The World's Finest Interviews "JLU" Story Editor Matt Wayne

[Bird Boy]

http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/includes/wayne01.jpg (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/jlu/backstage/interviews/wayne01.php)
Click the image to read the interview!

The World's Finest has an all-new interview up with JLU story editor Matt Wayne! It was conducted by the mighty Stu, who is unfortunately in Australia. I'm sure he wish he could be here instead of one of the many pubs he'll no doubt have been in already.

Major thanks to Matt Wayne for letting us interview him--hope you all enjoy it!

-Zach "Bird Boy"

[Bud 'n Lou]

Nice interview, I like getting behind the scenes info like that. Although something I've noticed a lot is that some creators come across as slightly bitter and surly in interviews. I can't pin it down, but it comes through somehow. And I don't know about you, but I'm old fashioned and like a little sunshine blown up my ass! Overall, a good, informative interview. Good work!

[Crow]

I was sort of hoping we'd hear from Matt Wayne and his time on JLU in some way (whether you guys were the ones holding the microphone or not), fantastic interview and I like how he seems to be unrestrained with a few things.

The word 'unfortunate' is a bit harsh also BB, be gentle....

[SuperBat]

I really enjoyed all the info on "Alive!" It never occurred to me at all that Tala may have been responsible for Darkseid's return. Kinda funny to hear the new look was just a Kiss-inspired in-joke.

I must say, though, that the "lord and master" line went right over my head, and now I find it pretty awesome.

[Cortez2301]

I must say, though, that the "lord and master" line went right over my head, and now I find it pretty awesome.I always thought it was cool but now that I read the interview it sounds even cooler.This time the line was used to sort of "end" his appearance in the DCAU (via "destroyer").

[Alex Weitzman]

Hee hee, listen to Matt deliver those smackdowns to uppity fanboys. It fits what he looks like. He's an older man, with long grey hair down to his upper back but a completely bald pate. His beard's about half as long as his hair, but it's pretty dirty and matted. He tends to hear hard rock T-shirts, torn jeans, and he actually carries a holster everywhere he goes. I didn't notice if that was actually a gun in it when I met him, but it could have been. The really curious thing about him is the cleats, which he's always wearing and likes stomping around in.

(I'm so totally lying. :p)

[Sue]

Nice job. In some ways, he reminds me of Darwyn Cooke in interviews -- real straightforward with strong opinions towards comics today. It makes for fun reading. He didn't seem that surly to me, and I can understand his point of view. These folks worked their asses off and put a lot into this show, so having fans trash it must sting.

[ShadowStar]

Great interview! I enjoyed reading about the thoughts that went into the season, particularly the insight for "Alive!" and "Ancient History", though it's a shame that Matt only briefly mentioned his real saving grace: "Flash and Substance" (he only did the teleplay for "The Great Brain Robbery", so that doesn't count). I'm also disappointed that Darkseid wasn't an amalgam of himself and Brainy after all... but you know what's spooky? The thought of Tala being responsible for Darkseids' resurrection actually crossed my mind about an hour before I read the interview!

[S.C.B]

I liked the idea that Tala brought Darkseid back as revenge against Lex. Puts an interesting twist on things.

And am I the only one who wants to see what a Bruce Timm glare looks like?

[DisneyBoy]

Was the idea of having Darkseid return as an amalgam of himself and Brainiac something that was decided as soon as the season was given the go-ahead?

He's not an amalgam of himself and Brainiac! That's his Kiss costume! Dwayne named the last episodes as a shout-out to Bruce, who likes Kiss, and Bruce followed with a Kiss-inspired redesign. I was surprised to learn that people thought it suggested something else.

I would have really preferred a more straight-forward answer to a question that has none. I mean, he sounds sarcastic...but if Darkseid was meant to be merged with Brainiac, why wasn't that touched on in the episode in a more deliberate way?

I liked the idea that Tala brought Darkseid back as revenge against Lex. Puts an interesting twist on things.

