New Background for WF's The DC Animation Forum!

[James Harvey]

Hello everyone,

To mark the arrival of Justice League Unlimited: Season Two and Batman Beyond: Season Three onto DVD, the staff here thought a little makeover would help mark the occasion! As you may have already noticed, this board now has a fashionable new background. This background is a little different, however. Every image chosen was picked by the mods here (basically a "staff picks" background). Each screenshot is either from a moderator's favorite episode or is a favorite image from one of the DC animated series.

So, in an effort to provide a little back story to the new background gracing these forums, each moderator who chose an image will let us know why. Now, there may not be any amazing explanations, but this could lead to some interesting conversations. So, I'll begin.


http://worldsfinestonline.com/WF/batman/btas/episodes/heartofice/01.jpg

Batman: The Animated Series “Heart of Ice” - My favorite image from the entire episode, thankfully screengrabbed on the The World's Finest (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com) website. This is, without question, the best episode of the original Batman animated series and my absolute favorite. When I think of Batman The Animated Series, this is the episode I think of. Winner of the Batman: The Animated Series 10th Anniversary Poll (http://worldsfinestonline.com/WF/heartofice/), this episode just remains so strong and so powerful to me. Is it perfect? No. But to me, this was my introduction to the animated Batman, and I was lucky to have it be this episode. I can still remember rushing into the house to watch it and just being mesmerized. Paul Dini and Bruce Timm pulled out all the stops with this episode, giving us such an amazing villain, a tragic back story, some great action, and heart-wrenching ending.

To me, nothing compares to this episode.

Now what do the other mods have to say about their screengrabs? Any thoughts or comments on the new forum background?

[James]

My task was to find a Superman: The Animated Series image that would work in the mesh. There were three images I um'd and ah'd over - and the final choice looked unsatisfactory in the mesh, so I went for my second choice:


http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/superman/reviews/unity/25.jpg

Why? Because it's from Unity. Those who take pleasure in stalking James Harvey like myself, know of his disdain for this episode. It therefore took me great pleasure when he offered the noose to hang himself and his forum with.*

*on top of that, when I was manipulating the images into the mesh, this image worked very well against the opposing image of the Teen Titans. It mirrored the viewpoint and countered the dramatic intent of the screen grab. The contrasts worked far better with the two images than the original Titan and Superman: The Animated Series images. So that put this image in favour. Plus, I love the epic nature of team ups in action - and ribbing our esteemed site owner. That's even more fun than the epic action of a good ol' superhero team up.

[SuperBat]

Love the new background! More dramatic than the last, and I love that shot of the original seven.

[Bird Boy]

Like most of the DCAU MODs, we were all given a series to pick an image from. Mine was Batman Beyond and I don't know if Stu picked that one for me because of the first two letters to be a smart ass or just because I love the show. Either way, my thoughts went straight to...


http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/beyond/episodes/eyewitness/14.jpg

"Eyewitness." To this day it remains one of my favorite Batman Beyond stories. That image stuck in my head after I took DVD screengrabs from it and knew it was one of my top choices for the background. Luckily it worked, as the other shots, while cool, just weren't as awesome as that shot.

-BB

[James]

It's a pity that we lost so much of the fire and drama from the grab, but then the intent was to make sure your epic shot was cut down so it wasn't as special as you hoped. I made that my main focus for the mesh - aside from making sure Unity was in there somewhere.

[Cortez2301]

I think this background is way cooler than the previous one.Are you ever going to do one which would somehow include all the DCAU charcters?

[A.J]

I love changes, the new design is nice. However, I think it could had been better somehow. There are none JLU images, althou there are from the original big 7 from JL. El Señor Frio looks awesome but I dont feel it quite well next to TT Starfire and Robin images. BBs image rocks without a doubt and so that image from unity. I just think theres no room for characters from both JL and JLU to shine such as Question, Green Arrow, etc. An image from the new Robin on TB and the new Batman design as well would be nice. you know what? a Legion of Doom vs the JLU would had been nice due to the last release of the JLU set. Just my opinion, of course, the design, as I said before, looks very nice anyway. I just think it doesnt capture the whole DCAU that well or whatever. I already have problems expressing myself in english! Thanks guys.

