Jon Stewart's origin

[grimlock321]

i was thinking today that jon is the only one of the seven we dont get an origin for. supes and bats are obvious, wonder woman and j'onn from the first jl episode, flash from the dream sequence/ flashback from the first grodd episode and hawkgirl well she's a traitor so who cares. anyway, jon doesnt have a beginning. he shows up in the first jl just doing his job. its explained a little in hearts and minds as to his training but not how he got the ring. in the comics he's the backup to hal jordan, but theres no hal in the dcau. and kyle kind of has hal's story but that wont work because clearly jon was lanterning before kyle. so any ideas? or proof to prove me wrong?

[GregX]

He was born Jonathan Stuart Leibowitz in New York City, but grew up in New Jersey. He went to the College of William and Mary in Williamsburg, Virginia where he smoked a lot of pot.

He became a stand-up comic and married his girlfriend Tracey McShane and eventually had two children.

Today he hosts the "Daily Show with Jon Stewart".

[grimlock321]

ok ok, i mean JOHN Stewart. Green Lantern 2814-2 of Earth

[Yojimbo]

ok ok, i mean JOHN Stewart. Green Lantern 2814-2 of Earth

It was mostly in dialogue. He grew during the Cold War (A Better World), grew up in the inner city, recognized for his potential (In Blackest Night), read comic books at his uncle's (Legends) and fought in Vietnam (Metamorphosis).

[John Cage]

You can fill in the blanks from what's been revealed about him -- grew up in an urban neighborhood, enlisted in the Marines (but was probably too young to have served in Vietnam -- he'd have to be pushing sixty if that were the case), was bestowed the power ring, trained with Katma, did a tour on Oa, his 2814 replacement Abin Sur was killed and replaced by Kyle Rayner, Kyle went to Oa to train and John returned to Earth...

It would have been nice if GL and Flash were given clear origins, but there was enough info given to fill in the blanks. And in John's case, it was pretty simple: The Guardians thought he was worthy of the ring, so they gave him the power ring. And the fact that the 2814 protecting gig has been filled for a while means "Col. Hal Jordan" (as seen in "In Brightest Day") was probably never a GL (except in the alternate time-line from "Once and Future Thing").

Have a good day.
John Cage

[BigFatHairyDeal]

That STAS introduced Kyle and JL ran with Stewart was enough evidence for me that the title or mantle of Green Lantern is more important that the individual character himself. As such, I treat "In Brightest Day" as a suitable superhero origin for Earth's Green Lantern, and as others mentioned, Stewart's personal background is sufficiently covered through dialogue here and there.

[grimlock321]

its not so much about his life history that im curious about, but the turning point where he gets the ring. im not completely sure how it went down in the comics but my understanding was that he was a replacement for hal. since dcau doesnt have a hal i just wondered how he was annointed with the green lantern ring. flash has that chemical explosion/ lightning, wonderwoman has the bracelets, i was just curious what John's turning point was.

[Ed Liu]

I think you can pretty much replace "DCU Hal" with "DCAU John Stewart" in whatever DC universe origin you like and pretty much have it all work out OK.

Origin stories are also incredibly overrated and largely unnecessary, IMO, but that's another story.

-- Ed

[Toddman]

It was mostly in dialogue. He grew during the Cold War (A Better World), grew up in the inner city, recognized for his potential (In Blackest Night), read comic books at his uncle's (Legends) and fought in Vietnam (Metamorphosis).

Well, he was in the Marines, yeah, but I doubt he fought in Vietnam. That conflict ended over 30 years ago and had he fought in that war, Stewart would be in his early to mid-50's, which seems unlikely.

Toddman

[Alex Weitzman]

Arguably speaking, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to think of John as a Gulf War vet.

If that's too new (remembering the fifteen years served as a Lantern), perhaps one of the Reagan-era military events.

[Toddman]

Arguably speaking, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to think of John as a Gulf War vet.

If that's too new (remembering the fifteen years served as a Lantern), perhaps one of the Reagan-era military events.

Maybe he was involved in the 51 grueling days of the Invasion of Grenda...;)


Toddman

[John Cage]

It's probably a sliding-scale sort of thing -- if he was a GL for fifteen years from this point, then he probably served in the Gulf War. A few years down the line, it's probably Kosovo, then Iraq... Think Tony Stark and the reshuffling of his back story as time passes. At the time the JL crew revealed that part of John's backstory, he was intended to have served in a mid-80s conflict.

Have a good day.
John Cage

[Toddman]

At the time the JL crew revealed that part of John's backstory, he was intended to have served in a mid-80s conflict.


Actually, is there any evidence that he saw combat in the service at all? He could have been enlisted during peacetime.


Toddman

[Bird Boy]

since dcau doesnt have a hal i just wondered how he was annointed with the green lantern ring.

