A "Wii" bit critical?

[Shawn Hopkins]

Anyone else see this article about a Spore developer bashing the Wii?

http://www.n-europe.com/news.php?nid=10161

Not really called for, I think. Warning: Bad language in the article and in the comments to it.

[Frank Castle]

It's always nice to see developers of games that should have been out a long time ago talk about systems they don't know s**t about.:shrug:

[ChuckRoast]

http://www.gwn.com/news/story.php/id/11595/Chris_Hecker_Doesnt_Really_Hate_The_Wii.html

He apologized. I guess this thing caused alot of buzz. Warning: Also contains stong language.

[FireStarterLE]

I hate people that do that

"BLAH BLAH ... HAHAHA BLAH!!!!!!"

"I'm sorry for my comments they were uncalled for"

you said what you said, an apology isn't going to help now. People already have their opinions of you ... no apology necessary we know you're lying.

[Invidente 7]

It's about time that someone speak up his mind about what the Wii REALLY is :) althought it's a pity they forced him to apologize, but as far as I'm concerned the guy's prophet :cool:

[Desensitized]

Wow, that was really uncalled for. He probably only did it for the publicity though.

[ZeroFate]

I agree with him on most points.

Although he should have figured the fanboys would make a bigger deal over this than they should have. God forbid he have an opinion.

[Ickis]

Kinda weird this guy mentions the Wii being more of a "fun" console yet isn't that the whole point of video games and consoles? To be fun? I always thought thats what the point was!

[.Automatisch]

Kinda weird this guy mentions the Wii being more of a "fun" console yet isn't that the whole point of video games and consoles? To be fun? I always thought thats what the point was!

He probably meant "fun" as in simple and lacking depth. And I'd say he's right, considering the best game is definitely Wii Sports, which is very simplistic...

[Beat]

Figures Nintendo fanboys would be crying a river over this, even though after you get past the language, most of what he's saying IS true. The Wii IS underpowered, Nintendo doesn't make games that are overly complex, and Spore would be impossible to run on Wii.

The language and tone are unnecessary, but people aren't mad at that, they're mad that he's attacking a console fanboys think can do no wrong.

[.Automatisch]

Figures Nintendo fanboys would be crying a river over this, even though after you get past the language, most of what he's saying IS true. The Wii IS underpowered, Nintendo doesn't make games that are overly complex, and Spore would be impossible to run on Wii.

The language and tone are unnecessary, but people aren't mad at that, they're mad that he's attacking a console fanboys think can do no wrong.

Nintendo fanboys run in packs... You'll never see a lone one trolling/flaming by itself... Such an odd creature, afraid to argue against others when it doesn't have the support it needs.

[Eddy]

There's nothing wrong with having an opinion. But what this guy said was uncalled for.

"oh noes the wii can't make pretty graphics."

A console doesn't need to be a graphical powerhouse to produce great looking and artistic games. Just look at Twilight Princess. Look at the trailers for Super Mario Galaxy, Super Paper Mario, and Super Smash Bros. Brawl.

Hell, the PS2, which was the weakest console of the last generation, had Okami. And Okami is, without a doubt, one of the most artistic games I have ever seen.

At least he apologized, but still, it was highly uncalled for.

[.Automatisch]

There's nothing wrong with having an opinion. But what this guy said was uncalled for.

"oh noes the wii can't make pretty graphics."

A console doesn't need to be a graphical powerhouse to produce great looking and artistic games. Just look at Twilight Princess. Look at the trailers for Super Mario Galaxy, Super Paper Mario, and Super Smash Bros. Brawl.

Hell, the PS2, which was the weakest console of the last generation, had Okami. And Okami is, without a doubt, one of the most artistic games I have ever seen.

At least he apologized, but still, it was highly uncalled for.

