Lost "D.O.C." Talkback (Spoilers)

[Temple Fugate]

Us vs Them

http://library.toonzone.net/talkbacks/abc.jpghttp://library.toonzone.net/talkbacks/lost.jpg


Lost
Season 3 Episode 18: "D.O.C."
Wednesday, April 25 @ 10pm EDT/PDT
Writers: Adam Horowitz & Edward Kitsis
Director: Frederick E.O. Toye

Sun fears for the life of her baby when she learns about Juliet's research.

If you miss this or any recent episode of Lost you can watch it on-line at abc.com (http://dynamic.abc.go.com/streaming/landing).

Current Season Talkbacks
#3x17 - "Catch-22" (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=188579)
#3x16 - "One of Us" (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=188148)
#3x15 - "Left Behind" (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=187722)
#3x14 - "Exposé" (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=186685)
#3x13 - "The Man From Tallahassee" (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=186258)
#3x12 - "Par Avion" (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=185768)
#3x11 - "Enter 77" (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=185354)
#3x10 - "Tricia Tanaka is Dead" (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=184917)
#3x09 - "Stranger in a Strange Land" (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=184397)
#3x08 - "Flashes Before Your Eyes" (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=183929)
#3x07 - "Not in Portland" (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=183435)
#3x06 - "I Do" (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=178089)
#3x05 - "The Cost of Living" (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=177566)
#3x04 - "Every Man for Himself" (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=177138)
#3x03 - "Further Instructions" (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=176600)
#3x02 - "The Glass Ballerina" (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=176103)
#3x01 - "A Tale of Two Cities" (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=175665)

Please keep discussion of previews and rumors of unaired episodes in spoiler boxes.

Let the talkback begin!

[Jacob T. Paschal]

D.O.C

Dogs
Outta
Crap

?

Either way, this should be interesting, heck, anything with subtitles is interesting!

[Neo Ultra Mike]

I think it had been rumored that we wouldn't find out about just who the father of Sun's baby is until the very end of the series. And if you want to be really really obessive you could say that Juliet in her ruse (more on that later) didn't tell Sun the truth about that. I'm incinced to beleive Juliet's reactions even if some her motives aren't truthful so yeah I would say Jin's the father and Sun may be looking near death... in two months. Which on this show guarantees at least another season before serious worry creeps in. Overall this episode was on the level of most of the other Sun/Jin eipsodes: Fairly good if not the best eps. Seeing the third part of the flashback made me realize that in Lost the main lesson/point of the flashback always comes by it's third part, connecting it's theme to the island theme. This week's it's just because you're the parent of your child dosen't mean your the father and may not be something you want to know. But a real true mother will accept it and be happy, like Sun was even knowing she may die. I also liked her threathening Jin's old skank of a mother. May be the last we see of her though. The other plot was pretty good too, espically the Jin/Michaelv fight, Charlie and Desmond's little arguments back and forth (looks like unlike the other survivors Desmond isn't that anti-other. Guess because he's still an outsider in a sense) and the shocking revelation of Oceanitc Flight 815 having all the passangers dead. I mean you knew she wouldn't be there to resuce them since it seems she came from Penelope's rescue operation but having info on the passangers of that flight being dead and they're plane found? Sounds set upish to me. Probably other work or something. Speaking of other work, the Juliet ending confirms she still is working for them/Ben for some reason (IMHO a way off this island) and is taking samples from the women. Probably having something to do with the pregencencey, though I want to see how she's going to get Kate's sample. Overall solid week which makes me anticpate next week all the more. I'd say more why but I don't feel like posting any spoilers right now.

[David Lucas]

Umm...yeah..............



.............what?

They're all dead? Seriously? That would explain why Mikhail is alive, but no, my, um, with....

....god damn it, I hate these people.

[Samhaine]

They're all dead? Seriously?
Doubtful. The plane washed away early on in the first season; at least, the fuselage did. And the tail fell into the ocean as well. Maybe what was found were those remnants, and hey, no survivors were in those parts of the plane, as they're all on the island.

I took the whole thing as a way to add a cliffhanger, start the theories up again about the island being Purgatory, and then next week they'll just dismiss the whole thing when someone remembers that the plane isn't on the island anymore.

That, or I'm completely wrong. Could go either way.

[Hurricane V1]

Why would someone need to speak three different languages?

The Russian guy being alive is quite a shocker. I didn't realize the island has THAT much healing power.

[Discloner]

Man this episode was good...Not only did it tie together a fantastic Sun/Jin flashback ark in a way that makes all the preceding flashbacks regarding the two that much deeper, but it connected with the on-island drama AND supplemented it with interesting actions from other groups on the island.

