Were the League using their heads during the series finale?

[I.R Joey]

It occured to me that the JLU decded to take on Darkseid's invasion all by themselves. Logically wouldn't it have been a better idea to have Orion or one of the other members with connections on New Genesis to alert High Father? Given that (according to STAS) an Apocolyptic attack against Earth would be considered an act of was against New Genesis I'm sure they would have sent their forces to aid the Leauge.

I also have to wonder why John Stewart didn't call for help from other GL corps members. Were they all occupied with equally important concerns elsewhere in the universe? I have to wonder?

Seems to me that New Genesis by itself could at least stalemate Darkseids forces (as they have for centuries.) Throw in the Leauge and some spare GL's and it seems to me that you have more than enough power to end Darkseids threat for good.

Anyone have any thoughts on the subject?

[Wonderwall]

The League seems to be able to handle global threats just as well as the other 2 if not better, seeing as New Genesis is more for peace after the truce and the guardians rarely do anything with such threats. Seeing as the League also trashed Apokolips' forces, I doubt they needed any help.

[I.R Joey]

The League seems to be able to handle global threats just as well as the other 2 if not better, seeing as New Genesis is more for peace after the truce and the guardians rarely do anything with such threats. Seeing as the League also trashed Apokolips' forces, I doubt they needed any help.

Seems to me that it makes Orions threat in Apokolips Now kind of empty? Even Darkseids personal assasin seemed concerned about the invasion. Were we given any indication that High Father changed his mind? I mean Orion is a leauge member right?

[Bird Boy]

Holy hell I.R Joey, haven't see you around in ages!

As for the question at hand, I'm pretty sure Darkseid went after New Genesis prior to Earth, as he alluded at the end of "Alive!" We never saw if he did, but it's implied.

As for the GL corps...well, it's the same thing with Secret Origins. If all of the heroes existed at the time of the Martian invasion, why were there only seven of them helping the big seven?

It's more dramatic if you don't just call in reinforcements. Logically it makes no sense, but it's all about the tension and drama.

-BB

[Wonderwall]

Before when Orion gave that warning, he had no idea there were other heroes, he just knew Superman it seemed, and one man cannot defeat an army, not even Superman. Also there was no league back then, and although the heroes were most likely there, they weren't organized. I doubt even the original version of the League would've been able to handle the attack. In Destroyer the League was almost ten times bigger, and they also had the help of the Secret Society. I think Orion's threat still holds at the time he gave it.

Edit: And what Bird Boy said in the real world, its about the tension.

[DisneyBoy]

I, unlike BB, don't feel it's at all implied that Darkseid took care of New Genisis before coming to earth. I'm pretty sure it was just skipped over the sake of getting the story to earth and having lots of fight scenes (which would explain why Orion, originally in "Alive!" was removed from the "previously on" montage that opened "Destroyer").

And I think that's absurd, especially since the creative team took such time and care setting up the Kirby material. Why do all that and not seize the opportunity during Season Three to write something about those characters? Instead of say...the Viking Prince, or Warlord or the Legion of Super-Heroes or another Hawkman...?

Here's another question...where the heck was Kalibak? The League "safely locked him up on Earth" so he couldn't be used during his homeworld's political conflict. You'd think Darkseid would bust his own "son" out, if only to help aid his take-over. But guess what? Kalibak is also left out of the finale.

Why? It's just easier for the creative team. Not better for the episode. No, you can't really explain those glaring questions away.

[EazyV]

^^^Dude I like the Viking Prince, LOSH....it was waaay better to do those than more Kirby stuff thats been done to death. I guess Darkseid invading was appropriate for the finale ending, but I would have preferred something different....

[Borg4of3]

Holy hell I.R Joey, haven't see you around in ages!

As for the question at hand, I'm pretty sure Darkseid went after New Genesis prior to Earth, as he alluded at the end of "Alive!" We never saw if he did, but it's implied.

