Superman/Batman #20 - 25 "Vengeance" Talkback (Spoilers)

[Clayface]

Jeph Loeb's final Superman/Batman storyline begins!

SUPERMAN/BATMAN #20

http://comics.toonzone.net/solicitations/2005-04/batman-superman/t-superman-batman20.jpg (http://comics.toonzone.net/solicitations/2005-04/batman-superman/superman-batman20.jpg)

Written by Jeph Loeb
Art and cover by Ed McGuinness & Dexter Vines

The original superstar team of Jeph Loeb and Ed McGuinness return for what's sure to be the most talked-about story of the year! This issue kicks off the stunning 6-part “With a Vengeance,” as Superman and Batman confront The Maximums! Can the World's Finest pair take on a squad of revenge-seeking Super-Heroes who are on the hunt for the murderer of one of their teammates? Things are sure to heat up fast, because the two people at the top of their suspect list are Batman and Superman!

Comments?

[rggkjg1]

ARGHHHH! this had to have been the weakest issue in the entire series. i just hope mr. loeb's last arc doesnt turn out to be his worst durring his run. somethings just didnt seem right. batman and superman must have boomed to different earth in the begining fight and the bizzaro dialogue was difficult to read as well. i just wish this book was not going to be late. this arc doesnt seem worth the wait at all.

[Condiment King]

I picked this up on a whim since Jeph Loeb's last arc wasn't bad (I read a couple of issues of it) and Ed McGuinness's art is superior. Unfortunately, this wasn't that hot of an issue. It was really boring and just...blah. Not worth it. The two little stories in between the main story were fine, I guess with the bizarro Batman and such, but the main story was terribly boring. **

[Chad Bonin]

I found myself trying to find Maximum/Avenger references and deciphering Batzarro too much.

[King_of_doom]

I didn't like this issue. I hope it gets at least as good as the "Public Enemies" arc.

[Blue Zeo]

I agree but it was nice to see McGuinness back on as artist. It is fitting that he is around for the last storyline.

[Clayface]

SUPERMAN/BATMAN #21

http://images.comicbookresources.com/solicits/dc072005/batman_superman/small/SupermanBatmanCv21.jpg

Written by Jeph Loeb
Art and cover by Ed McGuinness & Dexter Vine

Part 2 of the 6-part "With a Vengeance," by the fan-favorite team of writer Jeph Loeb and artists Ed McGuinness & Dexter Vines! Are Superman and Batman guilty of murder? The Maximums certainly think so - and where they come from, it's an eye for an eye! The battle of the century continues as The World's Finest duo take on the super squad of avenging heroes - to the death! Join Superman/Batman's original creative team supreme for what's certain to be the most talked-about event of the year!

Comments?

[rggkjg1]

i really want to stop caring about this series now. the last 2 issues were completely pointless and seem like to be going nowhere. of course dc might say this is a villians united tie in to sell more copies. the time waiting in delays for this current arc is definately not worth it at all.

[Chad Bonin]

Surprisingly weak arc so far.

[halinar]

this title is dropped as of this issue. Just horrible and not worth the $3 price tag. I'll look at it again once this arc is done and over.

[wonderfly]

Like alot of other readers, I'm really let down with this issue. I wish Loeb could get the magic back that he had earlier in the series.

[Clayface]

SUPERMAN/BATMAN #22

http://images.comicbookresources.com/solicits/dc082005/batman_superman/small/SupermanBatmanCv22.jpg

Written by Jeph Loeb
Art and cover by Ed McGuinness & Dexter Vines

The creative team-supreme writer Jeph Loeb and artists Ed McGuinness & Dexter Vines ratchet up the intensity in Part 3 of the 6-part "With a Vengeance!" After revealing the mysterious puppet master who has sent the Maximums after Superman and Batman, the World's Finest heroes make a daring escape! But they'll never escape alive when they come face to face with…themselves? It can't get more lethal than when they travel "All Across the Universes!" Minus…not introducing the startling Bizarro and Batzarro!

Comments?

[rggkjg1]

ok, it's somewhat good now. but on the whole this story is still looking to be a piece of crap. please let the latenesses end.