Because of this story - we now have a new layer for Sun. Her character is immensely changed by the revelation that her 'loan' from her father was what cast Jin into the family business. I at least, had thought her to be ignorant to the real workings of her family prior - or at least what Jin was doing for them. Yet the scene where he returns home with blood on his hands from season 1 has whole new context in the light that she knows, and probably thinks she's responsible for what's become of her husband at that moment.

It also says something about her - that she was well aware of what her Husband had be cast into, that she was responsible for it; but that she decided it was too much for her and cheated on him/tried to run away from him, still. Is it touching that she did it all in name of his pride - even to the point of destroying their marriage? I'm torn really, but it's a fascinating thing to think about - at least it is to me.

Also interesting is Juliette. I absolutely love her presence in the series, I love her character and find her and her struggles to be immensely interesting. From my perspective she seemed sincere about wanting to give happy news, and her joy at the baby's health and seeming care for Sun's wellbeing seemed true; but the looming cloud of Ben is following her around - and I think this episode did a great job of driving that home. Juliette is not a bad person, but she's determined to get off the island and seems like she'll do anything to get that wish. I hope she's not a one-season character. For too frequently has this series introduced a new, fascinating character only to kill them off the same season or shortly there after. Juliette's an interesting presence in the series, and I personally would be greatly disappointed to see her leave it any time soon.


They're all dead? Seriously? That would explain why Mikhail is alive, but no, my, um, with....Considering Ben's (or whoever's in charge)real-world connections, its not out of the realm of possibility that after learning about the plane and survivors they rigged a faux crash elsewhere so nobody would come searching for them and stumble on the island; which if is the case...I doubt Micheal and Walt found a happy end out at sea.

I honestly don't know what to make of Mikhail still being alive...either he had a twin or...uh...maybe there's a parallel camp of 'Others v2.0'? It certainly is an interesting new mystery! Great stuff LOST...here's to hoping the season finale can keep up the run of good episodes.

[Peter Paltridge]

This show is known for making regional errors like leaving the extra "U" out of a poster in the Desmond trip-back-in-time episode. I don't think the currency in Korea is called "dollars," is it? Yet that's what Sun and Jin's mama asked for...

[Terminatah]

So are they implying that Kate is pregnant too, by Sawyer? Because, I swear last week I was about to ask what the hell these people are using for protection. Sawyer and Kate have gotten jiggy twice. Once in his tent, where he may CONCEIVABLY keep condoms, but before that it was in the polar bear cage, and that one had to be bareback. So, that's... how many bastard Ford children? Two, at least. Unless Kate dies, and then we're back to one. But if Kate dies, everyone stops watching and the show is over anyway. Thoughts?

-Terminatah

[Bones Justice]

So are they implying that Kate is pregnant too, by Sawyer?

If what Juliette said is true about what the Island does to a male's vitality, it's likely that Kate will be pregnant, too. Juliette knows that Sawyer and Kate got busy in the cage, too.

So what's the deal with Patch? Did he really die and was revived? Or did they just forget to check his vitals after he went through the sonic fence? Maybe he was only knocked out by it. At least he acknowledged the Island's healing power. There's no way that girl would have survived otherwise. But if he did revive from being killed, this sure opens up possibilities for other characters that were "killed". Just wait until next season when they stumble upon Mr. Eko, Boone, Shannon, Nikki, and Palo sitting around a campfire. :D Though I don't think even the Island could put Arntz back together again! :evil:

I'm enjoying the show right now but I'm still a little put off by the idea that we have one or maybe even two more seasons before the finale. The ending to this episode was really frustrating because they might not even answer that particular question for a couple of years! The final exchange seemed tacked on just to give the episode a cliffhanger.

The story with Sun and Jin, as others have pointed out, just did a one-eighty. Now Jin appears to be victim in the relationship and given his generally friendly behavior on the Island, it makes more sense. I won't pretend to understand Korean culture but all of her troubles seem like they could have been avoided. If she was unwilling to go to the police (likely due to her father's "business"), she should have delivered her warning to Jin's mother without giving her the money.

Three stars -- the added insight into Jin's backstory was good but the other half with the girl pilot and Patch went absolutely nowhere.

[silverwings]

Considering Ben's (or whoever's in charge)real-world connections, its not out of the realm of possibility that after learning about the plane and survivors they rigged a faux crash elsewhere so nobody would come searching for them and stumble on the island; which if is the case...I doubt Micheal and Walt found a happy end out at sea.

When she said that "there were no surivivors" this is exactly what came to mind. It must have been a faked crash thanks to "Dharma." After all, you don't want outsiders to interrupt your experiments halfway through. :p

That or what Samhaine said. Though they would have only found two parts of the plane. They'd have to be near the island. Doesn't make sense that they didn't check the island for the 3rd section of the plane.

