Anime jump the shark

[BrendaBat]

Thought it would be fun to discuss (and rant about) anime series that have jumped. Here’s my list.

-Kaleido Star: This show is the reason I made this thread. The first season was great (despite the fact that the main character was an annoying doormat). It was a cute show with an uplifting message about believing in yourself and following your dreams.
Unfortunately, all that changed when season two was produced...
Everyone’s character development was erased. The entire cast became lapdogs to that insane bastard Leon. Sora became an even bigger doormat then before. And she was STILL treated like a stupid noobie by everyone despite pulling off that deus ex maneuver that captivated the entire world at the end of season one.

Sadly, I’m starting to think I’m the only sane fan of this show due to the fact that, whenever I try to search for Kaleido fans on the ‘net, I can only seem to find crazed “OMG leonXsora=kawaii!!1! leon is my bishi”-type fangirls. :sad:

-His and Her Circumstances: Started off strong only to drift into WTF territory and then just end in the middle of a story arc. It didn’t help when, as the series progressed, Gainax used more and more bizarre narrative and animation gimmicks.

[Karl Olson]

-Tenchi Muyo as a Franchise: Tenchi In Tokyo. That show was horrible, and the Tenchi series since then haven't been much to write home about. GXP and the 3rd OVA are fun, but they are stereotypically anime at points that only a hardcore otaku can get into them, and the new Sasami series seems to be a bust too.

Tenchi Muyo as an OVA: Arguably never, as though the 3rd OVA series doesn't hold up to the first two, it does explain everything that was going on, so it is good denouement (outside of resolving that one critical question about who he intends to marry.) Still, you don't quite get the emotional and character cues the sold the first two OVA series until the very last episode.

[Duke]

I'd comment on Kaleido Star, but I've only seen Volume 1 of New Wings.

Gundam SEED Destiny: Athrun defecting back to Orb and the introduction of Destiny & Strike Freedom just made the show crumble. The writing finally went to hell, the technology was unrealistic even for a super robot show, and it seemed virtually impossible for Strike Freedom to get even a scratch. Add that to two clip shows during the final 10 episodes and an overall killing of the momentum during the final quarter adds up to a real disappointing finale. The only bright spot was Cagalli getting Akatsuki and punching Yuna (not to mention the music, sans "Wings of Words"), but even that was tempered by Cags staying on Earth and Mu getting Akatsuki instead.

Excel Saga: It didn't really jump the shark story-wise (except for Episode 26, which is so awful I want to erase it from my memory), but dub-wise, Larissa Wolcott just isn't nearly as awesome as Excel as Jessica Calvello was.

Godannar: Granted, I haven't seen the whole second season yet, but from what I've been able to watch, the second season just isn't as interesting as the first. The theme song isn't as good, the story goes more for drama instead of cheesy awesomeness, and the characters aren't as likable.

Samurai Deeper Kyo: The show was poorly paced to begin with, but I think it got a bit worse the more magic and supernatural things got mixed in. Having Kyo and Kyoshiro inhabit the same body was a good start, but the writers took it a bit too far, introducing monsters and the like, and Lord Tokugawa was just a bad villain. That, and they got rid of wimpy Kyoshiro far too soon.

[Juu-kuchi]

Gundam SEED Destiny: It essentially began to crumble around the Episode 41 "Refrain", while weakening with every episode beforehand. At least at the end of Episode 40, I thought something may come out from the woodworks and at least bring this series into some serviceable conclusion. But when 41 came about, I definitely knew there was something wrong, as if two other recap episodes were enough in some previous episodes ago.
Love Hina: Jumped the shark at a variety of times. It's when those moments of brilliance get offset by moments of slackjawed chiched anime horror that relies on beating a dead horse.

I'll think of more.

[GWOtaku]

Black Cat: Started off with good storytelling, then went to an adventure/shonen formula, then became completely nonsensical after the Creed plotline ended in the 19th episode. Most unfortunate, the manga seems to hold up far better.

[oofadoofa]

Am I seriously the only one who LIKED Tenchi in Tokyo?

[Classic Speedy]

Excel Saga: It didn't really jump the shark story-wise (except for Episode 26, which is so awful I want to erase it from my memory), but dub-wise, Larissa Wolcott just isn't nearly as awesome as Excel as Jessica Calvello was. The second half of the series was definitely not as good as the first half, though I didn't think it was primarily due to the voice change; while Wolcott took some getting used to (and I do prefer Calvello's version), she filled in nicely and didn't sound -radically- different to be really distracting. A few episodes simply weren't funny for the most part. Episodes 22-25 were too serious for my liking (especially the "no jokes" meta-joke from episode 24, which was cute the first time until I realized I'd much rather have actual jokes), and some of the humor became more hit or miss than the first 13. Especially odd is how they felt a -second- clip show was warranted, even though the show was only 26 episodes.

That said, the second half of Excel Saga had probably my favorite episode of the series: "Animation USA".

[Conan-san]

Tsubassa Chronicale: Um, I'd place it some point during the Hansen arc, when it stopped being about stands, sorry, Kudan, and more of a gratuious self wank on bee-train's part. (Oh look, we'll totaly disregard the whole thing and make Sakura wonder about when she HAS NO FEATHERS BACK, makes TOTAL SENCE!!! WE'R'SMART!) *ahem*

It got worse with the Oto arc, finaly it stoped being Tsubassa: Resivor Chronicale and was now fully .hack//sign with CLAMP chracters.
And no, I say that with no iorny. NONE
NO IRONY FOR YOU.

Simply put, you mess with the drunk fai and sakura gag, and your gonna get Hundred Crack Fist'd

[Zeonic Freak]

Am I seriously the only one who LIKED Tenchi in Tokyo?

Yea, i thought Tenchi in Tokyo was really good, being 14 at the time watching it on CN...

[EscaflownePilot]

Am I seriously the only one who LIKED Tenchi in Tokyo?No, not at all. I still don't think it's anywhere near the OVA's quality, but I liked it about as much as Universe, I think. Of course, I haven't seen it since it aired on Toonami, and that came at a time when I was still new to anime, so I was more apt to eat up anything that I could find... but even so, what I remember of it I really did find enjoyable.

[Mek]

Digimon 02 - Right after Ken became good and when Arachnemon and Mummymon appeared. After that, the show devolved into an unintelligable drone fest where I couldn't even tell what the hell was going on.

Didn't help when the creepy old guy and Demon appeared and started rounding up children either. Then there's the last episode, which was the ultimate JTS moment. May have been the last episode, but that was THE classic 'deus ex machina' moment right there, people.

After that, the Digimon series kinda took a dive, popularity wise. Which is a shame, because Tamers was pretty good... until the last few episodes, anyways.

F-Zero: Falcon Densetsu/GP Legend
Primarily in the 30 range when it was revealed Captain Falcon was Jody's supposedly dead brother. Totally killed all the emotional value from Episode 9 and after the 30-range episode began, the show took a HUGE nosedive in quality and never truly recovered until the last 2 episodes.

... Then they kill off Captain Falcon and make the King Mary Sue, Rick Wheeler, the new Captain Falcon.

All I can say is this: Be thankful 4Kids never dubbed the rest of the series. The rest of the 20-range was good and I'm sad those didn't get dubbed, but after that? Horrible. Nintendo would make a wise move to sweep this under the rug and forget it ever happened with the next game installment.

[Luna]

Am I seriously the only one who LIKED Tenchi in Tokyo?Don't get me wrong...I liked Tenchi in Tokyo,just not as much as Tenchi Universe,the movies,and the original OAV series.....I just didn't like Sakuya,the new girl/love interest for Tenchi(I do like her voice actress,though,Julie Maddelena,and I do like every other character she's voiced)...

[Juu-kuchi]

Geez, COMPLETELY forgot about Digimon 02. I remained faithful hoping that the new plot developments post Digimon Emperor would eventually find their way to a competent end, but nooooo... We had to deal with THAT ending of all endings, which was made even worse by making one of my least favorite renditions of the "10 Years Later" Epilogue cliche.

