Does Nintendo's system changes seem a bit too desparate?

[Antiyonder]

This isn't meant to bash Nintendo, I'm just looking for some point of views on the matter. Nintendo is considered to be the best (or one of the best) in game development, but are they doing as well as they think?

I haven't really purchased anything past the N64. I have at a few various point considered a Gamecube, but since Wii was announced I decided against it. See, I figured the N64 end in 5 years because it really wasn't doing so well interms of sales. Yet, the Gamecube which was I believe doing much better was going to be done as far as new Games were concerned. Is the Wii going to be around for a long time, or just another five year system?

Up until now, I would look the other way with the Gameboy systems (which is why I never brought up this topic until now) is because they had the advantage of being compatible with the previous games. That's overall helpful if you want to keep up and not wanting to have a pile of Gameboys.

Which kind of proves to me that the original NES and Gameboy were the most successful, because even when their successors were available, they still had games produced. Not to mention they had at least a full decade before going into retirement.

[DarthGonzo]

Well things are moving so fast nowadays that it's hard for a next gen console to last very long before it's time for an upgrade.

The Gamecube was released in late 2001 and was finally discontinued this year. So thats a little over 5 years. Honestly though, you could always buy a Wii and a Gamecube controller have both systems at your disposal. You can catch up on the Gamecube stuff while picking up new Wii titles.

Can't say how long the Wii will stick around for. But give it a shot.

[Desensitized]

I'm actually enjoying my Wii quite a bit. I've got about 7 or so non-VC games for it (all bought for cheap online) and I like them all a lot.

My Gamecube never saw much action in general outside of Melee, and a few other exclusives.

[Mikintosh]

I'm not sure about sales numbers, but in terms of market share Gamecube wasn't doing as well as the N64 did; that combined with the upcoming Xbox 360 and PS3 led them to introduce the Wii probably a bit earlier than they did otherwise. But the paradigm shift between the two systems was very healthy for the company in the long run anyway.

With the NES, the only major releases during the SNES years were ports, the last few Mega Man games, Kirby's Adventure, and Mario puzzles. At least, there was no Super Mario Bros. 4 for the NES, and they released the Metroid and Kid Icarus sequels on the Game Boy instead.

As for the original Game Boy, they stopped making games specifically for it in 1998-1999, as its successor was launching. A number of Color games were compatible with the old system, but they were billed as made for the new system. As I touched on in my own GBC thread (coincidentally), I think the only "desperate" move they've made was putting out Game Boy Pocket, Game Boy Color, and Game Boy Advance all within five years of each other, but I'm sure if the GBC had had astronomical numbers, they wouldn't have brought out the GBA so quickly; after all, they didn't have any competition at the time.

[Antiyonder]

With the NES, the only major releases during the SNES years were ports, the last few Mega Man games, Kirby's Adventure, and Mario puzzles. At least, there was no Super Mario Bros. 4 for the NES, and they released the Metroid and Kid Icarus sequels on the Game Boy instead.

As for the original Game Boy, they stopped making games specifically for it in 1998-1999, as its successor was launching. A number of Color games were compatible with the old system, but they were billed as made for the new system. As I touched on in my own GBC thread (coincidentally), I think the only "desperate" move they've made was putting out Game Boy Pocket, Game Boy Color, and Game Boy Advance all within five years of each other, but I'm sure if the GBC had had astronomical numbers, they wouldn't have brought out the GBA so quickly; after all, they didn't have any competition at the time.

My point was that they still had some new games at all. Whereas now it's five strikes and you're out.

[Gokou Ruri]

Some are for greed (Advance SP, DS Lite) by releasing "improved" versions of old handhelds when they probably had the technology to make the improved versions from the get-go. But since Nintendo dominates the handheld market, they can get away with it.

Console-wise, Nintendo hasn't been good since SNES. N64 was pretty lackluster, and Gamecube was just as mediocre and died long before the PS2 and X-Box did. Pretty much the only decent games were first-party games based on already established franchises. The Wii will probably do better, no doubt, but the fact the top bought game for it at launch was a Gamecube port might be cause for alarm. I think by the end of the cycle, the Wii will start losing steam as without the development power of the 360 (and I guess the PS3, if that ever picks up), they won't be able to match the high-tech, dynamic, advanced games that are coining out for other systems. However, right now, they seem to be doing fine; and unlike Sega, they have money from other properties (handhelds) to back them up and will keep trying.

[Frank Castle]

I feel that whenever developers really start getting comfortable with the development tools, there will be a much larger jump in overall quality in the games. Right now Nintendo's doing fine and I think the numbers will just continue to grow.

