What If: Live-Action Robin Series?

[Sage Shinigami]

Okay, I wasn't sure whether to put this in the entertainment forum or this one but I figure since its just a what-if it belongs here. First off...some ground rules.

1.) If you think Robin is still Dick Grayson and runs around in the fairy boots and the scaled green underwear...don't bother posting.
2.) If you only know the current Robin by what you've seen in the DCAU and have never read Chuck Dixon's brilliant run on Robin way back when...again, don't bother.

Not trying to be mean just...if I'm going to put THOUGHT into this I want thought out responses and not just "Robin sucks!" or a variation of it. I thought this up after I had a dream about reading a comic and seeing an ad for live-action series for Superboy, Impulse, *and* Robin. (If only I were so lucky.)

Anyway. Its no secret that Smallville is a big hit and WB has tried numerous times to duplicate the success either with a show like Smallville (see the Mercy Reef pilot...or don't since I hear its horrible) or at least another superhero show (Super Max got greenlit, for whatever reason).

Well...what about Robin? Again, not the Dick Grayson one who needed a change of name AND costume before he could step out of Batman's shadow. And certainly not the very annoying Jason Todd. No, I mean the current Robin, Tim Drake, who for quite a while now has been a pretty impressive "super"hero in his own right. He has a brilliant mind, is a fantastic martial artist (though not QUITE on the level of Bats or Dick) and has numerous times been stated to have powers of deductive reasoning on a level surpassing Batman.

As a testament to exactly how popular this particular Robin is, his current comic book is at over 160 issues (while the other Robins couldn't even get a monthly) and counting with no signs of slowing down.

For those of you who haven't read the original Chuck Dixon run (you should--its an addicting 100 issues), there's a lot of country-hopping (as he continues his training and fights villains), crazy martial arts fights, and high school drama.

Using Robin history as a guide (but not too much--some things just aren't necessary), the series would practically write itself for at least three or four seasons.

S1: The basic establishment of Robin as a character. Either you could do his origin story (in which he guesses who the original Batman and Robin are, loses his mother, and goes on a trip around the country to better his skills as a martial artist)...or start right off with him as Robin, introducing his supporting characters, making him face some of Batman's villains and take them down (making him seem more like his own hero and not just "the kid who hangs with Batman).

S2: The story expands. Here you could do an entire arc with Spoiler as well as give Robin his own rogues gallery, distancing him from Batman a little. (Basically make him more than, "the kid who fights Bats' villains when Bats is off with the JLA or whatever.)

S3: Robin meets...the other Robins. Okay, presuming you managed to get this far without falling asleep, laughing, or debunking the idea as stupid entirely, I may lose you here but hear me out. There are plenty of legacy characters in live-action drama shows, plus this gives the series a great chance to address the idea of exactly why there've been so many Robins when they're supposed to be trained by one of the greatest martial artists alive. Both Dick *and* Jason could appear, but Jason would be the focal point as his origin remains basically the same as the comics--thought killed by the Joker but eventually heals and comes back to basically make Tim's life hell. First by defeating him in combat (and leaving him with the thought to quit before Batman gets him killed), then by rallying most of the villains he faced in Season 2 against him. The season ending could end in Spoiler dying but saving Tim's life, but that's optional. (I liked that character and her dying was okay with me but she should've had a more heroic death.)

S4 could feature the members of the Teen Titans (I would say Young Justice but if Superboy can't show up it ain't YJ...though it might be cool to end the show as YJ was created to be a spin-off series) but I think by now you get the idea. This show writes itself but the true question is could it become popular or would people just dismiss it because its about the little kid obsessed with fairy boots and shaving his legs. :D

Okay. I typed all this crap so let's hear some real answers folks or I'll have to bring out my Batarangs and "R" shuriken. ;)

[Anthonynotes]

Hmm....

If it's a live-action TV series, it'd mean appealing to the general public, and thus I'd assume it'd either use a mixture of Tim Drake and Dick Grayson's origins/costumes/versions/supporting casts, or use Dick Grayson (the most famous Robin; the general public's barely heard of Tim Drake at best), but go off on its own path (a la Smallville's Clark)---maybe with the series finale showing him grown up and becoming Nightwing?