[Steven C]

Anyone see the comic Superman Batman #22 today? DCAU fans will be plesantly suprised, I know I was. :D

Mod Edit: Connection to Animated DC Universe is slim at best. It's a cute nod to animated fans, nothing more. Moved to Comic Book Culture Board and placed in the proper talkback thread (plus, it's a horrible comic book).

[Style]

Okay, I'll bite...

[Vin]

I'm no a comics reader, but according to another forum, Terry McGinnis showed up.

[Steven C]

I'm no a comics reader, but according to another forum, Terry McGinnis showed up.Its an awesome twist and I dont know if any of you care, but Red Son Superman shows up as well.

[Furious Nick]

The last pannel guest appearances were totally unexpected, but still very nice surprises. The thing about this book that I have been focusing on the most is the Marvel knock off characters, and whom they choose to put in the book. This arc seemed kind of dull to me at first, but started to interest me more and more later. Also, Ed's art in always great! This is definately worth the price of admission. Especially if you are wanting a break from DC's universe spaning crisis event.

[sdp]

I am going to act all cool in this post but my inner fanboy right now is going:

"omg omg omg omg omg omg omg!!!!!!! omg!!' :D

[adoptedBatpuppy]

I'll get it when they collect all of the issues in one trade paper back or hardcover edition, like they did with Batman/Superman Absolute Power. When willl that be?

[Style]

I don't know who "Red son Superman" is, but I'm interested in this Terry Maguiness appearance. So, was it Terry Maguiness/Batman (as in, time travel/universe crossing kind of stuff going on,) or is it "just" Terry Maguiness? Because if he exists when Bruce is still young and healthy, that probably means he can't become Batman. And if Terry can't become Batman, then I don't know what they're gonna use him for.

[sdp]

It could mean anything from just a cameo to Batmans replacement as rumored in the aftermath of Infinite Crisis.
Red Son Superman is an elseworlds story on what would superman had been if he had landed on the Soviet Union.
very interesting.

[ROBOTRON]

WOW.:eek:


Almost as awesome as when I saw the Beginning of the "Epilogue" episode of JLU for the first time and there was Terry McGinnis....I was like HECK YEAAAAAH!!!!:cool:

[LeatherWings]

From what I've heard two villians are sent to alternate realitys or somehting like tha, Bizarro Bat and Bizarro Supes I think, and they meet a Terry McGinnis looking Batman, who I'm not sure if he is named Terry or not, and they meet a Red Son Superman.

[JLU Dude]

Since Ed McGuiness is drawinmg the arc, did he draw Batman Beyond, in an animated-ish style or his own sytle?:)

[Somejerk]

DAMN! I was very close to dropping this title and with one cameo on the very last page I now have to buy at least one more issue

[audiecugi]

The last pannel guest appearances were totally unexpected, but still very nice surprises. The thing about this book that I have been focusing on the most is the Marvel knock off characters, and whom they choose to put in the book. This arc seemed kind of dull to me at first, but started to interest me more and more later. Also, Ed's art in always great! This is definately worth the price of admission. Especially if you are wanting a break from DC's universe spaning crisis event.
I don't follow the comic much, but didn't DC already to a crisis thing in the 80's? Are you telling me that they are doing another one? How many crisis' do you need?

[ROBOTRON]

I don't follow the comic much, but didn't DC already to a crisis thing in the 80's? Are you telling me that they are doing another one? How many crisis' do you need?
LOL, you got a point there.:sweat:

[Temple Fugate]

We obviously need one every 20 years. The 60's had Crisis on Earths 1 and 2, the 80's had Crisis on Infinite Earths, and now we're getting Infinite Crisis. I guess you really can't top that title. What's next for 2025? Crisis on Infinite Levels of Infinity Forever?

CoIE had a point, and that was to clean up continuity. This crisis seems like an attempt to reinvigorate the DCU by beating it to a bloody pulp an then conducting plastic surgery to make it look all new and shiny. But I'm still going to read it regardless, this is going to rock. :)

[Cyber E.]

Yeah, Loeb is pretty crazy with this book. He has been using an endless amount of cameos in his run, and to honest it's not that surprising that he would reach into the Animated and Elseworlds universe for some more.


