Is Toonami right, is DBZ the greatest action cartoon ever made?

[I.R Joey]

The show's concept "is" fighting. About 95% of the thing is about, or about people talking about fighting. Sometimes its very thin on plot, but again I think many of us can point to how cool the fights actually look. So in a sense it is a true "action" cartoon since it really doesn't take that much time to investigate the charecters relationships and stuff. Oh well just a thought.

*Runs away like the grounds on fire*

[RockItShipper]

That's part of why I've gotten more episodes of Dragonball, Z's predecessor. Although gross-out humor isn't for everyone. Certainly CN's version is going to be editted.

[Bud 'n Lou]

I couldn't disagree more. I think it's the most POORLY done action show ever. Everything about it: characters, plot, and yes, even the fight scenes. I'm sorry, but I don't consider a few frames of fast punches/kicks/blocks looped over and over again with groaning noises slapped in there that could've been recorded by a hidden microphone in a public bathroom to be a good fight scene.

[mxyzptlk]

dont ya love who ha and other odd noices, hey is it just me or do they always have the same plot someone wants to destroy the earth and is just or do the not seem to not speed up at all i recall in the begnning with raditz that they seemed just as fast as when he fought cell the entire thing is disaparing and reappearing and dodging fists for a few seconds and how come ghokus spearit bomb on namic was the same size as freezas blast to namic to blow it up cuz he could not beat goku but why did gokus not blow up the planit all it did was create a couple new water falls dbz is repetitive and predictable all in all the show sucks gi joe is alot better action

[I.R Joey]

I'll try my best to answer your inquires Myx.

Well maybe its diffrent in the version in Japan, but I don't think the Genki dama (or spirit bomb) will harm anything that in innocent (in this case the planet)

As for your question about Cell I do think that they move faster, it's just that as the series goes on we expect to see them move faster. Thus our frame of reffrence is moved up a bit.

But even I admit that the show is repetitive and predictable, still fun though

[mxyzptlk]

gratest action cartoon is a little much you could call it the most alright action toon

[DerekPowers]

i'd say one of the best action cartoons ever made, thats more acurate. and even though it is repetative as hell and so drawn out, it still is a really great show and lots of fun with lots of cool characters. And i've only seen the english version, and i still like it. i could only imagine how much better the japanese version is. who knows, if i had seen it in its original form from the start, maybe i would consider it the greatest. hmmmmm. peace.

[nightwing_38116]

You have to keep in mind that the eps we're seeing on CN now are around 10 years old. Also, as far as Dragonball, the first 13 eps that Funimation did are going to remain as is. The next 15 will be uncut and have the original Japanese score. They have no plans to do the other 125 episodes of Dragonball.

[killercroc]

Some of the lines are stupid, Chichi is annoying and the plot is recycled over and over. OK, we all know that, but we keep watching it. That's because there are some things about it that are pretty darn good.

1. People die- Yeah, they come back a lot of times, also, but at least they have the guts to admit it happens. Who else thought it was weird that hundreds of thousands of rounds were fired in the GI Joe series but no one ever died?

2. Adult situations- Best of my knowledge Bulma and Vegeta got together just to get busy. Doesn't seem to be a permanent relationship.

3. The ongoing storyline- It keeps me coming back!

4. They blow stuff up REAL GOOD!- You knew this one was coming.

[mxyzptlk]

1i never noticed that in gi joe, oh sweet dragon brings people bck to life woo that is realistic
2blow up stuff reall good thats only cause they charge up for 5 episodes

[Crazy8s]

The most repetitive and unoriginal series I've ever tried to watch. Basically, the same type of battle facing the same type of all-powerful villains every time. Characters 'die', run around in 'heaven' training for awhile (against monkeys, crickets and the like--some heaven), and come back to fight some more. Female characters are vacant at their core (and I'm not at all charmed by characters getting together simply to 'get busy'--I like romance, not hormonal surges), villains are wooden and prissy and the stories (and fight scenes) are sloooow (a single fight scene seems to stretch out over ten episodes or more) and predictable. I quit watching it back when it was on local TV.