[Pamela Isley]

I have to say I am enjoying watching Lost relatively spoiler free, although I have a pretty good idea as to who is going to buy the farm next. Seeing the Russian guy was truly a WTH :eek:moment for me. The Sun/Jin story I really enjoyed alot, especially hearing them speak in their native language. I was surprised she knew so much about her father's business and that subtle threat she made to Jin's mother was definately an eyebrow raiser.

[Brandon Pierce]

Just wait until next season when they stumble upon Mr. Eko, Boone, Shannon, Nikki, and Palo sitting around a campfire. :D Though I don't think even the Island could put Arntz back together again! :evil:

Don't forget Steve! Or was it Scott? Damn, I forget.

Ethan and Goodwyn in that campfire scene sounds plausible, they all sat down and sang kumbaya with the rest of them.

BTW, anybody notice just how much English Jin has learned by now. Jin had a lot of dialogue during the non-flashback sequences, and during those times, I don't think he spoke a word of Korean.

I think Mikhail WANTED to be caught with that phone thingy. I mean, he steals it from Desmond's bag, and then VERY SLOOOOOOWLY walks into the jungle. And when Jin goes after him, Mikhail continues walking VEEEEERRRRYYYY SLOOOOOWLY! He could have easily bolted and ran into the jungle. I think he wanted to be caught with the phone. Perhaps to prove a point to Desmond and the others not to mess with him. That's just a guess.

[bigddan11]

So the island can heal people that appear to b dead. I wonder if this means we'll get the dead rising from their graves in the near future. I feel sad though that now we're going to be focusing on this dead mothers storyline, because it makes me wonder exactly what the "Others" will do to all of them, and you can tell that one doctor isn't happy with what's going on one bit.

[mr.happy]

though I want to see how she's going to get Kate's sample.I vote for another round of naked mud wrestling. :D

Did Michail fake the effects of the sonic fence? Perhaps it only works on Smokey, or perhaps it doesn't work on Smokey either, and it's all part of a bigger ploy?

Another very good episode, though. Lost has really got it together as the season draws to a close. Hopefully they won't stumble before the finishing line.

[Hurricane V1]

I just thought of something. I may be wrong since I don't keep Lost episodes on tape for too long.

At the very end of last season's finale, I believe it was Penny who had this one dude monitoring the earth's atmoshpere for radiation outbursts, I guess in order to find Desmond or whatever. Someone on this board, I believe made an observation that the guy was played by Jack's actor. And if I'm not mistaken, I think the briefly seen character was a Russian. Maybe Jack and the one eyed Russian have twins running about?

If people really are returning from the dead, I'd like to see Ann Lucia again. Everyone else seemed to hate her but I wanted to see some more of her history or just see her get some revenge on the Others. I mean those kidnapped children were wondering what happened to her.

[Jacob T. Paschal]

Date Of Conception



Maybe it was to establish Naomi as a communications expert, like Mikhail? Maybe her talk of there being no survivors was just to mess with Hurley's mind? Maybe Mikhail wasn't ever "dead" any more than Claire was "sick" in the last episode?

Sun's baby seemed awfully developed, with an unusually strong heartbeat considering how early in the pregnancy is supposedly is, and how thin Sun is...

Yeah, I got that during the episode. :D

I don't think Mikhail was dead in the first, but rather the Island healed him enough before he died.

[mr.happy]

That's what I think -- if "Smokey" was being used just to scare Kate in that scene and the ruse with the fence being activated to impress her with the Others' supposed capabilities, then Mikhail could have also used some sort of trickery to fake his grisly seeming death.Yes, like I said at the time, it certainly seemed a little convinient that Smokey couldn't catch up with Kate and Juliet, considering how fast we have seen it move, never mind the fact that if it wanted to actually attack them, letting out loud warning noises and stomping sounds as it made its way towards them was probably not the way to go, and there was of course the obvious question of why it couldn't just pass over the fence. Still, I don't really like the idea of the Others controlling Smokey, but again, it did take a curious interest in catching Locke just days before Ben showed up with similar intentions.

[Yojimbo]

This was my favorite Sun flashback episode so far. It's weird, I guess with all the previous flashbacks and progression, this episode really worked well.

I admit that Jack was creepy, it was a definite homage to last season. I wonder in the back of my mind if Jack was telling the whole truth.

The Paik Automotive symbol looks like it might mean something. I mean the others I've seen do. I'll have Wikipedia some Korean symbols.

Mr. Kwon is a great person, it's too bad he doesn't appear more often.

Well Desmond had no idea who the woman was, seems like my thoery she's part of Penny's team is correct so far. And she's multi-lingual to boot...or is it some weird effect of going from the real world to the island?

Hurley had some hilarious moments from everyone staring at him in silence to him pretending to talk on the phone at the end.

Some other highlights were Sun's tears of happiness, Jin kicking Mikhail's ass and Juliet's off the record "I hate you, Ben."

