Why make 52 episodes a year?

[Hurricane V1]

This question has probably been asked before but I never knew the answer myself. Why do some animes debut a new episode every week for their entire run? I know Pokemon does this. I'm under the impression from episode guides that Yugioh GX and One Piece have too many episodes as well.

I mean, it draws the action out too long, or makes the episodes repetitive, it creates a need for filler arcs, etc... If seasons were cut to like 26 or 39 episodes long, the animators could make episodes of higher quality. I mean, how can anyone catch up with reruns of a show that has like 200+ episodes? I used to love Pokemon, and have tried to give it a chance again, but I have no idea what's going on with the characters anymore.

Is marketing really that important that a show has to pump out a new episode every week? Do audiences really have such short attention spans? Are we supposed to forget about past arcs and just watch the current stories?

[Rob_TF]

This happens with every anime. Japan has no reruns unless the show is popular enough. And even then, they put the reruns on a different timeslot on a different day. Filler arcs are created in manga-based anime for 2 purposes:

1. To make room for the manga to get ahead.
2. To keep the timeslot for the show.

[Hades]

I have to agree. While I think it is cool that Japan has no reruns, a manga should not be allowed to be turned into an anime until it is completed unless they are willing to only air it as long as they can animate manga material. If they run out of material, then give the show a 26 week break. There is no need for a show to be 300 episodes longer than it should be just becuase they rushed a show into production and then had to make up their own crap that does not even make sense.

[Scirel]

I have to agree. While I think it is cool that Japan has no reruns, a manga should not be allowed to be turned into an anime until it is completed unless they are willing to only air it as long as they can animate manga material. If they run out of material, then give the show a 26 week break. There is no need for a show to be 300 episodes longer than it should be just becuase they rushed a show into production and then had to make up their own crap that does not even make sense.

This pretty much seems to be what they're doing with Haruhi and Tsubasa.

As for the original poster, Yugioh GX is an anime-first thing. God only knows why they made a manga of it and worse yet put it in shonen jump USA. Did ANYONE really want it there especially with the original yugioh series to end this year?

[Duke]

This pretty much seems to be what they're doing with Haruhi and Tsubasa.
Just because you've got a break between series doesn't mean you still can't be slow or change the manga's contents. After all, it IS Bee Train.

While I think it is cool that Japan has no reruns, a manga should not be allowed to be turned into an anime until it is completed unless they are willing to only air it as long as they can animate manga material. If they run out of material, then give the show a 26 week break.
The problem with the first option is that there is rarely a set timetable for when the manga ends, as it's usually up to the creator. And if you wait too long to adapt a fan-favorite manga (such as Naruto, One Piece, or Bleach) then you risk missing the boat on merchandising, lowering your possible profits. Not to mention missing out on licscencing the show to America to capitalize on the popularity even further.

[Chris Wood]

I'm not impressed with 52 episodes. U.S. series used to be 65 episodes.

[Duke]

I'm not impressed with 52 episodes. U.S. series used to be 65 episodes.
52 episodes = 1 episode per week for 1 year = new series in one year's time. 52 episodes in Japan is what 26 episodes are in America.

[KuwabaraTheMan]

I have to agree. While I think it is cool that Japan has no reruns, a manga should not be allowed to be turned into an anime until it is completed unless they are willing to only air it as long as they can animate manga material. If they run out of material, then give the show a 26 week break. There is no need for a show to be 300 episodes longer than it should be just becuase they rushed a show into production and then had to make up their own crap that does not even make sense.

Yeah, that might be nice in Should Land. But we don't live in Should Land.

Waiting that long to make the anime simply doesn't make sense from a business perspective. You risk the manga loosing steam. It happens a lot. Shaman King being a famous example.

With just the manga, all they're getting is volume sales. Make an anime and suddenly you have Video Games, DVD sales, plushies, action figures, models, posters, wall scrolls, CDs, etc. Its a pretty obvious decision to make.

And if you wait too long, then maybe the series has a 'been here, done that' kind of feeling.

As far as taking breaks, that would work in America. Problem is, Japan isn't America. Over here, you produce the show, sell it to the network, and further seasons are purchased if the show is succesful. The network then comes up with a place to play it.

