Khan!!!!

[Spaceman Spiff]

I just finished watching Wrath of Khan. I've always heard it was the best of the series, but I'd probably rank the 4th one or First Contact better. Maybe because I already knew Spock died in it, it didn't have the same impact on me. Anyways, what are your thoughts on it?

[pencilsharp]

I remember when I first saw that movie, waaaaay back when I was in Middle School. [Geezer mode ON] It had a HUGE effect on me when it came out. I mean, this was freakin' Spock! You just don't kill Spock! It isn't done!

The writers of the films were very coy about ST III, and they tried to keep the script secret for as long as they could. Of course, this was looong before the Internet and the Knowles Disinformation Service, so it took the fans longer to confirm that Spock was coming back. We knew Spock wouldn't stay dead... but we couldn't figure out quite how they would do it. [Geezer mode OFF]

All right, you can breathe again... whippersnappers... :p

BTW, my rank of ST movies: IV, then II, I, III, V, VI.

Oh, and happy 200th post to me! :) Hi, Maxie! No pat-on-the-back threads here...

[Maxie Zeus]

Originally posted by pencilsharp
I remember when I first saw that movie, waaaaay back when I was in Middle School. [Geezer mode ON] It had a HUGE effect on me when it came out. I mean, this was freakin' Spock! You just don't kill Spock! It isn't done!

The writers of the films were very coy about ST III, and they tried to keep the script secret for as long as they could. Of course, this was looong before the Internet and the Knowles Disinformation Service, so it took the fans longer to confirm that Spock was coming back. We knew Spock wouldn't stay dead... but we couldn't figure out quite how they would do it. [Geezer mode OFF]

All right, you can breathe again... whippersnappers... :p

BTW, my rank of ST movies: IV, then II, I, III, V, VI.

Oh, and happy 200th post to me! :) Hi, Maxie! No pat-on-the-back threads here...

Heh!

Actually, one geezer to another: I was going into 8th grade when it came out. Had a huge impact on me, too, probably greater than the Star Wars and Superman and Spielberg films. WoK had characters, who argued and teased and helped, who had dreams and nightmares and weaknesses, all disclosed in subtle but affecting ways.

Kirk taking out his new bifocals on the bridge, and muttering "Damn" because he's too embarrassed to let Khan see he needs them; Spock telling McCoy he needs to control his emotions, or "they will be your undoing"; McCoy, his voice cracking with his own pain, telling Kirk "He's already dead, Jim."

Characters who fought and bled and died together.

This was the film that first made me appreciate what it was for a story to be folded around character and personality, not just explosions or mystic little speeches about space. And, wonder of wonders, it had those too!

[pencilsharp]

Much more eloquently put than I, Maxie.

Speaking of characters, it was this movie that prodded me into reading those old ST novels that Pocket Books started putting out about then. Much superior to the old James Blish "adaptations", those old books had some of the best readin' around. Together with the old DC ST comic, I got to fall in love with some of the best writers in the genre, like Diane Duane and Peter David. They even made Uhura interesting! (Uhura's Song)

Now, is that "geezing" or more like "geeking"? :yawn:

[Maxie Zeus]

Originally posted by pencilsharp
They even made Uhura interesting! (Uhura's Song)

:fall on the floor in shock:

That's impossible!

:D

Wow, I remember reading the Blish adaptations when I was about 11. Thought the covers were the funkiest things, ever. I've read a few of the post-movie lineup, but don't remember which ones. I never got in the habit, though. Whichever ones I read didn't impress me a lot, and the line soon got so vast and exhausting that I just gave up.

Diane Duane, huh? I recognize that name. She wrote a BTAS ep, lessee. . .

:thumbs thru the reference site:

Co-wrote "The Lion and the Unicorn." Hmm. Maybe she made the earlier really bad draft less awful.

[Naraht]

I actually prefer alot of the Pocket TOS books to the TV show...

ST:II is my all time fav. It doesn't get any better than that...so what if a large part of the plot (and dialouge) was lifted from Moby Dick? (which is about a big whale, and not the child of Moby & Andy Dick)
So what if the graphics look like they were done on an 8088? (which..they might have been....were 8088's even out yet...maybe not...geez...


ok, I just did alot of work (that I can't show anyone yet...poo) so I'm tired & rambling...sorry.