I guess the sonic death fence was just a sonic fence. I have a feeling that the fence left Mikhail within an inch of his life and as a result the island healed him. I guess Miss Klugh preferred to die than such a horrendous trauma that Mikhail takes in stride, with him being an a-hole and all.

It was interesting that it was Sun's decision that led Jin to become Paik's 'messanger.' Last year, I would have said she should have told the truth but the implications of ruining her family name were prevalent and threatening Jin's mother was what convinced me she made the right choice and put a lot of thought into it.

The Others could have set up a staged plane scenerio. That was my immediate reaction. So far we know as of now, the Others are affiliated with one super rich organization, Mittelos . As another pointed out, it could have been the writers messing with fans and Hurley hallucinated talking to the woman. Another theory is the circumstances of the event, the EMP and perhaps the Monster, created a temporal paradox, in an alternate reality/pocket dimension where the island is, created a duplicate plane and passengers...it's sci-fi fringe theory but you never know.


Yes, like I said at the time, it certainly seemed a little convinient that Smokey couldn't catch up with Kate and Juliet, considering how fast we have seen it move, never mind the fact that if it wanted to actually attack them, letting out loud warning noises and stomping sounds as it made its way towards them was probably not the way to go, and there was of course the obvious question of why it couldn't just pass over the fence. Still, I don't really like the idea of the Others controlling Smokey, but again, it did take a curious interest in catching Locke just days before Ben showed up with similar intentions.

I haven't filled in the dots yet but on the invisible maps there are four areas marked CV that stand for "Cerberus Vents." Locke commented on how it might be a guardian, some time it was said to be a security system. It must be this Cerberus, considering the mythology behind the name.

[mr.happy]

I haven't filled in the dots yet but on the invisible maps there are four areas marked CV that stand for "Cerberus Vents." Locke commented on how it might be a guardian, some time it was said to be a security system. It must be this Cerberus, considering the mythology behind the name.I never really got into the whole thing with the invisible map but have heard Cerberus mentioned, and Smokey did appear to be made up of at least 3 different "heads" when it bounced off the sonic fence. As for the vents, it always seemed like Smokey came bursting out of the ground, but it seems to me we have seen this happen in more than 4 different places. Danielle did describe it as a security system, like you said, and she's usually right.

[Terminatah]

I just thought of something. I may be wrong since I don't keep Lost episodes on tape for too long.

At the very end of last season's finale, I believe it was Penny who had this one dude monitoring the earth's atmoshpere for radiation outbursts, I guess in order to find Desmond or whatever. Someone on this board, I believe made an observation that the guy was played by Jack's actor. And if I'm not mistaken, I think the briefly seen character was a Russian. Maybe Jack and the one eyed Russian have twins running about?It was two guys speaking Portugese, and one of them just kinda looked like Jack. He was not played by Matt Fox, and it's highly unlikely that they are in any way connected, as of the airing of that episode.


That's what I think -- if "Smokey" was being used just to scare Kate in that scene and the ruse with the fence being activated to impress her with the Others' supposed capabilities, then Mikhail could have also used some sort of trickery to fake his grisly seeming death.He faked foaming at the mouth and bleeding from both ears?

-Terminatah

[mr.happy]

He faked foaming at the mouth and bleeding from both ears?Come on? Like you've never done that to get out of a maths test or to escape a bad date?

:p

[Temple Fugate]

Jeezum! I want to write a review but I've gotta reply to all these great posts first.


Sun's baby seemed awfully developed, with an unusually strong heartbeat considering how early in the pregnancy is supposedly is, and how thin Sun is...Could be the Island's thing with giving very good health. Babies might develop perfectly, except at some point the mother's health goes south as a side-effect.


This show is known for making regional errors like leaving the extra "U" out of a poster in the Desmond trip-back-in-time episode. I don't think the currency in Korea is called "dollars," is it? Yet that's what Sun and Jin's mama asked for...It's "won." Possibly the translator made it "dollars" so we wouldn't read the currency "won" as the word we commonly use to mean "victory."


So are they implying that Kate is pregnant too, by Sawyer? Because, I swear last week I was about to ask what the hell these people are using for protection. Sawyer and Kate have gotten jiggy twice. Once in his tent, where he may CONCEIVABLY keep condoms, but before that it was in the polar bear cage, and that one had to be bareback. So, that's... how many bastard Ford children? Two, at least.Well, you can't have two babies by having sex twice during the same pregnancy. The only way she'd have more than one baby is if the originally impregnated egg split. But I'll get in on the bet that she's absolutely pregnant.

The Others DIDN'T know Sun was pregnant! Surprising, considering they know everything else.

Didn't somebody have sex with Ana-Lucia at some point? At least she was sparred the suffering.