I like that idea too. Unfortunate that they didn't make use of it, with a quick shot of Tala glaring before blowing up...

And am I the only one who wants to see what a Bruce Timm glare looks like?

Yes.

These folks worked their asses off and put a lot into this show, so having fans trash it must sting.

Agreed. I mean, I certainly had nothing to say about Stargirl, but I wouldn't want my other opinions dismissed as "trash".

I always thought it was cool but now that I read the interview it sounds even cooler. This time the line was used to sort of "end" his appearance in the DCAU (via "destroyer").

Definitely.

The attempt at Kirby dialogue for Darkseid in "Alive!" It came off as stilted for no reason. I remember Bruce in the recording session wincing and cutting some of the needless exposition.

Sometime you have to sacrifice paying tribute for characters to sound like themselves. Darkseid was very unbearable in "Destroyer", and Superman's "I'm letting loose" speech wasn't much different. So what was Matt saying about how terrible it is to sound fanboyish?

[SuperBat]

I would have really preferred a more straight-forward answer to a question that has none. I mean, he sounds sarcastic...but if Darkseid was meant to be merged with Brainiac, why wasn't that touched on in the episode in a more deliberate way?
He did give an answer. No, the new look was not a Darkseid-Brainiac combo. Why do you think he was kidding? :confused:


Sometimes you have to sacrifice paying tribute for characters to sound like themselves. Darkseid was very unbearable in "Destroyer", and Superman's "I'm letting loose" speech wasn't much different. So what was Matt saying about how terrible it is to sound fanboyish?
How was Darkseid unbearable in "Destroyer?" It's one of my favorite Darkseid appearances, and I've seen nothing around here that suggests people hated his dialogue.

"The skies will rain fire. The ocean will boil. The streets will run red with the blood of billions. Only then after your last pitiful hope is extinguished will I end your life. Let's go!
I'd say quite the opposite about his dialogue, in fact.

"That man [Batman] won't quit as long as he can still draw breath. None of my teammates will. Me? I've got a different problem. I feel like I live in a world of cardboard, always taking constant care not to break something--to break some one. Never allowing myself to lose control, even for a moment, or someone could die. But you can take it, can't you big man? What we have here is a rare opportunity for me to cut loose and show you just how powerful I really am."
Never mind Superman's. ;)

[JEWCY]

very interesting interview making it a good read.

thanks wf and M.W.

[DisneyBoy]

He's not an amalgam of himself and Brainiac! That's his Kiss costume!

That sounds completely sarcastic. And then I read the rest and was like..."how far is he taking the joke?"

So you honestly mean that Darkseid WAS dressed-up in a Kiss costume? And that's the only reason for the new look?

:shrug:

How was Darkseid unbearable in "Destroyer?" It's one of my favorite Darkseid appearances, and I've seen nothing around here that suggests people hated his dialogue.

Well, I'm not "people". I'm DisneyBoy. And I speak only for myself, unless otherwise stated. And his dialogue sounded as cliche and trite as anything ever written for the Mortal Combat video games I'd occasionally come across while roaming hotel lobbies on vacation. Darkseid in S:TAS was reserved and spoke believably. That line was written to sound "Ultimate!!" and "XTREME!" but wasn't. You know how the Academy Awards are hyped like mad, but really underwhelming and unimportant? That's comparable to some of the best loved post-Starcrossed DCAU episodes.

In "Twilight" it was forgiveable - Superman had spent an entire Season seeming old and tired, making his "I'm back now - Let's Go!" speech something to smile about. But Darkseid? Since when did he ever need a Kiss outfit (can't get over that! Is it really true? UGH!) and a lot of pompous posturing to strike fear into the hearts of the viewers and raise the stakes? His reappearance struck a chord in "Alive!", but all the subsequent scenes and dialogue slowly eroded his credibility down to nothing.