[ShadowStar]

The new look is outstanding. I love the wonderful, iconic selections for each show, though I think it would have been nice to include images from plain old Justice League (instead of just Unlimited) and TNBA. I must especially commend the "Heart of Ice" choice; that whole scene, that whole episode, is the epitome of what made B:TAS (and ultimately, the DCAU) the testament to animation that it is (though "Perchance to Dream" is better:p).

[James Harvey]

Actually, the new background was never supposed to capture to entire DCAU (which is why Teen Titans and The Batman are included). This background was basically a "staff picks" background, where the moderators at this forum could pick their favorite image or episode and have it in the background. There was no intent to do an all-encompassing "DCAU background." We just wanted to get our favorite images up to coincide with the March 20th releases of Batman Beyond: Season Three and Justice League Unlimited: Season Three. Maybe you'll get your wish of an all-encompassing "DCAU" image with the next background, but we're proud of what we cooked up so we moderators could mark March 20th in a special way! It was something different, and I think we succeeded.

And for those who don't like it, the background is not permanent. I'm sure a new one will be up before the end of the year, if not sooner, to possibly tie into Superman Versus Doomsday. Please keep the feedback coming!

[James]

Furthermore, you only have 200 odd pixel square to play with. JLU is always a difficult one because you simply don't have the resolution for that sort of grouping. Like the last one, you are best to grab a couple of the major characters and that is it. Given the major characters from JLU are the JL, and that JLU really is just a refocused three season part of JL, I don't think we've done JLU any disloyalty even if we ignore the fact it wasn't part of the remit.

In the end, it was a balance of space, and the images the mods had picked. Some images were slightly cut, the biggest and most shameful cut was "The Batman" which originally had The Joker in it as well. I would liked to have kept the Joker there, just to give the Batman image more relevance, but it simply was getting too cluttered, and I have better things to do that spend hours trying to pull a mesh together. So The Batman image was chopped, but I gave it a central placement to make up for the large edit.

But when you have a set amount of images already chosen, and only a couple of backups, and only a certain amount of time and of course, only a certain amount of "how much do I really care?" :p - you just do the best you can. Overall I'm very happy with the mesh. I never expected the JL rosta to manage to hold it's own as it does. I thought it was too much detail. I was wrong - one of the strongest elements for me.

[Karkull]

Well, I guess I'm up next. As you can probably guess, I had a bit of a time finding an iconic image to represent two series: Justice League and Justice League Unlimited. In my eyes, I couldn't just take a shot of one or two of the characters (dissing the other guys) but, at the same time, I couldn't very well use a pic like at the end of "Dark Heart," with fifty little heroes that would get killed while getting resized. So, after much consideration, I went with the "Beatles reunion" shot from "Panic in the Sky":


http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/jlu/episodes/panicinthesky/54.jpg

To me, this combines what was great about Justice League (the core seven members) while, at the same time, acknowledges the changes that occurred from "Secret Origins" to Cadmus. Besides, even with the fifty-some-odd characters that joined the League in Unlimited, they ain't nothin' without the classic lineup at the helm.

[A.J]

Actually, the new background was never supposed to capture to entire DCAU (which is why Teen Titans and The Batman are included). This background was basically a "staff picks" background, where the moderators at this forum could pick their favorite image or episode and have it in the background. There was no intent to do an all-encompassing "DCAU background." We just wanted to get our favorite images up to coincide with the March 20th releases of Batman Beyond: Season Three and Justice League Unlimited: Season Three. Maybe you'll get your wish of an all-encompassing "DCAU" image with the next background, but we're proud of what we cooked up so we moderators could mark March 20th in a special way! It was something different, and I think we succeeded.

And for those who don't like it, the background is not permanent. I'm sure a new one will be up before the end of the year, if not sooner, to possibly tie into Superman Versus Doomsday. Please keep the feedback coming!

Your reasons are totally valid JH. I support your work 100% and youre right: its sort of your favorite iconic images. Keep up the good work you do guys, this is SO my favorite forum and site (Toonzone) on the net, specially when youre willing to receive feedback as mine.

[Caswin]

You win at background.

[James]

Well if I am going to fail at making lots of money, I may as well win at making backgrounds for fansites...

It's not perfect, and I wouldn't want to imply that my replies are to stress my choices were "right" and any criticism was "wrong". Personally, given we did it within a week or so from idea to final product, I'm happy with the staff choices and the end result. It's a slightly evolved design from the last ones and so I'm pleased with it for that reason. Had I had more time I would have done things differently with the choices maybe, but overall I'm pleased with the team effort to get this working.