Anyway, back to jump the shark moments...

-Nerima Daikon Bros. - I'd say about um... Episode 5, when after another supporting character was introduced in the previous episode, the show just continues on its formula without any form of deviation from it. Granted to some extent it was still funny (but then again I was watching it with a group), but in the end one could say that was a jump the shark moment.
-Yumeria - Looking back at it again I'd have to say that from episode 1 it jumped the shark. Going into a dreamland! Girl companions in scantily clad uniforms! Can't do diddly squat, my only purpose is to fondle them so that I can give my powers to them so they can kill stuff! I have no idea why I decided to give this series a go.

[Duke]

Am I seriously the only one who LIKED Tenchi in Tokyo?
Even back when it was on Toonami I knew it sucked. The animation wasn't as good, I hated the new voices, and any action show where all the problems were solved by a freaking hug just isn't acceptable.

Plus, it never felt like a Tenchi show. There was no lightsaber, Jurai was barely there, there was very little mysticism involved, and the characters lacked any nuance the previous 2 series gave them (and had horrible animation to boot).

That, and the giant, purple, cell-phone monster. Ugh.

[Dark Fact]

Digimon 02 - Right after Ken became good and when Arachnemon and Mummymon appeared. After that, the show devolved into an unintelligable drone fest where I couldn't even tell what the hell was going on.

Didn't help when the creepy old guy and Demon appeared and started rounding up children either. Then there's the last episode, which was the ultimate JTS moment. May have been the last episode, but that was THE classic 'deus ex machina' moment right there, people.
A-freakin'-greed. the Digimon Emperor saga was awesome as all heck but after that, the show went kaput. Arukenimon and Mummymom were brought in for the sake of filling up the rest of the season with no real buildup to their debut and MaloMyotismon was a joke. The ending still leaves me scarred for life. I'm just amazed "Davis" didn't become a military drill instructor.

[Karl Olson]

Even back when it was on Toonami I knew it sucked. The animation wasn't as good, I hated the new voices, and any action show where all the problems were solved by a freaking hug just isn't acceptable.

Plus, it never felt like a Tenchi show. There was no lightsaber, Jurai was barely there, there was very little mysticism involved, and the characters lacked any nuance the previous 2 series gave them (and had horrible animation to boot).

That, and the giant, purple, cell-phone monster. Ugh.

Exactly. I think if you'd taken the basic plot and transplanted it to a new cast rather than a established group, it'd have been a lot more acceptable and watchable. Instead, you have characters and a setting that used to be very multi-dimensional with great back-stories reduced to parodies of themselves, and you get the weakest villain the franchise has ever seen. I mean, Tenchi in the OVAs is effectively a god, where as in Tokyo, he's just some dude from a long line humans charged with defending the earth.

[Ishtar]

The Dragon Ball series has defaintly jumped the shark. The Majin Buu Saga is where it officially jumped the Shark. A lot of the stuff in the Buu Saga ripped off the Cell Saga, Goten and Trunks were able to become Super Saiyans at such young ages (which really takes away the special feel being a Super Saiyan once had), and what was meant to build up Gohan's role of being the new saver of the Earth was all taken away when Goku came back to life and defeated Majin Buu himself. Goku leaving his family and friends to train by himeself with Uub was also a stupid ending for Z because Goku should really be taking care of his kids and training them.

[Mek]

A-freakin'-greed. the Digimon Emperor saga was awesome as all heck but after that, the show went kaput. Arukenimon and Mummymom were brought in for the sake of filling up the rest of the season with no real buildup to their debut and MaloMyotismon was a joke. The ending still leaves me scarred for life. I'm just amazed "Davis" didn't become a military drill instructor.

As much as I liked those two, I really felt there needed to be more to their story. Heck, I wouldn't have minded if the Digimon Emperor saga went on for a little bit longer, but that's just me. Some good stories came out of that... not so much so afterwards.

What's really sad is that I found Beast Machines to be more entertaining than Digimon 02 at that point in time (as I believe both were on the air at the same time).

Given the choice between two series with indecipherable plots that end with either techno-organic hippies or 'Everything can be beaten with the POWAH OF LUV AN' DREAMZ!'... I'd take the techno-organic hippies.

[Rolling Cloud]

Inuyasha: This show jumped the shark the minute they brought Kikyo back for the second time. The first time with the clay body was cool along with her falling down a cliff! But, once she came back AGAIN and possibly reappearing again! I've lost respect for this show!

Gantz: Jumped the shark the minute that everyone died on the first mission! The frikin FIRST mission

[Dark Fact]

As much as I liked those two, I really felt there needed to be more to their story. Heck, I wouldn't have minded if the Digimon Emperor saga went on for a little bit longer, but that's just me. Some good stories came out of that... not so much so afterwards.
There was an episode that foreshadowed "The Dark Sea" arc which I believe was supposed to have taken place after the events of the Digimon Emperor saga but was thrown away in place of Arukenimon and Mummymon. It was a very annoying loose end.

[veemonjosh]

I personally think that the Digimon franchise as a whole jumped the shark when Frontier started.

I mean, in Frontier, they just threw out the entire interaction of the Digimon and their human partners, and gave us the whole SPIRIT EVOLUTION crap.

And the Lucemon ending was just thrown together at the last minute to make a terrible ending.

Thank god they used the next three years to get their act together and made the infinately better Savers.


There was an episode that foreshadowed "The Dark Sea" arc which I believe was supposed to have taken place after the events of the Digimon Emperor saga but was thrown away in place of Arukenimon and Mummymon. It was a very annoying loose end.

The Dark Ocean was the biggest waste of a possible arc that I've ever seen in an anime.

And the dub for the first Dark Ocean episode was the worst Saban dub of an episode ever.

[Juu-kuchi]

And the dub for the first Dark Ocean episode was the worst Saban dub of an episode ever. Indeed. Why did Saban always feel the need to give a passing mention to the "National Guard" every other quote and/or episode?

Inu Yasha jumped the shark the moment Naraku appeared, and the fact that arrogant snot did not die, even at the last episode of Inu Yasha. Why the hell did they just not end the series with Naraku dead?

[J'onn J'onzz]

So I'm the only one who actually likes post-Digimon Emperor 02?

Though, I agree with Josh, Frontier jumped the shark. I hated that series so much.

[Conan-san]

Wans't the dark ocean episode Konaka's doing?

Cuz that would explain a few things, forsure.

[GWOtaku]

So I'm the only one who actually likes post-Digimon Emperor 02?

Maybe it wasn't awful, but I think we can all agree that the "friendship conquers all evil!" ending is so cliche its far past ridiculous.

[veemonjosh]

So I'm the only one who actually likes post-Digimon Emperor 02?

I loved those episodes.

It's just, you know, so much wasted potential (Dark Ocean, Daemon, Dragomon, ect).

[KuwabaraTheMan]

02's ending sucked, but the post Digimon Kaizer episodes were the best ones. The Arachnemon and Mummymon and then Black War Greymon episodes were great, as was the World Tour and Demon. It just had a lousy ending.

Gundam SEED Destiny jumped the shark in Episode 39, but everyone already knew that...

Death Note jumped the shark when Mikami screwed up.


Wans't the dark ocean episode Konaka's doing?

Cuz that would explain a few things, forsure.

Yeah, Konaka wrote that episode.

[FightingDreamer]

Maybe it wasn't awful, but I think we can all agree that the "friendship conquers all evil!" ending is so cliche its far past ridiculous.

I think the main problem with the post-Emperor episodes is wasted potential. You have all these intriguing plotlines (Dark Ocean, Daemon, etc.), and virtually nothing is done with them. And the ending does indeed suck most heinously: Even in a fantasy series like Digimon, where positive thinking is often encouraged by the characters, the defeat of MaloMyotismon is total bull. And the epilogue.... WHY??????

[AstroNerdBoy]

For Love Hina, it was the Love Hina Again OAV, which to be fair came from the manga (where the manga jumped the shark because of Keitaro's adopted sister). Still, the manga did manage to recover but we never got another anime to recover.