As a huge Zelda fan, I have to say I very much dislike TP's art style... I don't really think it's very "artistic" at all, and frankly it looks pretty lame. Ookami is definitely one of the most artistic games I've ever seen, however, and while people CAN create good looking games on inferior hardware, that doesn't make it "better". I don't understand why anyone would want all of their games to look like Mario, Zelda, etc, in today's world where we can create much more realistic figures that still retain their own style... Why should developers be confined to creating something that's "artistic" just because the hardware is weak?

[Mek]

The guy does have a right to his opinion -much less express it as well-, but he also has the right to make himself look like an ass as well.

While I certainly don't agree with what he said, I think this proves the point that we can't gripe about ANYTHING these days unless it's in agreement with the public majority. Case in point: Politics, religion and other hot-button social issues. The Wii = in favor with the public majority, so we can't say anything BAD about it, can we? Yet we can trash the PS3 all we want, since it's NOT in favor with the public majority.

Kinda backwards, don't you think?

Maybe it wasn't so much his comments that it was 'a piece of ****' so much as it was his 'Wii games aren't art' comment. I'm beginning to think that was what got alot of peoples' goats. Sure, 'Twilight Princess' maybe a Gamecube port, but that's certainly art in itself. And even to a lesser extent, things like 'Super Mario Galaxy' are art too.

But then again, art is subjective. So maybe what's art to us isn't art to him. I dunno.

Either way, it's unfortunate he backpeddaled on his opinion so soon. Would have loved to see him getting chewed out by other Wii developers who think otherwise from him, ala the Michael Richards fallout from a few months ago.


The language and tone are unnecessary, but people aren't mad at that, they're mad that he's attacking a console fanboys think can do no wrong.

I'm more inclined to think most of them are mad at him saying Nintendo's stuff isn't 'art'.

[Peter Paltridge]

The main reason why I don't feel like saying anything good about Sony these days is because their arrogant spokesmen need a punch in the face, not encouragement to continue being cocky. I don't think I'm alone here.

[.Automatisch]

The main reason why I don't feel like saying anything good about Sony these days is because their arrogant spokesmen need a punch in the face, not encouragement to continue being cocky. I don't think I'm alone here.
All 3 companies have arrogant spokespeople :/... What makes Reggie any less annoying and smug than Peter Moore or Phil Harrison?

[Mog]

snake;2453614']All 3 companies have arrogant spokespeople :/... What makes Reggie any less annoying and smug than Peter Moore or Phil Harrison?
Because he's not a total ******bag?

edit: Well, maybe Peter isn't as big a jerk as Phil, but still.

[.Automatisch]

Because he's not a total ******bag?

edit: Well, maybe Peter isn't as big a jerk as Phil, but still.

They're all a bunch of suits that don't play games and have dry senses of humor when it comes to the competition. It's not like Reggie's hanging out with people on the weekends playing the Wii with some fellow Nintendo fans. Their job is to trash the competition while making their own product seem the best, and that's what they do. And Nintendo isn't exactly a company who hasn't pulled the same stuff as Sony, like how they "developed something like HOME years ago, but decided not to go through with it because it was a bad move", or when they said the Wii wasn't "in the same market as the PS3 and 360", and yet once it becomes a best seller, it's somehow "leading" in sales over the holidays over the other two...

[Marvin Tikvah]

Way to stay professional in the face of the press, Mr. Spore Developer.

Wait, What is Spore anyway? In any case, I would've been more shocked if it came from someone who is actually known in the industry.

[Captain Highwind]

The main reason why I don't feel like saying anything good about Sony these days is because their arrogant spokesmen need a punch in the face, not encouragement to continue being cocky. I don't think I'm alone here.

Name me a video game spokesman that isn't cocky.


Wait, What is Spore anyway?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spore_%28computer_game%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spore_%28computer_game%29)

[.Automatisch]

Way to stay professional in the face of the press, Mr. Spore Developer.

Wait, What is Spore anyway? In any case, I would've been more shocked if it came from someone who is actually known in the industry.

