The Best DC Comics Movie Ever (Round 2)

[S.C.B]

I think it's fair to say that Batman won the last round (although Superman was catching up... hoorah for denial). Now it's time for Round Two!

This time around, Bats gets my vote. One of the best comic book adaptations, and a good movie by its' own merits as well. Definitely a contender for the big final.

[kidx]

I missed Constantine, I would have voted for that if I saw it in time. But the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen was quite enjoyable as well.

[The Myst]

Voted Batman Returns. I either haven't seen the others or didn't like them.

[Matt A]

For me, it's a tie between Constantine and Batman Begins. Both are great films, clever and entertaining and original and all the rest of it, but I'd say the former takes the prize with its unbending cynicism.:)

-Matt A-

[Young Justice]

Altought the last round had the classic Superman and the good Batman, I think this round has more movies that I liked in a general way. This is the round that has the some of the worst DC movies of all time.

Batman Forever, is a bit weak and overplayed, but the origin of Robin is well done so it has a soft spot for me.

LXG is not as deep, dark and intelligent as its comic counterpart, but it was well done in my opinion. I think the idea of getting the story more light and more easy was ok. They managed to turn a very obscure literature driven comic to a more action oriented superhero genre movie. It's a shame that it didn't manage to get a sequel.

Costantine was a very nice movie too. I didn't mind the changes they made from comics. I think it worked and the movie was a good surprise. I hope there's a sequel.

Batman Begins, you know, IMHO, is the best comic movie of all time, so it gets my vote.

Superman Returns is a very nice movie. I have enjoyed it a lot, but I was a bit disappointed because I think it was the perfect oportunity to do a Superman Begins and start a fresh live action DC Universe with Nolan's Batman.

[DisneyBoy]

Batman Returns has two votes already hmmm?

Wonder who voted :p

If anyone votes Catwoman, they'll be severely mocked :shrug:

[Cortez2301]

Batman Begins got my vote.Batman returns would have been my second choice of course.

[Michael24]

I've seen every movie on this list except for Steel. (Shaq *shudders*) It's hard for me to pass up Batman Returns and Superman Returns, but I ultimately vote for The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. It's got entertainment up the wazoo and I love it. (Not to mention it finally sold me on Peta Wilson as an actress. :D )

BR and SR would be a close second and third, though. Batman Forever, I've found, is not as bad as I remember it being. I can actually tolerate it and find some good in it nowadays. Constantine gets props for a damn good opening sequence before quickly going downhill. And Catwoman, well, I'll be honest and say this... I've seen worse movies.

[Spider-Man]

Shouldn't V For Vendetta be on the list? And even though I want to give it to Superman Returns I enjoyed Batman Begins a little bit more.

[S.C.B]

Shouldn't V For Vendetta be on the list? And even though I want to give it to Superman Returns I enjoyed Batman Begins a little bit more.

V For Vendetta is a big complicated broo-ha-ha as far as the publisher is concerned, so I thought it simpler to include it in the independent comics poll later. It's the same situation as A History of Violence, which has a lot of technicalities involved.

[Young Justice]

V For Vendetta is a big complicated broo-ha-ha as far as the publisher is concerned, so I thought it simpler to include it in the independent comics poll later. It's the same situation as A History of Violence, which has a lot of technicalities involved.

Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, but this movie didn't have the DC comics and/or Vertigo logo in the beginning of it? If it is so, I think this movie is more DC than LXG, indepedently the confusion about the publisher.

[S.C.B]

Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, but this movie didn't have the DC comics and/or Vertigo logo in the beginning of it? If it is so, I think this movie is more DC than LXG, indepedently the confusion about the publisher.

I haven't actually seen some of these films (I know, shame on me), but from what I've read LXG has always been published by DC Comics imprint America's Best Comics, whereas the publishers responsible for movies like V for Vendetta and A History of Violence have been bought up by DC at a later date.

At least, that's what wikipedia says. And I refuse to trust anything other than wikipedia.

Just kidding.

[Young Justice]

The film V for Vendetta did use the Vertigo logo, though it was originally published in the UK, in the comics anthology magazine Warrior and then reprinted by DC, prior to the existence of Vertigo label(reprints of the trade collection now have the Vertigo label, like reprints of Sandman). The last chapter of V for Vendetta never saw print until DC published the last issue of the miniseries, because Warrior folded before the story had run its course. I remember it taking forever for that last issue to come out in the late 80s...

