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View Full Version : What the -- ? DVHS?



James Harvey
01-30-2002, 12:04 PM
www.variety.com reports:

WASHINGTON (Variety) - Fox, Universal, DreamWorks and Artisan Wednesday will announce the release of the first high-definition movies for the homevideo market -- but they won't be on DVD.

Using an advanced video technology similar to High Definition TV (HDTV), the studios are turning back to a format that appeared to be losing favor with consumers: the VHS videocassette.

The four companies will begin rolling out a slate of high-definition movies on videocassette in June based on the new Digital-VHS (D-VHS) format, developed by hardware maker JVC, which can also record HDTV signals from TV broadcasts.

Among the first pictures will be ``Independence Day,'' ``Die Hard'' and ``X-Men'' from Fox; ``U-571'' from Universal; and the first two ``Terminator'' movies from Artisan.

Broadcasters have been dragging their feet on HDTV. For some of the vertically integrated film studios that have ties to broadcast concerns, this will boost that fledgling market. At the very least, the new D-VHS addresses a niche market that they believe will grow, while offering consumers a new machine that still will play their existing library of videos.

The news is already sparking controversy at other studios. Execs are worried that a new digital homevideo format will confuse consumers just as the DVD market is exploding. That could slow sales of the fastest-selling consumer electronics product ever. D-VHS offers more than twice the picture resolution of DVD.

DVD proponents dismiss any perceived advantages to D-VHS as being short-term and not significant enough to overcome the inherent disadvantages of tape-based formats.

``D-VHS suffers from all the limitations inherited from a tape-based format, such as random access, additional languages, enhanced content, all the things that have made DVD such a popular format for consumers,'' said Marsha King, executive VP of new business development and business affairs at Warner Home Video.

Recording TV programs will be no easier than with any other VCR, said WHV president Warren Lieberfarb. ``(Digital video recorders) such as TiVo (news - web sites) have already leapfrogged tape-based time-shifting, so D-VHS is already obsolete even before it arrives.''

Warner Home Video does not plan to release movies in D-VHS. Neither does Sony's Columbia TriStar Home Entertainment.

``As far as we're concerned, D-VHS is not a commercial product,'' Columbia TriStar president Ben Feingold said. ``The enormous success of DVD leads us to believe, both intuitively and practically, that there's a strong preference for a disc-based product.''

But D-VHS supporters see no conflict between the formats.

``This is really incremental technology, addressing a relatively small niche,'' Artisan Home Entertainment president Steve Beeks said. ``I don't really think it will have any impact on the DVD market.''

Others stress that even D-VHS supporters have no interest in undermining the DVD biz.

``We love DVD,'' said Patricia Wyatt, president of Fox Consumer Products. ``It's the golden goose. This (D-VHS) is directly targeted at the HD household. Those people are the most avid consumers of entertainment, and I think they'll continue buying DVDs as well as D-VHS.''

Although both D-VHS and DVDs store movies digitally, D-VHS can pack far more data onto a standard-size tape than can fit on DVDs. DVDs are capable of better picture quality than standard VHS, but they can't store high-def images.

High-def DVD technology is still five to seven years off, according to studio execs who have been briefed on it. That leaves the field open for D-VHS as the only format capable of recording and playing back high-def content.

D-VHS actually records at a higher bit-rate than the U.S. HDTV standard, producing even higher quality images than HDTV broadcasts.

The new format is the brainchild of JVC, which developed the original, analog VHS format that is being overtaken by DVD. The new format uses the same size cassettes and many of the same mechanical features as the original, and the new players are compatible with older VHS cassettes.

The machines have been available in limited numbers from JVC and Mitsubishi for two years, primarily as a home recording format for HDTV broadcast and satellite signals.

Although JVC has been talking to Hollywood about movies to support the format since its introduction, the studios were reluctant to release anything in high-def until adequate copy protection encryption could be developed, particularly in the wake of widespread hacking of DVDs.

At the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas earlier this month, JVC bowed its D-Theater copy-protection system, which it claims is superior to the Content Scrambling System used on DVDs.

Only D-VHS players equipped with the new D-Theater circuitry will be able to play movies in high-def. Earlier machines, without the system, will play older VHS cassettes but can't decode encrypted high-def cassettes.