Ummm, Spore is actually one of the most innovative games coming out... You might want to read up on it, as it will likely be one of the most interesting things to come out in the next few years.


Name me a video game spokesman that isn't cocky.
Exactly... Any big-name spokesperson is going to be an asshat when it comes to comparing their product to others...

[Mek]

snake;2453636']Ummm, Spore is actually one of the most innovative games coming out... You might want to read up on it, as it will likely be one of the most interesting things to come out in the next few years.

.... All it seems like to me is a more pretentious version of 'Black and White'.

What's so innovative about that? =/

[Ickis]

snake;2453481']He probably meant "fun" as in simple and lacking depth. And I'd say he's right, considering the best game is definitely Wii Sports, which is very simplistic... I figured that too. Some later Wii games might have depth or whatever but yea the Wii IS simple but that explains on of the reasons why its cheap.

[.Automatisch]

.... All it seems like to me is a more pretentious version of 'Black and White'.

What's so innovative about that? =/

If you don't "get" Spore, that's fine. It's only getting tons of praise from press, gamers, and developers alike for being new and innovative. The fact that it works the way it does across the world on a myriad of devices is amazing.


I figured that too. Some later Wii games might have depth or whatever but yea the Wii IS simple but that explains on of the reasons why its cheap.

Well... Noone's saying Wii games can't/don't have depth... But due to the nature of the forced controls in which you're using the Wiimote as a 1:1 means of interfacing with the game itself, there's only so much you can do before the limitation of technology come into play.

[James]

While on the whole this thread has remained.. sort of on topic, let's just watch how far we go into fanboy territory. I'm editing the title as I don't think it's objective and when we are dealing with what always becomes a turf fight, a little neutrality might be more prudent. Besides, I hate threads that are headed with an opinion rather than a topic description.

Keep it civil folks.

[Captain Highwind]

I'm editing the title as I don't think it's objective

How many uses can the name "Wii" bii used indiid...:D

[Juu-kuchi]

I'm ambivalent to Spore as it will probably murder my computer if I ever decide to install it.

Eh, as much as I have my own reservations on the Wii, his little tirade seemed to me like it could use better form.

[Dogasu]

Since when does simplistic = bad?

It's not a simple case of "oh noez he bashed my precious Wii!!!!!"; it's a case of an industry figure acting like a total ******bag about it and being called out for it. He should have the common sense to know that you don't go on a public forum and say that a system is a "piece of ****" and then not expect a backlash. I'd feel the same way about the developer if he was saying all this about the PS3 or the X-Box 360.

[Mynd Hed]

Since when does simplistic = bad?

It's not a simple case of "oh noez he bashed my precious Wii!!!!!"; it's a case of an industry figure acting like a total ******bag about it and being called out for it. He should have the common sense to know that you don't go on a public forum and say that a system is a "piece of ****" and then not expect a backlash. I'd feel the same way about the developer if he was saying all this about the PS3 or the X-Box 360.

THANK you. A few people criticize the guy for adopting an unnecessarily insulting tone to make his poorly-reasoned argument, and all of a sudden those people must be Nintendo fanboys and so their ideas can safely be pigeonholed and ignored. Blargh. While this board has certainly seen its share of fanboyism, I think it's the vague, blind accusations of fanboyism where none exists that is making reasoned discussion of the state of the video game industry seemingly impossible around here.

Preferring a console, debating its merits, and defending it where necessary do NOT a rabid, raving fanboy make. So if we can please stop using the word "fanboy" as a magic wand to make arguments we don't like go away, I think everybody will be a lot happier.

[Teio]

He has every right to criticize Nintendo but he must do so constructively especially in a professional atmosphere of peers and colleagues such as the GDC.