I don't follow the comic much, but didn't DC already to a crisis thing in the 80's? Are you telling me that they are doing another one? How many crisis' do you need?
This crisis is different from the '86 miniseries. '86's Crisis of Infinite Earths was brought about because there were some ten or twenty different universes contained in the DCU, some of which had the same heroes as other universes except for minor differences such as age and origin. This upcoming crisis, Infinite Crisis, is supposed to have long-lasting ramifications in the DCU, but it's not supposed to be in the same manner as CoIE was. There are several books that are excluded from IC as of now, and while S/B #6 had something that strongly hinted to the upcoming Crisis, this book is one of them.

[I-Am That Is]

I don't suppose anyone can scan and post a pic?

[Stu]

Sure can. :)

http://marvel.toonzone.net/Stu/sb.jpg

"A little early for Hallo'ween isn't it?" Utterly brilliant!

[jv2k]

O_O
It sounds and looks like terry... it has to be him...

[DisneyBoy]

Spoiler:

The Joker reference and the B:TAS Batwing too? Woah. Nifty.

[randomguy]

It was a very cool moment. What's great is that the dialogue is so dead-on for that character. You can hear Will Friedle's voice in your head when you read it.

Superman/Batman has been playing with alternate realities since the beginning of its run, and supposedly this arc is Loeb's attempt at explaining why the characters of Superman and Batman are important to all fiction, so it's no surprise that he'd start venturing into this kind of territory. The real question is...

Is this merely an alternate reality/future which is similar to the DCAU, or is it an actual crossover with the DCAU? Could go either way. Should be interesting to see, at any rate. It's probably one of the more interesting things Jeph Loeb has done on the title recently. That said, the book has been pretty incoherent and hard-to-follow ever since the "Absolute Power" arc.

[batmanbeyond13]

I love the fact that Ed Mc Guiness drew Batman Beyond. His artwork has a cross between Bruce Timm's D C A U and a sort of action figure look. When he's doing the D C characters, I feel like I'm watching an episode of Batman or Superman. And it does help that Jeph Loeb writes as great as the J L U episodes are written. Jeph Loeb was a writer on Smallville. By the way, the season premiere of Smallville was dedicated to his son, Sam, who died of cancer recently. And the season premiere actually beat the infamous Survivor. Cool.

[sdp]

I've seen that cover of batman fighting a bunch of other batmans like old versions of himself etc that included the DCAU batman, i have no clue what that story was about or if it was even relevant, but that could have been another instant of a "cross over"

[LeatherWings]

We obviously need one every 20 years. The 60's had Crisis on Earths 1 and 2, the 80's had Crisis on Infinite Earths, and now we're getting Infinite Crisis. I guess you really can't top that title. What's next for 2025? Crisis on Infinite Levels of Infinity Forever?

CoIE had a point, and that was to clean up continuity. This crisis seems like an attempt to reinvigorate the DCU by beating it to a bloody pulp an then conducting plastic surgery to make it look all new and shiny. But I'm still going to read it regardless, this is going to rock. :)
Well there's actually more than that, but the first two I believe have been the only one's that mess around with he timeline too much and all. But there's lots more with Crisis in it, like a couple years back there was Identity Crisis.

[FelineFatale23]

Although the inner fangirl in me is screaming with joy right now, there's always a possibility that Batman Beyond really ISN'T Terry:

Could just be another version of Bruce in the BB suit, only, with a similar background as Terry. And he lived father into the future.

[randomguy]

There's not much to say about this title at this point, because anybody who's read any of the previous 21 issues knows what to expect. It's the same old roller-coaster ride of action, obscure comics references and quips, with very little narrative focus. It's not at all bad, and there's an endearing energy to it, but it's also not particularly compelling when you get right down to it. Special? No. But the last few pages are interesting enough, and it has a certain wide-eyed charm. Not a bad installment. Grade: C

[Chad Bonin]

Wow, I so am sorry that I left this in the bottom of the stack for about a week.