League of Extraordinary Gentlemen was an ABC Comic, published through Wildstorm, which in turn is owned by DC.

History of Violence was first published by Paradox Press, another of DC's labels. It has since been rebranded as a Vertigo graphic novel.

By the things you have posted here I would place V for Vendetta, LXG and History of Violence as DC comics movies.

[Stu]

Batman Begins. There really isn't another film on that list that comes anywhere remotely close to topping it.

[DisneyBoy]

I'll never understand why people love Batman Begins so much. It's so...meat and potatoes.

Okay, I like meat and potatoes too...and I guess there's something satisfying about seeing the obvious good origin stuff (that's been whittled down and figured out over time through comics, tv and film) compiled in one neat package.

But the modern Gotham? The "We're not going with rubber again NOT!" suit? The Katie Holmes?

:shrug:

EDIT: I totally want to see Steel. Has it been released on DVD?

[Stu]

I'll never understand why people love Batman Begins so much. It's so...meat and potatoes.

Okay, I like meat and potatoes too...and I guess there's something satisfying about seeing the obvious good origin stuff (that's been whittled down and figured out over time through comics, tv and film) compiled in one neat package.

But the modern Gotham? The "We're not going with rubber again NOT!" suit? The Katie Holmes? :shrug:

Because in my opinion, the other Batman films have poor excuses for a central character and the majority of the villains really aren't interesting. It was great to see someone Batman and strive for verisimilitude with it, not some gothic fan film with a dumb lead who couldn't fight his way out of a paper bag.

Batman Begins managed to take a great story and arguably make it better than ever, not to mention gave us an interesting romance and well, an entertaining version of Bruce Wayne, which hasn't been present anywhere since Batman: The Animated Series ended in 1995.

I didn't have any problems with Katie Holmes. Not quite as good as Catwoman in Batman Returns but interesting all the same, which is a lot more than can be said for Basinger, Kidman and whats her name from Batman And Robin. Agree about the suit though, could've done a lot better with that.


EDIT: I totally want to see Steel. Has it been released on DVD?
Mercifully, no.

[The Myst]

Batman Returns has two votes already hmmm?

Wonder who voted :p

Me! I did! I love that movie.

[Noukon]

It's funny, because they also each create a loving tribute to the 70s versions of the characters that I grew up with.

I would honestly characterize Batman Begins more as a tribute to the Batman graphic novels of the late 80s (Dark Knight Returns, Long Halloween, etc) more than anything. I know that Nolan considered these his "Batman Bibles" during production. But it does certainly draw from many different eras of the character.

I voted Batman Begins, but Superman Returns is a close second. While I love Superman Returns, I always did feel like it relied too much on nostalgia for the Donner original -- not that that's an inherintly bad thing, but it makes it a less unique experience.

[Ragebot]

Batman Begins managed to take a great story and arguably make it better than ever, not to mention gave us an interesting romance and well, an entertaining version of Bruce Wayne, which hasn't been present anywhere since Batman: The Animated Series ended in 1995.


Which opens the question, where's Mask of the Phantasm on this list?

[The Penguin]

Can't we just vote in the damn polls, people? S.C.B has tried to offer something interesting and fun to foster discussion and just about every other post is varying degrees of whining about where another movie is or how a movie isn't in this particular poll! I'm tired of looking at it. Can't we just vote in the poll and discuss the choices in it?!


Which opens the question, where's Mask of the Phantasm on this list?I'll close it for you. This is not an animation board.

[BonyT]

Batman Begins. There really isn't another film on that list that comes anywhere remotely close to topping it.
Batman Begins, you know, IMHO, is the best comic movie of all time, so it gets my vote.I could not agree more, guys. Batman Begins is the Gold Standard for all live-action superhero films, ever. We could talk about a number of this film's virtues; but at the end of the day, for me, the thing that really separates Begins from the pack is the time and care it invests in fleshing out the title character. The Batman character at his best has some genuine depth; and while Begins really can't be said to break any new ground, it does do a superb job of honoring some of the very finest from the comic/graphic novel tradition. In contrast, Tim Burton gives little more than a passing nod to Batman's history and motivations, rendering a flat character in whom the audience ultimately feels no investment at all --- "just the guy in black leather" as someone aptly put it in the Part 1 thread --- a character who is easily upstaged by his far more interesting opponent.