Yes, I know comic fans like Tim, but Hollywood and the general public's another matter... though imagine much like how "Smallville" combined pre- and post-Crisis elements of young Clark Kent's backstory, a combination of Dick and Tim's elements would probably happen with a "Robin" show (even if it's just using Dick's name and origin but Tim's personality/supporting cast/enemies/etc. for everything else).


As for Superboy, technically that'd be "Smallville", which is already a possible target of that lawsuit over the rights to the Boy of Steel between DC and Siegel / Shuster's heirs... so probably no chance of him showing up. An Impulse or Kid Flash character easily could, though...



As a testament to exactly how popular this particular Robin is, his current comic book is at over 160 issues (while the other Robins couldn't even get a monthly) and counting with no signs of slowing down.

Well, actually, if backup stories count, Dick Grayson did have his own solo series from 1947-1952 in "Star Spangled Comics" (most of which should be available in a collected DC Archives edition)...

-B.

[DR.MID-NITE]

My only concern would be the lack of Batman. In the Birds of Prey tv show. People were p/o'ed that Bats wasn't around. And with Robin it would only be worse. And the biggest problem is Warner theatrical would never allow it. Since it would conflict with the Batman movies.

I could see a Nightwing show being made. Just because its set in a different town than Gotham.

[Sage Shinigami]

Hmm....

If it's a live-action TV series, it'd mean appealing to the general public, and thus I'd assume it'd either use a mixture of Tim Drake and Dick Grayson's origins/costumes/versions/supporting casts, or use Dick Grayson (the most famous Robin; the general public's barely heard of Tim Drake at best), but go off on its own path (a la Smallville's Clark)---maybe with the series finale showing him grown up and becoming Nightwing?

Yes, I know comic fans like Tim, but Hollywood and the general public's another matter... though imagine much like how "Smallville" combined pre- and post-Crisis elements of young Clark Kent's backstory, a combination of Dick and Tim's elements would probably happen with a "Robin" show (even if it's just using Dick's name and origin but Tim's personality/supporting cast/enemies/etc. for everything else).


As for Superboy, technically that'd be "Smallville", which is already a possible target of that lawsuit over the rights to the Boy of Steel between DC and Siegel / Shuster's heirs... so probably no chance of him showing up. An Impulse or Kid Flash character easily could, though...



Well, actually, if backup stories count, Dick Grayson did have his own solo series from 1947-1952 in "Star Spangled Comics" (most of which should be available in a collected DC Archives edition)...

-B.

That's pretty much my point. If they'd have tried to give Dick his own solo series back then (one that says "Robin"), they'd have been laughed out of the offices.

And I'm not sure why comic fans always think you need to use a Silver Age version of a character so the mainstream can recognize them. The fact is, if a movie isn't out, people don't even recognize a really simple bit of comic trivia like a secret identity. I saw a game show once where they asked numerous different people what Batman's real name was and out of seven or eight most didn't even get it right! ("I didn't know he had a real name" was the typical response.)

The fact is, without a movie out, even A-list superheroes are barely recognizable to the general public so whether you used Dick, Jason, or Tim isn't really important I just think Tim works better without having to majorly change his origin.


My only concern would be the lack of Batman. In the Birds of Prey tv show. People were p/o'ed that Bats wasn't around. And with Robin it would only be worse. And the biggest problem is Warner theatrical would never allow it. Since it would conflict with the Batman movies.

I could see a Nightwing show being made. Just because its set in a different town than Gotham.

I guess he COULD show up but it'd have to be a few episodes first. Any appearances would have to be used sparingly to keep him from overshadowing Tim. But the real thing that pissed people off concerning the Birds of Prey show (including me) was that Bats wasn't around because he punked out and retired. That was just a bad idea.

He COULD show up uncostumed, teaching Tim some techniques. Though that might be a bigger problem than if he only showed up in costume since the actors wouldn't match up.

As far as the movies go...well say Robin's set in the future....or say Begins is in the past. According to the director of Begins Robin is "in a crib somewhere", which doesn't make sense really but whatevs. Begins is pretty timeless (not in quality though it is good--just that there aren't any big references that would make you notice what year it was made) so you could say it takes place in the 90s and you couldn't really be proven wrong. Yeah, I know the tech doesn't match up but this is the DCU. The tech never matches up. :D

[Anthonynotes]

That's pretty much my point. If they'd have tried to give Dick his own solo series back then (one that says "Robin"), they'd have been laughed out of the offices.

