South Park "With Apologies To Jesse Jackson" Talkback

[Neo Ultra Mike]

http://www.comedycentral.com/press/images/southpark/1101WithApologiesToJesseJackson--1_thumbnail.jpg (http://www.comedycentral.com/press/images/southpark/1101WithApologiesToJesseJackson--1.jpg)http://www.comedycentral.com/press/images/southpark/1101WithApologiesToJesseJackson--2_thumbnail.jpg (http://www.comedycentral.com/press/images/southpark/1101WithApologiesToJesseJackson--2.jpg)

The Start Of South Park Season Eleven Begins Tonight with a Brand New Ep at 10PM Repeating at Midnight (which I'll be catching).

"The "N" word hits South Park, and Cartman fights a midget"

Enjoy!

[Majin_Megabyte]

"Race War!!" xD This is going to be good episode already.

[peacebyanymeans]

"JESSE JACKSON IS NOT THE EMPEROR OF BLACK PEOPLE!"

"... he told my dad he was."

[MorotheWolf]

Now we're getting on the Kramer thing...hmm.

[tb4000]

"They put a little suit on him!"

I swear I fell off the bed laughing at that.

[tb4000]

That is EXACTLY how spoken word sounds, man. XD

[peacebyanymeans]

Omg...

[MorotheWolf]

This guy really needs to give up on Cartman. He's just a lost cause.

[Majin_Megabyte]

Micheal Richards.... Oh man. xD

[MJC]

Eh, ok episode, but it really makes me wonder if white guys are really that mad about not being able to say the N-word. :confused:

[DarthGonzo]

I dunno...I kinda expected all of this stuff. Nothing here really seems shocking or controversial.

[MorotheWolf]

Yeah...this wasn't that bad. Wasn't the best South Park I've ever seen either. Oh well.

[GregX]

And the moral is... Cartman wrestling a midget is high-larious entertainment! :evil:

[tb4000]

Eh, ok episode, but it really makes me wonder if white guys are really that mad about not being able to say the N-word. :confused:

Yeah, surprisingly. It's the principle, basically. Black people can say it, but they can't. It's stupid, but that's what a lot of arguments are.

[Frank Castle]

That instantly became one of my most favorite episodes of all time! Cartman laughing uncontrollably at the midget was great. The Jesse Jackson bit was funny too. Apologize...apologize. lol

[R. Escobar]

This was a pretty good season starter, I don't know what all the hype was about though, it wasn't controversial at all to me. The smart redneck guys were hilarious. LOL @ Kramer, the Cartmen/Midget subplot was entertainin', so overall good ep

[SirLemming]

Good episode. Not controversial enough to shatter the foundations of society as we know it, but I guess you can say it'll never air in syndication.

BTW, in case anyone doesn't know, the last act of this episode is almost definitely a parody of the fact that the N-word has been banned in New York City (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6406625.stm) (although it's not really an official law).


One thing that's funny about this to me is that a few weeks ago, in a 24 talkback, I noted that someone almost made a big slip-up by calling one black character an "annoying nagger".

[Hyper Shadow X]

This one was 0k.

[FinnMacCool]

Eh, it was alright. I would have liked to have seen more of the Cartman vs. the Little Person subplot.

And, frankly, I kinda disagree with the moral revelation Stan came to. I've never stuck my hand into hydrochloric acid, and I've never experienced anything close, but that doesn't mean I can't understand how it would feel. Just because white people can never experience first hand the effects of the N-word doesn't mean they're incapable of understanding those effects.

[The Myst]

Good episode. The ending of the Randy plot didn't seem to have a real resolution. I mean, usually someone would give a big speech that would cause New York to reverse their decision. But they didn't here.

[Ultra8]

Less than 2-minutes in and I was on the floor laughing like a madman.:D :D That the smart Rednecks and Cartman's constant laughter at the assembly were the true highlights of the episode. The rest was so-so but still a good start for the new season.
Only wish the little guy had done more damage to Cartman though.

B+

[btv]

Because of the two picture releases before the episode, since I already expected the southerners to go after Randy, that moment wasn't as funny. The only part that really got me rolling was the midget challenging Cartman and making fun of him with all the kids.

Randy's parts were ok, but since this issue has already been lambasted to death.. since about a few months ago.. it really didn't have the same oomph as if an episode about the same thing coming out the wednesday right after the issue spawned. And I guess that's the biggest flaw with this show. If it's not out at the right time to spread it's wings, it doesn't get as much reaction out on me.