I've seen that cover of batman fighting a bunch of other batmans like old versions of himself etc that included the DCAU batman, i have no clue what that story was about or if it was even relevant, but that could have been another instant of a "cross over"I believe that was something dealing with Zero Hour... or was it all the post-Crisis foundation settling?

[Jordo]

>>I've seen that cover of batman fighting a bunch of other batmans like old versions of himself etc that included the DCAU batman, i have no clue what that story was about or if it was even relevant, but that could have been another instant of a "cross over">>


Haha! I have this! I was looking through an old cabinet the other day and found this issue!

I bought it back in the day BECAUSE the Timm Batman was on the cover, but he's NOT actually in the comic. ARRGH! It pissed me off then and now!

-Jordan

[swarlock]

I don't follow the comic much, but didn't DC already to a crisis thing in the 80's? Are you telling me that they are doing another one? How many crisis' do you need?
Yes they are. To "fix" the mess they started back in The 80's.
Or so I've read in the DC Comics forum.

[J-Ranger]

What mess in the 80's was caused by crisis? Infinite Crisis has to do with the fact that people keep on returning from the dead. Something to do with Raven & Brotherblood, or so I heard.

[Anthonynotes]

Time to chime in with useless DC trivia once more...

Back in the day (from about 1961 through 1986), the "DCU" (though not the term used back then) was split into various alternate realities, the main two being named "Earth-One" (the "mainstream" Earth, home of the JLA and associated contemporary characters), and "Earth-Two" (the home of the Golden Age guys of the 1940s, like the Justice Society). Earth-2 was introduced in 1961's famous Flash story, "The Flash of Two Worlds", with the JSA soon brought back after it proved a hit, finally meeting the JLA in the 1963 story "Crisis On Earth-One" (the two teams teamed up to stop villains from both Earths robbing people blind...no time-altering stuff or anything here). This started a series of annual teamups between the two teams that ran through the mid-80's; the teamups would involve stopping threats to both Earths, as well as sometimes visits to other Earths (such as "Earth-X", where the Nazis had dragged out World War II into the present day and were mostly in charge).

Other minor Earths started to appear in stories over the years (like Earth-S, for the capt. Marvel family and the other fawcett characters), but Earth-1 and -2 were the main worlds; when another Earth did appear, it was usually explained within the story's context what it was in a panel or two. JLA-JSA teamup stories usually were called "Crisis On Earth-<name>" or some variation on the old "Crisis On Earth-1" title.

Earth-2 was created to explain things such as how Superman Batman etc. were still young in the present, and why the early versions of them in the 40's were different from their present-day versions. Thus, on Earth-2, the characters there aged in real time, and got married (Superman and Batman of that world), died (Batman, Catwoman), and all the other "realistic" stuff like that current fans seem to want. Earth-2 thus was allowed to evolve, while Earth-1 (the mainstream world) was the usual status quo with non-aging characters, etc.

Crisis on INfinite Earths came along in '85 as a means of suposedly A) boosting sales by remaking the DCU over into a more Marvel-like single universe for all, B) getting rid of alternate Earths to "make things easier to understand" , C) reboot various characters with new backstories (Superman, Wonder Woman). However, the execution and followup left a lot to be desired, and made a lot of things more confusing (not all characters were rebooted at the same time, or rebooted at all, and the various retcons made up for the rebooted or "post-Crisis" characters also muddled things; see Hawkman, or the idea that Wonder Woman was "no longer" a founding JLA member---I don't see frankly how Black Canary, her "substitute" retroactively, was suposed to do half the stuff WW did in some of the 60's JLA stories...).

As for the excuse that alternate Earths were confusing, that seemed inaccurate to me----the main problems for Pre-crisis continuity was probably similar to their current reality---Earth-One had the same timeline situation as the current day DCU: a world where Superman had to be the first hero, but he and Batman weren't over 30 or so---while the Teen Titans were allowed to age. That, and a few other minor points, of course.

Re: Making things more like Marvel: DC had lower sales at the time, and thought aping Marvel's style/tone would get them higher sales...which they could've just hired new writers for to achieve. Think DC also wanted to get rid of "unwanted baggage" like Krypto or the goofier 60's aspects as another excuse, except that by the mid-80's, things already had been more "serious" for some time---the Batman of 1984 spent his time dealing with drug dealers and the like, even if (technically) Bat-Mite and the "wacky space aliens" of the early 60's were still a part of his history (though an ignored-by-the-writers part).