[Artimus Gigan]

At this point it seems really up in the air, it's really too early to tell where the wii is going. The system is beginning to show that it can't do certain staple genres w/o a needed hardware refinement(like 3d platformers and adventure games), however in some cases(like in party games) it succeeds very well.

I liked the n64 a good bit(I've got around 50 or so games for it) however towards the end it fell into a release slump and slumps later plauged the gamecube durring it's lifespan. I really hope that slumps don't happen as often to the Wii as it did it's predcessors.

[SuperPhillip]

Well, when Nintendo tried competing graphically with the other boys they made third place, so obviously a big change was needed.

[Artimus Gigan]

Well, when Nintendo tried competing graphically with the other boys they made third place, so obviously a big change was needed.
I don't think graphics had to do with it, more or less the later systems just didn't keep a steady flow of Grade A games

Because the NES and SNES did tout their graphics arounds in many instances(The SNES especialy when the likes of Mariokart, Starfox,DKC were released)

[Chad Bonin]

Yes, the recent shifts have been desperate (NDS and Wii), but given the climate (a regular GB would be defeated by PSP, and a next gen GCN would lag behind the 360), but with despair comes quick, awesome thinking.

Graphics don't matter, but the Wii's not showing that it can't keep up; it's showing that developers haven't put in the effort. Given that Spidey 3 looks better on the PS2, the weakest of last-gen systems, than the Wii, more powerful than XBox 1, you can tell it's just lazy developers.

[Neo Ultra Mike]

]Originally Posted By DarthGonzo
Well things are moving so fast nowadays that it's hard for a next gen console to last very long before it's time for an upgrade.

Isn't it kind of the opposite though with how expensive Next-Generation consoles are doing and how long it actually takes to make games when even compared to the last generation? That there may be actually bigger gaps between geneartions just so there will be enough time for the profits of each console to fully sink in and have technology advance enough to come up with a worthwhile upgrade to a system?


Oriignally Posted By SuperPhillip
Well, when Nintendo tried competing graphically with the other boys they made third place, so obviously a big change was needed.

That is sort of true, though the Gamecube could produce better visuals then the Playstation 2, Nintendo's succeeding now due to the cheapness of they're systems which do mean less quality graphics but not too many people seem to really mind that. Artimus is right though about the flow of quality games not being up to snuff when talking about the Gamecube's failure though.

But I wouldn't really say the change was desperate. More like Nintendo pushed they're quirky and more out there ideas into these systems and it actually worked with them. I mean where I work the DS/Wii games and consoles sell much more then Playstation 3 or Xbox 360 stuff (and Game Boy Advances sells as well as PS2 games) and it's because people like that new type of control system and new style of games Nintendo are making and buy it. I mean it's still not too ahead in the game to know for sure but the Wii's got a much better start then the PS3 or even Xbox 360 (well when it first started out anyway) and seems to continue pushing the system and the DS continues outselling PSP in mostly every way. The only major advances Sony or Microsoft really have over Nintendo in a sense are superior graphics, better accesiblity to all media types through they're consoles and greater online packages, and to a lot of people that stuff dosen't actually matter for the most part.

[Invidente 7]

Some are for greed (Advance SP, DS Lite) by releasing "improved" versions of old handhelds when they probably had the technology to make the improved versions from the get-go. But since Nintendo dominates the handheld market, they can get away with it.

Console-wise, Nintendo hasn't been good since SNES. N64 was pretty lackluster, and Gamecube was just as mediocre and died long before the PS2 and X-Box did. Pretty much the only decent games were first-party games based on already established franchises. The Wii will probably do better, no doubt, but the fact the top bought game for it at launch was a Gamecube port might be cause for alarm. I think by the end of the cycle, the Wii will start losing steam as without the development power of the 360 (and I guess the PS3, if that ever picks up), they won't be able to match the high-tech, dynamic, advanced games that are coining out for other systems. However, right now, they seem to be doing fine; and unlike Sega, they have money from other properties (handhelds) to back them up and will keep trying.
That's exactly my thoughts, althought I forgot about the handhled factor....and the fact that Pokemon is some sort of permanent cash machine for Nintendo as well :shrug:

[SuperPhillip]

I don't think graphics had to do with it, more or less the later systems just didn't keep a steady flow of Grade A games

Because the NES and SNES did tout their graphics arounds in many instances(The SNES especialy when the likes of Mariokart, Starfox,DKC were released)

The Gamecube never had a substantial boost in sales even with AAA games like Resident Evil, Metroid Prime, and Super Mario Sunshine. There was a constant supply of good games within the first two years, but even that wasn't good enough. By three years in it was already too late. The Wii has maybe two exclusive big games in Wii Sports and Super Paper Mario (Zelda can be found on the Cube), and nothing else huge yet it's already passed the 6 million mark worldwide. It's already passed where the Cube was at its release even though the Cube had much better games within 6 months unlike the Wii. In Japan, what was once Sony-land is now dominated by Nintendo thanks to the DS mostly and the Wii.