I'm enjoying the show right now but I'm still a little put off by the idea that we have one or maybe even two more seasons before the finale. The ending to this episode was really frustrating because they might not even answer that particular question for a couple of years! The final exchange seemed tacked on just to give the episode a cliffhanger.I'm expecting that once they answer a significant amount of questions concerning the Others, we'll be launched into a new storyline that will give the series renewed legs for the next season.


When she said that "there were no surivivors" this is exactly what came to mind. It must have been a faked crash thanks to "Dharma." After all, you don't want outsiders to interrupt your experiments halfway through. :p My thoughts exactly. We don't need any parallel dimensions or bad twins or clones thankyouverymuch.


That or what Samhaine said. Though they would have only found two parts of the plane. They'd have to be near the island. Doesn't make sense that they didn't check the island for the 3rd section of the plane.Not to mention searching the Island for PEOPLE. (Who are about a quarter-mile away, not too hard to find.) The fuselage is barely off-shore, it's just sunk into the ocean. It's too big and heavy to have drifted anywhere.


Don't forget Steve! Or was it Scott? Damn, I forget.Scott.


I think Mikhail WANTED to be caught with that phone thingy. I mean, he steals it from Desmond's bag, and then VERY SLOOOOOOWLY walks into the jungle. And when Jin goes after him, Mikhail continues walking VEEEEERRRRYYYY SLOOOOOWLY! He could have easily bolted and ran into the jungle. I think he wanted to be caught with the phone. Perhaps to prove a point to Desmond and the others not to mess with him. That's just a guess.It's possible he stole the phone to cover up his primary theft. Maybe he took something else, then took the phone as an obvious distraction because he knew they were suspicious of him and would likely accuse him of theft. But then, what did he REALLY steal?


It cracks me up that they give so much Korean dialogue to poor Daniel Dae Kim, who is an American who grew up speaking English (he was Metron in the last two eps of JLU!) Not to mention he was Agent Baker in seasons 2 and 3 of 24. (Any excuse to mention 24 in a non-24-related thread.)


I vote for another round of naked mud wrestling. :D They didn't mud wrestle! How many times to I have to I keep telling you delusional hormone-fueled freaks?


At the very end of last season's finale, I believe it was Penny who had this one dude monitoring the earth's atmoshpere for radiation outbursts, I guess in order to find Desmond or whatever. Someone on this board, I believe made an observation that the guy was played by Jack's actor. And if I'm not mistaken, I think the briefly seen character was a Russian. Maybe Jack and the one eyed Russian have twins running about?It wasn't Jack. I am not prepared to even field the possibility that it was a Jack clone. Again, no dopplegangers will continue to keep me a pleased Lost fan.


Yes, like I said at the time, it certainly seemed a little convinient that Smokey couldn't catch up with Kate and Juliet, considering how fast we have seen it move, never mind the fact that if it wanted to actually attack them, letting out loud warning noises and stomping sounds as it made its way towards them was probably not the way to go, and there was of course the obvious question of why it couldn't just pass over the fence.People outran it several times in season one, even in the pilot episode.


He faked foaming at the mouth and bleeding from both ears?

-TerminatahFoaming, possibly. Bleeding? No way. Unless he had one of those microchip things like the one they put in Claire, I don't see how he could have faked his death. And yes, they DID check his vitals, but then none of the rescue party were doctors. From the time that episode aired I was skeptical that he was dead. It's possible his heart was just stopped for a limited time thanks to the Island's healing effects. But if it saved him from microwaves, why couldn't it save other characters from simple things like bullets?

[mr.happy]

They didn't mud wrestle! How many times to I have to I keep telling you delusional hormone-fueled freaks?I didn't understand any of that.


People outran it several times in season one, even in the pilot episode.I have always pointed out that it seemed more than a little odd, as Smokey clearly has the speed and strength to deal with any fleeing prey, but it seemed particularly suspicious in this case, as Juliet obviously knew more about it than she was telling, and her whole plan was aimed at manipulating Kate.

[Terminatah]

Well, you can't have two babies by having sex twice during the same pregnancy. The only way she'd have more than one baby is if the originally impregnated egg split. But I'll get in on the bet that she's absolutely pregnant.When I say two bastard Ford children, I'm referring to (1) whatever's cookin' inside Kate and (2) Sawyer's illegitimate daughter Clementine, allegedly birthed by Cassidy Phillips. And these are just the ones we know about!


Foaming, possibly. Bleeding? No way. Unless he had one of those microchip things like the one they put in Claire, I don't see how he could have faked his death. And yes, they DID check his vitals, but then none of the rescue party were doctors. From the time that episode aired I was skeptical that he was dead. It's possible his heart was just stopped for a limited time thanks to the Island's healing effects. But if it saved him from microwaves, why couldn't it save other characters from simple things like bullets?I agree. From the look of it, he was probably down, but not dead, and was slowly healed by the island. Then again, I wouldn't put it past the producers to give us an episode next season where Mikhail flashes back to when he was a special effects wizard who used movie magic to trick people like that Australian guy in F/X and F/X2.