Chris Hecker's aforementioned statement is not a valid point of contention or an insightful assertion. It's a disrespectful metaphor used in his misguided attempt to summarize his points. However constructive the reasoning was for his disappointment in the Wii, it was overshadowed by his offensive rudiment conclusion. It's rudiment because the conclusion does not give the listener insight to the direction or basis of his argument. It was designed to be sensational not thought provoking.

He could've been just as critical in his opinion of the Wii being incapable of delivering the "Next gen" experience in terms of graphical prowess and Intelligent AI/Physics, and on Nintendo's frivolous disposition toward video games without making such a ribald premise to his argument.

In a forum such as the GDC, you can't conclude your valid points with a ribald statement nor can you vindicate a ribald statement by following it with valid points.

[Conekiller]

Mr. Wright, please just focus on getting Spore released, thanks!

[Undrave]

Since when does simplistic = bad?

It's not a simple case of "oh noez he bashed my precious Wii!!!!!"; it's a case of an industry figure acting like a total ******bag about it and being called out for it. He should have the common sense to know that you don't go on a public forum and say that a system is a "piece of ****" and then not expect a backlash. I'd feel the same way about the developer if he was saying all this about the PS3 or the X-Box 360.

Totally agree with you.

I don't see why 'simple' automatically means it's not fun. I mean look at Tetris. It's considered a classic game right? Yet it's just blocks falling down! It's ridiculously simple yet addictively fun.

[K-S-O]

Well, with all the people saying that the Wii is awesome and all, someone had to step up and say otherwise. Not that it would change my opinion though.

And on Nintendo games not being art: Elite Beat Agents = TRUE ART!!! :cool:

[peacebyanymeans]

And on Nintendo games not being art: Elite Beat Agents = TRUE ART!!! :cool:

HE[ck] YES!

[RAINMAN]

He say the 360&PS3 has lots of game he consider art? OK,then what are these so call games? Not once during his rant did he name one game from those systems. Just goes to show how pointless and foolish his rant truly is. Seeing how he was force to apoligies could mean he wont be making any speeches in public anytime soon.

[EscaflownePilot]

He say the 360&PS3 has lots of game he consider art? OK,then what are these so call games? Not once during his rant did he name one game from those systems. Just goes to show how pointless and foolish his rant truly is.That's just plain missing the point entirely.

He never said anywhere in his rant that Microsoft and Sony have games that are art and that Nintendo specifically doesn't, but rather, that both Microsoft and Sony very clearly treat video games as a legitimate form of art and market themselves as such, whereas Nintendo, in most cases, just doesn't share that philosophy. They seem to think of games as simple, fun pastimes for family, to be thought of not as art, but more in line with things like Sudoku or Monopoly.

Sure, there are probably plenty of people within Nintendo who believe in video games as an art form (which is why they can produce brilliance like Twilight Princess), but the company's philosophy and marketing on the whole has been trivializing video games in an effort to reach the mainstream populace, which really does degrade the efforts towards getting video games seen as a legit form of art.

[DarthGonzo]

They seem to think of games as simple, fun pastimes for family, to be thought of not as art, but more in line with things like Sudoku or Monopoly.


Ummm, last I check isn't that what video games are all about?

[HG Revolution]

If video games were "art", I wouldn't play them as much as I do. The term "art" tends to imply the artist is controlling what goes into the final piece, and the best video games tend to be free-roaming adventures and/or designed to test the individual player's skill. The visual design and in some cases the storyline in video games requires artistic skill to produce, but I'd consider computer animation and creative writing to be the artforms in those cases as opposed to the game production itself.

[Beat]

This is a direct counter to Miyamoto going off saying companies need to make "Happy games." Happy games, whatever the heck he meant by that, usually aren't complex, groundbreaking, or overly intellectual. And for an ambitious developer, that's not good at all.

[EscaflownePilot]

Ummm, last I check isn't that what video games are all about?They are about having fun, but it's ignorant to pretend there isn't a big artistic gap between something like Twilight Princess and something like Wii Sports, much like how there is a big gap between TV shows like The West Wing and The Simple Life. Both mean to entertain, but one is going heavily for multi-layered artistic value and social relevance, while the other is just there for simple entertainment.