There's a Hal. How he's directly related in the actual DCAU I don't know, but through some time travel and temporal flux stuff he popped up. :p

As for if John saw combat, he's a bit of a hardass to not have seen it. I know bootcamp is rough, but he seems like the kind that'd need to see combat to turn from the nice guy persona he has for Vixen to the hardcore one he has 24/7. Then again, John killing, even for his country, is kind of hard to imagine.

Man I haven't debate character origins in awhile. This brings back memories...

-BB

[Wolf Boy2]

Then again, John killing, even for his country, is kind of hard to imagine.

Dude ... "Savage Time"? We freakin' saw him shoot a Nazi out of a tree and not even care.

BTW, was he in "Crisis on Infinite Earths"? 'Cuz I was reading Crisis today, and I saw a black GL with a mask -- but I know I heard B.T. say that John Stewart never wore a mask. Was this a different GL or was B.T. (gasp) wrong?

[BCVM22]

BTW, was he in "Crisis on Infinite Earths"? 'Cuz I was reading Crisis today, and I saw a black GL with a mask -- but I know I heard B.T. say that John Stewart never wore a mask. Was this a different GL or was B.T. (gasp) wrong?

A little of both. John was indeed involved in the Crisis, and John's very early comic book costumes did include the classic Lantern domino mask, but his secret identity was revealed almost immediately after he became a Lantern and subsequent designs eschewed the mask and left his face uncovered. Why he had the mask at the time of the Crisis, I'm not 100% sure.

[Bird Boy]

Dude ... "Savage Time"? We freakin' saw him shoot a Nazi out of a tree and not even care.

Everyone was killing in that one though.

And really. Nazi's. :p

-BB

[BigFatHairyDeal]

Dude ... "Savage Time"? We freakin' saw him shoot a Nazi out of a tree and not even care.


Technically, we see him shoot the gun out of the Nazi soldier's hands, and the soldier then falls off.
http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/8945/shot0001sy8.jpg

So maybe you could argue that John cares so much about killing, he took the time to aim for the soldier's gun instead of the soldier himself??

[Nightwing]

So maybe you could argue that John cares so much about killing, he took the time to aim for the soldier's gun instead of the soldier himself??

Possibly. But that's a separate topic of deep debate, which was brought up in a thread about our JL members killing a few months ago. Maybe John was responsible for that shot landing the way it did. Maybe the fact that it's a cartoon show with part of its demographic being children was responsible for that shot landing the way it did.

I look at it like the Joker falling off a building into the bay. Instead of being constricting, it's open for interpretation. And that's an excellent way to do certain story pieces because so many different people have so many different ways of thinking and interpreting things.

What this thread made me think of is a question I'd like us to think about. If the creators were so gun ho about getting John in the Green Lantern spot, then why wasn't there a more focused and upfront storytelling method used for where he comes from?

I think maybe the story of the straight arrow is so straight forward he didn't really need one.

[Ed Liu]

Technically, we see him shoot the gun out of the Nazi soldier's hands, and the soldier then falls off.

If you want to talk about any kind of realism, that ain't never gonna happen. Nobody ever aims for the weapon because way too many things can go wrong trying to shoot a gun out of someone's hands. The other thing is that John Stewart was supposed to be from the U.S. Marine Corps. They are many things, but squeamish about killing the enemy is really not one of them.

As far as I'm concerned, John put that bullet center-mass through that Nazi in the tree. I'm inclined to agree with Nightwing's assessment of why the shot was depicted the way it was (i.e., requirement of a young-adult/teenager cartoon).


What this thread made me think of is a question I'd like us to think about. If the creators were so gun ho about getting John in the Green Lantern spot, then why wasn't there a more focused and upfront storytelling method used for where he comes from?

I think maybe the story of the straight arrow is so straight forward he didn't really need one.

That's what I always figured (see above comment about how origin stories are highly overrated). We get enough clues in-context to tell us all we need to know about John Stewart's "origin." Same is true about the Flash on JL, too.

Besides, if you think about it, the closest we ever got to a definitive origin sequence for Batman was the time it was incorporated into the opening credits for TNBSA. Nobody ever seems to think anything in Batman's characterization is lacking for that omission.

-- Ed

[BigFatHairyDeal]

Possibly. But that's a separate topic of deep debate, which was brought up in a thread about our JL members killing a few months ago. Maybe John was responsible for that shot landing the way it did. Maybe the fact that it's a cartoon show with part of its demographic being children was responsible for that shot landing the way it did.



If you want to talk about any kind of realism, that ain't never gonna happen. Nobody ever aims for the weapon because way too many things can go wrong trying to shoot a gun out of someone's hands. The other thing is that John Stewart was supposed to be from the U.S. Marine Corps. They are many things, but squeamish about killing the enemy is really not one of them.