And I'm not sure why comic fans always think you need to use a Silver Age version of a character so the mainstream can recognize them. The fact is, if a movie isn't out, people don't even recognize a really simple bit of comic trivia like a secret identity. I saw a game show once where they asked numerous different people what Batman's real name was and out of seven or eight most didn't even get it right! ("I didn't know he had a real name" was the typical response.)


Presumably since the "mainstream", or at least anyone over the age of 30, grew up on the Silver Age versions of the characters via the comics/the Adam West Batman TV show/the Superfriends/the Reeve Superman movies/etc., and a multitude of parodies thereof, and the Silver Age characters' origins tend to be more straightforward/with less backstory to explain than many of their modern/current versions. Ask the general non-comic reading public who Superboy is and they'll likely respond either "Superman's kid" (erroneously) or "Superman when he was a boy" (*not* "Superman's partial-clone")... well, that or "who?" ;-)

That said, I think the general public just thinks "Robin" = "Robin", and don't think of who his alter ego is much at all, so imagine Tim could work---but still think they'd likely go the "Teen Titans" cartoon's route and blend Tim and Dick's backstories/trappings together (and ignore Jason)...

A late-middle-aged coworker last week asked me what the name of "Bruce Wayne's ward" was, and I gave "Dick Grayson" as the answer----since it A) is technically a valid answer and B) seemed easier than stating "Dick Grayson was his ward, but then he grew up and became his own hero, so Batman took on another partner named Jason Todd, who eventually died; following that, Batman then took on a *third* partner, Tim Drake...", a response that I'm pretty sure he isn't in the mood to listen to... :-p

-B.

[Sage Shinigami]

Presumably since the "mainstream", or at least anyone over the age of 30, grew up on the Silver Age versions of the characters via the comics/the Adam West Batman TV show/the Superfriends/the Reeve Superman movies/etc., and a multitude of parodies thereof, and the Silver Age characters' origins tend to be more straightforward/with less backstory to explain than many of their modern/current versions. Ask the general non-comic reading public who Superboy is and they'll likely respond either "Superman's kid" (erroneously) or "Superman when he was a boy" (*not* "Superman's partial-clone")... well, that or "who?" ;-)


Well those answers are logical and have little to nothing to do with the fact that in the Silver Age Superman was once Superboy.



That said, I think the general public just thinks "Robin" = "Robin", and don't think of who his alter ego is much at all, so imagine Tim could work---but still think they'd likely go the "Teen Titans" cartoon's route and blend Tim and Dick's backstories/trappings together (and ignore Jason)...


Generally, yeah the public just thinks Robin is Robin but I'm not sure why you think Teen Titans merges Dick and Tim. When I ask my Magic Eight Ball if Robin on that show is Dick Grayson it says "All Signs Point to Yes". :D About the only thing that comes from Tim is the costume. Other than that its all Grayson. From subtle references ("Kicd Nosyarg", Nightwing) to his character.




A late-middle-aged coworker last week asked me what the name of "Bruce Wayne's ward" was, and I gave "Dick Grayson" as the answer----since it A) is technically a valid answer and B) seemed easier than stating "Dick Grayson was his ward, but then he grew up and became his own hero, so Batman took on another partner named Jason Todd, who eventually died; following that, Batman then took on a *third* partner, Tim Drake...", a response that I'm pretty sure he isn't in the mood to listen to... :-p

-B.

Well Tim's not Wayne's ward anyway. Those days are gone. Tim is his son.

[Frank Castle]

I'd like to see a Chris O'Donnell-esque Robin where he's pissed off about his parents' death and goes across the country beating the (snot) out of criminals while trying to figure out what the heck his purpose in life is supposed to be. Of course he would mainly be wearing his biker gear rather than the Robin suit. Bats would have a cameo or two but that would be about it. With the exemption of Smallville, superhero shows have always blown due to budget issues and demographics. This way, there's a Smallville flavor to it that's simple yet refreshing due to it not conforming to the standard spandex and special effects that everyone's used to when they think of Batman and Robin.

[Sage Shinigami]

I'd like to see a Chris O'Donnell-esque Robin where he's pissed off about his parents' death and goes across the country beating the (snot) out of criminals while trying to figure out what the heck his purpose in life is supposed to be. Of course he would mainly be wearing his biker gear rather than the Robin suit. Bats would have a cameo or two but that would be about it. With the exemption of Smallville, superhero shows have always blown due to budget issues and demographics. This way, there's a Smallville flavor to it that's simple yet refreshing due to it not conforming to the standard spandex and special effects that everyone's used to when they think of Batman and Robin.

