Toei Animation Creates In-House Licensing Division for U.S. Market [Archive]

Quarkboy

05-14-2007, 04:29 PM

They already have/had? a US division. Did they close it after Slam Dunk flailed miserably? I know they have tried on their own before.

After the previous Toei in the US debacle, they essentially shut down their office in LA. They didn't CLOSE it, however, or erase the division completely.

With the relaunch of the website a month or so ago, it was obvious something new was in the works and this story seems to confirm it. We'll probably get more details in mid-June during the official announcement.

The reason Toei animation is trying this again is that they clearly think they can make more money for themselves by marketing directly in the US instead of through licensors. And they'd be right, assuming they don't totally screw up like last time. They might simply be focusing on properties (like Pretty Cure) that have actual TV kids potential.

Here's another interesting link, even if you don't read Japanese, you can get a lot of interesting info from it:http://www.toei-anim.co.jp/corporate/ir/ksn_pdf/20070125_presen.pdf

It's a powerpoint presentation from January on Toei's overall business strategy. There's a large section of it about the overseas market, including a full chart of where around the world its properties have aired.

What's most interesting is how they specifically separate their "kihonteki na" (fundamental basis) anime from their other products. I think it's clear from this strategy that they are only looking at the US market for their basis anime, not really their more otaku oriented stuff. There is also quite an interesting slide about the evolution of anime watching from a "family event" to a "personal event" and how their company has adapted to that.

Beat

05-14-2007, 04:39 PM

Not again...this feels like a bad movie sequel.

Rolling Cloud

05-14-2007, 04:44 PM

Mononoke & Mononoke-hime are different things.

That makes sense! :sweat: Thanks for clearing that up!

Weatherman

05-14-2007, 04:48 PM

After the previous Toei in the US debacle, they essentially shut down their office in LA. They didn't CLOSE it, however, or erase the division completely.

With the relaunch of the website a month or so ago, it was obvious something new was in the works and this story seems to confirm it. We'll probably get more details in mid-June during the official announcement.

The reason Toei animation is trying this again is that they clearly think they can make more money for themselves by marketing directly in the US instead of through licensors. And they'd be right, assuming they don't totally screw up like last time. They might simply be focusing on properties (like Pretty Cure) that have actual TV kids potential.

Here's another interesting link, even if you don't read Japanese, you can get a lot of interesting info from it:http://www.toei-anim.co.jp/corporate/ir/ksn_pdf/20070125_presen.pdf

It's a powerpoint presentation from January on Toei's overall business strategy. There's a large section of it about the overseas market, including a full chart of where around the world its properties have aired.

What's most interesting is how they specifically separate their "kihonteki na" (fundamental basis) anime from their other products. I think it's clear from this strategy that they are only looking at the US market for their basis anime, not really their more otaku oriented stuff. There is also quite an interesting slide about the evolution of anime watching from a "family event" to a "personal event" and how their company has adapted to that.

Ahh, so it's a relaunch. No wonder they yanked Sailor Moon away from the rights holders. They want to relaunch it themselves with the live action version at the forefront. 10 bucks says they crash and burn again by this time next year.

Quarkboy

05-14-2007, 05:12 PM

Ahh, so it's a relaunch. No wonder they yanked Sailor Moon away from the rights holders. They want to relaunch it themselves with the live action version at the forefront. 10 bucks says they crash and burn again by this time next year.

You've got the source wrong for the sailor moon anime. That's being blocked by the creator herself, supposedly, and not by Toei. As for the live action... Even I don't think that Toei is THAT clueless.

Rolling Cloud

05-14-2007, 05:23 PM

You've got the source wrong for the sailor moon anime. That's being blocked by the creator herself, supposedly, and not by Toei.

Naoko-senpai blocked Sailor moon from being aired? They must have screwed up big time!

Quarkboy

05-14-2007, 06:29 PM

Naoko-senpai blocked Sailor moon from being aired? They must have screwed up big time!

According to what I've read on these forums an elsewhere, Takeuchi sensei is currently in dispute with Toei over the franchise, and it's basically a money issue (she wants more of it). I also read that she didn't like the anime version and that there are branding issues.

Perhaps this is all resolved in the past months, and indeed this is the beginning of the world-wide relaunch of the Sailor Moon franchise, headlined by the Live Action version. But I really, really doubt it.