THus, for me, "Crisis On Infinite earths" was a nice story, but with highly questionable results at best.

"Zero Hour" was a '94 storyline that did the same thing crisis did, only to eliminate all future alternate timelines by rebooting their universe (and let some characters have more retcons added, like the "Batman didn't find out who his parents' killer is"/"he's only an urban legend to Gothamites" nonsense), as well as clean up the stuff "Crisis" supposedly didn't take care of earlier (or to resolve the problems "Crisis" generated, like Hawkman's completely screwed up past). For the record, I hate "Zero Hour"... a lot. ;-)


"Identity Crisis" didn't do any rebooting like ZH or Crisis---it was a story that (SPOILERS) used characters still marketed toward children in a story revealing that a minor superhero (Elongated Man)'s wife was brutally raped by a villain (Dr. Light) years ago, then in the present to see her killed off by another hero's ex-wife (after discovering she was pregnant), with no following up on how she dealt with being raped or anything, just on whether "mind wiping villains to forget secret identity info is ethical/OK or not". Feh. "Infinite Crisis" apparently (somehow) ties into all this, as a rather cynical uber-crossover effort aparently meant to make things even darker/more grim and gritty (with everything I hate about their current superhero books thrown in: psycho paranoid Batman, pointless minor character assassination, etc.). Double-feh.

Thus, all in all, I say they were better off when they had seperate parallel Earths. If they wanted a "bold new direction," they could've just hired new writers and not done such confusing retroactive "bridge-burning" (as the lengths current writers go through to reintroduce characters eliminated by Crisis, such as Krypto, old-school Bizarro, etc. show). (Shrug).

[JLU Dude]

"Zero Hour" was a '94 storyline that did the same thing crisis did, only to eliminate all future alternate timelines by rebooting their universe (and let some characters have more retcons added, like the "Batman didn't find out who his parents' killer is"/"he's only an urban legend to Gothamites" nonsense), as well as clean up the stuff "Crisis" supposedly didn't take care of earlier (or to resolve the problems "Crisis" generated, like Hawkman's completely screwed up past). For the record, I hate "Zero Hour"... a lot. ;-)
More useless DC Comics Trivia: The actual Zero Hour mini-series was published with the subtitle "A Crisis in Time.":D

[El Zorro]

We obviously need one every 20 years. The 60's had Crisis on Earths 1 and 2,
Actually there were more than that. Pretty much every 60s/70s JLA-JSA team up was Crisis on Earth-[Fill in the blank]



CoIE had a point, and that was to clean up continuity.
Yeah, too bad it failed miserably and only made a huge mess out of continuity that people have been trying to piece together ever since.

[FALLEN ELDOR]

with the new all star line launching perhaps we will see the "mainstream" DCU change and grow like earth 2 did in the 70's? I just hope somewhere down the line a decade or so from now, someone retcons Frank Miller's awful writing ;)

[Beyond Batman]

Other than the DCAU comic version of Batman Beyond, I think this is the first time they've shown Batman Beyond in mainstream continuity outside of the DCAU.... even if it is an alternative universe. I always thought having Batman Beyond introduced into a future continuty of DC would be great. I really like how that one page entertains that idea.

[James]

"Identity Crisis" didn't do any rebooting like ZH or Crisis---it was a story that (SPOILERS) used characters still marketed toward children in a story revealing that a minor superhero (Elongated Man)'s wife was brutally raped by a villain (Dr. Light) years ago, then in the present to see her killed off by another hero's ex-wife (after discovering she was pregnant), with no following up on how she dealt with being raped or anything, just on whether "mind wiping villains to forget secret identity info is ethical/OK or not".

Without getting TOO off topic, I had the same problem.

The flashback had the poor woman raped for the sake of creating a conundrum of circumstance for the heroes. There are even panels after she's been raped where not ONE of the heroes are interested in her situation, but more concerned with the ideology over the "justice" of the situation.