[Karkull]

That was a KISS-inspired costume. I'm no expert on their costumes by any means, but many of the creators have said this in the past and "Alive!" and "Destoryer" are KISS albums, so it wasn't a joke.

Great interview. I especially liked the notion that Tala may have brought Darkseid back as payback for Luthor; Tala always struck me as someone who had more going on than just being evil arm candy.

[90'sCartoonMan]

That was a good interview. I thought Matt Wayne came aboard a bit sooner. Oh well, it's good to have him on LOSH now.


(I'm so totally lying. :p)

You had me going up until the holster bit.


And am I the only one who wants to see what a Bruce Timm glare looks like?

I want to make it my avatar.


So you honestly mean that Darkseid WAS dressed-up in a Kiss costume? And that's the only reason for the new look?

I don't mind Darkseid in a Kiss-inspired costume. They ARE comic book characters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Kiss_comic.gif), after all.

[SuperBat]

That sounds completely sarcastic. And then I read the rest and was like..."how far is he taking the joke?"

So you honestly mean that Darkseid WAS dressed-up in a Kiss costume? And that's the only reason for the new look?

:shrug:
Well, I doubt the character Darkseid said, "I'll wear my KISS costume just for the occasion." But the designers gave him a new look based on KISS. It's no different than Dan Turpin being based on Jack Kirby, and I doubt you'd have much negativity to say about them.


Well, I'm not "people". I'm DisneyBoy. And I speak only for myself, unless otherwise stated. And his dialogue sounded as cliche and trite as anything ever written for the Mortal Combat video games I'd occasionally come across while roaming hotel lobbies on vacation. Darkseid in S:TAS was reserved and spoke believably. That line was written to sound "Ultimate!!" and "XTREME!" but wasn't. You know how the Academy Awards are hyped like mad, but really underwhelming and unimportant? That's comparable to some of the best loved post-Starcrossed DCAU episodes.
A.) I agree that you're not people. :p
B.) If it's your opinion, then why did you say, "Darkseid was very unbearable in 'Destroyer,'" as if this is just popular belief? :confused:
C.) You are entitled to your opinion, but the "rain of fire" speech hardly came off as trite to me. Why? Well, not because it isn't. You're right. It is trite. It is cliche. But in the setting of the DCAU, coming from the character of Darkseid, and delivered by Michael Ironside, it works flawlessly.


In "Twilight" it was forgiveable - Superman had spent an entire Season seeming old and tired, making his "I'm back now - Let's Go!" speech something to smile about.
I agree with you on "Twilight." But here's something to consider (which I'm sure you have) about the "Let's go" comment. Darkseid said, "Let's go," in "Destroyer," as a rebuttal of Superman's cocky "Let's go," from "Twilight." That, to me, is part of what makes that scene so great.

[Yojimbo]

And am I the only one who wants to see what a Bruce Timm glare looks like?

It looks a lot like a Bruce Timm grin.

Really great read, though.

[Toddman]

Maybe I didn't read much of the "Chaos at the Earth's Core" talkback way back when, but I don't remember a lot of hate being expressed for Stargirl. Of course, I didn't write the episode, so such criticism may not have resonated very much with me.

At any rate, even if some fans were turned off by Stargirl, she certainly never garnered the amount of loathing that other characters from the show have received. After all, it's not like people were starting up new threads just to trash her......

Mr. Wayne is dead on about the Darkseid/Ambush Bug parody. I can't believe I didn't think of that when "Alive!" first aired. It's so true though. What was the big villain reveal in The Legion of Super-Heroes comic's Great Dakness Saga? Darkseid. Who was the mastermind behind the X-Men/New Teen Titans crossover? Darkseid. Who ended up being the bad guy making kissy faces at Wonder Woman on Superfriends? Darkseid. Dude was all over the place in the mid-80's.

And it's been said, but deserves repeating: cool insight on the Tala's Revenge angle.