In Japan, its different. The studio pays the network to air the show, essentially buying the timeslot. If you lose the timeslot, you're probably not getting it back(Digimon managed it only because it was replaced by another Toei show to begin with). While it could happen if the replacement show was a short series(26 episodes or so), consider this.

Around the time the Naruto fillers started, several new anime were starting, including Eyeshield 21 and MAR(well, it was a difference of about 2 months, but work with me here).

Say they took your advice and took a break with Naruto. One of those shows swoops in to take the timeslot. Now in the fall when they want to bring Naruto back, the timeslot is already taken. While Studio Pierrot can certainly get a new timeslot, it won't be the one they had(which will result in a temporary ratings decline while not everyone is aware of the new timeslot, not to mention layoff from a 6 month break or so), and it might not be as good a timeslot, either.

And honestly, if American companies thought they could produce 50 or so episodes a year without dramatically increasing the cost of production, I think they would be doing it, too.

[Chris Wood]

I understand. But in syndication you used to get 5 episodes a week for 13 weeks. I don't know if any series still work that way.

[Scirel]

Yeah, that might be nice in Should Land. But we don't live in Should Land.

Waiting that long to make the anime simply doesn't make sense from a business perspective. You risk the manga loosing steam. It happens a lot. Shaman King being a famous example.

With just the manga, all they're getting is volume sales. Make an anime and suddenly you have Video Games, DVD sales, plushies, action figures, models, posters, wall scrolls, CDs, etc. Its a pretty obvious decision to make.

And if you wait too long, then maybe the series has a 'been here, done that' kind of feeling.

As far as taking breaks, that would work in America. Problem is, Japan isn't America. Over here, you produce the show, sell it to the network, and further seasons are purchased if the show is succesful. The network then comes up with a place to play it.

In Japan, its different. The studio pays the network to air the show, essentially buying the timeslot. If you lose the timeslot, you're probably not getting it back(Digimon managed it only because it was replaced by another Toei show to begin with). While it could happen if the replacement show was a short series(26 episodes or so), consider this.

Around the time the Naruto fillers started, several new anime were starting, including Eyeshield 21 and MAR(well, it was a difference of about 2 months, but work with me here).

Say they took your advice and took a break with Naruto. One of those shows swoops in to take the timeslot. Now in the fall when they want to bring Naruto back, the timeslot is already taken. While Studio Pierrot can certainly get a new timeslot, it won't be the one they had(which will result in a temporary ratings decline while not everyone is aware of the new timeslot, not to mention layoff from a 6 month break or so), and it might not be as good a timeslot, either.

And honestly, if American companies thought they could produce 50 or so episodes a year without dramatically increasing the cost of production, I think they would be doing it, too.


But you're forgetting one posibility. Why not simply air reruns between season in the same timeslot? For a hugely profitable series like naruto, it could take it.

[KuwabaraTheMan]

But you're forgetting one posibility. Why not simply air reruns between season in the same timeslot? For a hugely profitable series like naruto, it could take it.

I actually meant to adress that in my inital post, but forgot to.

It makes no sense, from the exec's point of view. If you're paying good money for that timeslot, it makes more sense to premiere new stuff. New episodes that can be put on DVD, new openings that you can release CDs of, new characters that can get merchandise, etc.

While the creative staff would be more than happy to spend those 6 months working on making higher quality episodes, the studio wouldn't want to be paying the same amount of money to just air reruns, would they? It doesn't make sense, from a business perspective.

[Chris Wood]

In Japan, its different. The studio pays the network to air the show, essentially buying the timeslot.

??? Really? So the network collects from both the studio and the advertisers? How is that a good deal for the studio? The networks must be rolling in cash.

[KuwabaraTheMan]

??? Really? So the network collects from both the studio and the advertisers? How is that a good deal for the studio? The networks must be rolling in cash.

I believe the studio's make their money back from all the DVDs(much more expensive in Japan, since it can often be in the range of $40 for just 3 episodes) and other merchandising.

However they get al their money, they certainly don't seem to be hurting.

[Duke]

But you're forgetting one posibility. Why not simply air reruns between season in the same timeslot? For a hugely profitable series like naruto, it could take it.
Reruns are what cable networks are for. Broadcast networks are used for premiere episodes.

[Rob_TF]

Naruto has reruns on TV-Tokyo every Tuesday at 5:30 PM GMT+9, just before D.Gray-man comes on at 6.

