"Pan's Labyrinth" Talkback (Spoilers)

[Figaro]

I got to see this movie this afternoon, and I can honestly say this: Do yourself a favor and see this movie in a theater if you get the chance. It's a haunting, beautifully-done film. The direction, script, cinematography, music, acting and visual effects are all top-notch. This is one movie that absorbed me and had me hooked from first frame to last; honestly, I didn't want it to end! Don't let the English subtitles put you off, as they really don't get in the way.

By thy side,

Figaro

[Czar Gato]

I've been eyeing this film for a while, but had been planning on waiting for its release on DVD. Maybe I will check it out sooner if I can find a theatre around here that's carrying it.

[Hanshotfirst113]

Nice to see a subtitled film without Quentin Tarantino's name attached to it getting such positive reception. I'm surprised that a film so offbeat would have this much appeal. I agree that it's a fantastic film.

[Michael24]

What kind of content is in this movie that is has an R rating? I first saw an ad for it a few weeks ago, and I actually laughed when it said "Rated R" because it looked like a typical fantasy movie for kids in the vein of Narnia, and that rating caught me by surprise. And it has subtitles? It's a foreign movie?

[Noukon]

What kind of content is in this movie that is has an R rating? I first saw an ad for it a few weeks ago, and I actually laughed when it said "Rated R" because it looked like a typical fantasy movie for kids in the vein of Narnia, and that rating caught me by surprise. And it has subtitles? It's a foreign movie?

It's rather grotesquely violent and adult. Not in an outright bad way, but del Toro definitely wanted to drive the point home that it's not a kiddie flick. There are moments of violence that are there purely for their shock value.

The fantasy elements are very subdued, and the film's focus is actually what's going on around the "fairy tale."

It's an excellent film, and well worth seeing theatrically.

[Hanshotfirst113]

It's rather grotesquely violent and adult. Not in an outright bad way, but del Toro definitely wanted to drive the point home that it's not a kiddie flick. There are moments of violence that are there purely for their shock value.

The fantasy elements are very subdued, and the film's focus is actually what's going on around the "fairy tale."

It's an excellent film, and well worth seeing theatrically.

I wouldn't call it shock value; it think that it establishes the cruelty of the general and the war. An excellent film indeed, though, I agree with that.

[Arxane]

Pan's Labyrinth is a subtitled film? Huh, I never would've guessed that. On the other hand, maybe I should've suspected as much because in neither the advertisements nor the trailer does anyone but the announcer speak a single word. It's almost pathetic how foreign films have to be "disguised" like that.

As for the movie itself, I've been intrigued by this for quite a while. Maybe I should make some time to go see this during the weekend.

[Discloner]

Pan's Labyrinth is a subtitled film? Huh, I never would've guessed that. On the other hand, maybe I should've suspected as much because in neither the advertisements nor the trailer does anyone but the announcer speak a single word. It's almost pathetic how foreign films have to be "disguised" like that. I don't think it's being disquised as much as it simply wouldn't make sense to anyone who didn't speak the language otherwise. Unless of course you subtitle the trailer - which in itself is a task because trailers rarely have scenes on the screen long enough to read in the first place.


As for the movie itself, I've been intrigued by this for quite a while. Maybe I should make some time to go see this during the weekend.I would definetly advise anyone who is considering seeing the movie - to just see it. It's fantastic, one of the better films I've ever seen. A film that actually satisfies and entertains, who'da thunk it?

[Noukon]

I wouldn't call it shock value; it think that it establishes the cruelty of the general and the war. An excellent film indeed, though, I agree with that.

Yeah, you're right. The main idea of the plain gratuity is definitely to demonstrate that it's not a family film, but the violent acts themselves do all make sense within the story, and give it its unflinchingly cruel tone.

[Daphne Blake]

I think this was a horrible film, I was deeply disturbed and I think I nearly vomited! It's prob because of taste in films though, I hate violent films and I didn't like the kind of magic which was involved. I think I'll stick to my cartoons, though I stick can't beleive how people can enjoy watching people be tortured.

[Discloner]

I think I'll stick to my cartoons, though I stick can't beleive how people can enjoy watching people be tortured.Not so much the point of people being tortured. Quite frankly there were numerous scenes in this movie that I looked away at - meaning there was no enjoyment for me of seeing people faces sliced at and fingers cut off and what have you. What people enjoy most, is the context such actions bring to the film. Its not gross for the sake of being gross, it's gross in order to establish the brutal times and methods of the people doing such. It's juxtaposing the grotesque reality of war and life in general, with a fantasy world which by all purposes should not exist. The content that derives from it that people (or at least myself) loved.