However... if Darkseid did not aquire Brainiac technology from when his Mother Box corrupted and took over Brainiac's systems in "Twilight", how is the line "I'm more powerful than I've ever been" in "Destroyer" explained?


Toddman

[DisneyBoy]

But the designers gave him a new look based on KISS. It's no different than Dan Turpin being based on Jack Kirby, and I doubt you'd have much negativity to say about them.

I don't really care about Dan Turpin. I mean, yes, he's a well-written character and his death was emotional and well-done. But I neither have anything negative or positive to say about him, other than what I said in that last sentence.

As for Darkseid's costume, I have trouble respecting (oh boy, here we go) their choice to put him in a new outfit just to indulge b.t.'s love for Kiss. Throughout the DCAU there have been really interesting things used that we later found out (or knew already) were tributes (The Grey Ghost for instance), but that didn't detract from their use or leave us scratching our heads. The Viking Prince, Warlord and now Kiss tributes really felt strange and out-of-place. There was no real reason to have them on the show, and they weren't integrated in well enough to be accepted at first glance. That's really my beef with the final season - some good ideas, some tributes, but nothing really expertly pulled-off in the way past seasons and shows were. It just felt like randomness for the sake of it.

I'm not saying this to suggest b.t. and friends suck - they don't - but good writers and producers need to always put the needs of the show ahead of their own personal feelings. That's why you always hear about writers saying things like "I had to cut out this wonderful scene, and it killed me, but it was the right thing to do." If the Viking Prince had been cut out, Warlord had been cut out and Darkseid's costume and dialogue handled less strangely, I would have an entirely different view of this season.

However... if Darkseid did not aquire Brainiac technology from when his Mother Box corrupted and took over Brainiac's systems in "Twilight", how is the line "I'm more powerful than I've ever been" in "Destroyer" explained?

EXACTLY.

P.S. Before I forget to mention it yet again, good interview. Nice to hear so many opinions and explanations.

[Spider-Man]

Great interview! I already knew about the 'Kiss' influence for the titles of the last two Justice League Unlimited episodes but I think Wayne may have been joking about the design for Darkseid's actual costume. It makes sense if that costume is a result of a Darkseid/Brainiac merge. I think he may have been kidding there. Overall it was one of the best interviews I've read in awhile and right up there with Stu's recent interview with Frank Paur.

[A.J]

Great Interview indeed. All I got to say is this: They should had done this a 3 parter ending. PERIOD. Lots of dead ends and doubts.

[b.t.]

As for Darkseid's costume, I have trouble respecting (oh boy, here we go) their choice to put him in a new outfit just to indulge b.t.'s love for Kiss. Throughout the DCAU there have been really interesting things used that we later found out (or knew already) were tributes (The Grey Ghost for instance), but that didn't detract from their use or leave us scratching our heads. The Viking Prince, Warlord and now Kiss tributes really felt strange and out-of-place.t.



you forgot to mention spy smasher...

[SuperBat]

As for Darkseid's costume, I have trouble respecting (oh boy, here we go) their choice to put him in a new outfit just to indulge b.t.'s love for Kiss. Throughout the DCAU there have been really interesting things used that we later found out (or knew already) were tributes (The Grey Ghost for instance), but that didn't detract from their use or leave us scratching our heads.
Okay, I really don't know if the man was kidding or not, but this seems like pretty flawed logic. How can you say that using a visual as inspiration is... well, I don't know what you think it is, but it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. The character Darkseid was said to be modeled after an actor named Jack Palance (the cold-hearted gunslinger in "Shane," if that helps). Does that mean Jack Kirby was silly for designing him to look like someone? Every creation has to have been inspired by something. The team wanted Darkseid to have a new look, so they took the KISS motif and incorporated it into Darkseid (without coming off as corny in the character, I might add). He didn't belt out a KISS tune, or wear a T-shirt that said, "I love Gene Simmons." It was an inspiration for the design, just as Wolverine helped to inspire Hawkgirl's design. Let it go...