Except Smallville sucks too. Well...to me at least. Something as "grounded" as a series from the Batman universe really shouldn't go over budget but oh well. Still, if I hear of one more series that's doing a superhero show but without the costumes....I'm going to hurt someone.

[Frank Castle]

Still, if I hear of one more series that's doing a superhero show but without the costumes....I'm going to hurt someone.
You must be thrilled that they're making a Green Arrow movie where he'll never be in costume.:D

[Sage Shinigami]

You must be thrilled that they're making a Green Arrow movie where he'll never be in costume.:D

The trend is annoying as hell, and its even more annoying that seemingly no one is bothered by it. When someone wants to do a "serious" or "mature" take on a character like with Batman Begins, fans think the writers are "embarassed" by the source material, but when they don't want them to wear the costumes, one of the biggest staples of superhero comics, its a good idea?? That's crap. Heroes I can forgive since its not for me. Smallville I can kinda forgive because its supposed to show Clark before he put on the costume. Super Max though....screw that.

[Shawn Hopkins]

No Robin series. Robin is too closely tied to Batman. There should be a Nightwing series. Nightwing has moved out on his own and became his own hero so you wouldn't have to feature Batman that much, just a few references would do.

After all, what's the point of a series where you have to use Batman and not making it about Batman? People wouldn't get it, and they wouldn't be able to get the image of the little boy in green shortpants out of their minds, no matter how much you think they should.

Nightwing would also have a much higher chance of success if they cast a handsome male lead. Finally, Nightwing is just way cooler.

Your making me feel old with that "way back when" stuff in regards to Dixon's run, by the way. My way back-when Robin was Jason Todd.

[Sage Shinigami]

No Robin series. Robin is too closely tied to Batman. There should be a Nightwing series. Nightwing has moved out on his own and became his own hero so you wouldn't have to feature Batman that much, just a few references would do.

After all, what's the point of a series where you have to use Batman and not making it about Batman? People wouldn't get it, and they wouldn't be able to get the image of the little boy in green shortpants out of their minds, no matter how much you think they should.

Nightwing would also have a much higher chance of success if they cast a handsome male lead. Finally, Nightwing is just way cooler.

Your making me feel old with that "way back when" stuff in regards to Dixon's run, by the way. My way back-when Robin was Jason Todd.

Except people haven't seen the little boy in the green shortpants in popular media since the Batman TV show. Even in Batman: TAS, Batman Forever, and that crappy Batman & Robin.

Incidentally...why would you have to put Batman in the series a lot? He could show up, sure, but you make it sound like he'd need to be in every episode and that's not even how they got the comic to work. You can probably count the number of times Bats has shown up in costume during that 100 issue run on one hand. Both in AND out of costume probably on both.

I think you're letting your like of Nightwing blind you....in fact, I know you are. :D Even Chuck Dixon's part of Nightwing doesn't stand up to what he did on Robin. And the fact is...high-school superhero hits more popular demographics than superhero/cop. That said, if a Robin series worked, a spinoff Nightwing one would be great. Anything good so that I can ignore Smallville. :sad:

[Shawn Hopkins]

Except people haven't seen the little boy in the green shortpants in popular media since the Batman TV show. Even in Batman: TAS, Batman Forever, and that crappy Batman & Robin.

Incidentally...why would you have to put Batman in the series a lot? He could show up, sure, but you make it sound like he'd need to be in every episode and that's not even how they got the comic to work. You can probably count the number of times Bats has shown up in costume during that 100 issue run on one hand. Both in AND out of costume probably on both.

I think you're letting your like of Nightwing blind you....in fact, I know you are. :D Even Chuck Dixon's part of Nightwing doesn't stand up to what he did on Robin. And the fact is...high-school superhero hits more popular demographics than superhero/cop. That said, if a Robin series worked, a spinoff Nightwing one would be great. Anything good so that I can ignore Smallville. :sad:

Okay, I don't want to be in the position of crapping on your idea. If there was a Robin series I would watch it and enjoy it. I just think a Nightwing series would have a better chance of getting made.