[The Penguin]

I had to cast my vote for Batman Begins as well. I enjoyed Batman & Superman Returns and I once called Batman Forever my favorite movie, Begins just gives you everything. A strong, believable hero origin surrounded by strong characters and good villains. You just can't go wrong with this one.

[DarkAngel]

In contrast, Tim Burton gives little more than a passing nod to Batman's history and motivations, rendering a flat character in whom the audience ultimately feels no investment at all --- "just the guy in black leather" as someone aptly put it in the Part 1 thread --- a character who is easily upstaged by his far more interesting opponent.
I agree with your assessment of "Begins", but I don't think it's fair (or accurate) to characterize Burton's movies that way. He wasn't attempting to capture Batman's history like "Begins" did, and that's not wrong or bad. It was a different interpretation, but not any less worthwhile.

There's more going on in Burton's films that I think most are giving credit for. I won't get into all that now, partly because I don't want to turn the thread into a Burton-defense debate, but mostly because James (if he hasn't chimed in yet) can present that case far better.

For me, out of these choices, it comes down to "Begins" and both the "Returns" films. Loved all three. But as I said above, I'm giving the edge to "Begins". As great as it was, though, I preferred Keaton's Batman to Bale's. I always found his character the most fascinating, despite the theatrics and flair of Nicholson or any other who appeared in the Burton movies.

[BonyT]

I agree with your assessment of "Begins", but I don't think it's fair (or accurate) to characterize Burton's movies that way. He wasn't attempting to capture Batman's history like "Begins" did, and that's not wrong or bad. It was a different interpretation, but not any less worthwhile.

There's more going on in Burton's films that I think most are giving credit for. I won't get into all that now, partly because I don't want to turn the thread into a Burton-defense debateWell, strictly speaking, my point wasn't to say that Burton's approach was "wrong" or "bad" (although I admit it isn't an approach that appeals to me), but rather to point out that, the fact that his approach didn't devote any time to showing us the underpinnings of the Batman character necessarily leaves his Batman flat in some ways compared to Nolan's. Having said that, I've read some eloquent defenses of Burton's film before here on TZ, and I realize there are some points to be made. When I first saw Burton's Batman, I enjoyed some elements of it; but shortly thereafter, I read DKR, which was a catalyst for me in considering the mythic depths of the Batman character, and frankly, Burton's film seemed to me such a pale portrait by comparison that I've simply never enjoyed it since. But perhaps much of that is ultimately a matter of personal tastes; and I agree with you that it would be inappropriate to hijack this thread for that discussion. :)

[FireWarrior]

Batman Begins.. easily as you can tell from my avatar. No other movie on this poll comes even remotely close to it. That was the definitive Batman movie IMO.

[S.C.B]

Regarding the 'why isn't (insert movie) here?' question:

I apologise if I've missed out a film or two that may technically be a DC movie, but rest assured, if they were adapted from a comic book or graphic novel, they will be included in a future poll. So if whatever movie was excluded is that good, you'll get a chance to vote for it.

[Young Justice]

I'll never understand why people love Batman Begins so much. It's so...meat and potatoes.

Okay, I like meat and potatoes too...and I guess there's something satisfying about seeing the obvious good origin stuff (that's been whittled down and figured out over time through comics, tv and film) compiled in one neat package.

There were never been a Batman origin told properly in movies. 1989 Batman doesn't count because there's a lot of stuff that they never cared to tell, like why Bruce Wayne chose Bats as his main motif.

And Batman Begins was not that obvious. They changed a lot of things that was never used in any other media. Things that are important for the Bat myth, but other writers never gave too much value. The biggest example is the Bruce Wayne - Lucius Fox relation. Batman Begins took that relationship to another level. For Nolan and co. Batman would never came to life if Fox wasn't around, and that's a good thing about Begins. A lot of non comic fans friends of mine talked to me after saw BB: "Yes, now they really explained how the Batman got all those toys". And that was satisfying. Mixing the Bruce Wayne training with Ra's Al Ghul was also a bonus point.