The market for high-def movies is likely to be tiny at first. The number of households with HDTV sets in the U.S. stands at about 2 million and is projected to reach 4 million by 2003.

JVC is hoping to sell 100,000 D-VHS players within the first year, according to consumer video division VP Jerry Barbera. JVC has only one model on the market, priced at $1,995, but plans to bow at least one more this year.

Reuters/Variety REUTERS

Tim Drake
01-30-2002, 12:11 PM
Hmmmmm Interesting. I think I'll stick with DVDs for two reasons. I don't see myself having a HDTV for several years and I like the extra available on DVDs.

Joe Wagner
01-30-2002, 12:25 PM
So, in other words the only point of having a D-VHS would be to tape Justice League off of my HDTV (which I don't own) but still buy my movies with better sound and quality, for the most part, on a system I already own (DVD). Ok then.....

-Joe!

JustJack
01-30-2002, 12:44 PM
VH...What? VHS? Never heard of....oh yeah...that. Wow...that stuff is old...huh. Do people still buy those? :p :p :D :D

Killtacular
01-30-2002, 12:49 PM
People haven't learned their lesson since Circuit City's Div-X?

Failure
01-30-2002, 01:06 PM
$2k for a player? Wow. I think DVHS is going to go the way of the beta. "Better" technology doesn't always win out.

Sounds like an interesting product though. Too bad I've never seen an HDTV in my life.

Mr. Obsession
01-30-2002, 01:06 PM
And so in order to even play the new D-VHS I have to get a new D-VCR? Ugh. And of course I'll have to get a HDTV just to get the full benefit. Thanks, but no thanks.

One thing they forgot to mention: over time the sound and picture quality of the D-VHS will fade, like with the standard VHS. DVD's don't have this problem.

At any rate I don't think the market is even ready for another video format. The people who still buy VHS won't see the point of D-VHS and most of the people who buy DVD won't support something that despite its higher picture quality still has all the limitations of VHS. I foresee another Beta.

Naraht
01-30-2002, 01:15 PM
You all say Beta, like it isn't being used... I use BetaCam SP tapes on a daily basis..sure it isn't consumer, but it's still in use.

also, HDTV is comming. Here in Lubbock, we'll be getting our Digital Transmitter in a few months..

Not sure how big an impact DVHS will actually have, but don't just dismiss it offhand...

Mr. Obsession
01-30-2002, 01:20 PM
I missed the $2k price tag the first time around. My response just went from "Ugh" to "hell no".

Well you're in broadcasting narat, I can see D-VHS being used for that. But for the average consumer? Not really.




My grandparents have a Beta. :D

Naraht
01-30-2002, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by Mr. Obsession

Well you're in broadcasting narat, I can see D-VHS being used for that. But for the average consumer? Not really.
My grandparents have a Beta. :D

I doubt it...since there's already DigiCam which is all digital..
For SMALL markets/stations...maybe, 2k is far cheaper than even the BetaCam SP player we have, which are about 10,000 each...=O

Adam Tyner
01-30-2002, 01:55 PM
D-VHS is not intended to be anything other than a niche product for bleeding edge consumers. DVD owners have nothing to worry about.

Zorakfan
01-30-2002, 03:01 PM
*Struggling to put together Letters*
D....VH....D?

D...V...HD?
DVH....D?

DVD? Oh yeah, DVD's are great.


B.....et....a?

Calhoun07
01-30-2002, 05:21 PM
I think this has a chance to be as popular as DAT. Which means only a few hobbyists will buy into it and it will be largely ignored by the general public. But who is going to buy it? People still sticking to VHS are doing so because "DVD is still too expensive." Well I doubt these new DVHS machines and tapes will be cheap.

The Mad Hatter
01-31-2002, 10:54 PM
Wha?! What a bizarre move... okay, consider this. For a few years, the only people who will be buying HDTVs are the early-adopters who are seriously attracted to new technology. Though the storage format is vastly improved, I imagine that the vast majority of people would see the tapes as a step backward, since you don't have easy access to extras, chapter skipping, etc.

Oy. Sounds like the company is desperate to keep wringing cash from a format it created...

Roman Legion
01-31-2002, 11:08 PM
Huh... seems kinda late. I remember reading about DVHS years and years ago. And it's just now being considered by execs? I think the format might have met with success if HDTV had been more widespread back when DVHS was invented; it might have had a chance at catching on, but now it seems a bit late.