[Outlander00]

I had the chance to see Pan's Labyrinth a couple of weeks ago... and I must say it is one of the most beautifuly made movies ever done. Period. From direction to cinematography to editing, audio and acting... EVERYTHING about the film is excellent. It is a excellent mix of dreaminess fantasy and harsh, cruel reality in 1940's Spain. Deffinately not for kids though... but extremely enjoyable none the less. :D

[Cogliostro]

I had been waiting for this movie to hit theaters around here and last week I found out it was playing near me and took a friend to see it. It was a wonderful experience. It's a movie that makes you think about it, long after seeing it. I love how the ending is open to opinion and could go either way. I only had a few things I thought should have been different. One is that I think the task given to Ofelia's task should have been longer and had define meaning behind them. Her task seemed random and quick. The other thing is that I felt there should have been more of the "fantasy" side of the movie. There was so much of the harsh real world and very little of the interesting "fantasy" world that it left you wanting to experience more of it but then again I think that could have been done of purpose to have us feel the way Ofelia did. Overall a unique and wonderful movie and experience.

I felt the message of the movie was that the world is cruel, harsh and unrelenting and that only yourself can create love and happiness within it.

[Noukon]

It's interesting that between Pan's Labyrinth, Children of Men and Babel, Mexican directors are sort of taking Hollywood by storm this season.

The directors in question are actually acquaintences, and from what I've heard, discussed bringing similar themes into all three films to subtlely connect them. I haven't yet been able to see all three, though, so I couldn't say what connections there were...

[DarkAngel]

One is that I think the task given to Ofelia's task should have been longer and had define meaning behind them. Her task seemed random and quick. The other thing is that I felt there should have been more of the "fantasy" side of the movie.
I agree completely. The 3 tasks, and really that whole fantasy world/aspect, seemed very half-baked.

I was quite disappointed by the movie. Strong production values and well filmed, but the pace was much too slow and there weren't many scenes that truly grabbed me. I appreciate a lot of the little details and I greatly enjoyed the ending, but unfortunately it didn't have the impact I would have liked given that much of what proceeded it wasn't particularly compelling.

By far, my favorite scene was the one with the creature with its eyes in its hands. If the movie had featured a lot more scenes with that kind of intensity and energy, I would have been thrilled.

[FlowersInMidgar]

I saw this about a week ago with a friend. I thought it was one of the best films I've seen in a long time. Very dark, violent and sad but also very beautiful and with a good message about the evils of fascism with great acting and visuals.

I will say some scenes I consider shock value however.
For instance, the "sewing" scene.

A couple in front of us walked out half way through.
However, to be fair, much of the torture is implied and not directly shown. Del Toro knew when to pull away just as the audience is on the verge of looking away (for me anyway)
then, later, show the results and not the process. He seemed to keep everything in moderation, I would have loved more "labyrinth" scenes though. He knew when to force the violence on you and when to stop (again, for my tolerence level)

Being a fairy tale you really need to realize that, in traditional fairy tales, the villain is truly EVIL. I mean if you look at the original versions, not the tamed versions we read in schools (I mean when you truly examine the things that happen). They are quite violent. The villain is usually over the top but, due to the medium, it's difficult to convey the violence in a more impactive (word?) way.
When these same instances are acted out by real people with realistic results these same children's stories change into something more identifiable and less fantastic and interpretive.

Example: How would the nursery rhyme Jack and Jill look with actors and special effect?
Jack falls down the hill and cracks his head (crown) open.
Little Red Riding Hood
The original Cinderella step sisters trying on the glass slippers, etc.

It's kind of like Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets.
When Ron is vomiting up slugs. In the book, it seems more comical. But on film with a real boy and "real" slugs with the look on his face, it seems much more disturbing and the same image has a stronger impact.

[Hanshotfirst113]

I agree completely. The 3 tasks, and really that whole fantasy world/aspect, seemed very half-baked.

Now THAT I must take umbridge with. del Toro said that "setting informs detail," and I felt that the multilayered narrative paralleling the war aned coming of age, all through the lens of the fantasy world was superb. All genre fiction does that; consider the Vietnam War in Aliens or the growing up metaphor in Buffy; to me, PL worked the same way. If you're willing, I'd recommend that you check out The Devil's Backbone and Cronos, two other superb works of his. Of course, you're entitled to your beliefs, and I appreciate you mature statements of your criticism, I just disagree. Don't take it the wrong way :p.