Pomegranate

05-14-2007, 07:15 PM

If Toei is trying to market to North America by themselves this time, then why did they ever license Digimon back to Disney and One Piece to FUNi:confused: ?

They should just work exclusively with good anime-dubbing companies like FUNi, Bandai, Geneon or ADV, if they ever want to survive in the business world. They can never do anything right by themselves, no matter how hard they try.

Weatherman

05-14-2007, 08:34 PM

You've got the source wrong for the sailor moon anime. That's being blocked by the creator herself, supposedly, and not by Toei. As for the live action... Even I don't think that Toei is THAT clueless.

Hunh, I had not heard that before.

I was always under the impression that Toei themselves yanked the license so they could get control of the property again and try to do something with the LA version.

Judging by Toei's general aptitude for selling their stuff over here, yes they are that clueless. They did almost the exact opposite of Kadokawa, who worked with people who know what they're doing to get their stuff out.

Rolling Cloud

05-14-2007, 08:47 PM

According to what I've read on these forums an elsewhere, Takeuchi sensei is currently in dispute with Toei over the franchise, and it's basically a money issue (she wants more of it). I also read that she didn't like the anime version and that there are branding issues.

Perhaps this is all resolved in the past months, and indeed this is the beginning of the world-wide relaunch of the Sailor Moon franchise, headlined by the Live Action version. But I really, really doubt it.

Makes sense. I read somewhere that she could deal with Rei's personality being changed from manga -> Anime, but even manga-kas have their limits.

Karl Olson

05-14-2007, 11:11 PM

Well, the question is whether this is Kadokawa thing where they setup a US branch but really leave the grunt work up to a US licensing and production company, or whether they think they've learned their mistakes from messing up so badly last time and are having another go at it.

I mean, it's really easy for them to make money with the shows they have; they just need to everything FUNimation does it terms of quality control, translation, dubbing, marketing and so on (as FUNimation is #1 in the US.) Emulate the best, try to if anything take what the best company does and do it better or do it at the quality for less, and you'll win the day.

FlyByNite77

05-15-2007, 02:02 AM

So if they plan to market directly to the US market say hello to Japanese prices for DVD releases here.

Quarkboy

05-15-2007, 04:49 AM

So if they plan to market directly to the US market say hello to Japanese prices for DVD releases here.

Well, not if history means anything. The one thing that Toei actually got RIGHT about its previous attempt to market things directly was the pricing: All their DVDs retailed for $29.99 with 4 eps per DVD.

Also, keep in mind that Toei is all about the large anime market for kids in general. Bandai Visual (who I presume you are referencing with the price quote) is targeting super otaku who will pay anything for fancy liner notes and shiny boxes. I highly doubt Toei will screw up on the price. They might screw up on the dubbing, or the subtitling, or the packaging, or the marketing, or the distributing... but probably not the pricing :).

Conan-san

05-15-2007, 05:16 AM

Honestly? They could do a little worse than last time.

According to what I've read on these forums an elsewhere, Takeuchi sensei is currently in dispute with Toei over the franchise, and it's basically a money issue (she wants more of it). I also read that she didn't like the anime version and that there are branding issues.I'd want more money too if some company made a total mess of the cast of my property and thus made it unsellable to other countries.

HellCat

05-15-2007, 05:43 AM

I think I have a copy of their business charts here...

1. Give US fans a lobotomy
2. Release our shoddy merchandise
3. Profit!

Conan-san

05-15-2007, 06:00 AM

I think I have a copy of their business charts here...

1. Give US fans a lobotomy
2. Release our shoddy merchandise
3. Profit!

You forget point 2.5: Screw the united kingdom, it's got the same language but *£&$(£ them. Europe is only fun when it's french or german.

Dark Fact

05-15-2007, 12:24 PM

I wonder if this means we may get a relaunch on such titles like Air Master and Slam Dunk? Toei really left those who bought those DVDs in the dust and the fans of those series haven't forgiven them for that debacle.

I hope this Coy Edmunds that they got in charge of marketing will do a good job with the DVDs although I'm a little perplexed as to why a sports promoter would be shilling anime? :rolleyes:

I also hope that if things finally go right, we may see ALL of Sailor Moon released as well as some classic properties like Mazinger and Cutey Honey.

veemonjosh

05-15-2007, 03:11 PM

If Toei is trying to market to North America by themselves this time, then why did they ever license Digimon back to Disney and One Piece to FUNi:confused: ?