For Maburaho, it was the 2nd-half of the anime where a new teacher was introduced and one of the female characters (Yuuna) became insanely jealous.

[veemonjosh]

I think the main problem with the post-Emperor episodes is wasted potential. You have all these intriguing plotlines (Dark Ocean, Daemon, etc.), and virtually nothing is done with them. And the ending does indeed suck most heinously: Even in a fantasy series like Digimon, where positive thinking is often encouraged by the characters, the defeat of MaloMyotismon is total bull. And the epilogue.... WHY??????

I'll take "Kuwabara's Theory That the Epilogue Was Just a Fake Ending and Malomyotismon Really Killed Them" for 1000.

[Naruto D.Luffy]

Love Hina- Just finished watching it, I thought it was utter crap.Nothing likejumping the shark on the very first epidsode. Tama the turtle, which was just a character you would see every 2-3 pages was now an invincible god . The damn thing like palyed an important part in every epidsode. Manga chapters were randomly put together to make 1 epidsode. Ending sucked big time. Also, somehow each character annoyed me.
THANK YOU THE GREAT AND ALMIGHTY XEBEC

Shaman King- This show was just fine, until Yoh and the others reached America. Say hello to the the world of SK filler Shaman Tournament. Nothing but rushed fight, pointless filler characters and so on.

AGAIN THANK YOU XEBEC

[rubberchicken]

Gundam SEED Destiny:

Kira and Lacus' return in the mid-teens. From that point on I kept being reminded of why I didn't like SEED.

Hellsing:

When they ran out of canon plot after the Valentine Brothers. Actually, one episode later, because I prefer the Gonzo handling of the flashback episode to the way Hirano originally did it. But the whole Incognito thing was garbage.

[JShaggy]

Gantz: Jumped the shark the minute that everyone died on the first mission! The frikin FIRST mission
Trust me when I say this, but
the whole series goes straight to hell after the third mission. They went as far as making Kei Kurono a target right afterwards.

It that isn't some messed up [expletive deleted], then I don't know what is.

[rubberchicken]

Another one.

Aura Battler Dunbine:

After all of the soldiers from Byston Well got sent to the surface around two-thirds of the way through. When that happened the series lost a big part of what made it special (the setting) and never got it back.

Plus, the storyline ground to a halt shortly after that, with a long stretch in the middle where they repeat the same "Hey, we've got a new plan to take down the Gaea Garing/aw crap, it didn't work! Run away! Run away!" formula over and over. Drake, the villain, barely does anything until not too long before the end. Then, when the ending finally rolls around, it's like Tomino said "Wait, what have we been doing for the past twenty episodes! We need a solution fast! I know, let's kill everybody off in the space of two episodes with no fanfare whatsoever! It worked for Ideon, didn't it?" Well, it didn't work here.

[Megalon]

"Aura Battler Dunbine" is a classic "Jump the shark" example. It's doubly painful
because there was no good reason for that particular shake-up in the first place. Things were moving along nicely just as they were, and if they had just left well enough alone, even if maybe not brilliant, the last 25% of the show certainly would have been much better than what we got. Probably one of the most disappointing, waste of potential shows ever.

[Jacob T. Paschal]

I liked all of 02, outside of the epilogue.

Death Note jumped when...
When Part II began.

[rubberchicken]

Fullmetal Alchemist:

The moment it diverged from the manga. :gir:

OK, so it's actually better than that, but I keep comparing what's happening in the anime to the manga, and the anime keeps coming up short. Granted, I'm not done with either.

[GWOtaku]

posted by Kuwabaratheman:

Gundam SEED Destiny jumped the shark in Episode 40, but everyone already knew that...

Fixed. Akatsuki + Cagalli stepping up = good.

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Fixed. Akatsuki + Cagalli stepping up = good.

You're talking to the forum's #1 Cagalli hater here, though.

Although I did enjoy Episodes 44 and 45, but they can't make up for everything else, really.

[Elven Moon]

Nadia: Secret of Blue Water The first half was great - it was clever, fun, and the animation didn't even give away it's age. But by the second half The animation took a nosedive and became very cartoony, the island and Africa episodes felt filler and pointless, and the Jean/Nadia relationship was so weird that by the time they officially got together it was very anti-climatic!

Pokemon I think it jumped around the second or third season. The formula of episodes became ever more obvious, but now a little boring, and if they keep pulling new Pokenon out of the woodwork Ash will NEVER become a master!

[megachao24]

Pilot Canidate:

After Zero first meets Erts, the show just geos into overdrive and catches up to Ernest's death in a matter of 5 episodes... and that's where the manga was at that in time, unfinished. The show was dead by though, so the last 3 episodes don't really matter.


Thank you Xebec for screwing up some potential.

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Pokemon I think it jumped around the second or third season. The formula of episodes became ever more obvious, but now a little boring, and if they keep pulling new Pokenon out of the woodwork Ash will NEVER become a master!

Yeah, but it jumped back during Advanced Generation. Particularly during Battle Frontier, which was the best saga in the show's history. So it had more like a really long stretch of mediocrity, than truly jumping the shark.

[TnAdct1]

My list of "anime Jump the Shark" moments:

Dragon Ball Z: the Majin Buu arc

Pokemon: Filler episode overkill during the Johto arc

Negima (Xebec): Instead of using it to do a "seven-episode" arc that ends the season, the Kyoto arc, which is one of the coolest parts of the manga, gets shortened to two episodes (with all the great parts being cut out), and the last few episodes ends up focusing on an anime-only story in which Asuna dies (insert "THANKS, XEBEC" crack here)

Negima (SHAFT): Everyone discovers Negi's secret life as a wizard at the show's halfway point

[Juu-kuchi]

Agreed on Negima Xebec. But your grievance on SHAFT Negima is also understandable, but then again, considering it's 26 episodes, it perhaps was bound to eventually happen. But at least it didn't happen like on the Xebec version.

[Duke]

So I'm the only one who actually likes post-Digimon Emperor 02?
Eh, parts were OK. I liked many of the BlackWarGreymon episodes and the Demon trilogy, but the rest were meh at best.

Then again, many of the Digimon Emperor episodes were meh at best too. It didn't help that Digimon 02's animation sucked horribly, even for a Sunday morning show.



Pokemon I think it jumped around the second or third season. The formula of episodes became ever more obvious, but now a little boring, and if they keep pulling new Pokenon out of the woodwork Ash will NEVER become a master!
I think the show rebounded with Advanced Generation, (which is my personal favorite season) and from what I hear, Diamond & Pearl is pretty good too. Here's hoping Diamond and Pearl does Diamond & Pearl justice.

Then again, Johto's only real redeeming factor was the music. Personally, I found the Johto openings/endings to be the most consistent, high-quality themes of the show. While Advance Adventure, Sora ni, Glory Day, Battle Frontier, and Polka O' Dolka were excellent, the rest of the songs ranged from suck to OK, whereas few of the Johto songs were bad.

[TnAdct1]

Agreed on Negima Xebec. But your grievance on SHAFT Negima is also understandable, but then again, considering it's 26 episodes, it perhaps was bound to eventually happen. But at least it didn't happen like on the Xebec version. While it probably may have worked if handled differently, the idea of everyone discovering Negi's secret (and making Pactios with him) midway through the series ruined it for two reasons:

1. SHAFT was now forced to insert all 31 girls in each episodes, which resulted in less time for story development and less screen time for those girls who Pactioed before everyone discovered Negi's secret (i.e. Nodoka).

2. Of those girls that took part in the mass Pactio, only four of them had their Pactios activated before the final episode (not including the awful "suka" episode).

[Gatomon41]

The Dark Ocean was the biggest waste of a possible arc that I've ever seen in an anime.


Maybe because it wasn't never meant to be an arc. Ever heard of Lovecraft's "Shadow over Innsmoth"? That's because Dagomon's Call was a homage to the short story.