The first version wasn't quite as good, and I can hold up my hand and say my first choice was partially to blame which was this:


http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/superman/reviews/legacypt2/22.jpg

Problem was, the contrasts were just too down high and it stuck out with the Teen Titans choice we initially used. A far more fitting bit of STAS drama, but unfortunately, just didn't flow with the less brightly composed images!

[adoptedBatpuppy]

Nice, I like the blueish/grayish undertones that went into making the background of this forum! Good job Everyone! :)

James I can totally see why you picked Superman and Lois design, as your favorite moment in STAS.

[Temple Fugate]

The way some of the images bleed into others is pretty cool and gives it a dynamic past bg's didn't have. Great pics everyone.

[James]

James I can totally see why you picked Superman and Lois design, as your favorite moment in STAS.

Well, I'm not a fan of Lois and Superman per se, I think she's a horrible woman - until she was heftily rewritten in the comics to be love material for Clark. But I do think it's a defining character moment of STAS and a fantastic bit of emotional drama to end the show on.

And while I enjoy watching Jim find no enjoyment in anything Unity, I think this was a more STAS defining and interesting image - just didn't fit in the mesh very well!

[Kury Wagner]

Whoa, that was quick. Nice job, guys. I rarely step foot in here, nowadays, but it looks nifty. =]

[Mr. Manager]

I really like it. It didn't even take me long to get used to. I already think it's better than the previous one.

[StormBlue]

The background looks SUPER SWEET!!!

[Peter Paltridge]

So who picked the Teen Titans one? Haven't heard from that dude yet....

[Oh look I'm...]

The way some of the images bleed into others is pretty cool and gives it a dynamic past bg's didn't have. Great pics everyone.I disagree, and I'm sorry to say that this is not my favorite bg you guy's have made. The biggest problem I have is how the Justice League image repeats in a line without a different pic in between: it's Justice League, then Justice League, then Justice League, from left to right.
(Screaming at the sky) Where's the diversity?!!?!

Of course, there's probably no point to me telling you that anyway, because it's not like you can fix it quickly. I bet it's a huge production. Next time, you might want to look into having something of a poll or where the users pick the background from a list of image-choices.;)

...Yeah, like that will ever happen.:p Long live the TYRANNY!

Okay, well, considering as I'm about to die now (Bird Boy's giving me that evil I'm-going-to-shut-you-up-like-the-official-Raven-fan-club-thread look), I'll say my last words with this: the Rob/Star pic was nice, but I was actually hoping that you guys might go with this one.


http://teentitans.toonzone.net/tt/reviews/tokyo/123.jpg

Again, it's pretty stupid of me to get my hopes up, and it's not like you'll fix it or change it just because a lowly member of the Toon Zone serfs brought it up.:sweat: :shrug: :shrug:

[James]

I disagree, and I'm sorry to say that this is not my favorite bg you guy's have made. The biggest problem I have is how the Justice League image repeats in a line without a different pic in between: it's Justice League, then Justice League, then Justice League, from left to right.
(Screaming at the sky) Where's the diversity?!!?!

Well, technically, the diversity is above and below it. One could make an argument that picture represents the JLU in it's infinite (but strangely repeatative in our case) diversions.

Quite honestly, I totally agree with you. If I had one single grumble it is that line: when the background loads up, it jumps out at me and screams "too much horizontal buzz!!" because, as you say, there is nothing to break it up.


Of course, there's probably no point to me telling you that anyway, because it's not like you can fix it quickly. I bet it's a huge production. Next time, you might want to look into having something of a poll or where the users pick the background from a list of image-choices.;)

Oh, right as if that would make it any better. *rolleyes* (YES! I said rolleyes! I am now my worst enemy.) Users here are an infinitely picky bunch and my experience of the average users design skills can be equated by the terrible success that is MySpace. I see no reason to presume users would pick any better - or worse - pictures than the staff. Giving it to the members would a) be a long and image flooded process, b) IMO no better choices than what we see here (the staff are fans too you know), and c) STILL have detractors. We ALWAYS have detractors.


...Yeah, like that will ever happen.:p Long live the TYRANNY!