Great action/adventure? Reboot!, Starship Troopers, Beast Wars, the Batman and Superman franchises. Heck, GodzillaTS even beats the tail feathers out of DBZ.

[Bud 'n Lou]

Right on, sister!

[killercroc]

Originally posted by mxyzptlk
1i never noticed that in gi joe, oh sweet dragon brings people bck to life woo that is realistic

Smart aleck! learn some punctuation...


One more thing, personally, Bulma is a lot less annoying than Max.



(and I'm not at all charmed by characters getting together simply to 'get busy'--I like romance, not hormonal surges),
Yeah, but I can't think of any other cartoon that dealt with the whole sex thing. And I'm surprised you're not impressed that it empowers single mothers.:) Bulma is doing a fine job of raising Trunks alone. Vegeta contributed only what did you call it...a squirt of DNA. Of course in this case it was Saiyan DNA.

I know your still gonna be unimpressed Crazy8. The thing is that boys and girls are different and this toon was definitely made for boys.

[Nightwing]

I do agree it's not the greatest action cartoon ever made, but I do think there's more to it than that.

I don't think enough people give DBZ the tiny bit of credit it deserves because Funimation does a disgusting job and editing and dubbing it. And I also don't think people consider it at all because it's from another culture. It's a lot different than how we think and move and anything else you could think of.

Of course my one exception to this argument is this:


Originally posted by Bud 'n Lou
....a few frames of fast punches/kicks/blocks looped over and over again with groaning noises slapped in there

I call those scenes "twich scenes". And although I don't care for them, they don't make up the entire show. One just has to look past the twich scenes, horribly translate dialogue, and slow moving storyline. A lot of it has some very fluid animation, and I personally was drawn to the show because of Goku's, Gohan's, Piccolo's and Krillin's characters. And I don't even like Anime.

[Nightwing]

Originally posted by killercroc
The thing is that boys and girls are different and this toon was definitely made for boys.

I think that in itself is incredibly incitefull to DBZ's argument. Not that it makes it any better of course -heck I don't care much for Japan's culture's ability to talk of things like what Vegeta and Bulma did, all without emotion myself- but it does show why we watch. ;)

[Bud 'n Lou]

One just has to look past the twich scenes, horribly translate dialogue, and slow moving storyline

Then what's left??

[Jedi_MraiTrunks]

It's quite a stupid tag line just for Keller making adolescent teens like us to watch it. We are not all that thick headed, you know.

To me though:
greatest American action cartoon: Past - G.I. Joe; Current - Justice League
greaest Japanese action cartoon: Past - MSG; Current - Cowboy Bebop

[KingKoopa]

Originally posted by Jedi_MraiTrunks
It's quite a stupid tag line just for Keller making adolescent teens like us to watch it. We are not all that thick headed, you know.

To me though:
greatest American action cartoon: Past - G.I. Joe; Current - Justice League
greaest Japanese action cartoon: Past - MSG; Current - Cowboy Bebop Please stop bumping topics up. We don't need to see them again.

[Mackenzie Rainelle]

In terms of series quality, I think just about anything by Rumiko Takahashi (except Urusei Yatsura and Maison Ikkou) has DBZ beat. The battles (especially in Inuyasha) are more graphic, the comedy is better written, there's actually depth to relationships, the comic reliefs are actually interesting, and when people die, they're DEAD. (except Kikyou, but she's not so much resurrected as she's a spirit. And before anyone brings up the Shinchinintai, remember, they were zombies. They weren't just magically restored by a wish) And I think Naraku from Inuyasha is considerably more evil than any DBZ villain. He's pretty much screwed over every last character in the series, and we aren't even sure what his main objective is yet. With DBZ, it was always the "rule/destroy" the universe thing. Sure, Takahashi series may get repetitive, but they're still a lot more interesting to me than anything in DBZ.

[Retan]

Look DBZ Is just popular O.K it shouldn't make you that jealous that your series can't stack up against it, it's just perfect at what it does and that's capture people's imaginations. I know some of non DBZ fans are mad that the things you think should make a series popular aren't really included in DBZ but well get over it!!