[pencilsharp]

[i]Maxie Zeus wrote...[i]
Diane Duane, huh? I recognize that name. She wrote a BTAS ep, lessee. . .
:thumbs thru the reference site:
Co-wrote "The Lion and the Unicorn." Hmm. Maybe she made the earlier really bad draft less awful. Yeah, I remember that ep. A little Bromo-Seltzer will help with that. ;)
I haven't really kept my antennae out for Ms. Duane lately. Last I heard (a few years ago) she had dropped out of the writing biz to concentrate on her family. Or did she return to nursing? Darn this Alzheimer's!
Or is it lumbago?
As always, eternally :confused:

[Naraht]

Dianne Duane was the person responsible for "Naraht" so I'm a bit biassed. She still writes...

[Maxie Zeus]

Originally posted by naraht
Dianne Duane was the person responsible for "Naraht".

Really? Maxie commands you to explain!

:D

(Believe it or not, that's the first opportunity I've had to say that!)

[Naraht]

Originally posted by Maxie Zeus


Really? Maxie commands you to explain!

:D

(Believe it or not, that's the first opportunity I've had to say that!)

LOL!

Naraht was a character invented by Dianne in the book "My Enemy My Ally" (Unless Spock's World came out 1st..in which case he was invented there...) either way, it was Dianne's Character...

Anyway ,her books are some of the best I've read...she's a great character writter..now I gotta go back to watching Anime..(cause I'm too lazy to hit pause when typing...=\ and i can't read the subtitles)

[SilverKnight]

Yeah, ST: II was the best Star Trek movie ever made. As Maxie said, the subtle characterizations were top notch.

And William Shatner actually ACTED well in this one. Espeically with the death scene. >blinks in shock<

If I had to rank any other behind it, it'd be First Contact. It was close, but the problem with it was that only Data and Picard had any real meaningful parts in it, although Picard calling Worf a coward was pretty sweet. :D

Of course, this is comin' from someone who grew up in the TNG age. I'm babbling, so I'll shut up.

[Calhoun07]

I don't think 2 was the best Trek movie. I still feel First Contact is.

My order of favorites:
First Contact
Undiscovered Country
Wrath of Kahn
Search for Spock
Voyage Home
Generations (and I am one of the few who didn't mind the way Kirk died. The only thing that cheapened it was when Shatner started to write those novels to bring his own character back)
Insurrection
The Motion Picture
Star Trek V

[Naraht]

calhoun...you're silly!

ST:II
ST:IV
ST:VI
ST:III

The others were crap, and shall not be counted.


Guess I could go into more detail...
When it comes to Trek, for me..it comes down to the characters..

II had awesome insight into the characters - Kirk was Spot on, Spock was Spock to the max...McCoy was McCoy.
We See into the heart of Scotty, and this movie was the only time Chekov wasn't an incompetant boob.
Khan is easily the best villian Trek has ever seen. And we meet Saavik, and by the end, she feels like she belongs there. The only things missing were something for Uhura, and Sulu...(who had a promotion scene cut)

IV continued this...we see how close these characters have done, and how they can take nothing and make it into a planet saving adventure. This is really es Spock movie, as we watch him regrow into his role.

VI was an awesome movie for Kirk, McCoy, Spock & Sulu.....the other characters stunk, and so it doesn't get the higher ratings..

III was an Awesome Kirk movie...and watching the Enterprise burn up....that's immotional man.


tng's characters to me have always been flat...I've never liked them. First Contact didn't get into any of the characters, and was just Best of Both Worlds mixed with Voyager Home. Boring.
Insurectionbig errection is more like it the way the characters acted almost had characterization for Picard...cept it contradicted what little characterization the series had given him.

ST:I & ST:V were the same movie...and neither was good.

STVII was so bad..I don't even want to go into it...

[Nightflower]

Insurrection ticked me off to no end. I will elaborate when the words come to me later :P (Apparently they don't at 10 in the morning on a Sunday)

[The Guitar Slayer]

The even ones were better in my opinion (yes, I agree with most of the cast). I'm really more of a TOS fan than of TNG, so after VI, I didn't really analyze them. Funny, because I wasn't even in grade school when VI came out.