But the modern Gotham? The "We're not going with rubber again NOT!" suit? The Katie Holmes? :shrug:
I don't like Nolan Gotham either. I think there's a shame that good ideas are discarded just for the sake of being different from his/hers predecessor. Nolan discarded the American Gothic Gotham just to be different from Burton. I wish they made Gotham to look more like New York and less like Chicago. I think it would work either in the reality concept of BB. A lot of people have bashed the animated show The Batman, but its Gotham is really cool and just the way I would do for BB, except for the green, red and purple skyes. :)

After 1989 Batman, there's no other way that Batman would have a suit that is not an armor. Even in the comic they have incorporated that idea. So if Nolan ever said they were not doing a "Rubber suit" it was a big mistake for him, because he would, finally, ending up using a "Rubber suit".

About Katie Holmes, I thought that her character was a bit weak, but it worked for the story. They could have written her out of BB if they used a combination of Alfred, Dent and Vicky Vale. But I think it was ok.

[Young Justice]

I would honestly characterize Batman Begins more as a tribute to the Batman graphic novels of the late 80s (Dark Knight Returns, Long Halloween, etc) more than anything. I know that Nolan considered these his "Batman Bibles" during production. But it does certainly draw from many different eras of the character.

The Long Halloween was released in 1996.

[BonyT]

I'll never understand why people love Batman Begins so much. It's so...meat and potatoes.

Okay, I like meat and potatoes too...and I guess there's something satisfying about seeing the obvious good origin stuff (that's been whittled down and figured out over time through comics, tv and film) compiled in one neat package.I suppose a lot of this really does come down to personal tastes. DB, you don't care for Begins because you see it largely as simply a rehashing of what's already been explored in graphic novels, bringing nothing new to the table; and you prefer Burton's Batman because it was an inventive reimagining, a fresh take on the character. I, on the other hand, appreciate Begins because I think it did a masterful and sensitive job of honoring some of what I consider to be the very finest work ever done on Batman; and I dislike Burton's Batman because it seems to me to be so far from what I consider to be the "best" and richest that the character has to offer.

The truth is, there are probably good reasons why both Burton's Batman and Batman Begins are generally considered classics of the genre (... even if I just can't seem to appreciate those qualities in Burton's film :p ).

[DisneyBoy]

Good points BonyT. For me, what's classic about the Bat is mostly the look. The music. The Gotham. The suit. Something tortured underneath that's palpable, but not endlessly discussed. Keaton, Burton and Elfman just nailed it for me.

The mainstream DCU and these films can try and try, and they seem to be pleasing many. But until they venture into territory that wasn't already perfecetly realized in teh Burton works, I'll be bored.

Which brings me to Harvey Dent and Harley Quinn. Make 'em good Nolan.

[Noukon]

The Long Halloween was released in 1996.

Yeah, my bad. I tend to lump it in with DKR.

[BonyT]

For me, what's classic about the Bat is mostly the look.I think you're spot on there. When I was just a sprout, it was the Bat's unbearably cool look in the comic books -- not the writing or background story or anything else -- that grabbed me and wouldn't let go, ever. That's what really made me (and I suspect pretty much every kid) a lifelong fan.

(That, btw, is where I part company with ALL of the big-budget Bat feature films. The whole leather-and-rubber thing ... well, has connotations I'd just rather not consider. --- And that's one of the grudges I've got against Burton: He's the scoundrel who emblazoned that unfortunate association with Batman's look forever into the public consciousness! :p)


Keaton, Burton and Elfman just nailed it for me.Definitely agree on Elfman -- his music for Batman is only matched in terms of fitting the character by '78's Superman IMO.

[Lord Dalek]

Technically League IS NOT a DC title since it debuted prior to its parent company being leverage bought out.

Regardless Batman Returns wins just because I say so.

[S.C.B]

Not that it matters or anything. I'm just causing trouble.

*Angrily shakes stick*

[Young Justice]

I think you're spot on there. When I was just a sprout, it was the Bat's unbearably cool look in the comic books -- not the writing or background story or anything else -- that grabbed me and wouldn't let go, ever. That's what really made me (and I suspect pretty much every kid) a lifelong fan.