[Zerokun]

You know something? DBZ really is the greatest anime of all time...

...and if you believe that, I've got a bridge to sell you.

I mean, honestly... long, drawn-out fights, idiotic power levels, the absolute worst, most infuriating Mary Sue character in the form of Vegeta(-spits-), and THIS is supposed to be the Alpha and Omega of all animation?

Armada and He-Man can't come soon enough for me, I tells ya. -_-

[Albright]

No, not the greatest; merely the most overblown and overrated.

[Mackenzie Rainelle]

Originally posted by Retan
Look DBZ Is just popular O.K it shouldn't make you that jealous that your series can't stack up against it, it's just perfect at what it does and that's capture people's imaginations. I know some of non DBZ fans are mad that the things you think should make a series popular aren't really included in DBZ but well get over it!!

::RAZZ:: Nuts to you. I'm perfectly happy that some of the series I like haven't gained mainstream popularity in the US, 'cause that makes me special for liking them. :D I just think the actual content of DBZ is pure crap, and I can't wait until Inuyasha hits ASA.

[Zero Angel]

Originally posted by Retan
Look DBZ Is just popular O.K it shouldn't make you that jealous that your series can't stack up against it, it's just perfect at what it does and that's capture people's imaginations. I know some of non DBZ fans are mad that the things you think should make a series popular aren't really included in DBZ but well get over it!!

what an incredibly base and shallow statement to make. you want to know what i like, i like shows that can stand on there own and not need a huge overhyped "best action cartoon" ever slogan and still be both better, garner more respect, and be every bit as popular as the series that you say we are all jealous of. ever hear of Rurioni Kenshin? this is a much much better series then DBZ by far. and you want to know something...it is incredibly popular, every bit as popular as DBZ without being on tv. same thing goes for NGE, Trigun, and Ranma 1/2.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

No. I believe the greatest action anime I've ever seen is "Giant Robo." If you want pure action, and creatively done action in copious amounts, Giant Robo is the ticket, simply because it's a combination of VERY good animation, an exhilarating storyline, and pulse-pounding music that never lets up. Giant Robo. The greatest team superhero show I've ever seen, and the best action anime I've ever seen. My opinion, of course.

[batboy2001]

By "greatest action", do you mean the MOST (pointless) action, or best (fluid) action? I say DBZ wins (or at least is up there) for doses and doses of crazed fighting. Though, I much more preffer kenshin swordfights. :D

[DarkMaster]

Tom1 was krillin. ;)

[cyfar]

Is DBZ THE greastest...no....I think's it's one of the greatest. I think that it suffers from some of the things that was the norm in Anime in the late 80s and early 90's (repeating storylines, plot holes, blach blach bad animation?) As far as the twitch animation in the battles, in some episodes it was used in a cheezy way but for the mostpart if you freeze framed some of those are pretty well animated...just moving way too fast to see all of it. But someone will take that statement and do with it what they will. My opinion, I think it's one of the best, up there with Evangelion ( the incredible mind screw), Outlaw Star ( doesn't recieve enough credit for it's animation), Bebop (no comment needed), and Macross(robotech).

oh and
The next 15 will be uncut and have the original Japanese score. They have no plans to do the other 125 episodes of Dragonball.

WTF are you talking about. :confused:

and to those that just can't stand Dragonball...write a better story, do the artwork or whatever and come up with something better. Can't wait to see what ya come up with :rolleyes:

Note from William C. Maune: Post edited for language.

[Ajax]

I believe DBZ is the greatest anime ever shown (I might as well put anime cause thats all you people seem to talk about.). There has been tons of animes that were better made than DBZ. But, it seems where ever the DB Franchise goes at one point or another it becomes a mega hit. There is no doubt about it. DBZ ranks as one of the mega animes out there along with EVA, CB, and what have you.


same thing goes for NGE, Trigun and Ranma 1/2

Zero Angel, you said that these certain animes do not need TV to be popular. Well, I would love to see all three of these dubbed, edited, and shown on TV. Well soon see how unpopular they become. DBZ, although it was chopped to bit by editing still managed to become popular. Couldn't say the same for Escaflowne. Because of its butchered dub, it got low ass rating. The same goes for most dubs shown on TV.