I have NO problem with adult themes in comics - even when kids are marketted as long as they are used maturely and responsibly. This start to the series put me off buying any follow up. I expected more from DC, but like with Marvel, it appears the marketting department probably wield ten fold more say in the creative department than the, erm, creative department; the shock is more important to sales than integrity.

As for that final page - it looked great to see an animated design moved to have more "comic" traits. Loved it. Always enjoy Loeb's work. He does seem to have trend in being employed to do "epic sagas" (I've not been fortunate to see any of his more recent work which hasn't been epical), but that's what he seems to constantly paid to do - and he does it well.

[I-Am That Is]

I always thought having Batman Beyond introduced into a future continuty of DC would be great. Cool, me too!:D

[Ultraman Nexus]

Well now that he's in mainline DC Comics he'll prolly he'll wind up a jerk that has the power of prep-time. Or maybe they'll just have Dr. Light rape him or maybe he'll just start killing people. Darkness and shock value=sales, right? :sad:

Until such time as DC can prove they're changing course I'll just stick with the cartoons, thanks.

[Beyond Batman]

Well now that he's in mainline DC Comics he'll prolly he'll wind up a jerk that has the power of prep-time. Or maybe they'll just have Dr. Light rape him or maybe he'll just start killing people. Darkness and shock value=sales, right?
Nope. Great stories = sales. You must be a huge DC comics fan. :rolleyes:

[Ultraman Nexus]

Nope. Great stories = sales. You must be a huge DC comics fan. :rolleyes:
I'm a HUGE fan of DC Characters. I WAS a huge fan of their comics but when it became clear the only thing they are intrested in doing with them is drowning them in darkness, death and even turning these heroes into asshats I stopped buying.

[Clayface]

SUPERMAN/BATMAN #23

http://images.comicbookresources.com/solicits/dc092005/batman_superman/small/SupermanBatmanCv23.jpg

Written by Jeph Loeb
Art and cover by Ed McGuinness & Dexter Vines

Get ready for more pulse-pounding thrills from the original World's Finest creators - Jeph Loeb, Ed McGuinness & Dexter Vines - in part 4 of the 6-part "With a Vengeance," guest-starring Supergirl! Superman and Batman may have escaped the Maximums, but that doesn't stop those vengeance-seeking superheroes from starting a full-scale invasion of Earth - with everyone who's ever been a Maximum! And somehow this is all tied to Darkseid's fate and the most unexpected death you'll see this year!

Comments?

[Chad Bonin]

Well, disappointment ensues in issue #23.

One of the lines over the comm link to Beyond Batman calls him... Tim.

Damn. I wanted Terry.

[Starba]

Loeb's oddly hit or miss when it comes to giving fans what they want. He's either RIGHT on the money or WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY out of the ballpark. I was loving his run on Superman/Batman until his interpretation of the playboy Bruce Wayne REALLY would have been if his parents hadn't died. Now I'm begging he'd either stop bending the limits of continuity with other books or just stop writing stories that are supposed to be canon in the first place. His whole constant blockbuster summer movie approach to writing his stories kind of cheapens the fact that really big events are going on elsewhere, too. But it's cool that he gives the DCAU the recognition it's due, considering his boss is in charge of the embargoes that are trying to kill it off. :shrug:

Long live BB!

[rggkjg1]

wow. this was a really pointless issue. i wouldn't say that there was anything "bad" but wow. i really hope this arc will turn itself around.

[Grimlock]

"A little early for Hallo'ween isn't it?" Utterly brilliant!And, as disneyboy mentioned, the BTAS batwing, very cool!

[James]

But it's cool that he gives the DCAU the recognition it's due, considering his boss is in charge of the embargoes that are trying to kill it off. :shrug:
Long live BB!
I agree, I think the nod of respect to DCAU is worth it's weight in gold and fans shouldn't complain. I like that. And again, it isn't the embargo killing of DCAU, it's something called commerical evolution, starting with the kickstarted franchise in cartoon and film. As I've said many times, the embargo isn't anything new to TV and is a natural part of the process. Blame the television industry rather than any single man. :) Not worth pointing fingers really. Just be happy that we have this small respectful inclusion in the comics.