As for the GL corps...well, it's the same thing with Secret Origins. If all of the heroes existed at the time of the Martian invasion, why were there only seven of them helping the big seven?

It's more dramatic if you don't just call in reinforcements. Logically it makes no sense, but it's all about the tension and drama.

-BB


Agreed, except Darkseid's line could be taken certain ways. When he says 'Next', he could mean right at that moment, they'll be going to New Genesis. Or he could mean right after they crush Earth, they'll go. And either way, New Genesis reached an end for its story in Twilight, as well as a lot of their military aspects that made them so fearsome before (even during that episode). As for the GL? Part of it is their whole code and territorial concerns. Another is, like was said, the League was handling the battle pretty darn well.

If Supes, Bats, and Lex hadn't dealt with Darkseid successfully, I'll assume that Darkseid and the big name Apocalyptian gods would severely change the tides of that battle against the League, and at that point, reinforcements would have been needed.

[HaagenDas]

One can explain the absences of all of them quite well.

Many people have already mentioned that the series finale was about Superman, Lex and Batman having their finale vs Darkseid. If Orion was involved, it would have centered around him. A good way to explain the continuity of it all would have been to have Orion visiting New Genesis during the time of the invasion.

The invasion didnt last long and warning didnt really come too much earlier. Lex got to the Metrotower at the end of Alive! and said "we have a problem" and that immediately continued to the beginning of Destroyer where they all had just walked in the Metrotower. Very little time had passed between Lex explaining what had happened and the boom tube incursions. This would explain why New Genesis nor the GL Corps could get to Earth in time allotted.

[Bird Boy]

Here's another question...where the heck was Kalibak? The League "safely locked him up on Earth" so he couldn't be used during his homeworld's political conflict. You'd think Darkseid would bust his own "son" out, if only to help aid his take-over. But guess what? Kalibak is also left out of the finale.

Darkseid was dead. Kalibak was taken to Earth by the Justice League and as far as we know, no one on Apokolips was informed his whereabouts. I doubt Darkseid really cared in his current state of "Kill Superman! Kill!" mind. His weakling and disappointing son was probably the last thing he was thinking about.


Why? It's just easier for the creative team. Not better for the episode. No, you can't really explain those glaring questions away.

My Lord you're extremely bitter lately. Take a chill man, stop spitting on everybody.

-BB

[DisneyBoy]

My Lord you're extremely bitter lately. Take a chill man, stop spitting on everybody.

Not bitter at all...:confused: Just agreeing that the episode wasn't written particularily well...

[JimRaynor55]

I, unlike BB, don't feel it's at all implied that Darkseid took care of New Genisis before coming to earth.

Here's exactly what was said during the scene:

DARKSEID: But first, Superman must suffer for killing me. His adopted world will die screaming. Only then will I seek the ultimate end.

KANTO: Forgive me lord, but an attack on Earth would violate your pact with Highfather. New Genesis would doubtless retaliate.

DARKSEID: Where do you think I'm going next?

I don't see how this scene could make any sense unless Darkseid meant he was going to take out New Genesis before going to Earth.


I'm pretty sure it was just skipped over the sake of getting the story to earth and having lots of fight scenes (which would explain why Orion, originally in "Alive!" was removed from the "previously on" montage that opened "Destroyer").

And I think that's absurd, especially since the creative team took such time and care setting up the Kirby material.

I agree they didn't bother explaining anything so that they could just have lots of big battles on Earth. When I said that the scene could only make sense if Darkseid meant he was going to remove the threat of New Genesis, I was talking about the internal logic of that scene. It makes no sense for Apokalips to be able to take on New Genesis when its military was routed in "Twilight" (to the point where it was used as an explanation for them not being able to beat Brainiac), and the planet had been tearing itself apart in a civil war for years.

[pixellj]

As for the question at hand, I'm pretty sure Darkseid went after New Genesis prior to Earth, as he alluded at the end of "Alive!" We never saw if he did, but it's implied.
-BB

Pretty sure he was planning on New Genesis after Earth. He told his plan of invading earth, and someone said "Won't that break the treaty" (or something like that). his reply was "Where do you think I'm going next?". I took that to mean next, after earth.