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Maybe because it wasn't never meant to be an arc. Ever heard of Lovecraft's "Shadow over Innsmoth"? That's because Dagomon's Call was a homage to the short story.

Dagomon himself was inspired by Lovecraft, yes. But I believe there may have been an intention to initially have something more.

Another interesting note is that when Demon is banished to the Dark Ocean, he says "That's...Dagomon's Ocean!". It's possible there was originally intended to be a 3rd series in the Adventure arc, focusing on the Dark Ocean. Given that Konaka(who wrote the Dagomon episode) wound up being the Head Writer for Tamers, it's possible he was always intended to be the head writer for the 3rd series, and plans just shifted in regards to what that would entail.

[Gatomon41]

Dagomon himself was inspired by Lovecraft, yes. But I believe there may have been an intention to initially have something more.
But that's how Lofecraftian horror works. There's something dark, creepy out there, and we never get to see the whole picture. We only get glimpses of the horror, and never get to see it. There's just enough to creep the viewer out, and then leave the viewer wondering what they just saw.


Another interesting note is that when Demon is banished to the Dark Ocean, he says "That's...Dagomon's Ocean!". It's possible there was originally intended to be a 3rd series in the Adventure arc, focusing on the Dark Ocean. Given that Konaka(who wrote the Dagomon episode) wound up being the Head Writer for Tamers, it's possible he was always intended to be the head writer for the 3rd series, and plans just shifted in regards to what that would entail.
And then agian, alot of Digimon 02 episodes were meant only to be one shots. As far as I know, Konaka only wrote one episode for 02 before working on Tamers.

[KuwabaraTheMan]

And then agian, alot of Digimon 02 episodes were meant only to be one shots. As far as I know, Konaka only wrote one episode for 02 before working on Tamers.

Given the Dark Ocean was referenced several other times, played a role in Ken's backstory, and Dagomon was mentioned by name later on, I think there may have been plans that got scrapped.

It's true that Konaka only wrote the one episode, but as I mentioned, there could have originally been plans for a 3rd Adventure series, or something along those lines. It seems like bigger plans were there, but got dropped. Or perhaps Digimon Adventure 02 was initially going to be 52 episodes, and the 2 episode cut back resulted in removing a return to the Dark Ocean.

We may never know.

[Patches]

Inuyasha: The second or third time Inuyasha gets a powerup, is able to use it once, Naraku still gets away, then develops a resistance to it by their next encounter. The current Tenseiga plot twist in the manga has the potential to either be a restorative point to the series, or the ultimate shark jump, depending on how it's resolved.

KIBA: The entire series. No, seriously. I can't believe I watched the entire 51 episode run. The only thing keeping you watching is wondering if a plot will surface in the next episode. One finally did around episode 45.

Final Fantasy Unlimited: The Ocean Puzzle arc. I mean, come on. Was that really necessary?

[Gatomon41]

Given the Dark Ocean was referenced several other times, played a role in Ken's backstory, and Dagomon was mentioned by name later on, I think there may have been plans that got scrapped

It's true that Konaka only wrote the one episode, but as I mentioned, there could have originally been plans for a 3rd Adventure series, or something along those lines. It seems like bigger plans were there, but got dropped. Or perhaps Digimon Adventure 02 was initially going to be 52 episodes, and the 2 episode cut back resulted in removing a return to the Dark Ocean.

We may never know.
Naturally. It's just all speculation. Although, with the abundance of stand-alone episodes in early 02, and Konaka's perchance to make Lovecraft adapations, its more likely to be a mere passing homage.

Which reminds me, here's a summary of any Lovecraftian Horror (http://www.rinkworks.com/bookaminute/b/lovecraft.shtml) :p

[Conan-san]

Bleach: "Are they still on Namak?" By the third or so time Ichigo lost enough blood to make a blood bank sponianiuosly combust it just got too stupid for my liking.

[MeggieMay]

Gundam SEED Destiny - IMO, the only thing that's debatable about it jumping the shark is when did it do it and how bad was it :D. I thought it had finally lost it around the early 40's when we stopped the plot cold to go on a shopping trip to a mall on the moon! but there were earlier problems in the show, such as the episode in the mid 20's that introduced the Hot Springs Bath on the ArchAngel [uh, just how practical is it to install something like that on a space ship? Does anyone realize what happens when you mix water and no/low gravity?? Not to mention Capt. Ramius likes to roll the AA all the time, as well :lol: ]

That said, I still like GSD a great deal and would love to see more (it helps that when I see a show that goes goofy, half the time I find it funny and just follow along with it, plus I got a lot of free giggles out of the wacky things that happened at times during GSD :anime:). Which brings me to another show I have similar feelings for - Kiddy Grade.

IMO Kiddy Grade jumped around Ep 19, when they basically ran out of the original plot. Not a good thing when you're a 24 episode show ;) . Mild spoilers here for KG but not specific enough, IMO, to warrent spoiler cover. First they padded the show out with a clone plotline that didn't make all that much sense and then they introduced a terraforming ship that turned into a super sized Mecha. Ok, why in the world would anyone build a terraforming ship that turns into big a** mecha, anyway? :eek: I mean other than this was a Gonzo show and they seem to like to stick in random mecha at times, whether or not a story needs it :sweat:. Still, I didn't end up hating the show, unlike one person I've met who wants the time she spent watching the show back :hehe: .

On the subject of random mecha and Gonzo, my last show for now in this category is GateKeepers and GateKeepers 21. Both shows are mediocre as individual shows, IMO with GateKeepers having mecha seemingly show up just because someone thought the show needed it (it really didn't). However, that could have been something that came over from the manga it's based on. The real jump here was with GateKeepers 21. While the animation is really gorgeous, the plot is so so as a stand alone and totally horrid as a continuation. The problem, IMO, is that we go from GateKeepers, where the lead male and female had finally told each other they cared for each other to a show set 32 years later where we find out they never did end up together and the lead male from the first series married another person, had a kid, got himself killed, and the kid (the lead girl for GK 21) ends up angry and hateful towards her dad thus continuing the cycle that started back in GK :mad:. Toss in that the main bad guy in GateKeepers is now the head of the group that were the good guys in that show and that you have to go online or read the manga to find out all the details on this, and GateKeepers/GateKeepers 21 turned out not only to be a mess but a downer as well :( .

Unlike Kiddy Grade and GSD, I ended up not really caring at all for GK/GK 21. Gonzo may have managed to make GK/GK 21 a bit more sensical than Kiddy Grade but Kiddy Grade was a lot more fun, at least for me.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Thought it would be fun to discuss (and rant about) anime series that have jumped. Here’s my list.

-Kaleido Star: This show is the reason I made this thread. The first season was great (despite the fact that the main character was an annoying doormat). It was a cute show with an uplifting message about believing in yourself and following your dreams.



.

I thought Sora was a bit stereotypical, but I wouldn't say she was a doormat. She did have certain amount of pride, which is the reason she kept perservering through her adversities. It's different from Layla pride, but you still can't say Sora didn't have a competitive edge to her. Sora wanted to win, plain and simple.

[80's guy]

Am I seriously the only one who LIKED Tenchi in Tokyo?

I like it.

Evangelion jump, when they episode 25 and 26

[Naruto D.Luffy]

Bleach- Bount Arc. Can anyone anyone say worse use of 40+ epidsodes?

Also, got to "love" Xebec for their great contributions.

[OverMaster]

Saber Marionette J to X jumped the shark after Episode 15, when they tried to shove almost ten episodes of melodrama down our throats, not learning what really made the drama good in the first series was it was given in small, reasonable doses.

Thankfully, the show recovered in its great, emotional finale.

[Fresh V]

Blood+ - It was so awesome for the first three quarters of the way. But eventually it just got boring and repetitive.