Ah well, by the time DVHS actually hits the market, they'll have perfected the newest disk based format...

--Romey

Sir Gatts
01-31-2002, 11:27 PM
No thanks. Digital tape media was rejected in the digital world just because of data loss/corruption issues over a prolonged use. That's why we use CD-R's today. You'll have to wait for something that uses a IDE/Serial harddrive for recording such as a Tivo but something that also includes a built-in DVD-RAM drive.

Jowy Blight
02-01-2002, 01:23 AM
No thanks, I just got my DVD player not too long ago, and I'm doing just fine with that. I really don't see this "D-VHS" being around in a few years.

Evil Dr. Reef
02-01-2002, 12:25 PM
Hmmmm.... $2,000 for a player for a $1,000+ TV that I don't have... OR around $150 for a DVD player that works on any TV with stereo cable inputs (i.e. 90% of what's on the market)?

I'll stick with my DVD player.

Naraht
02-01-2002, 12:50 PM
ok, I think this is more geared towards collectors, people who like recording stuff off of the TV..

For example, if yu wanted to record HDTV Quality JL, you would need this new DVHS...it's not for playing movies you get at blockbuster...

Calhoun07
02-01-2002, 01:13 PM
But recordable DVDs will replace this in no time. DVHS has no chance of making any kind of success in the market. Like I said, this is for elite hobbyists only who like to tinker with the latest electronic toys.

James Harvey
02-01-2002, 01:17 PM
I agree with Cal here. DVHS won't make it 6 months. It's essentially a more expensive VCR. Why buy a more expensive VCR when you can get a DVD player for the same price, ormaybe a little less? SONY and WB refuse to support this - one of smartest moves WB has made. :)

Roman Legion
02-01-2002, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by Calhoun07
But recordable DVDs will replace this in no time. DVHS has no chance of making any kind of success in the market. Like I said, this is for elite hobbyists only who like to tinker with the latest electronic toys. Mmm, not quite. Keep in mind that we're comparing one medium that stores 7 Gigs at most (using both sides) with something that stores 40+ Gigs. Recordable DVD's just aren't enough to capture the amount of data coming through an HDTV signal.

I think the format will have reasonable success as a recording medium for HDTV owners, at least until a better recordable disk format appears.

However, I agree with what's been said respecting DVHS in regard to motion picture distribution. Not a brilliant move on behalf of the film industry. It's just not going to catch on, for the reasons stated.

--Romey

Sir Gatts
02-01-2002, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by Romey
Mmm, not quite. Keep in mind that we're comparing one medium that stores 7 Gigs at most (using both sides) with something that stores 40+ Gigs. Recordable DVD's just aren't enough to capture the amount of data coming through an HDTV signal.
That's why TIVO's use harddrives. ;)

Elven Moon
02-01-2002, 06:15 PM
Vee... hhhch... s? What might that be? Oh, yeah, those little black rectangles! Yeah, I used to watch those all the time until I got my DVD player last June... and I'm not about to fork over $2,000 for this DVHS... thing! No, I love DVD and frankly, I'm stickin' to it!

Roman Legion
02-02-2002, 12:21 AM
Originally posted by Sir Gatts
That's why TIVO's use harddrives. ;)But TIVO's don't have swapable hard drives. You'll have a hard time building a TIVO collection of HDTV recordings... ;-)

--Romey

Narfpinky
02-02-2002, 01:21 AM
TheDVD format is great, what with all the features it supports.

But I have to agree with Romey and naraht.

I just see DVHS as something capable doing what DVD can't readily do: Record as easily as popping in a regular VHS tape *and* having a picture quality as good as DVD.

I know there are set-top DVD recorders out there, which is a more fair comparision in price($1,000 or so) than comparing a $149 DVD player to a $2k DVHS recorder (saw one listed at Circuit City, $1499).

Now, yes, this format can become obsolete, but a major increase in capacity in DVDs will have to come about in order to practically record HDTV. Though the DVD format goes up to 17GB, that's for dual-layered, double sided disks, and it's my understanding no recorder can make dual layered disks.

But time will tell how this all ebbs out, and who knows, maybe DVD's will even be replaced by oversized flash media cards (like the ones in digital cameras)

Narfpinky