And.. I apologize for even bringing this up, Matt and Trey, but when Family Guy (gulp) did this joke, they took a 10 second clip and didn't even say the "en-wurd", and the effect was actually a bit more lasting on me then what this episode had. And I really hate comparing shows like that, but when both are dealing with a certain issue, it's kinda hard not to.

It's not that this episode was bad -- in fact, it was really entertaining and had some lasting jokes to it that will make it good to watch as a rerun. However, relevence and the show always following the same formula time and time again (issue comes up, people react, character(s) meet an organization of people aimed to stop it/make it bigger, ends on a moral) kinda makes the episode feel old hat.

I guess that's just me though, and I will be tuning into the rest of the season as always. I just wanted to give my two cents. Feel free to debate any of this with me, I'm open for conversation.

B

[SirLemming]

What you said is true, but I just want to point out that the "banning" of the N-word happened a week ago, so that part is relevant.

[btv]

What you said is true, but I just want to point out that the "banning" of the N-word happened a week ago, so that part is relevant.

That completely slipped my mind. Sorry, Lemming. :( :( :( :(

[Lutochris]

This might not feel all that shocking or controversial, since we're so used to it now with Boondocks and Chappelle's Show, but I think this is the first time a show has really used that word so openly and freely that isn't a "black" show. So in a way, it's kind of analogous to a white guy saying the n-word in public.

[Nightwing]

I dunno...I kinda expected all of this stuff. Nothing here really seems shocking or controversial.

That's really weird to me because I walked away from this episode thinking it was one of the most offensive ones I had ever seen! It was terribly cruel! Of course, being a young man with a not-so-clean sense of humor I loved it.

I also agree how loved the smart rednecks were. I love them. And this isn't the first time we've seen ones like that. The Future Immigrant episode had a few. The leader had this hilarious dialogue yelling at another redneck about global warming. Gorgeous.


And, frankly, I kinda disagree with the moral revelation Stan came to. I've never stuck my hand into hydrochloric acid, and I've never experienced anything close, but that doesn't mean I can't understand how it would feel. Just because white people can never experience first hand the effects of the N-word doesn't mean they're incapable of understanding those effects.

I understand what you're saying, but I respectfully disagree. Whether they meant it or not, I believe the topic here is about a black person, moreso than it is about black people. We each have different ways of thinking, and I believe what Stan is trying to convey is that a person needs to feel and think what they do without attempted pressure of what someone ELSE thinks trying to be invasive with their thoughts and opinions. Kinda like you're trying to do a crossword puzzle but I keep tapping you on the shoulder from behind.

I'll use your post as another example, FinMac. And I've also practiced this as a message board mod. If I disagree with your opinion, the first and absolute best thing I could do is that as a fact, and accept it as truth. From there it's win/win for everyone, because I won't have any kind of bias or mental block preventing me from progressing forward.


Good episode. The ending of the Randy plot didn't seem to have a real resolution. I mean, usually someone would give a big speech that would cause New York to reverse their decision. But they didn't here.

Yeah I would have liked that too. I mean come on, that's what South Park does, right?

[tb4000]

I think, whether some like to own up or not, they think of us black people as one monolithic group at times, taht all think alike and agree on everything. As Token said last night, Jesse is not the emperor. Some are cool with the word, some aren't. Some use it, some don't. There are gray areas all over the place.

[DarthGonzo]

It's not that this episode was bad -- in fact, it was really entertaining and had some lasting jokes to it that will make it good to watch as a rerun. However, relevence and the show always following the same formula time and time again (issue comes up, people react, character(s) meet an organization of people aimed to stop it/make it bigger, ends on a moral) kinda makes the episode feel old hat.


And THAT'S the problem with South Park nowadays. No matter the "controversial" topic, every episode works out the exact same way. This episode really didn't do much for me primarily because the overall scenario has been done before, and the constant overuse of Randy in plots of this nature is getting very tiring.

Cartman and the midget should have been the whole show, IMHO.

[SirLemming]

I wasn't thrilled with that aspect of the message either, but I can understand it after thinking about it a little more. I think Token was being kind of a jerk to keep rejecting Stan's apologies, but Stan shouldn't have kept trying to become all things to all people, claiming to know how Token felt. A lot of problems today come from people thinking they know what other people are supposed to believe or feel; one one side of this coin you have this "I know how you feel" stuff, and on the other side you have the "you ________s are all supposed to believe ________, so you're a hypocrite."