[Han Ji-Eun]

Sailor Moon:

Ok, this anime completely died when the fourth series, SuperS, began. The first three series were really interesting, and the third series, S, was the absolute best of the whole show - it had the best action, many new characters, a deeper and darker plot, etc. When the fourth season started, it was nothing but a farce of the original show, and it was clear that the writers for the anime were trying to make the show funnier or lighter or something. All this meant was that the enemies became a joke, they didn't bring back Uranus, Neptune, Pluto, or any of the other new characters that were introduced, and most of the MOTW were reused plots from the past three series.

The original Dream Arc of the manga, which SuperS was based on, was actually quite serious (and it was good). It's focal point was, instead of Usagi, ChibiUsa, and what her role would be in the future. Since ChibiUsa is a kid, I'm assuming that the SuperS creators took the opportunity to make the show silly. That was a dumb idea.

The horrible mess that was SuperS was corrected, slightly, in the opening episodes of Stars (series 5), where all of the senshi are brought together to defeat Nehellenia once and for all. However, the rest of Stars was just as crappy as SuperS, since they changed a lot of the plot and actually had those freaking Starlights BECOME MEN in their non-transformed states. Ew.

If you all want the short version of what I just said: The show became crappy once it deviated from the manga.

[Megalon]

I already said everything about this one I needed to on the "best/worst Anime" thread, so I'll just copy it here:
Slayers Try:It just didn't have the magic of the first two. The animation (never the Slayers strong point) was just reprehensibly bad with characters off model and every shortcut in the book. Even worse than that I found most of the humor to be unbearably lame. I mean what in the blue blazes was up with that fish episode anyway? The story should have worked, but somehow just couldn't hold my interest at all. The new characters I did like quite a bit actually, to bad they were in this lame show. The exceptions are Valgaav's two sidekicks. Stupidest characters in Slayers history, and not in a funny way either! Kickass OP though:cool:
Can't believe I spent 100$ to buy the box set:shrug:

[OverMaster]

I already said everything about this one I needed to on the "best/worst Anime" thread, so I'll just copy it here:
Slayers Try:It just didn't have the magic of the first two. The animation (never the Slayers strong point) was just reprehensibly bad with characters off model and every shortcut in the book. Even worse than that I found most of the humor to be unbearably lame. I mean what in the blue blazes was up with that fish episode anyway? The story should have worked, but somehow just couldn't hold my interest at all. The new characters I did like quite a bit actually, to bad they were in this lame show. The exceptions are Valgaav's two sidekicks. Stupidest characters in Slayers history, and not in a funny way either! Kickass OP though:cool:
Can't believe I spent 100$ to buy the box set:shrug:

Guravos, I'll give you that one, but Jillas never failed to amuse me with his gun-and-bombs approach to battling magic.

Personally, I liked Try better than the first Slayers series, but neither of them came close to the awesomeness of Next.

[ReijiAzuma]

Trigun:

When Brad got killed (which is pretty much the moment where it quit following the manga in any way). After that there was barely any action or humor. It was, "Oh, it's so sad, Wolfwood died, Vash had to kill and becomes suicidal as a result." One tragedy after another. I honestly checked the credits and DVD case to make sure I was watching the same series.

Dragonball Z:

When Cell was introduced. The whole storyline after he showed up was ludicrous. It jumped back with the Buu Saga though.

Inuyasha:

After Inuyasha defeats the creature that killed his father. The Band of 7 arc was actually pretty good, .but everything aside from that was pure hell. Anytime Inuyasha and Kagome actually made some sort of development in their relationship it immediately was forgotten in the following episode. More and more filler episodes started to get made. Miroku and Sango were all but pushed to the background. Inuyasha started to just spam his Windscar ability nonstop.

Naruto:

After the Zabusa arc ended and Orochimaru showed up.

Slayers: Slayers Try. Not even Filia could save it.

[Jacob T. Paschal]

You can't be serious, the Cell arc brought some mystery to the series for a while, added some strong character arc for Son Gohan and would've easily ended nicely without the Buu arc. Buu was shaping up to be something great until Toriyama was forced into shoving Son Gokū back into the spotlight. Honestly, I'm hurt Toriyama, you can make dramatic super fights but you can't fight your own fans.

[Riku]

Naruto:

When the Rescue Sasuke mission failed. I almost stopped watching the anime and reading the manga because of it. I seriously could make a list of every flaw in the series and it would all lead to Sasuke. He's almost as bad as Lana Lang on Smallville.

*sigh* I just knew the series had died then and there.

[HellCat]

Gundam SEED Destiny - IMO, the only thing that's debatable about it jumping the shark is when did it do it and how bad was it :D. I thought it had finally lost it around the early 40's when we stopped the plot cold to go on a shopping trip to a mall on the moon! but there were earlier problems in the show, such as the episode in the mid 20's that introduced the Hot Springs Bath on the ArchAngel [uh, just how practical is it to install something like that on a space ship? Does anyone realize what happens when you mix water and no/low gravity?? Not to mention Capt. Ramius likes to roll the AA all the time, as well :lol: ]



Ugh, that shopping trip...it was like something out of a bad fanfic "A madman with a god complex has the world held to ransom, he must be stopped!!...But not before I find a cute dress". And this is why there's a major divide between standard and SEED fans, ladies and gentlemen.

[Duke]

And this is why there's a major divide between standard and SEED fans, ladies and gentlemen.
Well, many SEED fans don't exactly like it either.

[HellCat]

Well, many SEED fans don't exactly like it either.

I'm more mean the target market, the kind of kids who are the reason Gundam Ace gives away posters of the Minerva crew as goths.

[Lutochris]

Pokemon bounced back with AG temporarily, but it wasn't long before it got back to doing the same old crap over and over again. The only good thing was that since they now has Contests as well as Gyms there was less overall filler. But once they got settled in to the pattern after May decided to be a coordinator, it was just as dull as Johto. And DP looks like it'll be the same story.

The movies, on the other hand, seem to get better every year.

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Pokemon bounced back with AG temporarily, but it wasn't long before it got back to doing the same old crap over and over again. The only good thing was that since they now has Contests as well as Gyms there was less overall filler. But once they got settled in to the pattern after May decided to be a coordinator, it was just as dull as Johto. And DP looks like it'll be the same story.

I disagree. Okay, the middle portion of the Houen Saga was kind of dull, but the end was strong, and Battle Frontier was amazing.

DP hasn't been quite as good, but it's still enjoyable. It just lacks Haruka, who was the biggest reason for AG being great.

[RomanMack]

But DP's got Hikari/Dawn. She's not interesting? :sweat:

[KuwabaraTheMan]

But DP's got Hikari/Dawn. She's not interesting? :sweat:

Hikari's good. But she's no Haruka, that's for sure. She'll probably never be quite as interesting as Haruka.

Not to mention it lacks Shuu, who was one of the best rival characters ever.

[MeggieMay]

I'm more mean the target market, the kind of kids who are the reason Gundam Ace gives away posters of the Minerva crew as goths.You have a link to a scan of that? :anime: That's a picture I'd love to see (then again I collect pictures out of the Anime Suki Ridiculous Picture threads, so collecting wacky pictures of different animes is kind of a hobby of mine ;) ).

[BrendaBat]

Arg. I can’t believe I forgot to include Digimon 02! My sister and I used to watch it every Saturday morning and, when we saw the final episode, we yelled at the TV (it really freaked out our parents). That epilogue was just insane. The power of Digi-love saves the world!? Matt grows up to be an astronaut!? WTF? :mad:



Originally posted by Megalon
Slayers Try:It just didn't have the magic of the first two. The animation (never the Slayers strong point) was just reprehensibly bad with characters off model and every shortcut in the book. Even worse than that I found most of the humor to be unbearably lame. I mean what in the blue blazes was up with that fish episode anyway? The story should have worked, but somehow just couldn't hold my interest at all. The new characters I did like quite a bit actually, to bad they were in this lame show. The exceptions are Valgaav's two sidekicks. Stupidest characters in Slayers history, and not in a funny way either! Kickass OP though It was the worst of the three seasons; I’ll give ya that. I also agree that all the new villains were lame (except Jillas. I liked him). But I wouldn’t call it a shark jump because it was still fun to watch and that’s really all that matters with a show like Slayers.
However, there was one moment in TRY that still ticks me off and almost made me give up on the whole season…
It was the gang’s first fight with Valgaav. It REALLY bugs me that Lina was so eager to use the Giga Slave the moment it looked like she might lose. I mean, in NEXT, she didn’t even consider it until most of her friends were dead! How could the writers forget something that important!?