I assume the Digimon thing was that Toei let Disney have first dibs at Savers because they already own the rest of the Digimon anime series (minus X-Evolution).

And why is Funimation getting One Piece a BAD thing?

I also hope that if things finally go right, we may see ALL of Sailor Moon released as well as some classic properties like Mazinger and Cutey Honey.

We really need Dr. Slump as well. :sweat:

Pomegranate

05-16-2007, 05:31 AM

I assume the Digimon thing was that Toei let Disney have first dibs at Savers because they already own the rest of the Digimon anime series (minus X-Evolution).

Yeah, that's what I thought as well, but still, they should've gave a decent dubbing company, like Bandai, the license to Savers instead.

And why is Funimation getting One Piece a BAD thing?

I'm not saying that FUNi getting One Piece is a bad thing! I was only wondering why Toei is still licensing their own properties to other companies, if they've claimed they were going to market to North America all by themselves.

Karl Olson

05-16-2007, 07:40 PM

I'm not saying that FUNi getting One Piece is a bad thing! I was only wondering why Toei is still licensing their own properties to other companies, if they've claimed they were going to market to North America all by themselves.

Well, they might be setting up to do a Kadokawa thing where they work with various partners on production and distribution (which would be fine as long as they are as American-Fan-Centric as possible, like Kadokawa seems to be.) I mean, in-house is vague. If it's truly in-house (rather than just a means of simplifying licensing by forcing the distributors/producers to be just distributor/producers, not N.American rights-holders as well,) they need to steal as much talent from existing anime licensing and dubbing companies as possible to ensure that they don't screw up.

Which may be part of why Digimon went to Disney and One Piece went to Funi - Toei may not trust themselves not screw those shows up entirely, so it's better to leave it to companies who relative to Toei know what they're doing. Toei knows Funi makes shonen titles sell (see: DBZ, Hakusho) and they know Disney is atleast compitant with Digimon (yes, we know other studios would handle it better, but Toei isn't that bright. If they had that much knowledge, they'd have never ever worked with 4kids.)

pokemonfan500

05-16-2007, 08:04 PM

Karl Olson your totally wrong Toei can handle Digimon good atleast they wouldnt treat it like crap like Disney will

AstroNerdBoy

05-16-2007, 09:37 PM

I don't know, for some reason I see more anime coming over with Western names and greater attempts to hide the Japanese aspects of the titles. I could be way wrong, but we'll see.

Karl Olson

05-16-2007, 10:03 PM

Karl Olson your totally wrong Toei can handle Digimon good atleast they wouldnt treat it like crap like Disney will

You must have missed Toei's incredibly failed attempt at doing their own localization. It was just as bad if not worse that anything I've ever seen Disney or 4kids ever do at their respective worst. Toei's previous attempt being their own company outstandingly terrible. Easily some of the worst R1 Anime DVDs ever put out.

Not mention the fact that Cloverway (that dubbed Sailor Moon post-Saban) was also a Toei sub-company, and also did a mediocre (at best) job of dubbing Sailor Moon.

Trust me, Toei's track record to date in the US is loaded with shoddy work, over-localization and terrible business decisions.

Toei either better have learned their lessons, or they're just going to ruin a few more shows, at which point they may poison US retailers on anything Toei-related for a long time.

Pomegranate

05-17-2007, 12:13 AM

You must have missed Toei's incredibly failed attempt at doing their own localization. It was just as bad if not worse that anything I've ever seen Disney or 4kids ever do at their respective worst. Toei's previous attempt being their own company outstandingly terrible. Easily some of the worst R1 Anime DVDs ever put out.

Not mention the fact that Cloverway (that dubbed Sailor Moon post-Saban) was also a Toei sub-company, and also did a mediocre (at best) job of dubbing Sailor Moon.

Trust me, Toei's track record to date in the US is loaded with shoddy work, over-localization and terrible business decisions.

Toei either better have learned their lessons, or they're just going to ruin a few more shows, at which point they may poison US retailers on anything Toei-related for a long time.

Amen;) ! They need to learn from their mistakes immediately, otherwise they deserved to be gobbled up by someone, like Time Warner or Dentsu.

Quarkboy

05-17-2007, 01:05 AM

Just FYI, having read Toei's most recent quarterly fiscal report (in japanese), I really think that this office is here to stay. It's one of 4 worldwide offices (they have one in Hong Kong, and one in europe, too) that they are focusing on, and indeed it's half of their business plan moving forward.