As far as I'm concerned, John put that bullet center-mass through that Nazi in the tree. I'm inclined to agree with Nightwing's assessment of why the shot was depicted the way it was (i.e., requirement of a young-adult/teenager cartoon).

-- Ed

Yeah, I agree. It was animated that way because it's a Y7 show. I also believe I read that the intent was that the soldier was killed by the shot. I'm inclined to believe that happened. There's no soldier impractical (stupid?) enough to aim for a 3-inch target in a combat situation when he's been trained to hit a guy square in the chest. My post was meant to be facetious.

However, just to throw some contradictory ideas out there, maybe John was aiming for the soldier, but it hit the gun instead.

Or maybe he was aiming for the gun, and he's just that good of a shot. Why not? This is the same DCAU that claims Batman can disarm multiple gangsters with one quick flick of a Batarang. Green Arrow's marksmanship is rather uncanny, too...

Yeah, that last paragraph is being facetious, too.

[90'sCartoonMan]

That's what I always figured (see above comment about how origin stories are highly overrated). We get enough clues in-context to tell us all we need to know about John Stewart's "origin." Same is true about the Flash on JL, too.

Besides, if you think about it, the closest we ever got to a definitive origin sequence for Batman was the time it was incorporated into the opening credits for TNBSA. Nobody ever seems to think anything in Batman's characterization is lacking for that omission.

Well, Batman had flashbacks and then got to put on the costume in Mask of the Phantasm. I'd say if anyone got shafted, it was Superman, since we didn't see Clark actually become Superman.

Although it seems a little odd, I kind of like this method the DCAU uses. They introduce the character after they've had their origin moments, and we try to piece together their past. It's not just John. John just happens to be the biggest mystery considering what we saw with Kyle and Hal's non-existent role (and who knows whether or not Alan Scott exists, his son sure does, but that could have nothing to do with John becoming GL anyway).

[Wolf Boy2]

The shot happens so fast that I never even noticed he hit the gun. Unless you freeze-frame it, he appears to be shooting the man. Keep in mind this is the same DCAU where the mobsters in "Feet of Clay" shot a sign down on Lucius Fox instead of just shooting Lucius Fox (and they had FULL intention of killing him). It's a cartoon ... they can only get away with so much.


I'd say if anyone got shafted, it was Superman, since we didn't see Clark actually become Superman.
You know, I'd never even noticed that. A guy putting on blue tights isn't that exciting.

Now Black Canary putting on her tights .... I'd watch that one over and over.:cool:

[Yojimbo]

Well, he was in the Marines, yeah, but I doubt he fought in Vietnam. That conflict ended over 30 years ago and had he fought in that war, Stewart would be in his early to mid-50's, which seems unlikely.

Toddman

Good point. I think at some point when Rex was revealed to be his child, I threw logic out the window.

But I did ask Dwayne McDuffie about the Lords' GL's line about "the world blowing up" and he confirmed that Stewart did grow up in the Cold War era...he is probably in his 30's when JL starts.

[Nightwing]

Besides, if you think about it, the closest we ever got to a definitive origin sequence for Batman was the time it was incorporated into the opening credits for TNBSA. Nobody ever seems to think anything in Batman's characterization is lacking for that omission.

Aha, a very interesting point.


Well, Batman had flashbacks and then got to put on the costume in Mask of the Phantasm. I'd say if anyone got shafted, it was Superman, since we didn't see Clark actually become Superman.

Also true. And I'm the biggest Animated Superman fan in the world and I didn't even think of that.



But I did ask Dwayne McDuffie about the Lords' GL's line about "the world blowing up" and he confirmed that Stewart did grow up in the Cold War era...he is probably in his 30's when JL starts.

I don't really follow this kind of thing, when I ask myself these questions. When it comes to the answers to every single one of our continuity and character questions do we always directly ask the creator(s) and take their exact word for it, let alone after asking once, and only that one time?

This particular John Stewart example isn't one of those less-than-solid instances, but I think certain details are thought up by the creators because the story needs to mention them. And certain details are left out because they aren't needed at that point, thus leaving them open to fall into that first category when another project is started.

It reminds me of my Buffy and Angel. In the beginning, it was said (in season 2) that Spike was turned into a vampire by Angel. After a few years, it was decided to be changed to Drusilla turning Spike into a vampire, and as a result, there was a much stronger link between all the characters.

[Alph]

I always regret that it wasn't John Stewart who was introduced in "In Brightest Day". It would have been way better if we were introduced to him in STAS. Besides, I always thought Kyle's intro was hokey (he just happened to work at the same company as Clark? Please.) Seeing John Stewart's origin would have been much more satisfying.

[BCVM22]

Besides, I always thought Kyle's intro was hokey (he just happened to work at the same company as Clark? Please.) Seeing John Stewart's origin would have been much more satisfying.