[CyberCubed]

But DP's got Hikari/Dawn. She's not interesting? :sweat:

Dawn is a great character, but she doesn't have the same impact as May did since Contests aren't new anymore. Her rivals also pale in comparison to Drew and Harley thus far, (although since her rival is seemingly a lesbian, this may lead to the first yuri ship in Pokemon later on), but she has fantastic Pokemon.

I don't like her as much as May, but she's quickly becoming my second favorite.

[Rolling Cloud]

(although since her rival is seemingly a lesbian, this may lead to the first yuri ship in Pokemon later on), but she has fantastic Pokemon.

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

I thought it was bad when Gay Harley was on, but a lesbian? HOLY HELL?!!?!?!?

[Megalon]

I thought it was bad when Gay Harley was on, but a lesbian? HOLY HELL?!!?!?!?
Whats so bad about lesbians?:sweat:


It was the worst of the three seasons; I’ll give ya that. I also agree that all the new villains were lame (except Jillas. I liked him). But I wouldn’t call it a shark jump because it was still fun to watch and that’s really all that matters with a show like Slayers.
However, there was one moment in TRY that still ticks me off and almost made me give up on the whole season…
It was the gang’s first fight with Valgaav. It REALLY bugs me that Lina was so eager to use the Giga Slave the moment it looked like she might lose. I mean, in NEXT, she didn’t even consider it until most of her friends were dead! How could the writers forget something that important!?
Well, I guess I couldn't say it was a total waste. I did get some enjoyment out of it. And I did like Valgaav, Fillia, and that guy from the other world (can't remember his name), and I liked how Xellos was played as more evil than in Next. And of course the theme song is my favorite Slayers OP. So there is some good there. But the bad just completely overwhelms it, and when it was bad, it was DEEP HURTING bad! What you mentioned in you're spoiler is a perfect example. And the customary "mid-season comedy filler eps" that were so much fun in the first two installments, here were just:o:eek::mad:

[Duke]

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

I thought it was bad when Gay Harley was on, but a lesbian? HOLY HELL?!!?!?!?
She's not a stereotypical, borderline offensive character like Harley was. Pretty much the only thing "lesbian" about her is basically her character design and some parts of her personality.

Then again, considering how touchy-feely typical schoolgirls are in anime, it's nowhere near as bad as it could be (if, say, Fox was making the show). After all, Diamond & Pearl is, overall, a bit more shojo-heavy than previous seasons.

[Master Moron]

You can't be serious, the Cell arc brought some mystery to the series for a while, added some strong character arc for Son Gohan and would've easily ended nicely without the Buu arc. Buu was shaping up to be something great until Toriyama was forced into shoving Son Gokū back into the spotlight. Honestly, I'm hurt Toriyama, you can make dramatic super fights but you can't fight your own fans.

The Cell saga started off good, but the fight with Cell was just so boring. I mean, they'd do massive damage to Cell, then he'd regenerate. Repeat ten times. The Saiyan and Freeza sagas were much better in comparison.

[AstroNerdBoy]

In Slayers Try (which started with promise and had a good concept), the shark was jumped...

...the moment Dragon Slave was cast and it didn't kill anyone, but sent a character into orbit. HA!HA!HA!HA! Oh that's so funny. Someone stop the madness!

[v1cious]

Black Cat
should have ended the after whole Apostles of the Star thing

Gate Keepers
started off pretty good, and then got really awful after episode 12

Blood+
the last arc was absolutely horrible

Dragon Ball Z
everything after the Cell Saga

hehe. and even though i don't watch Death Note (i read the manga), i have a feeling fans are going to be seeing the shark in the water soon.

[stephane dumas]

Sailor Moon:

Ok, this anime completely died when the fourth series, SuperS, began. The first three series were really interesting, and the third series, S, was the absolute best of the whole show - it had the best action, many new characters, a deeper and darker plot, etc. When the fourth season started, it was nothing but a farce of the original show, and it was clear that the writers for the anime were trying to make the show funnier or lighter or something. All this meant was that the enemies became a joke, they didn't bring back Uranus, Neptune, Pluto, or any of the other new characters that were introduced, and most of the MOTW were reused plots from the past three series.

The original Dream Arc of the manga, which SuperS was based on, was actually quite serious (and it was good). It's focal point was, instead of Usagi, ChibiUsa, and what her role would be in the future. Since ChibiUsa is a kid, I'm assuming that the SuperS creators took the opportunity to make the show silly. That was a dumb idea.

The horrible mess that was SuperS was corrected, slightly, in the opening episodes of Stars (series 5), where all of the senshi are brought together to defeat Nehellenia once and for all. However, the rest of Stars was just as crappy as SuperS, since they changed a lot of the plot and actually had those freaking Starlights BECOME MEN in their non-transformed states. Ew.

If you all want the short version of what I just said: The show became crappy once it deviated from the manga.

Good point about Sailor Moon, I could also a foreshadowing of things to come
at the end of SMS
Hotaru shrinked as a baby at the end of SMS, I know it did it in the manga but imagine what if Hotaru wasn't shrinked as a baby?

And in Goldorak/Grandizer, the jump the shark may be the following ones
when Actarus(Duke Fleed) and Venusia(Hikaru) got new wierd futuristic clothes on episode 37. And how they menaged to kill Vega at the end of episode 74, you can see the end was really rushed

[Rolling Cloud]

Gunslinger Girl jumped the shark when it aired way too much filler for background exposition. I understand wanting to pad out the characters but seriously:

Episodes 1-7: Character background
8-10: Elsa and Lauro arc
11-13: Angelica arc

They also focused way too much on Angelica rather than Henrietta.

[RAINMAN]

DBZ: Garlic jr sega. Say what you want about the buu or cell sega but atleast they were not base off a freaking movie that was out of connon. I love dead zone but to base a sega off it was a stupid idea. Just what were they thinking? Nor did it help that the sega was nowhere good as the movie.:sad:

[Karl Olson]

Gunslinger Girl jumped the shark when it aired way too much filler for background exposition. I understand wanting to pad out the characters but seriously:

Episodes 1-7: Character background
8-10: Elsa and Lauro arc
11-13: Angelica arc

They also focused way too much on Angelica rather than Henrietta.

Well, all that character exposition is in the manga. Beyond that, the more the manga goes on, the more it becomes clear that Henrietta existed as a character to get the reader introduced to the world, as it becomes more an more of an ensemble cast as the manga moves on, and even the anime hints at this. The flow in both versions is largely short arcs centered around all of the various girls and other characters. One arc in the manga that occurs after the events of the anime is largely told from a perspective entirely outside of the Social Welfare Organization, and when they do come into play, it actually makes you feel a little sorry for some of the terrorists and mobsters that the girls murder.

Considering Morio Asaka basically took a very unfinished manga (there's now over 4 times more content in the manga than was animated,) and managed to create a short series out of it, it works well as a set of short stories with a few emotional twists along the way and a solid moral payoff at the end. It's not really what Yu Aida is/was doing with it in the manga (it's almost like a set of short stories that have a common setting and a definitely continuity, their isn't a clear cut moral push and there is even less of a sense of a "main character".) If I were going to fault the anime on anything, it'd be nearly destroying it's momentum by starting with 2 episodes for Henrietta's story rather than 1. It would have been better to try tighten up certain scenes, or set the DVDs up with a director's cut that combine that the two episodes into one extra long episode. I know so many people who didn't like that initial direction, and then they missed out on the rest of the show which really did hit the right beats.

[Conan-san]

For Sailor Moon, I'd have to say that during the later seasons it had a rather odd habbit of Jumping the shark and then Un-jumping the shark.