To paraphrase from their overall business plan, they are going to become a "global animation company" by putting "high priority" into the licensing and television airing of their properties around the entire world. It's the most talked about thing in their entire portfolio. I.e. I think the company is really pushing this all the way from the very top, it's not some experiment that they might quit from.

Of course, this comes in a year when domestic profits were down for the company, so perhaps it is natural to tell stock holders (Toei is a publicly traded company on the japanese stock market) that they are looking for growth outside of Japan. But I really get the sense that they are serious about attempting to become a "global animation company", ala Disney.

Karl Olson

05-17-2007, 04:20 AM

Amen;) ! They need to learn from their mistakes immediately, otherwise they deserved to be gobbled up by someone, like Time Warner or Dentsu.

Well, they'd have to really screw up huge to be bought out - they are the biggest anime company in Japan IIRC, so they won't fall easily, but they need to make sure that they aren't creating money sinks by reaching abroad, and that means having having DVDs that atleast match what smaller publishers like CPM and Media Blasters do, preferably matching the hyper-gloss, fan-friendly releases of FUNimation, and the anime they have that are broadcast need to be run with as little editing and changes as the network airing it will allow (preferably sticking to a mass-market network that's lenient on editing, like Cartoon Network.)

They also have to be willing admit that some shows they have can't even be volume by volume releases - they need to be reasonably-priced boxsets and sub-only from the start (Sailor Moon, unless it looks leagues better digitally-restored, is one of those titles. The live action also falls under this as live-action is really niche and too expensive to dub well.) If they do that though, they'll make more money than they would otherwise, and they'll build fan loyalty in the process.

Honestly speaking, this is not a hard game to screw up as long as you think "I'm doing what the companies that already make money do here, but even better, and/or at a lower-price point." You'll make money like a bandit, especially with shows like Pretty Cure and Sailor Moon to offer.

Weatherman

05-17-2007, 10:33 AM

I don't think any amount of digital cleanup could make Sailor Moon look much better. A clear image would be great, but the animation is still going to be rather rudimentary, even takign age into acount.

Toei USa is either goin ot have to be a bulk scale box set distributor or they are goign to have to work hand in hand with Funi or ADV or Bandai or someone who knows what they're doing. I would hope they leared their lesson after the embaresing failure last time. It's a oldish saying but, no one screws up anime like the Japanese.

macattack

05-17-2007, 10:35 AM

This is interesting. I hope Toei does a decent job now that they're responsible for all of the properties released here. Judging by some of the information here they might have learned from their previous mistakes and this time their launch might actually be a success.

But it's the end result that matters. Toei has to produce quality dubs (preferably from LA, Texas, or Vancouver) and show they're actually spending some money on the boxes and translation. We don't need something hideous and boringlike the BoBoBo DVD. Give us some extras, too.

asically, as Karl said, the best they can do is imitate Funimation, whose dubs, box sets, and overall quality is usually impressive (though Black Cat is unnaturally light on the extras).

ObeliskNoKami

05-17-2007, 01:26 PM

Does this mean that Slam Dunk fans can look forward to adding another version of this (http://www.estarland.com/images/products/12/22312/37604.jpg) to their collection?

If so then let me know so I can prepare a handful of confetti to celebrate.

I wonder how many times they will have to re-release it before they actually get it right (that or finally stop being hard-headed morons and get someone to do it right (even if we don't get 4 episodes per DVD *hides*))...o_O?

RayChuang

05-30-2007, 04:31 PM

Karl Olson

05-30-2007, 06:42 PM

I'm definitely way late to this conversation, but why do I have this feeling that Toei's re-opened USA office may be working with 4Kids Entertainment to release Yes! Pretty Cure 5 to the USA market? I think it's not likely we'll see Pretty Cure, Pretty Cure: Max Heart and Pretty Cure: Splash Star in the USA because the relationship between the two main characters in the first three series would be a bit problematical (Americans don't understand the Japanese cultural norm of shoujo-ai, where girls have unusual strong, close friendships--it's nearly like the relationship between Haruka and Michiru from the 3rd and 5th seasons of Bishoujo Senshi Sailormoon).

4Kids has supposedly sworn off anime, so I think that's out (I imagine their main investors on the board of directors probably see anime as a waste of money, so if Al wants to keep his job, anime is out.) Besides, they were supposedly working on the first series with out issue, so I think in general, 4Kids is off anime, or if they aren't (I doubt it,) they'll atleast finish the first series first - they sunk way too much time and money into it to not try recouping it, if in fact they are going to bother with it at all.