Regardless, instead of going for power where the Gamecube went and failed, Nintendo decided to make a cheaper console alternative with motion sensitive controls, a decisively different route from their previous console. That's just my take, that is.

[Artimus Gigan]

The Gamecube never had a substantial boost in sales even with AAA games like Resident Evil, Metroid Prime, and Super Mario Sunshine. There was a constant supply of good games within the first two years, but even that wasn't good enough. By three years in it was already too late. The Wii has maybe two exclusive big games in Wii Sports and Super Paper Mario (Zelda can be found on the Cube), and nothing else huge yet it's already passed the 6 million mark worldwide. It's already passed where the Cube was at its release even though the Cube had much better games within 6 months unlike the Wii. In Japan, what was once Sony-land is now dominated by Nintendo thanks to the DS mostly and the Wii.

Games like Resident Evil, Metroid Prime, and such came out much much later

By the time they came out PS2 allready had the likes of Final Fantasy 10, GTA 3, Metal gear Solid 2, to name afew

they didn't keep the stream of titles flowing on the GC, from launch to the end, and for a number of the big name games the quality was questionable(i.e. Starfox Assault)

[Mikintosh]

they didn't keep the stream of titles flowing on the GC, from launch to the end, and for a number of the big name games the quality was questionable(i.e. Starfox Assault)

Dammit, I liked Assault! People always point that out as a failure, but I was a huge SF64 fan and I thought it was almost as good, personally. I'll put up Adventure as causing the franchise to lose it's luster, though. The sheer amount of franchise titles for the GC, though, didn't help the "desperate" image. Although I'm sure that's part of the way Nintendo is able to keep its money in lean times, along with the handheld cash.

Anyway...this is true. I never got a non-Nintendo system until a few years into Gamecube, and I ended getting both the PS2 (used) and the Xbox during that period because Nintendo wasn't satisfying me at the moment (I wanted a fighter besides Bloody Roar, sorry!). I blame the defection partially on damn Super Mario Sunshine. I really looked forward to that game and then it traumatised me with its unbeatablility. And it's supposed to be a kid's game!

[BCVM22]

I blame the defection partially on damn Super Mario Sunshine. I really looked forward to that game and then it traumatised me with its unbeatablility. And it's supposed to be a kid's game!

What, precisely, did you find too hard about Sunshine?

[Chad Bonin]

What, precisely, did you find too hard about Sunshine?
Well, there's no doubt that Sunshine was one of the hardest Mario games, but it should be beatable. I remember seeing the credits...

[Vermunium]

Sunshine was only hard at some points. That's what I greatly enjoyed about the game. I dare to go and say that I enjoyed it far more than I ever did Super Mario 64.

[Desensitized]

Well, Mario Galaxy is the first 3D Mario I'm actually excited for, so we'll see.

As for the Wii, at this point it's too early to tell if the Wii was the `right` decison for Ninty, but I think it was a good one.

[Shawn Hopkins]

The original point here seems to be that creating a new system every five years is a sign of desperation. It's not. That's just about the standard life cycle for a console now and has been for several console generations, with the PS2 being the most notable current exception. In the US, SNES, N64 and Gamecube all followed rough five year cycles before a new system was introduced.

Even the most immensely popular systems, such as the PS2, NES and Genesis had only 6 or seven year cycles before a successor was introduced.

Is the fact that the Wii is so different than the other two a sign of desperation? I don't think so. I think Nintendo just decided to innovate in a different direction and try to reach a different audience.

[Mikintosh]

What, precisely, did you find too hard about Sunshine?


The Warp Zone levels come to mind. Loved the aesthetics, but I've only beaten one of them in five years. And a lot of the goals were time consuming (all the damn coin challenges...I didn't like the 100-coin stars the first time around guys), or harder to accomplish considering the age range it was pitched to. And everything was required to continue on the game, pretty much! Super Mario 64 let you pick and choose, which is why I'm satisfied with it, even though I've never got above 83 stars.

And the fact that all the levels looked so boringly similar didn't help with the experience.

[Noukon]

Games like Resident Evil, Metroid Prime, and such came out much much later

Metroid Prime was announced long before launch and released in 2002.

Relevant info here: The N64 was a huge step down from the SNES sales-wise, and the GameCube was another step down. Both were hugely profitable for Nintendo, but their market share (at least in terms of home consoles) was definitely dwindling each generation.

The DS was definitely a desparate move to counteract Sony, given its rushed development timeline, but it paid off really well. The Wii... not so much desparation. They were already well into fleshing out their new market strategy, and the Wii is in line with that.