Given the staff bust their asses at World's Finest to give you new interviews, news scoops, a fairly moderated forum etc, I hardly think we are being particularly egotistical by choosing the background to the forum we run - especially given the choice was offered to the staff by the owner of the website. This was his call, probably because he respects the staff - which is crazy, but nice.

I know you are being a little glib and having some fun - though I do feel some genuine resentment that this was chosen by the staff, but I felt the need to vent and you just sooo opened yourself up as a target.


Okay, well, considering as I'm about to die now (Bird Boy's giving me that evil I'm-going-to-shut-you-up-like-the-official-Raven-fan-club-thread look), I'll say my last words with this: the Rob/Star pic was nice, but I was actually hoping that you guys might go with this one.


I'd quit before that repellent image went up - which might have worked in your favour. ;) Seriously. Ick. Nightwing chose the Teen Titan one. This was his second choice and I like it.

Bottomline on this background: We made a brief that Jim headed: that each member chose a picture. My job was to fit the chosen images into a mesh. Karkull's picture was the JL one and the hardest given it's the most complex and detailed. Given that it NEEDED size to be utilized effectively, there was no choice but to give it the maximum width. I only used alternative images when staff had offered them and we were sure that the mesh wasn't working at all. So I did the best given the brief we had and the pictures we had collected. I personally thought the whole JL was too big, but then, it is a nice array of the characters and to represent the JL/U we needed a fairly large shot. That was what Karkull chose and I hope that the result - while not perfect - was at least a reasonable and rational use of the images chosen individually.


Again, it's pretty stupid of me to get my hopes up, and it's not like you'll fix it or change it just because a lowly member of the Toon Zone serfs brought it up.:sweat: :shrug: :shrug:

Well we're not changing it because you don't like it. Not because you are a "serf" but because that a) defeats the exercise, b) is MORE work for me and c) it's not a belief that the majority hold. I wouldn't change it if any of the none WF staff here at Toon Zone didn't like it so rest assured, it's not personal or "classist" as to the reason your request is DENIED! :)

As Jim has already stated, we'll probably change it later in the year to coincide with another event.

Seriously, jabs, grumbles and gags aside, we do appreciate the feedback - however you feel about it.

[Stu]

J'ohnn's cape isn't pink this time, hurray for Jimmy Boy! :p

Backgrounds are hard work, most of which I would assume is tedious. Did a bang up job here, some great pics, expertly placed together. I actually really love the shot of the big 7.

One of our original ideas before the staff pics was images from each show's premiere episode - I personally think the staff picks looks a hell of a lot better. Kudos, all.

[Oh look I'm...]

That was what Karkull chose and I hope that the result - while not perfect - was at least a reasonable and rational use of the images chosen individually.That's really all I was getting at. IMO, there've been better bg's here.:sweat: :o All things considered, you did a good job, despite what you had to work with.;)
Well, technically, the diversity is above and below it.Uh, yeah, I got that.:p I meant there was nothing to break it up from LEFT to RIGHT. I think you got my point eventually.;)
Oh, right, as if that would make it any better. *rolleyes* (YES! I said rolleyes! I am now my worst enemy.) Users here are an infinitely picky bunch and my experience of the average users design skills can be equated by the terrible success that is MySpace. I see no reason to presume users would pick any better - or worse - pictures than the staff. Giving it to the members would a) be a long and image flooded process, b) IMO no better choices than what we see here (the staff are fans too you know), and c) STILL have detractors. We ALWAYS have detractors.
Given the staff bust their asses at World's Finest to give you new interviews, news scoops, a fairly moderated forum etc, I hardly think we are being particularly egotistical by choosing the background to the forum we run
Are you guys coerced to bring us all that stuff? Or do you do it because you love it?:p

Yes, I see your point, and it's quite valid.;) :) The point I was going for (by ineffectively using satire) was that the moderators on this forum appear considerably disconnected from the lowly users, and the bg was just a prime example of it. The community is almost split, I'd say: you have mods in their own little community, goofing off with each other unscolded (or maybe they are, how would I know?), while users are off under a very tight leash in some forums. Now, I'm not going to dispute the rules, as I know they're there for a reason; my suggestion to implement a "poll" was just a way for the users who enjoy this forum to be a part of the process that makes it. Basically (warm and fuzzy moment ahead, people), it was a way to bring makers, mods, and users closer together.;) Though I'm not sure on the specifics of Toon Zone's "Mission Statement," I do think that is exactly what the Toon Zone community is all about.