[The Penguin]

Here's exactly what was said during the scene:

DARKSEID: But first, Superman must suffer for killing me. His adopted world will die screaming. Only then will I seek the ultimate end.

KANTO: Forgive me lord, but an attack on Earth would violate your pact with Highfather. New Genesis would doubtless retaliate.

DARKSEID: Where do you think I'm going next?

I don't see how this scene could make any sense unless Darkseid meant he was going to take out New Genesis before going to Earth.Because he said he was going to New Genesis "next" that's why.

"...first Superman must suffer" and "Where do you think I'm going next?" "Next" as in after I do this first thing, the other thing will follow. This is a sequential order; one then two. Earth was first and then he was planning to pay a visit to High Father. I don't understand how this can be interpreted multiple ways. It blows my mind.

The language makes no sense if you try to shoehorn an attack on New Genesis in there. The obvious meaning is not wrong. There is not information to play with here and it amazes me how so many people try to infer meaning that isn't there because there has to be some big reason New Genesis didn't have a major presence on Earth.

[I.R Joey]

Holy hell I.R Joey, haven't see you around in ages!

As for the question at hand, I'm pretty sure Darkseid went after New Genesis prior to Earth, as he alluded at the end of "Alive!" We never saw if he did, but it's implied.

As for the GL corps...well, it's the same thing with Secret Origins. If all of the heroes existed at the time of the Martian invasion, why were there only seven of them helping the big seven?

It's more dramatic if you don't just call in reinforcements. Logically it makes no sense, but it's all about the tension and drama.

-BB

Oh I've been around Toonzone, just not at the DCAU board as much.

Personally I took Darkseids comment to mean that after he attacked Earth he was going to New Genesis. New Genesis has always been potrayed as at least the equal of Apokolips in terms of millitary. One could even argue that it's stronger given the thrashing Orion and company gave Darkseid's forces at the start of Twilight. Though you have to wonder how they were in any condition to fight anyone after such a destructive civil war.

As for New Genesis not being able to get there in time. I find that hard to believe. New Geneis and Apokolips basically have the light and dark versions of the exact same technology. If Darkseid could boomtube his millitary over that quickly so could High Father.

In regards to the GL corps. One could argue that maybe there's a territorial concern, but to me it seems kind of strange. I mean surely Darkseid being that close to attaining the anti-life equation has to trump most other concerns in the universe. What the anti-life equation actually is has been subject to debate (personally I think it grants someone control over all sentient, free thinking minds), but from Kirby all the way down it's been implied that if Darkseid attained it that the whole universe would be in trouble.

[JEWCY]

wouldn't it take a long time for the GL corps to come? The only reason they came to fight AMAZO is because they knew about it when he moved Oa to a different galaxy/dimension.

When the LOD went to the Metrotower to meet Superman and the Justice League, the fight just took place, so there probalby wasn't enough time to get the Green Lantern's to come and fight.

Plus it is JLU, not GL:TAS, although an appearance would not come with any complaints from fans or myself

[HaagenDas]

Highfather, Orion, and the Corps were sipping iced lattees as Lobo made fun of AMAZO whom hadnt moved an inch and still was tyring to figure out a way to defeat Chaos Grundy.

[Sue]

The rest of the GL Corps didn't need to be there. I don't see this being a big concern since they already had a man on Earth. Furthermore, this was the League's finale, and this episode was rightfully about them doing what they do best -- kicking ass and leaving massive collateral damage in their wake :evil: I think the GLC, New Gods, or any other team would've been out of place.

[Wolf Boy2]

Highfather, Orion, and the Corps were sipping iced lattees as Lobo made fun of AMAZO whom hadnt moved an inch and still was tyring to figure out a way to defeat Chaos Grundy.
Actually it was iced mochas. No wait ... that's the Amazons.:D


As for analyzing "Destroyer" ... why bother? The whole episode is only to give us a last glimpse of the JLU at their prime. Big fights. Big explosions. Wall to wall action (and constant music).