And that's fine - there's a market for both and there's value in having both, but just as it's degrading when TV networks focus only on cheap thrills like Deal Or No Deal, it's also degrading to the industry as an art form when a gaming company's philosophy emphasizes the Wii Play's over the Twilight Princesses and Metroid Primes.

And, yeah, art is subjective and some people will bash me for not calling Wii Sports art because of how shiny and round the asses of the little Mii's are and all that, but all in all, the philosophy of Nintendo seems primarily on the non-artistic side of gaming, and that should be troubling to people.

[Mog]

And, yeah, art is subjective and some people will bash me for not calling Wii Sports art because of how shiny and round the asses of the little Mii's are and all that, but all in all, the philosophy of Nintendo seems primarily on the non-artistic side of gaming, and that should be troubling to people.
Don't think anyone here will "bash" you for not calling Wii Sports art, however some would probably have the opinion that it could be considered as such. I mean, KC's art museum has a giant shuttlecock on the front lawn, but I can promise you that much more people think it's there for decor and not for it's artistic value.

[Mynd Hed]

[Nintendo] seem[s] to think of games as simple, fun pastimes for family, to be thought of not as art, but more in line with things like Sudoku or Monopoly.

This is getting slightly off-topic, but does it seem to anyone else that these ideas shouldn't be mutually exclusive? Taking Monopoly as an example, I would tend to think that such an elegantly designed game that takes what is, on the surface, a remarkably boring subject matter (real estate speculation) and turns it into a deep strategic experience in which one must cooperate with one's opponents even as one competes against them, IS art. A different sort of art, to be sure, than a strong narrative experience like a book or film or an aesthetic experience like a painting or sculpture, but art nonetheless.

Just because Nintendo doesn't USE the word "art" in its marketing (because that would be bad business for them-- only a small minority of hardcore gamers really cares about how much their games explicitly try to be "artistic") doesn't mean that they don't care about games as art, or that the Wii as a platform is any less suitable for games-as-art than any other platform.

Art is such a broad term that to narrow it down and pigeonhole it to such an extent that only the most pretentious games possible need apply seems short-sighted to me.

[Nightwing]

The bottom line I get from this is nobody likes a jerk. Jerks don't help. Losing tempers doesn't help. And the purpose of criticism is SUPPOSED to be constructive.

There are too many things wrong with this world and the industries within our country, but if you try and speak out about them like that I promise you that you won't inspire great minds to solve the problems.


The guy does have a right to his opinion -much less express it as well-, but he also has the right to make himself look like an ass as well.

While I certainly don't agree with what he said, I think this proves the point that we can't gripe about ANYTHING these days unless it's in agreement with the public majority. Case in point: Politics, religion and other hot-button social issues. The Wii = in favor with the public majority, so we can't say anything BAD about it, can we? Yet we can trash the PS3 all we want, since it's NOT in favor with the public majority.

Kinda backwards, don't you think?

Yes, that's as frightening as it is important to consciously note. So let's at least record that in the back of our minds.



They are about having fun, but it's ignorant to pretend there isn't a big artistic gap between something like Twilight Princess and something like Wii Sports, much like how there is a big gap between TV shows like The West Wing and The Simple Life. Both mean to entertain, but one is going heavily for multi-layered artistic value and social relevance, while the other is just there for simple entertainment.

And that's fine - there's a market for both and there's value in having both, but just as it's degrading when TV networks focus only on cheap thrills like Deal Or No Deal, it's also degrading to the industry as an art form when a gaming company's philosophy emphasizes the Wii Play's over the Twilight Princesses and Metroid Primes.