[DisneyBoy]

...and Al Rocker.

Oops...wait, that one worked.

Additions:

It's one thing to introduce a character with a look that pays homage to something else. That's part of the creative process when thinking about a character from scratch. And there too, the creator needs to carefully consider what they choose to incorporate into the design from their various sources of inspiration. I might like Julia Child, popcorn and rollerskates (I actually only like two of the three), but putting them together into a character who is supposed to be a llama playing baseball might not be appropriate. Just like bringing back a character from the dead in a completely different costume without any explanation (Brainiac is not part of the look, that much has been been confirmed) isn't appropriate...unless they're Jean Grey in X3, a film we should be glad got made half as well as it was, all things considered.

And I might have been more okay with the tributes, if b.t. and the gang has just gone full-throttle with them, and used Mxy as an excuse. Darkseid coming back from the dead wearing a Gene Simmons t-shirt? I'd probably have enjoyed that. Warlord showing up to stop the fleet of Parademons after having scraped his way out of the center of the earth? There's a laugh in that.

But an episode that's supposed to be epic and serious and memorable?

Last Edit: Titanic taught me to never let go. And to have a lot of babies.

[akomoron]

that was quite entertaining. although since im relatively new to the board, im not surprised there were criticisms from fans for stargirl. her rivalry/jealousy with supergirl was petty and came out of left field.

[PeterFries]

Great interview -- just finally read it. Some interesting tidbits about how the scripts were constructed.

This part was really depressing, though: :(


Regarding the Legion of Doom, we never once call the villains by that name onscreen. We had planned to have Flash use it as a hyperbolic way to refer to Grodd's new Secret Society in "The Great Brain Robbery." You know, "Luthor's got some kind of, I dunno, Legion of Doom." or whatever, and then we'd have the name stick. But a mid-level naysayer at DC thought the name was too corny, and that it must never be uttered.

[DisneyBoy]

I actually think it's cool that something was never called by it's true name on the show, but that everyone from the creators to the fans do.

[James]

I actually think it's cool that something was never called by it's true name on the show, but that everyone from the creators to the fans do.

I agree. Just because it isn't there, doesn't mean it, well, isn't there... even just in spirit. Creators and fans know the score, and that mutual unsaid piece of knowledge still has relevance. I can't explain it - I should have just agreed it was cool and shut up.

[Cortez2301]

I agree. Just because it isn't there, doesn't mean it, well, isn't there... even just in spirit. Creators and fans know the score, and that mutual unsaid piece of knowledge still has relevance. I can't explain it - I should have just agreed it was cool and shut up.Enough Said!

[Toddman]

I agree. Just because it isn't there, doesn't mean it, well, isn't there... even just in spirit.

Have you seen the back of the JLU Season 2 slipcase? It's definitely there now.



you forgot to mention spy smasher...

I'd like to think even Disneyboy can recognize that when something is as cool as the opening of "Patriot Act" was, it doesn't matter if the idea behind it has little or no relevance to the grander scheme of things. But I'm probably wrong.


Anyway, DB...about the Darkseid/KISS costume redesign: take a deep breath. It didn't seem to bother you when you thought there was a story-driven motive behind it. I'd like to think that just because one of the show's writers flippantly says otherwise, you shouldn't totally abandon the idea that your own theory about the new look still holds water within the framework of the show.

I'm of the mind that you trust the story, not the story teller. After all, remember that Dwayne McDuffie and b.t. had completely different ideas and interpretations about the flashback sequence in "Ancient History." Surely you're not drooling and mumbling away in a padded room just because that part of the story is vague and open to interpretation are you? Hopefully you've made up your own mind about what that story was trying to say and moved on.

If you think the change in Darkseid's costume works better with a "corruption of Brainiac" angle, rather than just a purely asthetic redesign based on a whim, then go with that. I am. Is it really justafiable to critisize the inspiration of a story idea?