"Destroyer" was like a bikini model ... little intellegence, depth, completety or thought ........... but freakin GEORGEOUS to look at.:anime:

[SuperBat]

Because he said he was going to New Genesis "next" that's why.

"...first Superman must suffer" and "Where do you think I'm going next?" "Next" as in after I do this first thing, the other thing will follow. This is a sequential order; one then two. Earth was first and then he was planning to pay a visit to High Father. I don't understand how this can be interpreted multiple ways. It blows my mind.
I am in 100% agreement with you. In fact, you posted what I was going to say.

[Wolf Boy2]

Why do fanboys want the DCAU to be more violent than it is? Trying to shoehorn the "destruction" of New Genesis into the episode because no heroes died .... it's really stupid.

This is not Ultimate Avengers. It's not Cowboy Bebop. It's not Braveheart. It's not Pulp Fiction. It's not Kill Bill. It's not The Passion of the Christ. It's not 300. It's not mainstream DC Comics. DEAL WITH IT, or watch something else.

[JimRaynor55]

Because he said he was going to New Genesis "next" that's why.

"...first Superman must suffer" and "Where do you think I'm going next?" "Next" as in after I do this first thing, the other thing will follow. This is a sequential order; one then two. Earth was first and then he was planning to pay a visit to High Father. I don't understand how this can be interpreted multiple ways. It blows my mind.

The language makes no sense if you try to shoehorn an attack on New Genesis in there. The obvious meaning is not wrong. There is not information to play with here and it amazes me how so many people try to infer meaning that isn't there because there has to be some big reason New Genesis didn't have a major presence on Earth.

"But first, Superman must suffer" came immediately after Darkseid talked about his ongoing goal to find the Anti-Life equation. "Where do you think I'm going next?" is a response to Kanto saying New Genesis would retaliate if they went after Earth. A valid interpretation of the dialogue is that he was going to attack New Genesis to remove it as an obstacle to an invasion of Earth.

Although thinking about it again, another interpretation could mean that they would take out Earth very quickly, and then go to New Genesis before Highfather could retaliate for their breaking of the pact. I suppose this would be the best interpretation.


Why do fanboys want the DCAU to be more violent than it is? Trying to shoehorn the "destruction" of New Genesis into the episode because no heroes died .... it's really stupid.

This is not Ultimate Avengers. It's not Cowboy Bebop. It's not Braveheart. It's not Pulp Fiction. It's not Kill Bill. It's not The Passion of the Christ. It's not 300. It's not mainstream DC Comics. DEAL WITH IT, or watch something else.

Don't jump to conclusions. I hate a lot of the "gritty" crap in TV shows and movies. What I said was just what I thought was the conclusion that could be drawn from what was said in the episode.

EDIT: It still makes little sense that Apokalips could take on New Genesis at any time after their civil war and the events in "Twilight." As a bunch of people have said, the writers just wanted a big battle for their finale. Combined with the deus ex machina ending, this episode had flawed writing. It was still an enjoyable experience, but it could have been better.

[SuperBat]

"But first, Superman must suffer" came immediately after Darkseid talked about his ongoing goal to find the Anti-Life equation. "Where do you think I'm going next?" is a response to Kanto saying New Genesis would retaliate if they went after Earth.
"New Genesis will retaliate if we break the treaty." Darkseid went on to say, "Where do you think we're going next?" Next being after we break the treaty.


It still makes little sense that Apokalips could take on New Genesis at any time after their civil war and the events in "Twilight." As a bunch of people have said, the writers just wanted a big battle for their finale. Combined with the deus ex machina ending, this episode had flawed writing. It was still an enjoyable experience, but it could have been better.
But Apokolips didn't take on New Genesis. Darkseid said they would. Should I remind you that Darkseid also bragged about beating Superman in their last two brawls? He's an overconfident liar.