[AstroNerdBoy]

There are no 52-episode seasons in Japan that I'm aware of. 12, 13, 24, and 26, yes (with some exceptions of course). Even in Japan, long-running titles will go on hiatus for a short period of time (2-3 weeks). So I know of no anime that puts out a new episode every week without fail (doesn't mean there isn't one, I'm just unaware of it there is one).

Still, with very popular titles (Inuyasha, Naruto, One Piece, Dragon Ball (any), etc.), the Japanese sponsors want to milk the cow, which is a normal thing. So, you do get high episode counts for the series (which are multi-seasoned of course) with lots of filler once the episodes catch up to the source material.

Of course there's the other side of the coin. Take a popular series like Full Metal Panic, which is based off the popular light novels and short story collections by Gatou-sensei. Initially, Gonzo produced a TV anime based on the first novels and short stories (with some filler of thier own). Now for whatever reason, they were not part of the sequel series, but Kyoto was. After a year, they produced the 2nd series Fumoffu (based off the comedy short stories) and they too added their own stuff (one story Gatou-sensei liked so much, he added it to one of his short story collections). Two years after that, they produced The Second Raid.

There's enough short story material to produce another comedy sequel. There are three light novels (I have to check if a new one has been released) that haven't been made into anime form. So if Kyoto wanted (and the sponsors agree), they could proceed with another FMP title.

Then there's Fruits Basket. The anime was very successful in Japan and based off the successful manga. For whatever reasons, the sponsors never asked to have a sequel produced. Further, Daichi felt he told the story he wanted to tell and didn't see a need to do a sequel (and that may be the reason why Takaya-sensei was not happy with his adaptation of the manga). Despite FUNimation's attempt to convince the Japanese to do another series (for which they had ample manga materials to use), the Japanese refused.

My point is that how the Japanese handle an anime title very much depends
on the series, the production company, the sponsors, and the manga-ka (assuming the title is based on a manga).

[J'onn J'onzz]

There are no 52-episode seasons in Japan that I'm aware of.

Uh... almost every Gundam series is 49-52 episodes. Eureka Seven is around 52 also. Saiyuki is two episodes short of 52. I can't think of any that are EXACTLY 52, but still... there are some series that are pretty close to it.

Also, why would they put reruns on? At least in the states, anime reruns seem to do nowhere near as well in the ratings as premiers (see One Piece, Naruto, Zatch Bell, Yu Yu Hakusho, etc. DBZ being an exception.)

Sure, Japanese TV is quite a bit different from U.S. TV, but I imagine they would also get sick of seeing the same thing over and over. Also, you risk losing part of your audience that doesn't want to watch the reruns if you don't heavily promote new episodes of the show.

Really, it'd be annoying for anime to randomly have a month off for reruns like U.S. animation does so often.

[Duke]

Also, why would they put reruns on? At least in the states, anime reruns seem to do nowhere near as well in the ratings as premiers (see One Piece, Naruto, Zatch Bell, Yu Yu Hakusho, etc. DBZ being an exception.)
Screw anime rerun ratings, broadcast rerun ratings aren't nearly as strong as premiere episodes. You look at the ratings for CSI and pretty much the only times the reruns do well are when a) TV networks themselves are in a down period, or b) there's not much else competing against it.

[Zeonic Freak]

I'm not impressed with 52 episodes. U.S. series used to be 65 episodes.

Like how Robotech was... which they needed two more series to make up the 65... Mesopeda and Southern Cross

[Golgo13]

Some shows in America still do this depending on marketing and the size of the studio. I remember that Kids Next Store had an episode order of something like 80 episodes right off the bat.

[Karl Olson]

Some shows in America still do this depending on marketing and the size of the studio. I remember that Kids Next Store had an episode order of something like 80 episodes right off the bat.

Nope, KND gradually was picked up for more and more episodes. They had an initial order of 13 or 26 (I can't recall which,) then was gradually picked up for another 13 every year or two until it maxxed out at 78 + movie.

[Vallen Valiant]

??? Really? So the network collects from both the studio and the advertisers? How is that a good deal for the studio? The networks must be rolling in cash.
If you really think about it, the anime studios and advertisers aren't that different to a Japanese network's eyes; both have a product that needs public exposure to sell, and they both relied on TV to do it. The only difference is the anime studios pay for 20 minute blocks...
(This puts the joke that Gundam series are just Model-kit commercials into perspective, doesn't it?)

Since an anime studio loses money every-time they put something on air, they had to make the money back any way they can. Hence the merchandise-milking. Selling the show to Americans is also a big part of it these days too.:D

[Golgo13]

Now that I think about it, Japanese networks milk their sponsors more than America. Think about how many anime series in the past decade that had advertisements inserted in the opening. I can remember this was the case with shows like Cyborg 009 and Cromartie High.

[Freedom Fighter]

Now that I think about it, Japanese networks milk their sponsors more than America. Think about how many anime series in the past decade that had advertisements inserted in the opening. I can remember this was the case with shows like Cyborg 009 and Cromartie High.Which doesn't work in America since there is a rule against direct advertising in a show AND a rule against running an advertisement for a product from that show during the half hour the show is actually airing.

[Duke]

Are you sure there is a rule against direct advertising? I mean, I see "This show is brought to you by [Insert sponsors here]" all the time on television. The only difference between this and anime sponsors is that they're placed after the opening/ending, whereas American shows have them going to or coming back from commercial break.

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Are you sure there is a rule against direct advertising? I mean, I see "This show is brought to you by [Insert sponsors here]" all the time on television. The only difference between this and anime sponsors is that they're placed after the opening/ending, whereas American shows have them going to or coming back from commercial break.

I'd assume it only applies to kids shows, just like the rule against airing advertisements for products related to the show only applies to shows targetted at kids(which is why they can air ads for Survivor merchandise during Survivor, for example).

[Tash]

This pretty much seems to be what they're doing with Haruhi and Tsubasa.
The thing is, Haruhi easily had enough material for 39 episodes. It seems to me that they weren't completely sure if the series was going to be a success, and given the apparent price of the animation, they didn't want to risk any more than 14 episodes.

[Vallen Valiant]

The thing is, Haruhi easily had enough material for 39 episodes. It seems to me that they weren't completely sure if the series was going to be a success, and given the apparent price of the animation, they didn't want to risk any more than 14 episodes.
Well, there was also the fact that Kyoto Animation hadn't tackled anything longer than ~13 episodes at that time. (They have now, with the Kanon remake.)

But you are right about the uncertainty; There was minimal publicity for the TV series until the fanbase grew so large that publicity events had to be planned to accommodate demands. There was an obviously delay between the series' rise in popularity and the appearance of related merchandise, suggesting strongly that the organisers were caught on the back-foot.

Anyway, there is a MAJOR difference between episodes of Haruhi and episodes of Naruto, and that is the time slot. As was previously mentioned by KuwabaraTheMan, for Naruto to take a break from being on air means risking losing the timeslot for an indeterminate period of time, possibly forever. This is BAD, because series like Naruto are put on Japanese Prime Time, a hotly contested timeslot.

On the other hand, shows like Fullmetal Panic, Haruhi, and the like are given midnight timeslots. There is always plenty of room, and as such sequels of these shows can fit back onto TV whenever the Studio feel appropriate. Further, the target would be actual anime fans rather than casual viewers, so it didn't really matter if the second/third/etc season of a series isn't put in the same timeslot as the original. The fans would find the show schedule from the numerous anime news sources beforehand.

[Ultra8]

I alway's learn something new/or interesting about the Japanese tv networks when I read a thread like this.
I knew about the timeslots scarecity from an incident during Ultraman Cosmos' run but never really thought about the business stand point of it. I mean missing an episode an not getting a rerun can be really annoying, but they do release it on video/dvd for rent or sale which is much better compared to the US way of doing things.

[Space Cadet]

I mean missing an episode an not getting a rerun can be really annoying, but they do release it on video/dvd for rent or sale which is much better compared to the US way of doing things.

Wait, doesn't the US way do the same thing?

[Gokou Ruri]

Wait, doesn't the US way do the same thing? Our DVDs also don't cost an arm and a leg like Japan's (40 bucks for 3 episodes? Sheesh...)

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Our DVDs also don't cost an arm and a leg like Japan's (40 bucks for 3 episodes? Sheesh...)

Well it varies from series to series, although OVAs are generally more expensive.

Japanese DVDs are very expensive, though, there's no denying that.

[RAINMAN]

This is why I like how the US order a set number for their show a year,over japan making 52 eps a year which will lead them to making bad fillers which would lead to bad rantings.

[Vallen Valiant]

This is why I like how the US order a set number for their show a year,over japan making 52 eps a year which will lead them to making bad fillers which would lead to bad rantings.
Actually, they DON'T get bad ratings. Naruto stayed in the top ten thus far even after more than a year of fillers. The fillers would have probably ended earlier if the ratings had dropped sharply... which it didn't. This only encourages them; after all, if you can still rate well showing bad episodes, why make the effort producing good ones until you had to?

And if the Japanese studios order their shows like the Americans, there would be far less anime right now. Shows like Haruhi and Full Metal Panic would not exist, as they are not profitable enough for a TV station due to limited audience.

In fact, list all your favorite anime that were not on Japanese Prime-time, and I would be certain most of them would never exist at all under the American system.

For that matter, this means all that the American system get in return from having no fillers, is reruns instead. Either way, you are not getting new content, so I fail to see how the American system would be inherently superior.

[RAINMAN]

Actually, they DON'T get bad ratings. Naruto stayed in the top ten thus far even after more than a year of fillers. The fillers would have probably ended earlier if the ratings had dropped sharply... which it didn't. This only encourages them; after all, if you can still rate well showing bad episodes, why make the effort producing good ones until you had to?

And if the Japanese studios order their shows like the Americans, there would be far less anime right now. Shows like Haruhi and Full Metal Panic would not exist, as they are not profitable enough for a TV station due to limited audience.

In fact, list all your favorite anime that were not on Japanese Prime-time, and I would be certain most of them would never exist at all under the American system.

For that matter, this means all that the American system get in return from having no fillers, is reruns instead. Either way, you are not getting new content, so I fail to see how the American system would be inherently superior.


It better because I don`t have to put up whit too many awful bad fillers like garlic jr. And sense the US take brakes it gives them more time to come up whit good eps and not rush them like they do in japan. And unless I heard wrong didn`t kenshin get canned due to bad fillers causeing bad rantings?

[Gokou Ruri]

Either way, you are not getting new content, so I fail to see how the American system would be inherently superior. Patience is something everyone can learn. I find taking a show off for awhile much better than stretching out each episode to the max (any long-running shounen, pretty much). I don't mind anime-only content, it's just for some reason unless it's totally derailed from the manga (FMA) it just comes off as cheap and uneventful because they don't want to damage their precious status-quo (the only anime I've seen make filler into important stuff for the storyline is Yu-Gi-Oh) Instead of having 5 episodes of shounen hero fighting shounen badguy to stretch it out for the author to write more, you just wait til he finishes an arc, then make the fight one episode with much better animation and choreography. It would also improve the overall polish of the series. If Zabuza arc was a 13 episode season instead of 19, we wouldn't have gotten all those recaps, flashbacks, stare-downs, and long camera pans. Plus, reruns are great if you miss an episode. I know I'd hate to have to go buy a 80 dollar DVD set just because I missed one episode of Heroes.

Also, think about if you just got into a show halfway through it's run (like I did with Prison Break and went back and bought the DVDs before watching the new season) Would you rather watch 26 episodes of a smoothly-paced series, or 70 episodes of a stretched out series that could easily have been 26 episodes? Any novelty or advantage of stretching a show out so there's no breaks is pointless when you release it to video, in fact it hurts it because you have to buy more.

I'd hate for American TV to use the Japanese system. Who knows what kind of stuff would be on Heroes right now during it's hiatus, or 24. Comedy shows probably wouldn't suffer as much (like Spongebob), but shows that rely on a storyline and plot really shouldn't be subjected to stuff like that.

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Patience is something everyone can learn. I find taking a show off for awhile much better than stretching out each episode to the max (any long-running shounen, pretty much). I don't mind anime-only content, it's just for some reason unless it's totally derailed from the manga (FMA) it just comes off as cheap and uneventful because they don't want to damage their precious status-quo (the only anime I've seen make filler into important stuff for the storyline is Yu-Gi-Oh)

Prince of Tennis and Bleach both did pretty good, as well. Eyeshield 21 has been doing great, so far.

And Hunter x Hunter is second to none in this regard.

Honestly, Yu-Gi-Oh! had some pretty bad filler. I mean, not One Piece bad, but that whole arc in between Battle Ship and Alcatraz was stupid, and way too long.

Instead of having 5 episodes of shounen hero fighting shounen badguy to stretch it out for the author to write more, you just wait til he finishes an arc, then make the fight one episode with much better animation and choreography. It would also improve the overall polish of the series. If Zabuza arc was a 13 episode season instead of 19, we wouldn't have gotten all those recaps, flashbacks, stare-downs, and long camera pans. Plus, reruns are great if you miss an episode. I know I'd hate to have to go buy a 80 dollar DVD set just because I missed one episode of Heroes.

Perhaps, but the longer you wait, the greater the chance that popularity wanes.

Additionally, when done right, an anime can enhance the story a lot. Look at Hunter x Hunter for example. Many characters in the manga who barely got any development become more interesting in the anime, and some of the new story points added really enhance the overall series.

Prince of Tennis and Eyeshield are similar at times.


Also, think about if you just got into a show halfway through it's run (like I did with Prison Break and went back and bought the DVDs before watching the new season) Would you rather watch 26 episodes of a smoothly-paced series, or 70 episodes of a stretched out series that could easily have been 26 episodes? Any novelty or advantage of stretching a show out so there's no breaks is pointless when you release it to video, in fact it hurts it because you have to buy more.

If the episodes are horribly paced that's one thing, but I think you overexaggerate it. Sure, Naruto and other Shounen series could be better paced, but I'd say it's more taking 70 episodes to do what could be done in maybe 52 or so.

I'd like to see more shows do what One Piece does maybe, and take a few extra off weeks. It helps prevent too many filler arcs from having to be made, when they do that.


I'd hate for American TV to use the Japanese system. Who knows what kind of stuff would be on Heroes right now during it's hiatus, or 24. Comedy shows probably wouldn't suffer as much (like Spongebob), but shows that rely on a storyline and plot really shouldn't be subjected to stuff like that.

If you know you're going to have the number of episodes, you can pace yourself better. Hire more writers, come up with more interesting sub plots.

[Gary L Thompson]

Also, why would they put reruns on? At least in the states, anime reruns seem to do nowhere near as well in the ratings as premiers (see One Piece, Naruto, Zatch Bell, Yu Yu Hakusho, etc. DBZ being an exception.)

Sure, Japanese TV is quite a bit different from U.S. TV, but I imagine they would also get sick of seeing the same thing over and over.

That's why there used to be an absolute minimun of 65 shows available for stripping over weekday rerunning (actually 100 was the ideal minimun), and 260 episodes was regarded as nirvana for rerunning. If your viewers don't see any one episode more than once or twice a year, they're not going to get tired of the series. Even three or four times a year you can get away with if you're regularly rotating several series in and out of your weekday slots.

However, the American trend of late seems to be to run shows into the ground with repeats, particularly cartoons. Even shows that have ideal episode count to be weekday evergreens under the old standards, with 200-300-400 episodes, tend to get their episodes dribbled in only small batches at one time. Why this is, I have no idea.


If you really think about it, the anime studios and advertisers aren't that different to a Japanese network's eyes; both have a product that needs public exposure to sell, and they both relied on TV to do it. The only difference is the anime studios pay for 20 minute blocks...
(This puts the joke that Gundam series are just Model-kit commercials into perspective, doesn't it?)

Since an anime studio loses money every-time they put something on air, they had to make the money back any way they can. Hence the merchandise-milking. Selling the show to Americans is also a big part of it these days too.:D

Actually, that's pretty much the business model behind Fox Box/4 Kids TV, if you think of it. 4Kids buys Saturday AM slots from Fox for its kids network, and 4Kids is not really concerned about TV ratings and advertising, their real revenue is supposed to be the mountains of merchandizing they move with their shows (since 4Kids orginated more as a company to license merchandize than a TV producer, this would be a natural approach to them).

The problem is that their recent network acquisitions have been so inept, that they aren't moving any merchandise, from what I hear.

[Ultra8]

Wait, doesn't the US way do the same thing?

Not really. Popular/or new stuff yes, but alot of older stuff is just now getting their 1st video/dvd releases. I'm still waiting for John Doe or Keen Eddie on dvd.