For example, most of SuperS was a Shark Jump, and then the first seven episodes of Stars un jumped the situation only to re Shark Jump with the middle part of stars and then Un Jump with the finalé.

[TheAnimeBoy16]

Digimon (franchise in general)- Episode 50 of Adventure 02, its "25 Years Later" epilogue, and Frontier. I believe that Digimon jumped the shark in 2 sections. The first event was Episode 50 of Digimon 02 in general. First the whole "The power of digi-love" saves everything drama, and then, "25 Years Later" came along. Oh, the horror! the horror! First they destroy, mysteriously, a couple which was definitely a given (And its the most widely accepted coupling in the franchise *wink wink*). Then they changed Yamato/Matt's lifestyle completely, from being a rock star to an astronaut. (Seriously, WTF? >.>). Those things, among others, ticked off many fans. And starting with Tamers, no offense to anybody, the ratings took a down trend. That leads me to the thing that practically killed the franchise. Frontier. First, the whole "Kids turn into digimon" bit. I mean Tamers did a merge evolution, that I understand. But how can you change the idea of having partner digimon on its head and have the kids themselves turning into digimon (I mean seriously!). Then the ratings for Frontier were the franchise's worst ever! And it, in fact, caused the Fifth series, Digimon Savers, which premiered three years after Frontier, to change the demographics for the series altogether in Japan from children to Teenagers. So Frontier, which caused Savers to change the franchise's demographics altogether, along with Episode 50 of Digimon 02, caused Digimon to jump the shark. Frontier needed to be taken also into account for the changes made for series 5. Thank you!

[Lutochris]

After all, Diamond & Pearl is, overall, a bit more shojo-heavy than previous seasons.

Well that's a step in the right direction. But then why the hell do they bring back Brock for no other purpose than to balance the male/female ratio?


I disagree. Okay, the middle portion of the Houen Saga was kind of dull, but the end was strong, and Battle Frontier was amazing.

DP hasn't been quite as good, but it's still enjoyable. It just lacks Haruka, who was the biggest reason for AG being great.

Of course the ending of Hoenn was good since they focused on the Grand Festival and League competition. And BF was better since it was only 1 year and they had to squeeze 5 contest, 7 gyms, plus the grand festival into that time, thus leaving little time for filler. The problem is the 3 years it took to get to the end of Hoenn. They introduce May, she's great, she develops as a coordinator, etc, etc. But by the time she got to her 2nd contest, they were back to the same old patterns and it stayed that way till they had to finish off the Hoenn competitions. There's no reason for them to make so much filler (BF proves that), and even if there was, they could at least try to make it watchable. From what I've seen of DP, I have no reason to doubt that it will follow any pattern different than Hoenn did. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I've lost all faith in the writers.

[Duke]

There's no reason for them to make so much filler (BF proves that), and even if there was, they could at least try to make it watchable.
Hoenn's filler > Kanto Filler = some BF filler > other BF filler > Orange Islands Filler = 10% of Johto > 90% of Johto

There were only about 10-12 bad filler episodes in Hoenn, if that, and most occured before Ash got his 2nd Badge.

[Jacob T. Paschal]

Hoenn's filler > Kanto Filler = some BF filler > other BF filler > Orange Islands Filler = 10% of Johto > 90% of Johto

There were only about 10-12 bad filler episodes in Hoenn, if that, and most occured before Ash got his 2nd Badge.

One must wonder though, why is there filler in the first place? Just, you know, extend battles across several episodes. The Hoenn League would've been a lot better had those two last battles taken a few more episodes.

[Rolling Cloud]

Well, all that character exposition is in the manga. Beyond that, the more the manga goes on, the more it becomes clear that Henrietta existed as a character to get the reader introduced to the world, as it becomes more an more of an ensemble cast as the manga moves on, and even the shot hints at this. The flow is in both versions is largely short arcs centered around all of the various girls and other characters. One arc in the manga that occurs after the events of the anime is largely told from a perspective entirely outside of the Social Welfare Organization, and when they do come into play, it actually makes you feel a little sorry for some of the terrorists and mobsters that the girls murder.

Considering Morio Asaka basically took a very unfinished manga (there's now over 4 times more content in the manga than was animated,) and managed to create a short series out of it, it works well as a set of short stories with a few emotional twists along the way and a solid moral payoff at then. It's not really what Yu Aida is/was doing with it in the manga (it's almost like a set of short stories that have a common setting and a definitely continuity, their isn't a clear cut moral push and there is even less of a sense of a "main character".) If I were going to fault the anime on anything, it'd be nearly destroying it's momentum by starting with 2 episodes for Henrietta's story rather than 1. It would have been better to try tighten up certain scenes, or set the DVDs up with a director's cut that combine that the two episodes into one extra long episode. I know so many people who didn't like that initial direction, and then they missed out on the rest of the show which really did hit the right beats.

Can't argue with you there!! :anime:

[Duke]

One must wonder though, why is there filler in the first place? Just, you know, extend battles across several episodes. The Hoenn League would've been a lot better had those two last battles taken a few more episodes.
Well, the final episodes of the Hoenn League were rushed a bit since Movie 8 was premiering in less than a month (so they needed to get Ash out to the Battle Frontier).

As for the existence of fillers, it's main purpose to help pace the series. This series would be majorly boring if every episode was either a Gym Battle or a Contest. Of course, the pacing gets shuffled around thanks to the various video games. But as evidenced with the Battle Frontier saga, that would happen even if the series didn't have fillers.

And not every Gym Battle deserves 2-3 episodes of battle. It's nice when it does, but stretching out a 3 vs. 3 battle over 2 episodes would be beyond overkill.

Fillers don't automatically mean the episode is horrible. "Having a Wailord of a Time," "A Poké-Block Party," "Candid Camerupt," "A Double Dilemma," "The Bicker the Better," "Claydol Big and Tall," and "Once in a Mawile" were easily better than 3/4 of the Gym Battles in Kanto, the Orange League, and Johto (which isn't really hard to do since only half the Gym Battles in each saga were any good).

[Jacob T. Paschal]

Well, the final episodes of the Hoenn League were rushed a bit since Movie 8 was premiering in less than a month (so they needed to get Ash out to the Battle Frontier).

As for the existence of fillers, it's main purpose to help pace the series. This series would be majorly boring if every episode was either a Gym Battle or a Contest. Of course, the pacing gets shuffled around thanks to the various video games. But as evidenced with the Battle Frontier saga, that would happen even if the series didn't have fillers.

And not every Gym Battle deserves 2-3 episodes of battle. It's nice when it does, but stretching out a 3 vs. 3 battle over 2 episodes would be beyond overkill.

Fillers don't automatically mean the episode is horrible. "Having a Wailord of a Time," "A Poké-Block Party," "Candid Camerupt," "A Double Dilemma," "The Bicker the Better," "Claydol Big and Tall," and "Once in a Mawile" were easily better than 3/4 of the Gym Battles in Kanto, the Orange League, and Johto (which isn't really hard to do since only half the Gym Battles in each saga were any good).

I must the man only man in the world that didn't say "WHY IS NAMEK SO LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNGGGGGGG???????!!!!!"

While not all battles have to be longer the writers could at least incorporate interesting story arcs into the series, specifically, what they failed to do with the Teams. The fact that JJ&M have probably wasted hundreds of millions of Giovanni's cash must have told him something about that blasted Pikachu they've been after for what, six years? Why doesn't he knocked them off assignment and send in a few blood thirsty...ninja? Heck, why not show off a darker side of the Pokémon world and have a gym leader betray the league and revealing to be a TR agent all culminating into a great world wide panic or something...but that'll never happen because that'll mean the writers would have to actually work, unless they could develop the story into a three film trilogy or something, but that just goes against their beloved formula.

[Duke]

Well, they had a bunch of serious storylines early on (mostly dealing with Mewtwo), but it was decided to relegate something like that to the movies only and focus on the comedy instead.