For me was quite the opposite. I liked Batman from Superfriends and the 60's tv show when I was a kid, but never cared too much for him, especially in comics. I've always liked more the Marvel ones like Hulk, Spider-man and X-men. But when I read DKR, the story and how the mind of Batman was portraited in the comic series made me a Batman and DC comics fan for life.


Definitely agree on Elfman -- his music for Batman is only matched in terms of fitting the character by '78's Superman IMO.

I think exactly like you about Elfman's Batman theme. That's why I think I'll be a little disappointed by TDK theme.

What I liked about BB theme was exactly that it was not a proper score. It had that non-melody, just chord changes feel that I thought was minimal and interesting. I thought it fitted perfectly fot the "grounded in reality" tha Nolan was trying to do. I mean, in reality there is not a music score, so a score that not sound like one was a good idea.

But Zimmer and Newton Howard said that they will do a proper score for TDK and since I think that Elfman's would be impossible to top, hence my feeling of future disappointment.

[BonyT]

For me was quite the opposite. I liked Batman from Superfriends and the 60's tv show when I was a kid, but never cared too much for him, especially in comics. I've always liked more the Marvel ones like Hulk, Spider-man and X-men. But when I read DKR, the story and how the mind of Batman was portraited in the comic series made me a Batman and DC comics fan for life.DKR was an epiphany re: the Batman character for me as well --- although not necessarily in the ways that often get mentioned about the book, but rather because it was a catalyst for me to see what I now believe to be the profoundly mythic core of the character. But it was Batman's look that first captivated me as a child, and that appeal never really lets go.



I think exactly like you about Elfman's Batman theme. That's why I think I'll be a little disappointed by TDK theme.

What I liked about BB theme was exactly that it was not a proper score. It had that non-melody, just chord changes feel that I thought was minimal and interesting. I thought it fitted perfectly fot the "grounded in reality" tha Nolan was trying to do. I mean, in reality there is not a music score, so a score that not sound like one was a good idea.

But Zimmer and Newton Howard said that they will do a proper score for TDK and since I think that Elfman's would be impossible to top, hence my feeling of future disappointment.I didn't realize they were planning a new score for TDK. I guess I just assumed that the music for the sequel would be similar in character to the Begins music.

[Young Justice]

I didn't realize they were planning a new score for TDK. I guess I just assumed that the music for the sequel would be similar in character to the Begins music.

Zimmer and Newton-Howard said that the non-melody score for BB was just because Batman hadn't earned his score yet, but the melody we see in the credits of BB are really a glimpse of the full score they will do for TDK when Bruce Wayne is the full Batman.

[S.C.B]

Zimmer and Newton-Howard said that the non-melody score for BB was just because Batman hadn't earned his score yet, but the melody we see in the credits of BB are really a glimpse of the full score they will do for TDK when Bruce Wayne is the full Batman.

Ah, taking their cue (no pun intended) from Casino Royale, I see. Or is that the other way around?

Anyway, I will say that as a kid, I did love Burton's Batman. There were so many great bits for me. The first time I saw the Batmobile, the shields going up... still the best Batmobile for me (although I do like the B:TAS version).

But as I grew up and saw what else there was to be explored in Batman as a serious character, Batman just began to feel more and more like a waste. It felt a bit like a filler episode of a TV show, which no movie should.

[Frank Castle]

I voted for Batman Forever. Now before you guys raise your pitchforks, let me explain something. Begins was a great movie but it didn't feel like a comic book movie. Forever felt like a comic book movie to me. Also, Burton's Returns was too dark and depressing for me to give it my vote.

[Mynd Hed]

It occurs to me that Begins vs. Burton discussion might best be saved until they inevitably go head-to-head in the Best of DC thread.

Also wanted to mention that I think these threads are a great idea, and SCB, I think you've done a great job of keeping them going. I could be niggly about what is and isn't considered a DC or Marvel movie if I wanted to, but the important thing is that nothing's completely left out of the running that should've been included, and so far I've got no complaints on that score.

For the record, I went with the majority and voted Batman. It wasn't perfect; I greatly prefer a fluid martial artist Batman to the stiff, stoic Bats we got, and I don't know that Keaton really did it for me. But then, none of the live-action Batmen have ever quite felt right compared to Kevin Conroy (which is the first version that stands out in my memory from back in the day).
But Nicholson as the Joker was aces all the way, I'll take the Elfman score over any other superhero score ever, and the atmosphere in general was great.