Of course, I could be way off base in my assessments, as I usually am, but I just had some thoughts, and if that is a crime in and of itself, then lock me away.:sweat: :p

[James]

That's really all I was getting at. IMO, there've been better bg's here.:sweat: :o All things considered, you did a good job, despite what you had to work with.;) Uh, yeah, I got that.:p I meant there was nothing to break it up from LEFT to RIGHT. I think you got my point eventually.;)
Are you guys coerced to bring us all that stuff? Or do you do it because you love it?:p

As I said, I think your point is entirely valid. I agree. Though given the deck we put on the table and the short time period (we had a DVD deadline to make) AND I'm a busy man, it was the best mesh going. With hindsight, I've found the weakness you've pointed out (a couple of days ago, actually), but I don't think the weakness validates a change away from what we set out to do and would be unfair to the people who picked the pictures.


Yes, I see your point, and it's quite valid.;) :) The point I was going for (by ineffectively using satire) was that the moderators on this forum appear considerably disconnected from the lowly users, and the bg was just a prime example of it.
Wow, quite a survey you haven't done there. Go on. ;)


The community is almost split, I'd say: you have mods in their own little community, goofing off with each other unscolded (or maybe they are, how would I know?), while users are off under a very tight leash in some forums.
Staff, who spend a lot of time working - for no money - to make this place interesting, friendly and cool aren't allowed to goof off with no malice whatsoever? Given we work together, it's fairly safe to say what staff say to each other is in jest with no disrespect intended. Give us an example where we have clearly been attacking another staff member and we'll look into it, otherwise your comparison is weak at best.


Now, I'm not going to dispute the rules, as I know they're there for a reason; my suggestion to implement a "poll" was just a way for the users who enjoy this forum to be a part of the process that makes it. Basically (warm and fuzzy moment ahead, people), it was a way to bring makers, mods, and users closer together.;) Though I'm not sure on the specifics of Toon Zone's "Mission Statement," I do think that is exactly what the Toon Zone community is all about.Well again, our mission statement is community, but given the time, effort and manpower that has to be dedicated to such a background (I have done similar "polls" for the Drawing Board), it's a lot to ask and a far cry from having 5 people pick a picture for the forum they represent and then to make a mesh from it.

It's hardly like we blow trumpets here, or show signs of lavishing in some form of luxury here. We do our jobs, we do them - I think - well. I lay credit to Bird Boy, Jim, Stu et al because I know what a stressful place this can be to moderate as a forum and run as a website, it's not because we pat each others backs, it just seemed nice - for once - that we actually had an excuse to get together as a staff team and actually do something we could enjoy rather than pulling our hair out at some of the pettiness we deal with here on the board.

Sorry to sound a little prickly, but it seems a little unfair as to actually envision a sought of haughty staff who does nothing but sit in the lap of luxury with no interest in the community. If we didn't care, we wouldn't change the background because, quite frankly, throwing a few pictures together for our own pleasure isn't as rewarding as it may sound. :)




Of course, I could be way off base in my assessments, as I usually am, but I just had some thoughts, and if that is a crime in and of itself, then lock me away.:sweat: :p

I think some of your assumptions are a little unfair. I can sympathise with your issues with the background, but this issue seems to stem with some sort of preconceptions about the staff, and I'm not seeing those ideas as being validated anyway. I certainly don't really like this "well, I'll dare to say my piece but I'm half expected to be banned/edited/subjugated for it" feel. We are happy with your opinion, and we treat all as equally as our job allows: you've been candid, I'll be candid. To think we'd even been so small minded to actually bother censoring opinion as you imply, doesn't exactly make me think you rate us as staff that much - you either give us too little credit.. or place a little too much on your own opinion. Seriously, we don't CARE enough to be corrupt. Care enough to make silly backgrounds: yes; to silence contrary opinion: no.

EDIT: However, I must say we will "silence" certain banned members who we later discover have returned to WF against our terms of service with intentions of picking a fight/finding an excuse to air their grievances with the staff. We will not tolerate threads being derailed for hidden agendas. We want honest opinion, not passive attacks on World's Finest's administration.