And, yeah, art is subjective and some people will bash me for not calling Wii Sports art because of how shiny and round the asses of the little Mii's are and all that, but all in all, the philosophy of Nintendo seems primarily on the non-artistic side of gaming, and that should be troubling to people.

Absolutely. There's room and a market for "The Simple Life" in television, but when people use that as an excuse to make all shows The Simple Life, we lose out.

I personally don't have a problem with it in the gaming industry, because I'm not a hardcore gamer type. Not knowing much about the specific workings means I can't comment. I'm just a Nintendo man because I'm a fan of all the hero mascots over the years. Mario, Link, Samus, Megaman, et cetera.

[HG Revolution]

They are about having fun, but it's ignorant to pretend there isn't a big artistic gap between something like Twilight Princess and something like Wii Sports, much like how there is a big gap between TV shows like The West Wing and The Simple Life. Both mean to entertain, but one is going heavily for multi-layered artistic value and social relevance, while the other is just there for simple entertainment.

Wii Sports isn't art, but at least its better for you than The Simple Life.

[K-S-O]

This is a direct counter to Miyamoto going off saying companies need to make "Happy games." Happy games, whatever the heck he meant by that, usually aren't complex, groundbreaking, or overly intellectual. And for an ambitious developer, that's not good at all.

If you didn't know what they meant by "happy games," how do you know what they aren't?

Reading all the posts in this topic put this little thought in my mind. All these I've been playing video games, I've been unconsciously thinking "I don't care about art in games as long as I find them fun!" Sure I have gotten enjoyment out of Shadow of the Colossus, Okami, and the occasional Final Fantasy game. However being someone who thinks that Katamari is the greatest video game ever made, games with artistic value hasn't been such a big deal to me.

[Tash]

This is a direct counter to Miyamoto going off saying companies need to make "Happy games." Happy games, whatever the heck he meant by that, usually aren't complex, groundbreaking, or overly intellectual. And for an ambitious developer, that's not good at all.
I think that the point Miyamoto was trying to make is that video games are becoming too dark these days. That has nothing to do with the complexity of the game.

[Gokou Ruri]

I can see where that guy is coming from. The Wii sort of shot itself in the foot by being extremely less powerful than its competition, at least when it comes to developers for games like Spore, Bioshock, G.R.A.W, and other complex and high-dynamic games. I can see where a developer of Spore would be disappointed in the Wii since it doesn't have the power to make the same games the PC/360/PS3 can. Developers (well, most of them) want to make the best game, and when they can choose a high-powered system like the 360 instead of a low-powered system like the Wii, it makes sense. Also the forced use of the Wiimote can be a big problem with their games (the controls for the Sonic game are weirder/harder than they have to be)

[Beat]

I can see where that guy is coming from. The Wii sort of shot itself in the foot by being extremely less powerful than its competition, at least when it comes to developers for games like Spore, Bioshock, G.R.A.W, and other complex and high-dynamic games. I can see where a developer of Spore would be disappointed in the Wii since it doesn't have the power to make the same games the PC/360/PS3 can. Developers (well, most of them) want to make the best game, and when they can choose a high-powered system like the 360 instead of a low-powered system like the Wii, it makes sense. Also the forced use of the Wiimote can be a big problem with their games (the controls for the Sonic game are weirder/harder than they have to be)

For once we agree. :sweat: I'm expecting similar (though hopefully better worded) statements from other developers as time passes.

[Yash]

t's not like Reggie's hanging out with people on the weekends playing the Wii with some fellow Nintendo fans.
Actually, it is like Reggie's hanging out with people on... yeah. There was a recent IGN blog entry from the editor of the Nintendo section who re-collected his experience at GDC with Reggie, who was very engaged in playing games of Wii Tennis with people.

He's also been rather adamant about people attacking Red Steel for its poor controls, saying that once you get the hang of it, it's a great experience (and it really is. The problem with Wii games now is that developers and gamers alike are still trying to get used to the control scheme, which is why games like Sonic or Red Steel don't play well initially, but will get better as time goes on. If you recall, the Nintendo DS had a lot of control issues to begin with because developers would fit in ridiculous touch screen actions however they could).