[DisneyBoy]

Ahhh...Batman Returns is in second! This is gonna be close!

BURN BABY- BURN!

[Noukon]

But Zimmer and Newton Howard said that they will do a proper score for TDK and since I think that Elfman's would be impossible to top, hence my feeling of future disappointment.

This is not meant as a direct argument or anything, I just wanted to bring it up -- I've always felt that Shirley Walker's score for Mask of the Phantasm was the best one ever done for a Batman film. Are you guys taking it into consideration here?

Now, I certainly don't expect Zimmer and crew to come anywhere near topping Elfman or Walker -- they specifically don't have the creative chops. But I do certainly think it's possible.

[Jacob T. Paschal]

Altought the last round had the classic Superman and the good Batman, I think this round has more movies that I liked in a general way. This is the round that has the some of the worst DC movies of all time.

Batman Forever, is a bit weak and overplayed, but the origin of Robin is well done so it has a soft spot for me.

LXG is not as deep, dark and intelligent as its comic counterpart, but it was well done in my opinion. I think the idea of getting the story more light and more easy was ok. They managed to turn a very obscure literature driven comic to a more action oriented superhero genre movie. It's a shame that it didn't manage to get a sequel.

Costantine was a very nice movie too. I didn't mind the changes they made from comics. I think it worked and the movie was a good surprise. I hope there's a sequel.

Batman Begins, you know, IMHO, is the best comic movie of all time, so it gets my vote.

Superman Returns is a very nice movie. I have enjoyed it a lot, but I was a bit disappointed because I think it was the perfect oportunity to do a Superman Begins and start a fresh live action DC Universe with Nolan's Batman.


As much as I agree, it can still work, Singer's Superman just heavily steals crap from the Donner stuff. And yes, I'm still bitter with you Singer, you're darn lucky that you did Jason good or else I'd hate you even more...

[Young Justice]

This is not meant as a direct argument or anything, I just wanted to bring it up -- I've always felt that Shirley Walker's score for Mask of the Phantasm was the best one ever done for a Batman film. Are you guys taking it into consideration here?

I never payed much attention to Shirley Walker score per se, but I think it was based on the theme from Elfman, wasn't it? Just like John Ottman's was based on John William's theme.


Now, I certainly don't expect Zimmer and crew to come anywhere near topping Elfman or Walker -- they specifically don't have the creative chops. But I do certainly think it's possible.

I like Zimmer and Newton-Howard's scores for other works and for BB, but I think it would be very difficult to top Elfman. His Batman score was a masterpiece.

[S.C.B]

I never payed much attention to Shirley Walker score per se, but I think it was based on the theme from Elfman, wasn't it? Just like John Ottman's was based on John William's theme.

Nay. The theme tune for the intro of the show was adapted from Danny Elfman's theme (http://anbat.toonzone.net/music/btas-opening.htm) (I think that must have been a mandate from WB, since the show was coming off the popularity of Burton's Batman), but Shirley Walker created an entirely new theme tune (http://anbat.toonzone.net/music/taobar-opening.htm)for use in the show (e.g. when Batman swoops in to beat up bad guys). It was that theme that ended up being used in Mask of the Phantasm.

I personally preferred Walker's theme, since it could be used in a swashbuckling, adventurous way (The Adventures of Batman and Robin intro), but could also be done in an fantastically dark, gothic and epic way (the opening of Mask of the Phantasm).

And it could be used all heavy metal-like in Batman Beyond. Don't forget that.

[Young Justice]

Nay. The theme tune for the intro of the show was adapted from Danny Elfman's theme (http://anbat.toonzone.net/music/btas-opening.htm) (I think that must have been a mandate from WB, since the show was coming off the popularity of Burton's Batman), but Shirley Walker created an entirely new theme tune (http://anbat.toonzone.net/music/taobar-opening.htm)for use in the show (e.g. when Batman swoops in to beat up bad guys). It was that theme that ended up being used in Mask of the Phantasm.