-Terminatah

[Yojimbo]

Last season, when Sun was waiting for the pregnancy test to give her a result, Kate told her she was once pregnant. I think that was brief remainder of a future story for her but the Others are probably collecting the DNA of all the women to test them for pregnancy or just to take samples in general, they took Michael's last season, and he's a dude. Most likely, Juliet is finishing what Ethan started.


I never really got into the whole thing with the invisible map but have heard Cerberus mentioned, and Smokey did appear to be made up of at least 3 different "heads" when it bounced off the sonic fence. As for the vents, it always seemed like Smokey came bursting out of the ground, but it seems to me we have seen this happen in more than 4 different places. Danielle did describe it as a security system, like you said, and she's usually right.

One fan uploaded a pretty decent one online, it's fun to look at when you need to kill time:http://www.lost4815162342.com/blastmap.htm

I think it is capable of copying memories of people and allows it to shape shift to take on a form such as Yemi or Dr. Shepard. I have this reoccuring theory that Vincent died on the first day and the Monster impersonated Vincent to lead certain survivors on quests to solve their own internal problems.

[Jave]

A good episode. Sun went up a lot in my book during the scenes with the sonogram. I love that kind of stuff.

I theorized that Mikhail may still be alive back in the "Par Avion" talkback. Guess I was right, in some way.

Woo! Jin kicks ass again!

Hurley was great. The firing of the flare gun was hilarious. (Although I was hoping for something to come out of it, like the survivors seeing it and going to where it was fired)

Nice interaction by Charlie and Desmond.

Has anyone noticed that with Locke gone, there seems to be less conflict between the survivors? (excluding Juliette)

I agree Jack was creepy, but I think it was done well. I still don't like Kate, though.

Hey! Another day marker! Day 90! And it's a Saturday!

Juliette's last line "I hate you" totally made my day. I like her character a lot, so it's nice to see that she's not happy doing what she's doing.

The ending was a real mind-blower. If it turns out that the island is Heaven/Hell/Purgatory, I stop watching Lost and curse those writers forever.

9/10 for "D.O.C."


It's "won." Possibly the translator made it "dollars" so we wouldn't read the currency "won" as the word we commonly use to mean "victory."Jin's mother asked for dollars. Big money transactions are done in dollars all over the world since it's the most global currency it exists, as it is accepted everywhere. Jin's Mother was probably trying to leave the country with that money, so it would make sense.

Besides, the money Sun's Dad was taking out of the safe were definitely dollars. Korean Won bills are smaller in size, and are colored a different shade of green.

[mr.happy]

The ending was a real mind-blower. If it turns out that the island is Heaven/Hell/Purgatory, I stop watching Lost and curse those writers forever.That won't happen. Not only would it be much too early in the series to let that particular cat out of the bag, but the producers have repeatedly debunked this theory over the last few years.

[Peter Paltridge]

Anyone recall all the way back to the beginning of the first season, when Jack ran to his dad's coffin and found it empty?

The guy's going to show up eventually. But what's he been doing all this time?

[Jave]

That won't happen. Not only would it be much too early in the series to let that particular cat out of the bag, but the producers have repeatedly debunked this theory over the last few years.I know. The thing is, the producers have changed their mind over so many things on this show that I'm ruling NOTHING out at this point.


Anyone recall all the way back to the beginning of the first season, when Jack ran to his dad's coffin and found it empty?

The guy's going to show up eventually. But what's he been doing all this time?I saw that episode (White Rabbit) a few weeks ago, and been wondering about that myself.

I guess he'll show up in the two-hour finale, since it's apparently going to be another Jack flashback.

[Terminatah]

I know. The thing is, the producers have changed their mind over so many things on this showReally? Like what?

-Terminatah

[Jave]

Really? Like what?

-Terminatah
I certainly recall them saying that the whole Jack/Kate/Sawyer thing was going to be over early in season 3.

Nikki and Paulo were supposed to last longer. It wasn't until "Exposé" went into production (or somewhere near that) that they decided to kill them off. (Taken from an interview with Damon Lindelof and Kiele Sánchez)

There was originally supposed to be a Vincent flashback in season 1. Apparently the idea was scrapped because it leaked.

Those are the ones off the top of my head, but I believe there are a few more. I personally don't want the whole Purgatory thing to happen, but given the nature of this series, I'm not fully scrapping it yet.