It wasn't that hokey. Kyle was an artist in the comics, and since I believe the S:TAS crew was told to use Kyle by the higher-ups (since he was still relatively new in the comics at the time), they did the best with what they had. An artist at a newspaper isn't that big of a stretch, and if you're going to have him work as an artist at a newspaper in Metropolis, hey, they only seem to read one in that city.

[Alph]

It wasn't that hokey. Kyle was an artist in the comics, and since I believe the S:TAS crew was told to use Kyle by the higher-ups (since he was still relatively new in the comics at the time), they did the best with what they had. An artist at a newspaper isn't that big of a stretch, and if you're going to have him work as an artist at a newspaper in Metropolis, hey, they only seem to read one in that city.
I just don't think it had to take place in Metropolis. And it's too bad they were forced to use Kyle, because now that episode has no real meaning or use, since the only payoff is a cameo scene in "The Return". Whereas it would be gratifying to watch now if it had been about John.

[BCVM22]

I just don't think it had to take place in Metropolis. And it's too bad they were forced to use Kyle, because now that episode has no real meaning or use, since the only payoff is a cameo scene in "The Return". Whereas it would be gratifying to watch now if it had been about John.

I disagree. If nothing else, the episode introduced the concept of the Green Lanterns to the DCAU. Regardless of which Lantern they used when, if they hadn't done the episode, John's first appearance in Secret Origins would have prompted a response of "A Green Lantern? I didn't know this universe had those!" As it stands, most fans were able to infer that for whatever reason, John was the new Lantern of Sector 2814, Kyle wasn't available for whatever in-story reason, and the series went from there. And either way, it was only one episode. How one additional episode of John in a series aired 2 years earlier would have been any more gratifying is beyond me.

[BigFatHairyDeal]

Regardless of which Lantern they used when, if they hadn't done the episode, John's first appearance in Secret Origins would have prompted a response of "A Green Lantern? I didn't know this universe had those!"

That's mostly true, except Hawkgirl's appearance didn't have such explanation.

[Alph]

I disagree. If nothing else, the episode introduced the concept of the Green Lanterns to the DCAU. Regardless of which Lantern they used when, if they hadn't done the episode, John's first appearance in Secret Origins would have prompted a response of "A Green Lantern? I didn't know this universe had those!" As it stands, most fans were able to infer that for whatever reason, John was the new Lantern of Sector 2814, Kyle wasn't available for whatever in-story reason, and the series went from there. And either way, it was only one episode. How one additional episode of John in a series aired 2 years earlier would have been any more gratifying is beyond me.

Were you around here when JL first aired? Because half the topics about John were "what the heck happened to Kyle?", whereas had "In Brightest Day" not aired all, the Green Lantern Corps would have been established in the very second episode of Justice League, and no one would have reason to assume that anyone but John was the Green Lantern of earth.


As for why an episode showing John's origin would be more gratifying than an episode showing the origin of some random dude who we never get to know...I can't see how that isn't obvious.

[Sue]

Because, like the other JL members who didn't get one, "origin episode" trivia can be inferred from watching the series. When did he become a Corpsman? He said 15 years ago in Secret Origins, which aired in 2001, so let's say 1986. Where did he come from? In Blackest Night showed us that. Family? He mentions his grandmother in Comfort & Joy and Starcrossed. His job? Several episodes (Savage Time, Only a Dream, etc.) show that he's a Marine. One of the few things we don't know are the circumstances under which he got the ring. Like Kyle, perhaps it searched out a random guy it deemed suitable, and John was apparently it.

[Toddman]

When did he become a Corpsman? He said 15 years ago in Secret Origins, which aired in 2001, so let's say 1986.

I don't remember him saying that in "Secret Origins" (or any other episode).


Toddman

[Yojimbo]

That's mostly true, except Hawkgirl's appearance didn't have such explanation.

I think "Twilight" and "Starcrossed" sealed the deal about her appearance. But to solidify it, I think she met Stewart and was on patrol with him when J'onn made telepathic contact with everyone unless there's some loop hole to telepathy and Thanagarian minds that I can't recall at the moment.

[Sue]

I don't remember him saying that in "Secret Origins" (or any other episode).


ToddmanI remember it (but it could also be me getting old :sweat: ). I'm gonna have my own JL/U marathon, so I'll check it out.

[Wolf Boy2]

I saw the Kyle episode as a kid back in 1997 or 1998. I thought it was cool.

I saw JL for the first time in 2004. I noticed that GL was black, but I didn't really care. I always thought they needed a diversity token, and GL was the only one who could be swapped for a black character (since there is no black Superman, Batman or Wonder Chick).

Also, Kyle would've been too much like Flash.

I guess I liked John, so I never gave a care about his origin. I was like, "Oh, cool guy. Okay."