Toddman

[b.t.]

I'm of the mind that you trust the story, not the story teller. After all, remember that Dwayne McDuffie and b.t. had completely different ideas and interpretations about the flashback sequence in "Ancient History." Surely you're not drooling and mumbling away in a padded room just because that part of the story is vague and open to interpretation are you? Hopefully you've made up your own mind about what that story was trying to say and moved on. Toddman

for the record, i think matt's either mistaken, mis-remembering or just messin' with y'all --- i thought it was pretty well implied that at least SOME of brainiac's matter got fused with darkseid's when he was re-configured and resurrected....that's how i interpreted it, anyway, and used that to justify designing some spiffier threads for darkseid, which i'd been tempted to do for years anyway.... for my part, the jazzed-up costume IS meant to represent a "new and improved" darkseid, suggesting a vaguely-defined fusion with brainiac, along with a slight "power upgrade" (that line from "destroyer" about ds being "more powerful than i've ever been").... seeing as the 2 episode titles reference KISS -- though i point out that each title is entirely appropos even if one doesn't get the KISS connection -- i couldn't resist incorporating some KISS-ish elements (notably the platform heels) into the new costume, but the end result is still more "kirby" than "kiss" (i think anyway)...

[A.J]

So b.t do you consider there are not dead ends/unfinished bussiness with JLU season 3? Do you consider it complete aka a 2 part finale enough to fill all the "holes" in the series? Just wondering :)

[SuperBat]

I'm of the mind that you trust the story, not the story teller. After all, remember that Dwayne McDuffie and b.t. had completely different ideas and interpretations about the flashback sequence in "Ancient History." Surely you're not drooling and mumbling away in a padded room just because that part of the story is vague and open to interpretation are you? Hopefully you've made up your own mind about what that story was trying to say and moved on.

If you think the change in Darkseid's costume works better with a "corruption of Brainiac" angle, rather than just a purely asthetic redesign based on a whim, then go with that. I am. Is it really justafiable to critisize the inspiration of a story idea?
I had originally included that idea in my last response, but decided it wasn't worth the trouble...


for the record, i think matt's either mistaken, mis-remembering or just messin' with y'all --- i thought it was pretty well implied that at least SOME of brainiac's matter got fused with darkseid's when he was re-configured and resurrected....that's how i interpreted it, anyway, and used that to justify designing some spiffier threads for darkseid, which i'd been tempted to do for years anyway.... for my part, the jazzed-up costume IS meant to represent a "new and improved" darkseid, suggesting a vaguely-defined fusion with brainiac, along with a slight "power upgrade" (that line from "destroyer" about ds being "more powerful than i've ever been").... seeing as the 2 episode titles reference KISS -- though i point out that each title is entirely appropos even if one doesn't get the KISS connection -- i couldn't resist incorporating some KISS-ish elements (notably the platform heels) into the new costume, but the end result is still more "kirby" than "kiss" (i think anyway)...
Glad to hear that answer. Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that Darkseid's motherbox corruption in "Twilight" could've been what gave him the upgrade. And with Tala at the helm, I figure any upgrade (whether Brainiac-related or completely original) makes sense. Magic brought him back from the dead, so in my mind, there doesn't have to be an explanation for his new appearance.

But all the same, I like the idea that Brainiac's satellite had some effect on Darkseid's resurrection. (And I don't mind the KISSpiration for the redesign either. ;) )

[DisneyBoy]

silly platform boots...

:D Why yes! I love the new design!

*runs back into a padded room*

[Stu]

Glad you all enjoyed the interview, just wanted to thank Matt again for agreeing to do it in what proved to be odd circumstances!

I especially liked Matt's take on current comics and how a lot of the folks don't realise that comics are comics - take the idea of most of their characters too seriously and the whole thing becomes beyond ridicolous.

Again, glad you all enjoyed it! Thanks for reading. :)