[Temple Fugate]

Lost Episode 65
"Island Diary, Day 86: Since she took a picture of my baby and told me I'm going to die I will now trust Juliet enough not to follow her back into the Staff to make sure she's not doing something to compromise me and my friends."
December 16, 2004
Flashback Score Card: SUN = 5 (Fourth place behind the big three of JACK, LOCKE and KATE)

We learned a lot, but it doesn't feel like anything really happened. Still, it was a good episode that gave a lot of characters something to do. Juliet is becoming more and more clear in my eyes and I'm anxious to see how her storyline is going to continue. Sun's on-Island dialogue was nice, particularly with Juliet. She doesn't get much focus during the series, but when she does it's always good.

The run-in with Patchy 2.0 was random. I expected the writers to play it as if nobody knew he had "died." (A believable scenareo since these four Survivors never witnessed it.) But apparently the Survivors have decided to start COMMUNICATING INFORMATION off-camera, which was one aspect of season one that drove me up the wall. Now that things on the Island are becoming more tense, it's great to see these guys act like they're all on the same side and be open about developments instead of waiting for ten episodes until something major happens and they go "Oh, this might be a good time to mention this other thing from forever ago that would have helped us."

Jin getting the phone back and speaking a lot of English was great. I think he's not speaking Korean much anymore just because he knows there's no point. He can get away with one- or two-word sentences and gesturing, and at this point everyone can figure him out with varying degrees of difficulty.

THE FLASHBACK - When the first Sun episode aired two and a half years ago, I was surprised to see such a liberal use of subtitles on a mainstream American show. Now I don't even notice them. The acting of all the Korean characters was great and the subtitles pretty much fade into the background since they are just helping to communicate an already rich story. I don't think Sun and Jin episodes would be the same at all if everyone was speaking English. Jin's parents provided a new angle on the relationship that changes a lot of perceptions. Now we can see that both halves of the marriage have been carrying some kind of burden, and from this it makes my want of Jin and Sun to keep their relationship intact even stronger. They have both sacrificed for their marriage and they deserve a good resolution, whether it's on the Island or not. It's too bad that might not happen.

The quadlingual woman telling Hurley they're all officially dead was great. I'm sure the Others' connections (Hanso or Jacob or Mittelos) made this happen. Hurley's "What?" capped the episode very nicely. HOWEVER, this one-word act-ender was used twice for comedy in this episode alone. "Oops" in the teaser and "What" at the very end. I love the guy, and I ABSOLUTELY LOVED his "Uh-oh" in the "Dave" teaser, but the writers need to be careful not to abuse the joke.

I'm ticked at the "90 days" thing. That doesn't fit AT ALL. Up to this point it seemed the writers had been doing a really good job being careful about dropping day information, but here...ugh. Okay, Patchy says he's "already died once this week." "Par Avion" was Day 80. Therefore this can't be any later than Day 86, (anything farther into the future is over one week past 80) and indeed, according to the file I've been keeping all season, we saw Days 85 and 86 in this episode. Furthermore, Juliet saying it's been 90 days and then saying it's Saturday is flat out WRONG. 90 days from September 22, 2004 is MONDAY, December 20. We've seen this kind of accident before, however; one of the flashbacks shows a newspaper with 9-22-04's date and it's the wrong day of the week there as well. If the day truly is a Saturday, it would have to be December 18, or Day 88.

But let me explain why this probably isn't true either: Many elements of dialogue over the last four episodes have led me to the conclusion that no day has been excluded. "Exposé" was Day 81 conclusively, and each subsequent episode has shown us the ending of one day and the start of the next. There's no margin to skip ahead. Furthermore, I find it hard to believe that Kate and Sawyer would have their relationship issues in last week's episode if Juliet had already been living amongst the Survivors for four or five days. This is supported by Kate telling Sawyer that his nickname ban was still in effect. Finally, and most definitively, the Others abandoned their home on Day 82. We learned in "One of Us" that Ben would see Juliet "in a week." Day 90 is over a week from this time, and I'm sure by "see," Ben didn't mean "I'll hear your voice on a cassette recorder."

Now what does this have to do with Sun's baby? That's a whole 'nother bag. 53 days since conception, huh? Let's go back. Assuming this really was Day 86 (or Night 85), that puts us at Day 31 or 32. Sun and Jin had a falling-out at this time, and even considering Juliet's Day 90 declaration, it wasn't until much later that they reconciled and were in any mood to have sex. The baby must have been conceived just before the events in "Translation," which, given that the DOC is an educated guess, not concrete fact, is totally possible.

One other thing; I rewatched "Translation," and in Jin's flashback to his father on the dock, his dad acts like Jin never told him about Sun or that he was married. (This conversation happens just days before the crash.) Of course he wouldn't make it look like Sun had visited him before or anything, but in "D.O.C." he says that Jin has mentioned her.

INSTANCES OF THE NUMBERS - There were at least two 4s in the combination to Mr. Kwon's safe. There were 8 lockers in the unit Juliet and Sun moved. One of the numbers Juliet uses for her male sperm count statistic is 80 million. Times five this number is 400 million. Juliet estimated Sun's baby was conceived 8 weeks, or 53 days ago (5+3=8). It's been 16 episodes since Sun's last flashback.