As for Spore developer - I find it extremely annoying that most Nintendo critics choose to ignore the fact that Nintendo is producing games like Twilight Princess or Super Mario Galaxy, because, oh no, Wii Sports is meant to be a simple game that draws people into video games. I wouldn't say that Wii graphics are anything to cry over, either, seeing as how already a third-party game from a notoriously greedy company (Sonic & the Secret Rings; Sega/Sonic Team) has arguably already matched GameCube's best.

Also, shouldn't he be busy working on Spore?

[.Automatisch]

Also, shouldn't he be busy working on Spore?
The whole point of GDC is for developers to be able to voice their opinions to their peers about common issues that are troubling the industry. Many people speak out during GDC, and while he was a tad more blunt than the others, that doesn't change the fact that what he said was a relevant concern.

[BigLouMan20]

Oh no the Wii is a piece of crap for having games like Wii Sports (the game in which my relatives who never play games love) sucks because its too simple. :shrug: For the graphics part, it seems clear people haven't seen Sonic, Mario Galaxy, Metorid Prime, Super Smash Bros, Resident Evil, & Day of Crisis. Sure it's not 360/PS3, but its still pretty damn impressive.

[.Automatisch]

Oh no the Wii is a piece of crap for having games like Wii Sports (the game in which my relatives who never play games love) sucks because its too simple. :shrug: For the graphics part, it seems clear people haven't seen Sonic, Mario Galaxy, Metorid Prime, Super Smash Bros, Resident Evil, & Day of Crisis. Sure it's not 360/PS3, but its still pretty damn impressive.

It was impressive last-gen when the Xbox was pushing out games like Ninja Gaiden and DOA3... But that was in 2004 and 2001, respectively... In the year 2007, the graphics of the Wii are not impressive by any means. I personally don't care too much about graphics if a game is fun, but don't come in here saying the games are still "impressive".

[BigLouMan20]

Just pointing out how a new system always get the boot until the following year.

[RomanMack]

I don't see why developers striving to make the "best game" can't do so on the Wii. Graphics help, but don't decide that factor. And lately, developers have been hiding behind "graphics" and not adding much of anything else.

[.Automatisch]

I don't see why developers striving to make the "best game" can't do so on the Wii. Graphics help, but don't decide that factor. And lately, developers have been hiding behind "graphics" and not adding much of anything else.

Power != graphics only... It also has to do with being able to handle physics and environments that can make a game closer what the developers want. The Wii clearly cannot handle the stuff found in CellFactor, while the PS3 and 360 are able to. If you have no idea what I'm talking about, just look up some videos on CellFactor, or have a look at other games that use intensive physics.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=9958&type=mov&pl=game

^^ A video of what I'm talking about. While it is a good example of how power is needed to be able to run physics that intensively, it is not the only game that will be utilizing them as a means that are integral to gameplay.

[RomanMack]

That maybe be true, but that still doesn't mean that the Wii can't have some of the best games around. A game doesn't need to be a technological marvel to be "one of the best".

[Willie Trombone]

Hey wasn't it announced a little while back that a version of Spore for the DS was in the works?

[.Automatisch]

That maybe be true, but that still doesn't mean that the Wii can't have some of the best games around. A game doesn't need to be a technological marvel to be "one of the best".
Again, I don't think anyone is saying that's not the case. But it's much easier for someone to bring something to life on more powerful hardware because they have more room to work, and can do more advanced techniques to bring it closer to realization.

[Teio]

No one is disputing that there will be not only be graphical limitations but complex dynamic physics (light interaction with objects, object interaction from other objects and influences) short comings as well compared to developing for the PC, PS3 or X360. The resource limitations have been raised therefore developers will maximize all of the hardware's assets to produce the complex interactions, subtleties and nuances that you see in coming games.