I know a lot about music, but I am by no means an expert, but I think the term "Theme" is about a piece of music, a melody, some chords that you create to be the skeleton of a piece. Something you can reuse during your entire score, tweaking here, modifying there, repeating here and there etc.

I think Sherley Walker's theme is good, but IMHO is too much similar to Elfman's. It appears that, in a roughly way to say it, she used Elfman's theme to do some parts of her score. When you listen to it, you can identify some note sequences, some chord changes exactly like the one's Elfman's created. The closing theme from TNABR for intance sounds a lot like Elfman's "Finale" from 89 Batman.

I'm not saying that she copyed Elfman, but that she was hugely influenced by him. And there's nothing wrong with it. Artists are influenced by others everyday. Someone, like me, will prefer the predecessor. And someone, like you, will prefer the artist who was influenced.

[Noukon]

I know a lot about music, but I am by no means an expert, but I think the term "Theme" is about a piece of music, a melody, some chords that you create to be the skeleton of a piece. Something you can reuse during your entire score, tweaking here, modifying there, repeating here and there etc.

I think Sherley Walker's theme is good, but IMHO is too much similar to Elfman's. It appears that, in a roughly way to say it, she used Elfman's theme to do some parts of her score. When you listen to it, you can identify some note sequences, some chord changes exactly like the one's Elfman's created. The closing theme from TNABR for intance sounds a lot like Elfman's "Finale" from 89 Batman.

I'm not saying that she copyed Elfman, but that she was hugely influenced by him. And there's nothing wrong with it. Artists are influenced by others everyday. Someone, like me, will prefer the predecessor. And someone, like you, will prefer the artist who was influenced.

She was definitely influenced by Elfman. In fact, she was the orchestra conductor for Elfman's Batman score, which was how she ended up doing the music for the animated series.

The series' music evolved from Elfman's work, and the animated Batman theme does certainly draw heavily from his theme, but it is different enough to be discernable, and certainly not based directly on it as Ottman's Superman Returns score is based on John Williams' work.

I guess what I'm trying to compare are the scores in their entirety -- Elfman's Batman vs. Walker's Mask of the Phantasm. I love them both, but I've always found the MotP score to be more interesting. That's just my personal preference, though.

[Bones Justice]

Well, since Constantine is the only film that I really liked out of this list, I voted that way.

I thought Batman Begins was okay but was bored by a lot of it. This was a basic origin story that anybody that is interested in Batman already knows so I felt like I spent much of the film waiting for something new to happen. Also, the villains were as boring as they come compared to other incarnations of the same. The only real "twist" in the movie was so obvious that I was annoyed to have to wait for it's revelation. Oh, and I hated the car.

I thought Superman Returns was far less entertaining than the earlier films that it copied from. I don't know if it was Spacey or the writing but I did not enjoy this version of Luthor like I did from the original films. I did like the special effects.

LXG is a travesty compared to the source material. They ruined what could have been a great franchise. I loved the books but this movie turned my stomach.

I couldn't stand the rest of the movies. I never even bothered seeing some of them until they came out on basic cable. Even then, I had a hard time staying with them to the end.

[Young Justice]

She was definitely influenced by Elfman. In fact, she was the orchestra conductor for Elfman's Batman score, which was how she ended up doing the music for the animated series.

The series' music evolved from Elfman's work, and the animated Batman theme does certainly draw heavily from his theme, but it is different enough to be discernable, and certainly not based directly on it as Ottman's Superman Returns score is based on John Williams' work.

I guess what I'm trying to compare are the scores in their entirety -- Elfman's Batman vs. Walker's Mask of the Phantasm. I love them both, but I've always found the MotP score to be more interesting. That's just my personal preference, though.

I see. I never listened to the full MotP score the way I've listened to 89 Batman score, so I can't give a full opinion of that. I'm saying that I prefer Batman just listening to the main theme of Batman film and the main theme of The Adventures of Batman and Robin.

[Noukon]

I see. I never listened to the full MotP score the way I've listened to 89 Batman score, so I can't give a full opinion of that. I'm saying that I prefer Batman just listening to the main theme of Batman film and the main theme of The Adventures of Batman and Robin.

I would definitely recommend checking out MotP in-depth. The whole thing, especially the score, vastly transcends the quality of any of the TV stuff.

[gundam555]

I voted Batman Begins.