Robin is Batman's sidekick. How would you explain him not being around? It kind of works in the Teen Titans cartoons because you can explain it away as basically where Robin hangs out on the weekends. It works in the Robin and the Titan's comic for the same reason, these are Robin's side adventures when he's not helping Batman.

Without the Titans, though, Robin doesn't really have a strong independent identity outside of the Batman family. And even in Titans I found the total bat embargo annoying. Should have been some guest appearances.

Also, its not like the last time anyone saw Burt Ward in green panties was in the 1960s. That show has been one of the most popular ones in syndication and still what most people associate with Robin. Nobody except a few comic nerds and hardcore DCAU fans know who Tim Drake is.

[Sage Shinigami]

Okay, I don't want to be in the position of crapping on your idea. If there was a Robin series I would watch it and enjoy it. I just think a Nightwing series would have a better chance of getting made.

Robin is Batman's sidekick. How would you explain him not being around? It kind of works in the Teen Titans cartoons because you can explain it away as basically where Robin hangs out on the weekends. It works in the Robin and the Titan's comic for the same reason, these are Robin's side adventures when he's not helping Batman.

Without the Titans, though, Robin doesn't really have a strong independent identity outside of the Batman family. And even in Titans I found the total bat embargo annoying. Should have been some guest appearances.

Also, its not like the last time anyone saw Burt Ward in green panties was in the 1960s. That show has been one of the most popular ones in syndication and still what most people associate with Robin. Nobody except a few comic nerds and hardcore DCAU fans know who Tim Drake is.

See no offense but it seems like a problem you yourself have as far as the cartoon and the comics go. Robin has more appearances in comics with Batman not around than he does with him. Been that way for a while now--that's pretty much how he got his own monthly. I mean, he IS part of the Dynamic Duo but the truth is he's as much his own superhero as he is Bats's sidekick. That's pretty much why I brought him up instead of Nightwing.


And even though Batman was in pretty heavy syndication for a long time, the fact is all his modern appearances have him as a guy suited up just like Batman, not with that silly outfit from the 40's. Nobody knows who Tim Drake is but then if you ask certain people they don't even know who Batman is. Again, I'm STILL not sure why comic fans like to pretend like we have to stick to the Silver Age whenever a new show is being made. If other shows can introduce brand-new characters, why can't we?

[jv2k]

Yea it wouldn't even be given a chance to air. If it were to be given a chance it would bomb. Whether you like it or not mainstream audiences don't want to watch a TV show about Robin. Robin himself is seen as a sidekick and I'm sure most people would see promos for the show and wonder why the show isn't about Batman instead.

Just because Tim has his own book and has played a major roll in Young justice-Teen Titans doesn't mean he could survive a TV show.

[Sage Shinigami]

Yea it wouldn't even be given a chance to air. If it were to be given a chance it would bomb. Whether you like it or not mainstream audiences don't want to watch a TV show about Robin. Robin himself is seen as a sidekick and I'm sure most people would see promos for the show and wonder why the show isn't about Batman instead.

Just because Tim has his own book and has played a major roll in Young justice-Teen Titans doesn't mean he could survive a TV show.

You could be right--you could be wrong. You can't really prove that, but okay.

[Beyond Batman]

I think a Robin series would be great. He's a very compelling character with a lot of dimension.

[Neo Ultra Mike]

Oh yeah a Robin TV Series. I can just see it now...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1sfMQE_feg

But seriously I'm not sure it could work. I mean yeah there's a whole lot of chance with teenage angst but as DR. MID.NITE mentoned if Batman would be tied up due to Movie deals then I really don't see it working. I mean Robin needs someone to bounce off with in some kind of team dynamic. If it was just Robin then why not just have a Nightwing TV series? That would be more interesting to me. I mean people wouldn't complain as much about the Batman connection if Bats wasn't there and it could house a different set of villians for Nightwing to battle and could still have a lot of upper teenage/ young adult angst in addition to some dark action scenes. That could work actually. Probably won't get greenlit ever but it's an idea with legs at least.

[Robin2099]

About the only way I could see this working would be if they have Tim go to college in order to get him as far away from Bat's as possible. But even then, I don't think it would work because Robin is seen as a secondary sidekick character, and most people wouldn't be interested in seeing him without Bat's in a series. Now if they spun it off from a live action Batman tv series maybe, but a Robin solo series wouldn't work. Doing Nightwing would be easier as it takes place in a diffrent town, and most people don't realize that Nightwing is the original Robin.