However, the Wii is a testament that the ratio of graphics, AI, and physics is at an acceptable level for now. The assertion is that everything else you see though aesthetically pleasing and emotionally moving (like Little Big Planet or Crysis) is completely inessential at the moment. That Publishers and Developers should spend less resources devoting man power, money and overall time to physics interaction & graphics but instead refocus that energy on improving the game play & level design. The question is asked - Is X factor so essential that the game play mechanics would drastically suffer without it OR is X factor only essential to moving the person emotionally with awe and wonder? Graphics and, depending on the essential nature, Physics create the palpable atmosphere of immersion and role-playing but it doesn't have that much of an influence on game play mechanics.

The reason why the Wii cannot survive on games designed for the PC, PS3, or X360 is because the development money has already been invested. So of course, one would rather have the one with the most exquisite graphics as the game play is basically the same. The Wii is designed to compel Developers from the beginning of the project to not focus on luxurious graphics & physics therefore reducing the cost & time considerably, focusing some of that extra money, time, and man power on game play (hence the purpose of the Wii remote) & level design, and possibly giving confidence to Independent Developers who don't have the money and man power to compete with the 10 million dollar invested games.

[Juu-kuchi]

That maybe be true, but that still doesn't mean that the Wii can't have some of the best games around. A game doesn't need to be a technological marvel to be "one of the best". But it really really really really does help.

I mean especially when I look at games like LittleBigPlanet, which by all accounts one could consider a happy game. It's amazing what they're pushing in terms of physics engines. It's games like this that Nintendo should be producing, not the other way around.

[RAINMAN]

I could careless about graphic or this art nonsense. As long the games are fun and good thats what all matther. The word art should only be used for something seen in a musem. Useing it for things related to VG`s just sound silly.

[Eddy]

The word art should only be used for something seen in a musem. Useing it for things related to VG`s just sound silly.
Well, you shouldn't say that. Art can be found everywhere. In video games, movies, music, TV shows. It shouldn't just be limited to paintings and sculptures.

[Shawn Hopkins]

I want a Wii. Then I could decide for myself.

I don't get the idea that "fun" and "art" are somehow mutually exclusive. One guy mentioned Katamari already. That's both one of the funnest games I've ever played and one of the most artistic. It has unique visuals, unique music and challenges how you think about the relationship between physical objects. It's like playing an art installation.

The Wii is underpowered, though. He's not wrong about that. Look at all the Playstation II ports it's getting. Nintendo has created a different type of system that won't get games that use new technology such as Bioshock or Spore. Will this push it to being a "niche" system or will every gamer in America suddenly become a Luddite and say, to hell with new technology? Don't hold your breath for the second one.

My theory: There is a Wii version of Spore. Chris Hecker was assigned to develop it. The challenge drove him mad.

[Noukon]

There is a Wii version of Spore announced. Hell, they're doing a DS version, even. Of course, every version outside of the PC/360/PS3 arena is going to have to be dumbed down, since the procedural generation requirements are going to be so intense.

[Vermunium]

There is a Wii version of Spore announced. Hell, they're doing a DS version, even. Of course, every version outside of the PC/360/PS3 arena is going to have to be dumbed down, since the procedural generation requirements are going to be so intense.

Looks like it's the PC version for me then, because I want the full experience. That, and I don't have a 360 or PS3.

[Leviathan]

Even though I love Nintendo and wouldn't trade them for anything, It's not worth the stamina to get worked up over this guy's comments. If you do, then you'd have to get steamed at pretty much everything else that's said in the videogae industry.

[Gokou Ruri]

Looks like it's the PC version for me then, because I want the full experience. That, and I don't have a 360 or PS3. I opt for PC versions of all games available, myself, if only because of the mod community and possible patches.

[Noukon]

From everything I've read, it sounds like the PC version will have the best online functionality, as well.