Who knows, maybe it will one day blossom into something bigger.

[Starba]

And again, it isn't the embargo killing of DCAU, it's something called commerical evolution, starting with the kickstarted franchise in cartoon and film. As I've said many times, the embargo isn't anything new to TV and is a natural part of the process. Blame the television industry rather than any single man.

I really envy the Japanese comics to animation system sometimes. Sure, if JL would have been made by their system it probably wouldn't have been anything like it is here (anime's never really a collaborative effort writing scripts, character designs, etc. because the anime's basically taken straight from the comics) but at least the creators get to write stories without worrying about whether or not they'd be picked up every season/catering to the toy industry. Yes, it has a whole host of other commercially-driven problems, but it'd be nice to have cartoons over here that were faithful to the writers/creators for once. I'm not saying we should just animate every comic that came out as is (I'm a bigger fan of the DCAU than the comics most of the time), but it'd be nice to see a little creative room to breathe.

[batmanbeyond13]

This story line has been great. I was only disappointed with Batman Beyond being Tim. But the rest was great. Maybe, Jeph Loeb meant to say Terry, but said Tim. Both start with the letter T. I love that Bat Plane.

[jv2k]

I really envy the Japanese comics to animation system sometimes. Sure, if JL would have been made by their system it probably wouldn't have been anything like it is here (anime's never really a collaborative effort writing scripts, character designs, etc. because the anime's basically taken straight from the comics) but at least the creators get to write stories without worrying about whether or not they'd be picked up every season/catering to the toy industry. Yes, it has a whole host of other commercially-driven problems, but it'd be nice to have cartoons over here that were faithful to the writers/creators for once. I'm not saying we should just animate every comic that came out as is (I'm a bigger fan of the DCAU than the comics most of the time), but it'd be nice to see a little creative room to breathe.Yea but if the DCAU was like anime it would use the same style as the comics be poorly animated due to lack of seasons and full of crapy filler episodes. Then there are the problems with the comics themselves nowa days aren't too good anyway. So I say no thanks I'll stick to the original toons, if I want the comics story I'll buy the comics myself.

[Terminatah]

Well, disappointment ensues in issue #23.

One of the lines over the comm link to Beyond Batman calls him... Tim.

Damn. I wanted Terry.
This story line has been great. I was only disappointed with Batman Beyond being Tim. But the rest was great. Maybe, Jeph Loeb meant to say Terry, but said Tim. Both start with the letter T. I love that Bat Plane.I believe Jeph Loeb said that the "Tim" was MEANT to be "Terry" and that they will fix this before the issue goes to trade paperback.

-Terminatah

[John Cage]

I believe Jeph Loeb said that the "Tim" was MEANT to be "Terry" and that they will fix this before the issue goes to trade paperback.

That'd be nice -- where'd you read that?

By the way, I didn't even notice the BTAS Batplane in S/B #22. That's another nice surprise.

Have a good day.
John Cage

[batmanbeyond13]

Looks like I got one right by saying that Tim was meant to be really Terry, huh? I don't think Jeph Loeb would do that to D C A U fans. For him to put Batman Beyond in this book, must mean he is a fan. To Terminatah, where did you hear about a correction to be made? :)

[Ruff86]

SUPERMAN/BATMAN #24

http://dccomics.com/media/covers/4338_180x270.jpg

Written by Jeph Loeb
Art and cover by Ed McGuinness & Dexter Vines

As superstars Jeph Loeb, Ed McGuinness & Dexter Vines rocket "With a Vengeance" toward its conclusion, the fate of the universe hangs in the balance unless the World's Finest Team — The Dark Damsel Detective and The Woman of Steel, that is — can stop it! There's nothing more incredible than the debut of Batwoman and Superwoman! Guest-starring Superlad!

Thoughts? What are your comments?

[Invidente 7]

Unless there is a logic explanation for this, this cover would make an awesome addition to www.superdickery.com (http://www.superdickery.com) otherwise WTF?! wouldn't be enough to comprehend this :eek: :confused:

[Ruff86]

Umm,

...what?!