Even with all the problems that have been mentioned, and how stupied and boring the plot is, people just don't seem to care, cause it is still popular as hell.

[Mackenzie Rainelle]

Originally posted by Comic Book Guy
Even with all the problems that have been mentioned, and how stupied and boring the plot is, people just don't seem to care, cause it is still popular as hell.

And have you noticed that aside from a small minority of fanatics, almost no fan of that show is over 14? Not to mention the huge rarity of female fans of that show. ::sigh:: We're just not that important. ::glares at network executives::

[Skiptastic]

Hamtaro is closer to the greatest action cartoon of all time than DBZ. Even the Ocean voice actors cant save the show from what it really is...kind of crappy...

But, as with Pokemon (which I do enjoy), DBZ must be given credit for bringing interest to anime, and if it were not for DBZ and Pokemon, I hardly believe that we would have seen Toonami and anime in America as popular as it is. Its like the guy who made the first suspense movie. It may have sucked, but it eventually gave us Hitchcock. SO hes got to be given credit. Same deal here in my eyes.

[purplehairedwonder]

Originally posted by Mackenzie Rainelle
Not to mention the huge rarity of female fans of that show. ::sigh:: We're just not that important. ::glares at network executives::

True, true, very true. We female fans aren't important enough :rolleyes:

But back to the original subject, I don't think DBZ is the best of all time, one of the most popular, yes, but best quality? No. But the lack of changing plots/villians doesn't make it a bad show. It's one of those shows that you can watch after a long day, and not be mentally challenged by what has been going on :D. It's more the kind of show that you just want to enjoy, not critique extensively. Fun for all!! :D ;) :p

[William C. Maune]

[indent]I would have to second the comments of purplehaired wonder. I would hardly say I'm a DBZ fanatic and I am 8 years over the age of 14, but I still watch DBZ on a regular basis for the reason listed above.

[bfmusashi]

I actually believe that when TOM made his comment about DBZ being the "greatest action show ever", he was speaking of it more in terms of popularity. DBZ is one of CN's most popular shows, and you can't argue against that. It's also one of the main shows that contributed to Toonami's extreme popularity. If you think about it, DBZ was one of CN's first anime "hits" to air on Toonami. Sailor Moon and Gundam Wing were also immensely popular, but their episode count isn't nearly as high as that of DBZ. Therefore, DBZ is Toonami's longest running show ever, one of their most popular, and basically considered by most people to be one of the animes that helped bring the medium to America. DBZ has done quite a service to the anime medium in that sense.

As for the show itself, I do not watch it to be educated and intrigued by an intensely complicated plot that makes biblical references and challenges my own moral beliefs. I watch it to be simply entertained. I do not expect DBZ to enrich my life in any way, but I do enjoy the show's action, even if others consider it mindless. Despite the criticism that the show recieves, the characters are actually deeper than most people first realize, and while the plot may be long and carried out, it isn't bad. Perhaps the only reason explaining the intense amount of bashing that DBZ recieves in the anime community is the fact that it's popular, and that a lot of younger kids watch it. Older anime fans tend to find the fascination of younger fans (and the media too, I might add) to DBZ annoying, and it sometimes is. That's no reason to completely insult the show and nitpick it everytime it's mentioned. If you don't like it, don't watch it. And please be courteous to those that DO enjoy DBZ. There's nothing more disrespectful than someone that considers all DBZ fans to be hyperactive pre-teens high on sugar.

Actually, no one in this thread has done anything of the sort, but I just felt like expressing myself. That's my two cents, anyway.

[Fallout Boy]

Well I'm probably a senior citizen compared to most DBZ fans (I was born before disco was popular, that's all I'll say), I still love the show. Even as repetitive and predictable as it is. :D

[Christopher N. Denner]

Doesn't the animation actually have to MOVE to be considered ACTION?

:rolleyes: