they also ran animated shorts as well. But it was after the 1960's and 1970's and "The Wonderful World of Disney that things started to swing wildly.

I mean in 1985, we had Gummi Bears and then every year after that usually did an animated series once a year. But still animated was usually on in the afternoon. (After all the Disney Afternoon was 2 hours a day. That is until Disney Channel and Toon Disney started.

But then during the late 1990's this is when things started to swing back towards Live action in fact sure you had Jett Jackson, Boy Meets World, Sister Sister, and even Even Stevens and Lizzie McGuire. But then soon Disney was starting to cater to that teen and tween issue as early as 2001. First they axed Vault Disney Late night, then they started to cut down the animation sections and now we have it where we have 4 hours of Playhouse Disney (Where we used to have 8, then 6 and now 4, In terms of animation we had 12 which now is down to 6, and live action? It's gone from 3 to 14 hours a day, most of these shows repeating 2 or even 3 times in a given day.

So what's the point of this story? Back in the 1960's and 1970's things were balanced, then in the 1980's and 1990's animation was king until about 1997-1999, then as soon as the 21st century rolled in, there went animation and now you have live action. The point is that Disney is now swinging wildly and leaning a lot more towards live action rather then seeing a good balance. It's starting to seem that Disney animation is a bygone era, and that until there's a swing back (if there is one), then Disney is going to keep promoting Live action shows until Kids tire of them all together.

So in short, until Disney can find it's center, it'll never be as good as either Nick or Cartoon Network. Why? Because Nick has found it's center. Animation during the day, Live action at night. but with Disney it's almost a mirror image of Nick, and yet for some odd reason they're continuing to crank out live action shows at rates that boggle even my mind.

So in closing Disney needs to get back to a 12/12 Live action/Animation set, with 4 of those 12 hours at least given to Playhouse disney, but until they do find center, they might lose one larger group of animation fans for a smaller group of live action fans. and when that happens and the live action fans lose interest in the shows and Disney's so called synergy has to create new ideas that are fresh. else they'll lose their live action base as well.

:coyote:

[Lavenderpaw]

they might lose one larger group of animation fans for a smaller group of live action fans. and when that happens and the live action fans lose interest in the shows and Disney's so called synergy has to create new ideas that are fresh. else they'll lose their live action base as well.

:coyote:

Well,it's very ascertained they'll lose many people by cancelling KP and probably one heck of a chunk by cancelling American Dragon.That's looking at it pretty realistically.Hannah Montana and Suite Life are DC's brainchilds for thier 'goal/conspiracy' in making all live action and they'll do whatever it takes to help them grow more.Exploit them every which way.Cancelling all animation from DC. has about a 50/50 chance of making a HUGE impact as to exploding the channel's ratings.It all depends on the fan's loyalty,both young and old in my oppion.

[tucsoncoyote]

Well,it's very ascertained they'll lose many people by cancelling KP and probably one heck of a chunk by cancelling American Dragon.That's looking at it pretty realistically.Hannah Montana and Suite Life are DC's brainchilds for thier 'goal/conspiracy' in making all live action and they'll do whatever it takes to help them grow more.Exploit them every which way.Cancelling all animation from DC. has about a 50/50 chance of making a HUGE impact as to exploding the channel's ratings.It all depends on the fan's loyalty,both young and old in my oppion.

That's true, but there's one thing that is a difference here between animation and Live action when it comes to Disney. Now when Christy Romano Finished up her Even Stevens Jaunt, the folks at Disney sent her to Disney's Kim Possible for 1 whole season before sending her off to Broadway play Beauty and the Beast, and then of course when the fans wanted more KP, Christy easily reprised her role and has kept true to form. Same thing goes for Will Friedle even though He and Fred Savage left Boy Meets World Years ago.

Now the real issue here is this: When a Live action Actor/Actress gets too old on Disney, what is it that they do? They close down the show, and let the actor/Actress go. I mean let's take a look here, Shia LeBeouf of Even Stevens has already been let go, as well as Christy Romano from their Live action show. But Shia's already found work in a couple of Disney Live action movies, and that has now gotten to the point where he's acting in Paramount's Transformers this summer. Christy OTOH, was lucky enough to reprise her role as Kim Possible. Raven (Symone) also got let go as Raven Baxter in That's So Raven, and Even from The Cheetah Girls set (There won't be a Cheetah Girls 3 movie btw), but she was lucky to renew her Role as Monique on Kim Possible. Same thing goes for John Dimaggio and Nicole Sullivan and even Patrick Warburton (Who interestingly enough has more then enough time considering he's working on Season 3 of The Venture Brothers and Season 2 of The Emperor's New School.)

But then Let's take a look at some of the other Live action stars. Both Dylan and Cole Sprouse are still young enough to do maybe another year of Zack and Cody but they've also done some VA work as well in The Emperor's New School. Kyle Massey? He's done VA work in Jake Long and I have a feeling soon Cory in the House will be winding up shortly. And Millie Cyrus? Oh sure she's the Top of the heap as Hannah Montana but soon she'll end up Like Christy, Shia, and even Raven, that is if Disney can find an animated series to put Millie in.

But if Disney put a little more into Animation and a use their actors/actresses wisely they could have animated shows that go on for a few years instead of 3, before shutting down. I mean where is Analise Vanderpol Now? Off at Broadway doing Beauty and the Beast. So what happens when they let her go?

In short, Disney is constantly throwing out older Actors/Actresses like they're throwing out cash with the Trash as Antiyounder pointed out earlier and sure they're bringing new talent in. This year it may be Millie Cyrus but who's going to replace her as well as the Sprouse Twins?

But they (Disney) tend to forget there are other ways to use actors and actresses.. and this of course is as Voice Actors/Actresses, or VA's as they call them.

I mean Look at Danny Basco (Jake of American Dragon: Jake Long) he's got a great gig going onver at Nick as Prince Zuko, and in fact I wouldn't be surprised if Avitar does go on a bit longer (Not too much longer, but still a bit longer then say Danny Phantom.)

The point is this, Disney is not really using their actors/Actresses wisely, Why did Allison Michaka, Leave Phil of the Future? It's the exact Same Reason why Hilary Duff Left Lizzie McGuire. And what about other actors/actresses? Where's Lalaine (of Lizzie McGuire Fame) now? Last I heard she was trying to create her first record.

But then I have to say if Disney would move some of their actors/Actresses over to VA work for animated series (much like they did with Christy and Will for KP), then the appeal is still there, but rather then doing so, Disney just cuts them loose in favor of new kids coming in and thus the cycle repeats.

In the end, what happens when finally the fans tire of the current live action shows, what has Disney got lined up in terms of Live action shows coming this fall? What have the got lined up for animated shows this fall? That's a really big question that Disney isn't going to answer until August at least.

And without some answers, Disney might be caught flat footed while other companies like Nick and CN keep spinning the wheel of animation and live action, and keep shows going (After all I heard that Totally Spies! on CN while it wasn't coming back in animated form, has spun off into a potential Live action or animated Movie (That according to Cynthia Turners Kids! archives).

But as for Disney? Like Antiyonder said, kids will swarm to one fad, then the next, but what happens when you run out of fads? What do you have to fall back on? Well in Disney's case, Absolutely nothing or very little to say the least.

So there you go, Disney should take a lesson from Nick and CN, keep some of the actors and actresses as VA's just in case folks want more animation. After all Animation and Live action at Disney tends to swing back and forth like a pendulum, and sooner or later kids will tire of the Live action and want new animated shows, shows that are as good as some of the older Disney material, like Darkwing Duck, Buzz Lightyear, and Aladdin. But if Disney isn't careful and puts it's eggs in just one basket (Namely Live action) they'll have little (or nothing) To fall back on when they need animation the most.

So I hope Disney is ready if and when that swing occurs.

:coyote:

[TheFZAtUGSOnline]

Tuscon, i think u made some spelling errors, Miley Is Not Mille... I Know, I Can Tell...
BTW, Off Topic: 'Hannah Concert At NYC June 22nd (ABC's GMA Summer Concert Series), Any1 Going To It?

[Antiyonder]

In short, Disney is constantly throwing out older Actors/Actresses like they're throwing out cash with the Trash as Antiyounder pointed out earlier and sure they're bringing new talent in. This year it may be Millie Cyrus but who's going to replace her as well as the Sprouse Twins?:coyote:

I'm the one would made the statement, not this Antiyounder mook you're refering to.

[Marinite]

In short, Disney is constantly throwing out older Actors/Actresses like they're throwing out cash with the Trash as Antiyounder pointed out earlier and sure they're bringing new talent in. This year it may be Millie Cyrus but who's going to replace her as well as the Sprouse Twins?:coyote: Someone new, it's as simple as that. Disney has done an excellent job at starting people's careers, and there's no lack of talent out there for Disney to pick up. Even if they don't go on to VA, there's plenty of VAs out there Disney can use. There is no rule that says they have to use their live-actors as VAs.

This is also ignoring the fact Hannah Montana just started its second season awhile ago, and Suite Life will start its third in a little bit. Kim Possible has had 4 seasons now, so no one has the right to complain if Kim Possible gets bumped off for newer shows. It's been around for 6 years now, while Hannah Montana and Suite life have been around for only 2 or 3. You can't watch the same show forever, you know.

[Mugen]

You can't watch the same show forever, you know.

Tell that to the Simpsons, Law and Order, Sesame Street, etc.

[Antiyonder]

This is also ignoring the fact Hannah Montana just started its second season awhile ago, and Suite Life will start its third in a little bit. Kim Possible has had 4 seasons now, so no one has the right to complain if Kim Possible gets bumped off for newer shows. It's been around for 6 years now, while Hannah Montana and Suite life have been around for only 2 or 3. You can't watch the same show forever, you know.

I agree on Kim Possible getting enough seasons, but you dodged (surprise surprise) some questions on our part. Should the Disney Channel become cartoon free, what should happen if all of their live action programs lower in ratings due to overairing them? That's in part a reason why I believe their cartoons are lowering in ratings.

[Marinite]

I agree on Kim Possible getting enough seasons, but you dodged (surprise surprise) some questions on our part. Should the Disney Channel become cartoon free, what should happen if all of their live action programs lower in ratings due to overairing them? That's in part a reason why I believe their cartoons are lowering in ratings. It's a rhetorical question. Disney will always have at least one cartoon show on its channel. Maybe not the focus like Hannah Montana or High School Musical is, but they still make new cartoons like Replacements and Emperor's New School. They just focus more on Live-Action (if the whole "80s and 90s were about animation" thing is true, then it's only fair live-action gets its chance to get the spotlight) I doubt many people complained when live-action was getting the shaft back then, seems a bit hypocritical.

I didn't dodge the questions, I just choose not to bother since they're either opinions or theories/rhetorical questions, which are pointless arguing since you can't change someones opinion, and arguing about "what ifs" doesn't suit me since they're just that, "what ifs". You can only really argue facts and numbers.

[tucsoncoyote]

I'm the one would made the statement, not this Antiyounder mook you're refering to.

And you know you try typing while sitting in 95 degree heat and even with the AC Running your house/apartment feels like 96, considering it's brick.

But seriously back in the day there was balance now it's like "Antiyonder" said, it's been all this tween fad issues but then what happens when Disney finally does take the final step and leaves animation on Toon disney which very few families can affoard since it's on a lot of Premium packages and Toon Disney gets on average about 40 million viewers vs Disney Channel's 90 million.. is it the toons that pay the bills or rather the live action shows? That's a question I have to ask. Because if Animation pays the bills, then really they're not making much cash, and if it's live action, Disney better have some backups in store when they finally close down production on Hannah Montana and Suite life.

But that's just my opinion and my observation on all this.. Frankly the day Disney yanks all the animation off DC is the day I block the channel.

:coyote:

[AhmedtheHead]

Ay, yi yi! It seems like all of my shows are going. The King of Queens, Scrubs, Ed, Edd n Eddy, and now this. What's going on!?:confused:

[Ed Liu]

is it the toons that pay the bills or rather the live action shows? That's a question I have to ask. Because if Animation pays the bills, then really they're not making much cash, and if it's live action, Disney better have some backups in store when they finally close down production on Hannah Montana and Suite life.