Randy's plot seems like it doesn't have a resolution, but I think maybe the point of it is to attempt to show a white guy "knowing how it feels", and to contrast that with what Stan eventually figured out.

[The Myst]

And THAT'S the problem with South Park nowadays. No matter the "controversial" topic, every episode works out the exact same way. This episode really didn't do much for me primarily because the overall scenario has been done before, and the constant overuse of Randy in plots of this nature is getting very tiring.

I think as they get older, Trey and Matt seem to like Randy's character more and more. Almost as if they relate to him more now.

[90'sCartoonMan]

I thought it was a pretty funny episode. Michael Richards didn't really do anything specifically, but using him and the guy from the OJ trial together kind of made the point.

Is it just me or did they make Skeeter look much more redneck than he usually does? It was funny that they were after Randy for a completely different reason.

I liked Cartman and the midget. Poor guy never stood a chance.


I wasn't thrilled with that aspect of the message either, but I can understand it after thinking about it a little more. I think Token was being kind of a jerk to keep rejecting Stan's apologies, but Stan shouldn't have kept trying to become all things to all people, claiming to know how Token felt. A lot of problems today come from people thinking they know what other people are supposed to believe or feel; one one side of this coin you have this "I know how you feel" stuff, and on the other side you have the "you ________s are all supposed to believe ________, so you're a hypocrite."

Right, like Stan thinking that he could apply the midget's lesson. That was just sort of glossing over the real issue by comparing them, which is why Token was so frustrated at him.

[Anarky]

hilarious
i wonder if the little guy was inspired by those twins who appear in infomercials

[Neo Ultra Mike]

I also agree how loved the smart rednecks were. I love them. And this isn't the first time we've seen ones like that. The Future Immigrant episode had a few. The leader had this hilarious dialogue yelling at another redneck about global warming. Gorgeous.

I also noticed how they used the "we don't want any trouble" running gag from "Sexual Harrasement" a bit here with Skeeter a co. Kind of cool to see that joke come back even in a tiny form.


I liked Cartman and the midget. Poor guy never stood a chance.

Maybe not insult wise but I kind of expected him to beat the crap out of Cartman since on many occasions Cartman has shonw not to be too good a fighter. Glad they did something different with it though. Heh the music and the entire vibe of the fight screamed out Youtube quality which I guess makes sense since Cartman refrenced Youtube early in the ep.

Overally very high quality. From the Cartman and Randy plot (though I have to agree Randy is being overused on some occasions but people still love him. Or uh one of my SP loving friends still loves him). I would of prefered they kept this one more under wraps or try to start out with something more conterversial but maybe that was the point of things blowing up after a little incident and it ending like this. Anyrate good ep.

[FidoMcCokefiend]

I like when he says the 2 words are 'harmless on their own'

[FinnMacCool]

You know, I think I might have just realized why they were trying to keep the plot of this episode secret (before someone at Comedy Central finally caved in). While they did say it was because of the controversy the episode might cause, I actually think it might have something to do with the Wheel of Fortune segment. Knowing that the episode was going to be about the "N-Bomb" my mind automatically went to the N-word when I saw the Wheel of Fortune puzzle for "Things That Annoy You" spell N_GGERS. I think it actually would have been any interesting test if people had watched that episode without knowing what it would be about; would "Naggers" have occurred to us, or would "N***ers" still have been at the forefront of our mind?

[Cobblepot1982]

Eh, it was alright. I would have liked to have seen more of the Cartman vs. the Little Person subplot.

And, frankly, I kinda disagree with the moral revelation Stan came to. I've never stuck my hand into hydrochloric acid, and I've never experienced anything close, but that doesn't mean I can't understand how it would feel. Just because white people can never experience first hand the effects of the N-word doesn't mean they're incapable of understanding those effects.


Well, the funny thing is, no one can force you to feel what you don't want to, when it comes to this kind of stuff. I'm a half-Jewish white guy, and you can use every single slur in the book, and I'll just laugh my rear off- partly because I don't care, and I think taboo stuff is flat-out hilarious, and partly because it just makes those who pull stuff like that look even more idiotic.

Take, for instance, that scene in Forrest Gump when those guys are throwing rocks at Forrest cause of his leg braces. Those SAME rejects are doing it when they're in high school. My question "ok, who's the REAL idiot- Forrest Gump, or the guys who he 'wiped the floor with' back a mere 10 years ago in the same situation?"

Regardless, I thought this was an ok episode. I LOVED the line about Jesse Jackson calling himself the Emperor of blacks. And I gotta say it- I LOVED seeing Cartman rip into that little *snicker* guy. Personally, I think he sorta had it coming.

And don't forget- Kyle can rip Cartman a new one...yet that little guy couldn't. Kinda sad, really. :D

[Zerodeaths]

It's just what I expected from South Park, I wonder how they'll top this.

[Cobblepot1982]

It's just what I expected from South Park, I wonder how they'll top this.


What kinda question is that? They ALWAYS do- they're comic geniuses, Trey & Matt. :)

[Nightwing]

You know, I think I might have just realized why they were trying to keep the plot of this episode secret (before someone at Comedy Central finally caved in). While they did say it was because of the controversy the episode might cause, I actually think it might have something to do with the Wheel of Fortune segment. Knowing that the episode was going to be about the "N-Bomb" my mind automatically went to the N-word when I saw the Wheel of Fortune puzzle for "Things That Annoy You" spell N_GGERS. I think it actually would have been any interesting test if people had watched that episode without knowing what it would be about; would "Naggers" have occurred to us, or would "N***ers" still have been at the forefront of our mind?

I thought of the same thing, too. There are just so many variables to it that make it hard to find a concrete answer to the question.

Was the N word the first answer I thought of? Yes it was, but the reason was because I figured the Wheel of Fortune people knew who Randy was and where he was from and perhaps "figured" (in a shallow way) that it would apply to him.



Personally, I think he sorta had it coming.


I thought the exact opposite. Cartman is the one who had it coming, and the midget was the one who didn't realize just how much of a bastard Cartman is. We knew right away, so we knew the guy's self-help and Tony Robbins teachings weren't going to have any kind of effect on Cartman.

He got mad and took the impulsive route. Each one of us has done the same in past situations, and still will do the same on occasion in the future. We're only human.




And don't forget- Kyle can rip Cartman a new one...yet that little guy couldn't. Kinda sad, really. :D

That's because Kyle rules. I love that kid.

Plus, in a confrontation the outcome is decided by the why, not necessarily the how. Kyle can beat the ever loving life out of Cartman over the years and we've cheered him for it, because he's done so in response to Cartman saying something ABSURDLEY ignorant about hating Jews.

THE BOYS ARE SHOVELING A WOMAN'S DRIVEWAY.

[knock knock knock]

-Excuse me ma'am, could we please have some gauges and bandages?

-Oh my goodness, what happened??

[Cartman with a bloody nose] -Snow shoveling accident.

:D

[Lutochris]

Actually Kyle and Cartman were pretty evenly matched in Cartoon Wars II. Before that we've never really seen them fight, just Kyle hits him once and Cartman gives up.

[FinnMacCool]

I thought the exact opposite. Cartman is the one who had it coming, and the midget was the one who didn't realize just how much of a bastard Cartman is. We knew right away, so we knew the guy's self-help and Tony Robbins teachings weren't going to have any kind of effect on Cartman.

He got mad and took the impulsive route. Each one of us has done the same in past situations, and still will do the same on occasion in the future. We're only human.

Speaking as someone whose high school years are not long behind him, I too thought the little person had it coming on behalf of all the school assembly speakers who annoyed the hell out of me in grades K-12. Seeing one get his ass handed to him was just so sweet.

[90'sCartoonMan]

Maybe not insult wise but I kind of expected him to beat the crap out of Cartman since on many occasions Cartman has shonw not to be too good a fighter.

I thought that was a possibility. The only proficiency at fighting Cartman has shown is sumo wrestling, otherwise he's been beaten up by guys like Kyle and Token. Then again, they did show the little guy having difficulty moving. He did sort of look like those twins in the commercials.

[Master Moron]

You know, I think I might have just realized why they were trying to keep the plot of this episode secret (before someone at Comedy Central finally caved in). While they did say it was because of the controversy the episode might cause, I actually think it might have something to do with the Wheel of Fortune segment. Knowing that the episode was going to be about the "N-Bomb" my mind automatically went to the N-word when I saw the Wheel of Fortune puzzle for "Things That Annoy You" spell N_GGERS. I think it actually would have been any interesting test if people had watched that episode without knowing what it would be about; would "Naggers" have occurred to us, or would "N***ers" still have been at the forefront of our mind?