[Lutochris]

Hoenn's filler > Kanto Filler = some BF filler > other BF filler > Orange Islands Filler = 10% of Johto > 90% of Johto

There were only about 10-12 bad filler episodes in Hoenn, if that, and most occured before Ash got his 2nd Badge.

Kanto and Orange filler are at the top, Hoenn and Johto filler are at the bottom, with Hoenn slightly better. BF was somewhere in the middle. I'll at least listen to most arguments otherwise, but no way you will EVER convince me that Hoenn filler > Kanto. Find me one Hoenn episode that's funnier than Pokemon Fashion Flash, Pokemon Shipwreck, School of Hard Knocks, or Ghost of Maiden's Peak. Or Holy Matrimony, or Tower of Terror, or Princess vs. Princess, the list just goes on and on. There's maybe 1 or 2 Kanto eps that I didn't truly enjoy.

[Rolling Cloud]

The only filler I liked was:

Pokemon Fashion Flash
Pokemon Shipwreck
School of Hard Knocks
Ghost of Maiden's Peak
Holy Matrimony
Tower of Terror
Princess vs. Princess
Off the Unbeaten Path

[Duke]

Pokemon Fashion Flash,
That's not a filler. If it is, then so is "Ash Catches a Pokémon."

Pokemon Shipwreck, School of Hard Knocks, or Ghost of Maiden's Peak.
Pokémon Shipwreck was good, but it was still a bit hampered by some logistic gaps (Onix being a staircase, Bulbasaur's vines) as well as the writers obviously not knowing how to handle a powerful Pokémon like Gyarados. I liked the premise of "School of Hard Knocks," but after Ash loses his battle the episode just kind of sits there until A.J. fights Team Rocket. "Ghost of Maiden's Peak" was good, though I would've liked more explanation for Gastly.


Or Holy Matrimony, or Tower of Terror, or Princess vs. Princess
"Holy Matrimony" isn't what I would call a filler, but it is hampered by James not taking Growlithe with him. I wasn't a big fan of "Tower of Terror" back when it was syndication, and rewatching the Kanto boxset re-affirmed that. It just doesn't have any real impact. "Princess vs. Princess" was good too.

the list just goes on and on. There's maybe 1 or 2 Kanto eps that I didn't truly enjoy.
Meh, after the Moon Stone episode I didn't truly enjoy a filler episode until "Sparks Fly for Magnemite" and "The Flame Pokémon-athon." After that the fillers kind of went off and on, usually a couple good episodes ("Battling Eevee Brothers," "Bridge Bike Gang") then a real stinker or two ("Showdown in Dark City," "Problem with Paras"). When the show got into Ash training for the Indigo League, the episodes went down real fast (except for the two movie-based episodes used to promote MSB) until it got to the Indigo League itself, which had some decent parts but was overall pretty crappy. As for Hoenn fillers which were better, I already listed the best ones in my post above.

Overall, I'd say Kanto has about 70% of episodes which were decent at best (including fillers and non-fillers) with about 30% which were awesome. Hoenn I'd say had about 40-50% which were decent at best and 50-55% which were awesome.

[Lighthammer]

INUYASHA
Thus far in all the anime I've seen, I don't think I can say I've seen a series that jumped the shark quiet as bad. It's a series that started out with so much potential and was so watchable. I was totally hooked on it. I can't quiet place when it happened from my vantage point but the series just could NEVER finish any plot device it opened. The series resigned to have no finality or closure to anything. After about the fifth time this happened, I just walked away from the series and never followed it since.

SAILOR MOON
I gotta agree with some of the above posts on this series. For a "girly" series, it was really enjoyable in terms of plot. The 'filler' type episodes that connected the main plot together with the final plot device is what ruined the series. I think if you literally take 1st, 3rd, 4th and 5th season --- TOTALLY eliminate the 2nd and 6th from existence and get rid of all the episodes where nothing really important happened, the series would be over all REALLY GOOD.

FULL METAL ALCHEMIST
I know this is gonna be a very unpopular one to call out but I just feel I gotta. After about episode 20 the series just felt like it went down hill. The specific episode I am calling out is when Al started to think that Ed created false memories for him. Thats exactly the point when I just lost interest in the series. I've watched sparse episodes here and there after that, but it just never managed to recapture my interest after that point.

DRAGON BALL Z
I gotta agree with the crowd. This is a series that was INTENDED to end after Frezia and kept going due to fan outcry. I sometimes wonder if the Buu saga was designed to make everyone say "Ok --- ENOUGH! Stop it! You're hurting my eyes!" I enjoyed the first part of the Buu saga right up until the point Vegeta sacrificed himself. Then, after that, it went down hill without redemption. DBGT was more of the same.

GHOST IN THE SHELL: STAND ALONE COMPLEX
I gotta give it up for this series. This is a series that IMHO, started out as a "jump the shark" in the first season but TOTALLY unjumped itself in the second season. It's kind of a contraction in the term, but it managed to bring home the gold.

BLUE GENDER
Awesome series UNTIL THE LAST EPISODE. It jumped so bad, I try to pretend I never saw it --- but --- but --- ITS SO BAD IT HAUNTS MY NIGHTMARES! <twitch>

[Patches]

Here's a really easy one:

Fushigi Yuugi: After the failed summoning of Suzaku. Then it turned out that they really didn't have to gather all the Seishi, that just getting some treasures would do, and this gave them leeway to kill almost everyone off during the remaining episodes. And everyone who was still alive was on a quest to rape Miaka. The series then jumped, stomped on, chopped up, and ate the shark with the Eikoden OAV.

[Lutochris]

That's not a filler. If it is, then so is "Ash Catches a Pokémon."

Pokémon Shipwreck was good, but it was still a bit hampered by some logistic gaps (Onix being a staircase, Bulbasaur's vines) as well as the writers obviously not knowing how to handle a powerful Pokémon like Gyarados. I liked the premise of "School of Hard Knocks," but after Ash loses his battle the episode just kind of sits there until A.J. fights Team Rocket. "Ghost of Maiden's Peak" was good, though I would've liked more explanation for Gastly.


"Holy Matrimony" isn't what I would call a filler, but it is hampered by James not taking Growlithe with him. I wasn't a big fan of "Tower of Terror" back when it was syndication, and rewatching the Kanto boxset re-affirmed that. It just doesn't have any real impact. "Princess vs. Princess" was good too.

Meh, after the Moon Stone episode I didn't truly enjoy a filler episode until "Sparks Fly for Magnemite" and "The Flame Pokémon-athon." After that the fillers kind of went off and on, usually a couple good episodes ("Battling Eevee Brothers," "Bridge Bike Gang") then a real stinker or two ("Showdown in Dark City," "Problem with Paras"). When the show got into Ash training for the Indigo League, the episodes went down real fast (except for the two movie-based episodes used to promote MSB) until it got to the Indigo League itself, which had some decent parts but was overall pretty crappy. As for Hoenn fillers which were better, I already listed the best ones in my post above.

Overall, I'd say Kanto has about 70% of episodes which were decent at best (including fillers and non-fillers) with about 30% which were awesome. Hoenn I'd say had about 40-50% which were decent at best and 50-55% which were awesome.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. There's really no tangible reason I like the older ones better, and I'm not one of those people who constantly complains about a given show "not being as good as the old days" (see my constant defending of The Simpsons on the General forum). The Kanto fillers just had a more fun, loose feel to them. Ash & Misty were still fighting, Brock's love-sick shtick hadn't gotten old yet, nor had TR's antics. And there just seemed to be more fun overall character interaction, whereas the newer episodes they never seem to say anything to each other except "Wow that new Pokemon of yours is really great" or something like that.

As for Pokemon Fashion Flash, I was considering any non-Conest, Gym, or League episodes to be filler (except the episodes dealing with the Team Aqua & Magma conflict, since that's an extended story arc). And for School of Hard Knocks, I think you were thinking of Path to the Pokemon League. That's the one with AJ. I was talking about the one with the prep school and the girl Giselle with the Marowak.