I was quite disappointed by the movie. Strong production values and well filmed, but the pace was much too slow and there weren't many scenes that truly grabbed me. I appreciate a lot of the little details and I greatly enjoyed the ending, but unfortunately it didn't have the impact I would have liked given that much of what proceeded it wasn't particularly compelling.

By far, my favorite scene was the one with the creature with its eyes in its hands. If the movie had featured a lot more scenes with that kind of intensity and energy, I would have been thrilled.

I'm going to have to disagree. I think that the film's pace is subtly deliberate, rather than slow. Obviously, that'll be polarizing, but del Toro is to me a much more classic and slow filmmaker than many of his contemporaries. I have a great deal of respect for you. and I appreciate your comments, I just happend to disagree. To me, it was the slow pace which allowed the story its richness. Then again, I'm a huge del Toro fan, so perhaps I'm biased, but really, I genuinely think that the film is an exceptional piece of work.

[FlowersInMidgar]

^
Also, the character Ofelia is a dual natured being. Her life consists of two worlds: one mundane and one fantastic. Much the way the "real world" help forge Alice's wonderland. So does the "real world" contrast the nature and fantasy of the labyrinth.

Her three trials are arbitrary for a reason. It's dream-like. It's surreal, and going into too much detail as to the "why's" of each test would be defeating. Besides' she's dominated by her situation that is steadily getting worse and in constant fear. This forced "do this now and question not" mentality of her situation is reflected in her interpretation of Pan's demands and may in fact, give birth to them.

Since when do the trials of this nature throughout mythology and fantasy ever make complete sense and not seem arbitrary? Do those who give them, provide large justifications to the trials? They're Gods, the half spoken information is also the test. Fairy tale trials are even more "arbitrary".

The arbitrary and confusing aspect of the trials (which is standard to fairy tales), is also part of her test of character. The viewer is also being tested in a way. Halfway through you get the feeling Pan may be evil. This the point of testing her faith and virtue.
As is being born into, and living in, a world of pain and the labyrinth may or may not be a delusion or escape.

Long story short, the real world is as much a test as the three trials and sets up the final test. (to me)

[DarkAngel]

I have a great deal of respect for you. and I appreciate your comments, I just happend to disagree. To me, it was the slow pace which allowed the story its richness. Then again, I'm a huge del Toro fan, so perhaps I'm biased, but really, I genuinely think that the film is an exceptional piece of work.
I'm not going to disagree with you. I didn't find it to be nearly as great as I'd heard, but I'm also not so egotistical as to believe I'm right and everyone else is wrong. Too many individuals who's opinions I respect --including certain reviewers, friends, yourself-- have high praise for this movie. That means something. Putting aside my own subjective issues with the movie, I recognize the quality of the production. I see this as a great movie that, for whatever reason, I just don't "get".

[purplehairedwonder]

When I saw it, I had no idea that it was going to be as violent and disturbing as it was. I was expecting a fantasy story with maybe some language that got it it's R-rating, but I was very wrong. There were several scenes I had to turn away from because they were disturbing, like the sewing scene and when the farmer got his face bashed in. At the same time, it was very suspenseful and I was on the edge of my seat for most of the film. I kept waiting for Mercedes to bite the big one and was surprised, but glad she never did. The scene with the creature with the eyes in his hands... wow. I don't know what to say about that besides wow. The final scene was very beautiful with Mercedes humming the song juxtaposed with Ofelia "coming home."

Overall, it was a beautifully done movie, but one that I don't think I'd want to watch it again.

[Lord Dalek]

I still need to see this... :sad:

[FlowersInMidgar]

I'm not going to disagree with you. I didn't find it to be nearly as great as I'd heard, but I'm also not so egotistical as to believe I'm right and everyone else is wrong. Too many individuals who's opinions I respect --including certain reviewers, friends, yourself-- have high praise for this movie. That means something. Putting aside my own subjective issues with the movie, I recognize the quality of the production. I see this as a great movie that, for whatever reason, I just don't "get".

That is a precious rarity on message boards. Some people just can't separate personal preference from quality.
There are so many things I don't like as well but I can still recognize the quality (The Sopranos for instance).
:)

[DarkAngel]

There are so many things I don't like as well but I can still recognize the quality (The Sopranos for instance).
:)
It's a great to see that kind of perception. For me, remaining objective is a big thing and something I always try to maintain.

It's funny. I'll be talking with someone and call a particular movie/book/album great, and then mention that I personally don't like it. That'll usually produce a puzzled reaction and a response of "why are you saying it's great if you don't like it?" To which my answer is "My personal taste doesn't really have any bearing on whether something is great or not."

:)