I: Lots and lots of special effects; tried to compete with Star Wars too much

II: Some great stuff was dropped out of this one, including a scene where Saavik says she is half Romulan (which explains why she openly cries at Spock's funeral.) Second only to IV.

III: What are they gonna say at the end of the movie if it didn't end like that? "Sorry, we didn't find him..." Still a good movie.

IV: That was a good movie for almost anyone. It interested fans and non-fans.

V: an abomination...Shatner directed and wrote part of it. Sybok's existence basically wiped out several events in Spock's life that were already established. And Scotty running into a pipe...just another poke from Shatner at Doohan...I hate this one.

VI: This is almost as good as IV and as good as II. It brought Spock back almost to where he was before he croaked. He is more at peace with himself. It perfectly sets up TNG. I thought the Klingons were best acted in this one. It gave them more depth than bloody thirsty monsters. Shakespeare is better in its original Klingon...classic.

Drop #5 IMHO. It doesn't really affect #6 or any of the TNG episodes that Spock appeared in.

I watched my Star Trek IV tape until it broke from overusage. That's my favorite.

Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country
Star Trek III: The Search For Spock
Star Trek I: The Motion Picture
Star Trek V: ???? (so bad I can't even remember the bloody title!)

Live Long and Prosper
The Guitar Slayer :cool:

[Calhoun07]

Originally posted by naraht
calhoun...you're silly!

ST:II
ST:IV
ST:VI
ST:III

The others were crap, and shall not be counted.



They all deserve to be counted, hewmon.

[DarkAngel]

Originally posted by naraht
The others were crap, and shall not be counted.



That's really not fair to say at all. There really was a lot to appreciate in STFC. And Insurrection was hardly as bad as everyone says. When I say that, I mean that it's only real problem was in choosing a story more suited to a tv show than a movie. But there were a lot of good moments. I greatly enjoyed Goldsmith's score, the space battle sequence was quite good (as were the ground battles with the flying things), and the crew interaction was a lot of fun to see. No, the story wasn't large-scale, but there was merit to the film, even if it wasn't great.

I also liked Generations. And, from what I've heard, the director's cut of The Motion Picture greatly improves the movie. I heard a lot of positive things said about the movie now. In the past, the only Trek films I've criticized were the 1st and the 5th. Now, with the new cut of the first out, the only terrible movie might be the 5th. In all fairness, I don't know that less than 3 stars can be given to the others. None of the Trek movies, IMO, were unwatchable or stunk. That's just my opinion, of course.

[Maxie Zeus]

Originally posted by DarkAngel
And, from what I've heard, the director's cut of The Motion Picture greatly improves the movie.

There is a Director's Cut? Is it available? I'd be interested in that. I never hated #1 like so many did.

[Calhoun07]

Originally posted by Maxie Zeus


There is a Director's Cut? Is it available? I'd be interested in that. I never hated #1 like so many did.

It's the only version available on DVD, which should make your search for it relatively simple.

[Maxie Zeus]

Originally posted by Calhoun07


It's the only version available on DVD, which should make your search for it relatively simple.

Cool!

Alas, I'm in a tiny town with only a Blockbuster to it, and it suuuuuuuuuuuuucccccckkkkkkkkkkks

Seriously.

I already rented the only 4 DVDs in it that were worthwhile. Every thing else stars Freddy Prinze Jr.

[Naraht]

FINE...

Since everyone is dieing to have me rate ALL of the Trek Movies, here it goes..

ST:II
ST:IV
ST:VI
ST:III


ST:I
ST:V

ST:VIII

ST:IX

Taxes

A quick Death

.

.

A painful death
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Scooby Doo
.
.
.
.
.
.
Martha Stewart &/or Oprah
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
ST:VII


I hope this clears up any comfusion.

[DarkAngel]

Originally posted by naraht

Since everyone is dieing to have me rate ALL of the Trek Movies, here it goes..


This is how I'd rank them:

1. STFC
2. Wrath of Khan
3. Undiscovered Country
4. Search for Spock
5. The Voyage Home
6. Insurrection
7. Generations
8. Motion Picture
9. Final Frontier

I haven't seen the director's cut of the Motion Picture, so I'm considering the original version, which I found slow and boring. For me, it's close between FC and TWOK, so either one could be number one.