Lost 3x18: "D.O.C." - 4 8 15 16 23 42

[mr.happy]

I know. The thing is, the producers have changed their mind over so many things on this show that I'm ruling NOTHING out at this point.There's absolutely no way they're in purgatory. Like I said, even if that were the case, they would never drop this big a clue this early in the series, particularly since it's been a theory that's been around since early season 1.

[Terminatah]

I certainly recall them saying that the whole Jack/Kate/Sawyer thing was going to be over early in season 3.

Nikki and Paulo were supposed to last longer. It wasn't until "Exposé" went into production (or somewhere near that) that they decided to kill them off. (Taken from an interview with Damon Lindelof and Kiele Sánchez)

There was originally supposed to be a Vincent flashback in season 1. Apparently the idea was scrapped because it leaked.

Those are the ones off the top of my head, but I believe there are a few more. I personally don't want the whole Purgatory thing to happen, but given the nature of this series, I'm not fully scrapping it yet.Well, not to nitpick, but these are examples of things they intended to do in their minds that they decided to push forward or back for different reasons. The island not being purgatory is a statement they announced officially, and I can't imagine they would ever make such a sweeping continuity retcon regarding the very nature of the island, considering the final outcome of the show is something they planned from the beginning.

And I don't think they ever meant Jack/Kate/Sawyer would literally end, but rather that a choice would be made. And naturally, there are long term repercussions.

-Terminatah

[Temple Fugate]

The island not being purgatory is a statement they announced officially, and I can't imagine they would ever make such a sweeping continuity retcon regarding the very nature of the island, considering the final outcome of the show is something they planned from the beginning.

And I don't think they ever meant Jack/Kate/Sawyer would literally end, but rather that a choice would be made. And naturally, there are long term repercussions.

-TerminatahThe choice was certainly made, however, what none of us expected was that Kate would RETRACT her choice later on. Character-wise it makes sense, but her actions in "Catch-22" are a depressing sign of the future of this love square. When I heard the writers say that Kate would choose her lover, I sort of expected her to STICK WITH IT. I'm with you on the purgatory thing. They can't be in purgatory. It's just not an acceptable conclusion. (Then again...the one ending that we all know won't happen might be the one they shoot for because we're not expecting it. >_< )


Those are the ones off the top of my head, but I believe there are a few more.Another significant one from this season was that the producers said they were making the first six episodes that aired last fall to be one cohesive story arc. Either they couldn't fit it all into those six episodes, or their definition of "story arc" doesn't include an ENDING of some sort. It wasn't until "Stranger in a Strange Land" that we finally saw the conclusion to the plotline.

[Discloner]

The choice was certainly made, however, what none of us expected was that Kate would RETRACT her choice later on. Character-wise it makes sense, but her actions in "Catch-22" are a depressing sign of the future of this love square. When I heard the writers say that Kate would choose her lover, I sort of expected her to STICK WITH IT. Well...she hasn't really retracted it. She's still coming to terms with the decision she did make. If you cared for two people and decided one was the better choice - I think you'd still have some feelings or yearning or jealousy for the one who you didn't, especially if they were playing it off in the same nonchalant way Jack is...

[EinBebop]

So Sun is going to die in her second trimester? Will that be the fifth season finale, or will she survive until the sixth season? :)

[Discloner]

At this rate I wouldn't be surprised if the fifth season was the last, if we're lucky. The dramatic ratings decline this season has me mighty worried about how much longer they'll keep this thing going - but the fact that they've been openly discussing how it'll end slightly eases my fear that it won't end without a satisfying and non-rushed conclusion.

[Temple Fugate]

Well...she hasn't really retracted it. She's still coming to terms with the decision she did make. If you cared for two people and decided one was the better choice - I think you'd still have some feelings or yearning or jealousy for the one who you didn't, especially if they were playing it off in the same nonchalant way Jack is...That's a fair point. I guess I think too logically about these things. I totally agree that Jack's being an idiot about this whole thing. He's never handled his relationship with Kate very well and by now he should KNOW what's really going on. Shrugging off Kate is very disrespectful.

[Terminatah]

At this rate I wouldn't be surprised if the fifth season was the last, if we're lucky. The dramatic ratings decline this season has me mighty worried about how much longer they'll keep this thing going - but the fact that they've been openly discussing how it'll end slightly eases my fear that it won't end without a satisfying and non-rushed conclusion.I seem to recall somewhere in the Season 1 DVD extras, they said that they had a full series plan that would have the show ending after something like five seasons. Which, if even true, is a plan that could always change. But it is the length to which I've been setting my expectations since I watched the first season on DVD.

-Terminatah