[DR.MID-NITE]

My biggest problem with this title. Is that its been around 3 months since the last issue. And this is a storyline that if you don't remember what happened before it just makes it more confusing. Just too much time in between issues.

[batmanbeyond13]

This book continues to amaze me. Even if it's late, I'm enjoying it. Issue 24 had a great Superman/ Darkseid moment worthy of a D C A U style. Ed Mc Guinness continues to draw the characters in the animated style with realistic feel. Good stuff. #1 on my list. Jeph Loeb has alot to do with it, too.

[Clayface]

SUPERMAN/BATMAN #25

http://images.comicbookresources.com/solicits/dc112005/batman_superman/sm/SupermanBatmanCv25.jpg (http://images.comicbookresources.com/solicits/dc112005/batman_superman/big/SupermanBatmanCv25.jpg)

Written by Jeph Loeb
Art and cover by Ed McGuinness & Dexter Vines

As superstars Jeph Loeb, Ed McGuinness & Dexter Vines bring "With a Vengeance" to its conclusion, the fate of the universe hangs in the balance unless Superman and Batman can find a way to defeat their nefarious foes!

Comments?

[randomguy]

The Loeb run comes to an end, thank God, as Supermen and Batmen fight the Joker and Darkseid stands around and you know what? None of this arc has made any goshdarned sense and I have no idea what I've been reading for the last eight months or so. Completely incomprehensible garbage with no redeeming qualities. Sticking with this book for completion's sake was among the stupidest things I've ever done and I won't be making the same mistake in the future. Grade: F

[rggkjg1]

Superman/Batman #25: The Loeb run comes to an end, thank God, as Supermen and Batmen fight the Joker and Darkseid stands around and you know what? None of this arc has made any goshdarned sense and I have no idea what I've been reading for the last eight months or so. Completely incomprehensible garbage with no redeeming qualities. Sticking with this book for completion's sake was among the stupidest things I've ever done and I won't be making the same mistake in the future. Grade: F
i felt the same way. i completely lost all concentration in reading this issue when i was about halfway through. after that i thumbed through the rest and glanced at the last page. the last page looked like a nice wrap up for loeb's run, but i don't think there was any wrap up for the arc.

[matta2fatta]

so i bought the latest tpb of batman/superman only because i was told that part where batman calls batman beyond, tim was a mistake. and that they would change it to terry..... and they didnt, what happend?

[Terminatah]

so i bought the latest tpb of batman/superman only because i was told that part where batman calls batman beyond, tim was a mistake. and that they would change it to terry..... and they didnt, what happend?They didn't change it? Man, I remember when this originally came up on the boards, I was the one who said they would change it (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=151001&page=3). I notice now that a couple people asked me what my source was, and I never responded. To answer now, my source was a community livejournal called Daily Scans (http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/) where people post noteworthy scans of classic and current comic books. Someone there posted a quote by Jeph Loeb.

I went back and found the exact page (http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/1252539.html#cutid1) where I saw the post, made by a jrwells (http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/1252539.html?thread=37349563#t37349563), and I quote:


Jason!

Thanks for the kind words.
Glad you enjoyed.

From the D'OH! department we ALL made the mistake
of calling Terry McGuinness "Tim" eek. We'll fix that in the trades!!!

Tell everyone you know!

Embarassed but happy with the issue, (particluarly the coloring!)

JephSo there you have it. I've been waiting for months to buy this so I could get the softcover. Don't tell me no one's reading these damn things before they go to print.

-Terminatah

[batmanbeyond13]

The hardcover that reprints Superman/Batman #20-#25 was suppose to have a correction when it is mentioned who is the Batman Beyond in the story. It wasn't suppose to be Tim, but it was Terry. It says it is Tim. But we know it's not. Oh, well. Maybe the TPB will correct it. Maybe we'll know for sure when the Ed McGuinness figure comes out. It should say in the back of the packaging.

[matta2fatta]

i was so pissed the only reason i bought the damn book was because of the supposed correction. now i have to spend even more money on the damn tpb

[Bruce Wayne Jr.]

Where did you hear there would be a correction?

I think it was simply an error on Loeb's part, probably because he's not all that familiar with the show. I would say don't hold your breath on seeing it fixed.