However, would Toei be perhaps prone to pushing Cure 5 themselves over the previous titles? Yep, and it's a darn shame too. Pretty Cure in any iteration is pretty generic shojo henshin hero shlock, but at least in terms of the duo dynamic and the outfit design, the first two series had a certain freshness to them (Splash didn't seem as interesting to me, and 5 is Sailor Moon Redux.) The nice animation and boarding for the fights (which really evoked a good shonen action series-vibe,) were also welcome.

Now, I won't say that doesn't mean that one of the Toei US branch projects will be collaborating with US partners. In fact, now that I think about it, Toei might also be setting up here in part to help CN with PPGZ. If so, that could get interesting. Whether it gets watchable or entertaining might be a whole other question though. :sweat:

RayChuang

05-31-2007, 12:20 AM

However, would Toei be perhaps prone to pushing Cure 5 themselves over the previous titles? Yep, and it's a darn shame too. Pretty Cure in any iteration is pretty generic shojo henshin hero shlock, but at least in terms of the duo dynamic and the outfit design, the first two series had a certain freshness to them (Splash didn't seem as interesting to me, and 5 is Sailor Moon Redux.) The nice animation and boarding for the fights (which really evoked a good shonen action series-vibe,) were also welcome.

The animation concepts behind the first two Pretty Cure series is actually pretty good, and the boarding for the fights is quite good (after all, director Daisuke Nishio directed many Dragon Ball Z episodes). But like I said earlier, the relationship between Nagisa Misumi and Honoka Yukishiro is going to be difficult to translate for American audiences, since there is an increasingly implied shoujo-ai undertone as we go through the first season and the Max Heart sequel season. I'd like to see the series released through FUNimation and shown as part of Cartoon Network's Toonami programming block in nearly unchanged form.

Quarkboy

05-31-2007, 03:50 AM

The animation concepts behind the first two Pretty Cure series is actually pretty good, and the boarding for the fights is quite good (after all, director Daisuke Nishio directed many Dragon Ball Z episodes). But like I said earlier, the relationship between Nagisa Misumi and Honoka Yukishiro is going to be difficult to translate for American audiences, since there is an increasingly implied shoujo-ai undertone as we go through the first season and the Max Heart sequel season. I'd like to see the series released through FUNimation and shown as part of Cartoon Network's Toonami programming block in nearly unchanged form.

Toei would never consider releasing Yes! Pretty Cure 5 before the first season of Pretty Cure in the states. It wouldn't even occur to them. You have to think more "global market" like they do, where the first season of Pretty Cure has already aired (or is airing) in germany, italy, spain, mexico, taiwan, singapore, malaysia, china.... etc...
Max Heart, the second season, is going to air in italy and germany, if I recall as well. Splash Star has not aired internationally at all. Toei considers the US part of the international market, and I really think it is doubtful they would consider a completely different strategy then the rest of the world.

It doesn't mean that it's the smartest business move, though. I think Yes! Pretty Cure 5 would work pretty well in the states, as it doesn't take place in a particularly "Japanese" world, unlike the first Pretty Cure series that takes place in Wakabadai, a real-life town in Japan.
But I simply don't think Toei has even begun to think about marketing Yes! PC5 outside of Japan.

RayChuang

05-31-2007, 10:17 AM

It doesn't mean that it's the smartest business move, though. I think Yes! Pretty Cure 5 would work pretty well in the states, as it doesn't take place in a particularly "Japanese" world, unlike the first Pretty Cure series that takes place in Wakabadai, a real-life town in Japan.
But I simply don't think Toei has even begun to think about marketing Yes! PC5 outside of Japan.

In my humble opinion, :) the very fact that Yes! Pretty Cure 5 takes place in a distinctly non-Japanese continuity and possibly avoiding the shoujo-ai issues of the earlier series is good reason why I think Pretty Cure 5 WAS written specifically so it could be translated for European and North American distribution with minimal changes. It was a bit of a nightmare to "adapt" the characters of Haruka Ten'ou and Michiri Kaiou for the English-language release of Sailor Moon S, and I don't think Toei wants to go through that debacle again....

In fact, I think Toei may end up with a distribution deal with a company akin to FUNimation to distribute their anime/live-action output.