Of course "Naggers" wouldn't have occured to us. I mean, is that even a real word? Usually a person who nags is just called a nag. I've never heard anyone use the word "Naggers" before.

[The Myst]

According to Google, naggers is not a word.

[Desensitized]

It was a reach.

But still, everyone in the audience thought what Randy thought, too.

That was a good episode overall, though.

[GregX]

To all you people trying to explain or figure out why Cartman didn't get his ass kicked this time, when Kyle and Token easily kicked his ass in the past:

It's South Park! Continuity only matters when it needs to. This is the show that used to have Kenny die every week. This is the show that all of a sudden had Saddam Hussein alive and back on Earth when it came time to make fun of the Iraq War.

If this were Gargoyles, or Batman TAS, or a show like that, it would be fine to nitpick it. But, this is South Park. Continuity barely matters.

[GuardianKid13]

I actually thought it was "naggers" because before the episode aired I read a Myspace topic and it had the word nagger...so yeah.

Great episode.

7/10

[Alph]

According to Google, naggers is not a word.

According to the dictionary, it is a word.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nagger

[Nightwing]

Yeah it's better to actually look something up instead of just googling it for five minutes. Google is helpfull, but it's not Master Yoda.


Actually Kyle and Cartman were pretty evenly matched in Cartoon Wars II. Before that we've never really seen them fight, just Kyle hits him once and Cartman gives up.

Kyle and Cartman were evenly matched during the Cartoon Wars because it was hilarious. Kyle beats the living daylights out of Cartman in the examples I bring up because it is hilarious. That's the common link. He gets pounded by Kyle because he's supposed to, to show the narrow minded stuff Cartman says has to be shown it's wrong. Cartman "gives up" because he accepts Kyle's retaliation that he won't stand for that crap. :)


Speaking as someone whose high school years are not long behind him, I too thought the little person had it coming on behalf of all the school assembly speakers who annoyed the hell out of me in grades K-12. Seeing one get his ass handed to him was just so sweet.

My high school years aren't that far behind me either. I remember kids don't like the motivational speakers, but even then I always disagreed with the mob mentality.

We don't like the sole speaker because we feel like he found all his answers and he's a stronger person than we were capable of being up to that point. It makes us look and feel weaker, and we don't like that, because it means we could have done more. But he's at least worth a chance to listen to. He just comes off as smug.

[SirLemming]

I don't want to start a new thread about it or anything, but there's already a clip of the next episode (entitled "Cartman Sucks") at southparkstudios.com. It's about 6 seconds long. Kyle is practicing basketball and Cartman runs up to him and starts yelling at him. "Where is it, you filthy Jew?" "Where is what?" "You know g**damn well what!" "Let me go." Someone theorized that this could be the 24 parody, with Cartman acting like Jack Bauer.

[Fan of Sponge]

Wednesday's episode wasn't really strong at all. The whole incident happened after the season finale in that November week. There were at times where it was funny like the part Randy talks with Jesse Jackson and Mr. Nelson confronting Cartman. Everything else was not good. Hopefully next week's episode will be better with the 24 spoof.

[The Myst]

Yeah it's better to actually look something up instead of just googling it for five minutes. Google is helpfull, but it's not Master Yoda.

Five minutes? Try 10 seconds. I literally just typed it in, searched for it, and looked to see if there was a link to the definition next to the word. >_>

[Lutochris]

I don't want to start a new thread about it or anything, but there's already a clip of the next episode (entitled "Cartman Sucks") at southparkstudios.com. It's about 6 seconds long. Kyle is practicing basketball and Cartman runs up to him and starts yelling at him. "Where is it, you filthy Jew?" "Where is what?" "You know g**damn well what!" "Let me go." Someone theorized that this could be the 24 parody, with Cartman acting like Jack Bauer.

I don't know if it's the 24 parody or not, but I'm pretty sure I know what it's about. Read the article in the newest Rolling Stone, particularly towards the end.

[SirLemming]

Well, now it's probably not a 24 parody because it says on SPS that it's about Butters going to "pray-the-gay-away" camp. But I suppose it could be both.