Toon Zone Talkback - A Dressing Down For... The Audience

[Destin]

This is the talkback thread for A Dressing Down For... The Audience (http://news.toonzone.net/article.php?ID=14790).

Though I assume this may be true for others I seem to have a similar problem but for the opposite reason. I embrace animation and never condemn something as kiddy, I condemn shows as lacking in maturity and these references usually go to shows like Drawn Together which is for older viewers. In truth its my excitement of up coming animated shows and childlike embrace and enjoyment of the medium that seems to turn people off. Its as if my enjoyment of the medium turns others away. When I try to convince my friends to watch one o my shows they may initially say they enjoy it but turn away quickly claiming they only like certain parts. Yes there is a deep seated fear of being associated as being childish but it seems embracing has about the same results as defending. Ques of "just watch it and see how you like it" falls on deaf ears when if I made this suggestion for any other medium it would be taken seriously. In truth it is the in deep feeling of not the fans (though it certainly holds some blame) it seems but the social group itself's unwillingness to explore a medium that may surprise. In truth my friends use my liking of cartoons to testify I have poor taste in shows when in anime and movies we watch pretty much the same thing and as mentioned before if I suggest a regular show they do not hesitate to try it out. I think one of the biggest blames of that can be set to the inability to take the medium seriously is the very thing that keeps it alive. Marketing toys, cards, cereals, and commercials help portray animation as a cheesy gimmick design to take your money. Most mediums of entertainment do not use this strategy heavily releasing perhaps mugs and tea shirts at most and it becomes something one imeadiatly relates with a cartoon with only timeless classics like Star Wars able to sell toys without losing credibility. Well though I am sure I am now guilty of some of your aforementioned complaints I hope I have been more informative than troublesome.

[Alex Weitzman]

I think one of the biggest blames of that can be set to the inability to take the medium seriously is the very thing that keeps it alive. Marketing toys, cards, cereals, and commercials help portray animation as a cheesy gimmick design to take your money. Most mediums of entertainment do not use this strategy heavily releasing perhaps mugs and tea shirts at most and it becomes something one imeadiatly relates with a cartoon with only timeless classics like Star Wars able to sell toys without losing credibility.

A very interesting point, but I point out that this particular facet of the argument is somewhat chicken/egg. Certainly, one will agree that toys, mugs, breakfast cereals, and so forth are deliberately intended for an audience of children. Therefore, the makers of the cartoons are already operating under the foregone conclusion that their audience will be mainly children, and that they do not need (or cannot afford) to advertise to any other audiences. As I said in the editorial, these conclusions by the filmmakers and executives seem to be based on the pre-established prejudice against animation by adult audiences, anyway. (Alliteration ahoy! That makes seven in a row.) And if those adult audiences got that prejudice because they see these cartoons being advertised with toys, mugs, breakfast cereals, and so forth, then the debate has become circular. Where does it begin? I submit that the other reasons for anti-animation prejudices have created their own additional reasons for existing, like self-fulfilling prophecies.

As to what you were saying about your friends not respecting you or your choices even when you're simply expressing your love for the animated works of your preference, I would suggest pointing out to them which live-action works you love, and explain why with intelligence and insight. Then apply the same intelligence and insight to your favorite animated works. That should be proof enough that the same analytical and emotional faculties can be applied to either artform with ease, and that there is therefore no difference. If they continue to argue against that, challenge them to explain now why they think your analysis of animation is somehow less valid than your same analysis of live-action.

[Gokou Ruri]

Or it could simply be that human psyche relates a whole lot more emotionally to real life humans than animation. So any serious/mature animation would be lacking in the realism department compared to a live-action medium as an alternative. You can't get any more real than live-action, after all.

So unless you're going to somehow change the way the human brains work for every single person on planet Earth, it's going to be like going at a mountain with a spoon.

[Tash]

No offence to whoever wrote that, but that was a very boring article. It sounds like it would sound great when spoken out loud to an audience, but it felt like a chore to read. Maybe for the next one you can cut down on the wordiness a bit?

[Captin "Hank" Murphy]

...Whoa! Give me a minute to try to wrap my head around that without giving me a headache.

...Ok, I think I got some of it. I do get that most parents try to prove they don't watch cartoons at all unless they have to for their kids or grandkids, and I strongly agree that anything new is automaticly shot down by those who ironicly are into animation by the first ep or even before it premears, with comon phrase "It's gonna suck".


I would like to hear your views on how anime changed the playing field of animation media, before and after shows like pokemon started the anime craze. As well as back in the day when Speed Racer was watched by kids and adults alike.

[Dudley]

No offence to whoever wrote that, but that was a very boring article. It sounds like it would sound great when spoken out loud to an audience, but it felt like a chore to read. Maybe for the next one you can cut down on the wordiness a bit?

Ditto.

[Peter Paltridge]

No offence to whoever wrote that, but that was a very boring article. It sounds like it would sound great when spoken out loud to an audience, but it felt like a chore to read. Maybe for the next one you can cut down on the wordiness a bit?
Yes, that was like a Tycho newspost, only half as nerdy-worded.

I agreed with the points I could understand. I hated being talked down to as a kid. When people grow up, it seems the majority of them completely forget what being a kid was like.

And the point about rejecting anything you enjoyed as a kid, simply because you enjoyed it as a kid, has some worth. It's true, and come to think of it, it is stupid, isn't it? Think I'll go buy some chocolate milk.

[Sparticus]

I think the best way to combat this phenomenon (the branding of all animation as kid stuff) is to just make smarter cartoons. I don't mean more "adult" cartoons, I mean stuff like Animaniacs, Freakazoid or Fosters Home For Imaginary Friends. Cartoons that have substance.

[Captin "Hank" Murphy]

I think the best way to combat this phenomenon (the branding of all animation as kid stuff) is to just make smarter cartoons. I don't mean more "adult" cartoons, I mean stuff like Animaniacs, Freakazoid or Fosters Home For Imaginary Friends. Cartoons that have substance.

He saying it's our fault, the viewers, that we are causing a cycle of close-mindedness that effects the choices of the studios that makes them. Because we always seem to hate what's being made today because they're not the cartoons we want to see or it's not like the older version of a series (example: The Batman), and that most grown-ups and parents think it's not right for them to enjoy cartoons at their age, it gives the marketing department the idea that anyone over the age of 12 doesn't give a rat's patoot about animation. So they keep they animated media just for the kids (with exceptions to fox's sunday night line-up and adult swim).

So to fix this we need to keep an open-mind to the new stuff, and not hate it souly because it's not %100 like the older series you love. Also, teach adults and parents it's ok to watch animated shows.

Still studios like Disney can't be blamless on how animation is treated in the modern age.

[Kitschensyngk]

I can see your point in this.

A lot of people tend to distance themselves from things branded for children for fear that John Q. Public won't think they're mature adults when he sees that they're openly interested in said things.

It is those other people as well as executives who believe that 'G'-rated movies mean movies "for kids" and not just "suitable for kids", and those are the kinds of movies that get made. We seem to forget that most executives are, in fact, "those other people."