Ratings determine advertising rates. Shows that more people watch can command higher prices for ads. Live action shows get higher ratings right now on the Disney Channel. Therefore, Disney will make more live-action shows. Your assessment seems predicated on the assumption that animation pays the bills, but it doesn't, at least in the short term. You can argue whether it pays in the long-term, but it's a pointless argument because nobody in the industry thinks that far ahead and, unless you're privy to numbers not generally available to the public, we have nothing to found any of our arguments on.

I'm also still puzzled why you seem to think that the eventual cancellation of Suite Life or Hannah Montana will somehow spell doom for Disney's TV networks. It really wasn't all that long ago that Hillary Duff was dominating the channel. There was also the Clarissa Explains it All girl and Kenan and Kel on Nickelodeon. Looking at the network programming now, it's as though none of those shows ever existed. None of the networks went under because they stopped making those shows, and that's because networks are constantly developing new shows. I know that Wendy Wu: Homecoming Warrior was specifically developed to see if the concept would fly as a series, and I suspect the same is true of most DCOMs. Why would you assume that they would ever stop just because they happen to have a hit?

I don't think it's news to anybody here that Disney's animation (outside of Pixar) has hit rough times of late. I think that some of the reasons why are endemic to the institution, but I think it's foolish to believe that Disney will abandon TV animation entirely. Tradition if nothing else will prevent that from happening. The fact that John Lasseter is now part of the company and is restarting the shorts program to find new talent shows that the company DOES care about animated properties. I think the company will get its groove back eventually.

Until then, so long Mark & Bob, thanks for all the laughs over the years, best of luck in your next endeavors, and gimme my Kim boxed sets, Disney!

-- Ed

[DarthGonzo]

So how long til the "Goodbye Kim Possible" AMVs start popping up on YouTube again? :p

[TheFZAtUGSOnline]

So how long til the "Goodbye Kim Possible" AMVs start popping up on YouTube again? :p
In Due Time People, In Due Time....
I Wonder If One Of These AMV Contain Hannah's Song About Being In A Movie... (Because That Song Would Fit Well In A Fairwell AMV)

BTW: Did Any1 Read My "Keys To Cancelation" Article I Posted?

[Caswin]

BTW: Did Any1 Read My "Keys To Cancelation" Article I Posted?Where is it, and is every word in it capitalized, too?

[Jave]

BTW: Did Any1 Read My "Keys To Cancelation" Article I Posted?I tried, but since you left, I can't read it. I can't see ghost posts. :(

[DarthGonzo]

I tried, but since you left, I can't read it. I can't see ghost posts. :(

Can somewho (besides FZAT) explain this "ghost" stuff to me? How exactly has he "left" when he's still here posting like posting is going out of style?

[Jave]

Can somewho (besides FZAT) explain this "ghost" stuff to me? How exactly has he "left" when he's still here posting like posting is going out of style?It's just an excuse so he can still post here, since he can't admit he can't leave this board. My post was just a joke regarding that.

[DarthGonzo]

It's just an excuse so he can still post here, since he can't admit he can't leave this board. My post was just a joke regarding that.

Ah. I figured as much. I still don't get it, but whatever.

[Antiyonder]

I don't think it's news to anybody here that Disney's animation (outside of Pixar) has hit rough times of late. I think that some of the reasons why are endemic to the institution, but I think it's foolish to believe that Disney will abandon TV animation entirely. Tradition if nothing else will prevent that from happening. The fact that John Lasseter is now part of the company and is restarting the shorts program to find new talent shows that the company DOES care about animated properties. I think the company will get its groove back eventually.
-- Ed

I still believe that promoting them better, would get more viewers interested in the cartoons. Though I'm not sure if they take schedule ideas, but I'm going to offer a more constructive suggestion.

If live action shows are indeed bringing in more money and ratings, it has to do with the stars of the show a bit correct. My suggestion, is that they have a marathon of the particular cartoons which has voice actors from the live action shows, advertising that fact. Here's the best choices:

Kim Possible:
Will Friedle (Eric Matthews/Boy Meets World)- Ron Stoppable
Raven Symone (Raven Baxter/That's So Raven)- Monique

American Dragon Jake Long:
Amy Bruckner (Pim Diffy/Phil Of The Future)- Haley Long
Kyle Massey (Cory Baxter/That's So Raven and Cory In The House)- Huntsboy 88

Those who watch the Disney Channel for Boy Meets World, That's So Raven, Cory In The House and Phil Of The Future just might watch them due to the plug in of said actor. Even possibly liking the show on it's own merit in the process.

Sound like it could work?

[comrade_chin]

Well uh this is my first post here.As those from RS.net may know me as Comrade_Chin already.Im just going to say a couple of things and i might repeat what people have said for the past 5 pages but im too lazy to read but here goes my opinion on this.Hmm with 7.4 million viewers since its the only figure i got and at the top with the live action its quite hard to believe they are gonna cancel it and not promote or merchandize it.The figures may be wrong since it quite old but if lets say it goes down it wouldnt be that much and its also thnx to DC US sloppy work at airing KP with hatred or something or it could go up which i think so since RS.net seems to be getting a lot of new guys who got interested in KP at only S4.

1)Well yes some of you made a point that if the show were to be continued without the original crew's touch and lets say if it were to be renewed for a S5 it might go down like Gargoyles but lets look at this at a positive way.Look at the James Bond franchise,even without Ian Flemming the Bond shows are still great and it still goes on but they do give credit to the original guy so if a new team were to come in and do that im ok with it.It could go the bad way or the good way

2)Well yes the FFF is pretty dashed into the trash can with the departure of the VIP's but if we were to continue to fight for a S5 maybe their contract would be renewed(although this is very highly unlikely to happen)

3)Well now were fighting for Boxsets which if you think of it is indirectly fighting for a Season 5.Just look at Family Guy for example it came back after a few years due to great DVD Box Sales.If we do achieve the Boxsets and it sells this could happen.

4)Actually i dont really see the big difference with what happen when S3 ended.The KP studio was packed up and yadi yada and the VIP's was still on contract and were only around because they were doing Sky High.Well except now the VIP have left.

5)Lets hope a Japanese animation company doesnt buy the right to KP like they did with PPG.That would be a nightmare but at least KP will continue but uh NO WAY man.

6)Well lets put it this way the Kim Possible series doesnt have a solid storyline.Like the Simpsons it can just go forever and ever.Continuation wouldnt be a problem for the KP Series since it can nv have a solid ending.It always leave an open question at the end like S4 when STD was suppose to be the end.The question was how it will the K/R work out.So with S4 ending.We will again have a question of how the college stuff all will work out.Unlike some anime's or cartoons which have a solid sotryline would come to and end,for KP i would think otherwise.So a next season is always possible but of course we all know it must end sometime but i dont feel it is time yet.

The 2 main factors and things to happen to increase our chances of winning the Boxsets and maybe even a S5.
1)The good ratings from the Europe and Asia to back up the already so called dropped tremendously rating in the US(which is thanks to sloppy DC US channel team work or hatred for the show or something).With the good ratings of S4 Boxsets should be easier.
2)If the release of the DVD Boxsets is released and the sales is great.Than the chances of S5 is higher.
Hmmm i guess if this two were to happen everything comes naturally and will take its turn to happen.Other than that well lets use the ideas from the last meeting and some new one on this board.
3)Probably more games and merchandizing will also help the cause(hmmm but this is pretty hard to pull off)(Although there are leaks and rumours that KP is in KH3.Lets hope thats true)

Ideas from the meeting that was held by the movement a week back
Email(The basic weapon to use)
Letters / Postcards(Already being done and is way more effective than emails)
Sending in fanart related to SKP(Well how many artist do we have in our cause?We need more)
Sending in cheese(Hmmm well i think the shampoo is a better choice since some ppl stated its illegal to send food to other country or something)
Sending in shampoo with Dr. D's "Lather, Rinse, and Obey"(some ppl are already doing it)
Sending in KP merchandise (Now i dont think ppl like the globekeeper would want to send their holy artifacts now do they LOL.Even i wont do it if i have one)
Save KP buttons and other stuff from Cafe Press(This stuff needs to be upgraded)
And we need more marketing.We need more videos.We need more arts to promote the movement(Although this requires a lot of patience and skill)

And just a notice the next FFKP(its no more the FFF) or aka SKP Day is on June 7th for those who dont know.Be it whether your fighting on a S5,Boxsets etc.

Man that was long winded sorry for my long post.Just want to make my 1st post "grand".And despite the recent setbacks.Some things have happen that seems to favour the movement.

[TheFZAtUGSOnline]

Where is it, and is every word in it capitalized, too?

I tried, but since you left, I can't read it. I can't see ghost posts. :(

Can somewho (besides FZAT) explain this "ghost" stuff to me? How exactly has he "left" when he's still here posting like posting is going out of style?

It's just an excuse so he can still post here, since he can't admit he can't leave this board. My post was just a joke regarding that.

Ah. I figured as much. I still don't get it, but whatever.

Here's The First Edition of The FZ's Keys Of Cancelation (The Kim Edition): (Right Here In Page 3) (http://forums.toonzone.net/showpost.php?p=2541611&postcount=54)

Also, Im Using Invisible Mode, So Still, I Am The Ghost of TZ's Past!

+Vanishes+

[DarthGonzo]

Here's The First Edition of The FZ's Keys Of Cancelation (The Kim Edition): (Right Here In Page 3) (http://forums.toonzone.net/showpost.php?p=2541611&postcount=54)

I refuse to read any of that until you edit that post and quit capitalizing every dang word.

Also, Im Using Invisible Mode, So Still, I Am The Ghost of TZ's Past!

+Vanishes+Dude, you do realize no one finds this amusing, right?

[Burdette25159]

I still believe that promoting them better, would get more viewers interested in the cartoons. Though I'm not sure if they take schedule ideas, but I'm going to offer a more constructive suggestion.

If live action shows are indeed bringing in more money and ratings, it has to do with the stars of the show a bit correct. My suggestion, is that they have a marathon of the particular cartoons which has voice actors from the live action shows, advertising that fact. Here's the best choices:

Kim Possible:
Will Friedle (Eric Matthews/Boy Meets World)- Ron Stoppable
Raven Symone (Raven Baxter/That's So Raven)- Monique

American Dragon Jake Long:
Amy Bruckner (Pim Diffy/Phil Of The Future)- Haley Long
Kyle Massey (Cory Baxter/That's So Raven and Cory In The House)- Huntsboy 88

Those who watch the Disney Channel for Boy Meets World, That's So Raven, Cory In The House and Phil Of The Future just might watch them due to the plug in of said actor. Even possibly liking the show on it's own merit in the process.

Sound like it could work?

I think Haley Long should have her own show!

[Lavenderpaw]

I think Haley Long should have her own show!

Well,if Jake stays in Hong Kong it will definitely be a Haley Long:American Dragon. :sweat:

[Caswin]

It is the way i type, doy!It is a frustratingly difficult-to-read way of typing.

[stargirl]

Disney's treatment of not only KP but all their animated shows is a perfect example of how animation today isn't getting the respect and attention it deserves.:mad:
Disney, you can take KP off. But, no matter what, you can't take off the place it has secured in TV history: one of the most successful cartoons of all time.
LET'S KEEP FIGHTING FOR FIVE, EVERYONE!!!

[launchpad25]

Frankly the day Disney yanks all the animation off DC is the day I block the channel.

:coyote:
For me, the day Disney Channel became a 'teenybopper' channel was the day i started blocking it.

[Lavenderpaw]

I don't think Disney Channel will completely exclude cartoons but it can't keep giving animation the kind of treatment it does.Sooner or later they are going to come across the glorious new revelation that is sweeping the nation (or swept) Blocks!One for their Live Action and one for their cartoons.But the day they make a cartoon that even begins to match up with Kim Possible or American Dragon is the day I will consider DC worth my time.It's absolutely incredible the treatment American Dragon is getting,absolutely.I'd say the same for KP but it had it's run and also airs on Mondays.Amdrag not only has a crappy timeslot on weekdays but it's as if it doesn't even air on weekdays and come to think of it,it shouldn't air on weekdays if all it gets is a dead air time.KP and Amdrag are ending.Amdrag could and should be saved. :)