Legacy

[The Green Hornet]

I just have the very distinct pleasure of watching Legacy 1+2 from the Superman series (the only eps i had not seen)


Talk about intense-- the aquaman episode of JL is the teletubbies compared to the intensity and emotion of Legacy


my mind is still reeling from the sheer awesomeness of this episode-- from the writing to the animation to the voice acting
supermans remembering of Darkseids murder of Dan Turpin and his longstanding desire to avenge him

ive never seen superman so savage, so human, and yet in the end he conquered these darker parts of himself to rise up as an icon of the best parts of humanity

this episode reminded me of why I thought the Superman series lorded over the batman series in every way (and i REALLY liked the batman series)

wow wow wow

if JL begins making episodes like this it will be enshrined as one of the (if not THE best) animated series ever

just had to get this off of my chest

wow

[austin norsworthy]

I just saw legacy. {spoilers} and it was as good as they say! superman with normal human streng breaking luthor's neck, supes smasing the crap out of darkseid's thugs, and superman and darkseid pounding the snot out of eachother! and lois and supes kissing. the "I am god" secen wasn't as disturping as people say, but Since I already read up on it... Superman had a great ending! hamilton IS a jerk in this ep.

[The Green Hornet]

SPOILERS


i couldnt believe he VAPORIZED those parademons with his heat-vision

[King Ryan7708]

crap, I forgot to watch that tonight, I loved that episode!

[Apache Chief]

Feh. Para-Demons are a dime a dozen. Superman kiled some aliens in the JL pilot didn't he? Anyway - fantastic episode. But I really liked Out of the Past too. I was like watching Superman II in 40 minutes. And no goofy powers at the end! (Although I always loved the "Giant Sticky Insignia Trap" power.)

[Failure]

I hadn't seen Legacy in a long while, I forgot about the many great things about this episode. Talk about chills, Legacy had a chill factor of 11 and then some. The dialogue was great, I finally saw Paradise Lost earlier today, and I'm beginning to see how the absence of Dini has affected the writing. In addition to Darkseid's final line about being a god, I loved Superman's line to Supergirl "You wear my shielld and stand against me? Then die." The delivery was great, cold & heartless. I don't mind Newburn, but Tim Daly was really something. And overall, I don't remember any lines being hoaky or anything like that.

I also liked how they weaved in a bit of comedy, like when "Clark" was fighting with the hot dog.

And I really liked the shadowing when Dr. Hamilton was crouched against the wall. You could almost feel the fear Hamilton was feeling. And that lead to another great line by Supes about Hamilton never trusting him again.

I guess if I had any complaints, it would only be that some other heroes like batman should've shown up at the scene while Superman was rogue. Other than that it was truly magnificent. If only STAS went for one more season, it would've been intriguing as heck.

I'd love if they came out with STAS on DVD one day, but I wouldnt mind if we only got all the Darkseid episodes on 1 DVD either.

[Failure]

Oh yeah, one more thing. At the end when they're interviewing people on whether Superman was friend or foe. Did anyone see the first guy they interviewed? Looked like a city worker. Was it just me or did he look like the same guy who complained about Terry in BB's Babel?

[James Harvey]

Good eye, Failure - it is! The reason for that is becuase the shows (Batman, Superman, Batman Beyond, Justice League) all use the same background characrter models, and reuse them in each series. That's why characters seem to repeat themselves quite a bit throughou all the series.

Anywho, one of my favorite moment sis when Superman breaks Luthor's jaw and sprains his neck. I just loved seeing that. It is something that every fan wants, but know can never happen becuase of Superman's strenght. I thoight it was the best punch Superman has possible ever thrown. So awesome!

And the fist fight between Superman and Darkseid was intense. Granted, they shrunk down Darkseid a bit, but it worked so great. To see those two titans going mano-o-mano was just amazing. Bruce Timm did a beautiful job storyboarding that sequence.

And it's funny you mention the DVD thing. A few years back Dini was trying to convince WB to release the "Apokolips Saga" on VHS. Dini wanted all eight episodes (Tools of the Trade, Father's Day, Apokolips...Now!, Little Girl Lost, and Legacy) in one set.

[DCDave12]

Yeah this had to be the best episode in all the different series, I wish I knew it was going to be on I would have taped both parts. Despite what happened in JL with the Aliens in "Secret Origins" it's still quite chilling seeing Superman vaporize the para-demons.

[peterparker05]

Originally posted by Jim Harvey

And it's funny you mention the DVD thing. A few years back Dini was trying to convince WB to release the "Apokolips Saga" on VHS. Dini wanted all eight episodes (Tools of the Trade, Father's Day, Apokolips...Now!, Little Girl Lost, and Legacy) in one set.

That would have to be the greatest VHS collection of Dini/Timm animation ever released, blowing those old Batman collections out of the water.

[Batman 80]

This storyline should win some kind of award. It was intense and very well done. It was sad to see Superman not being trusted by the public.

[GL2k2]

This episode is why I still put Superman above Justice League. They should have went back to basics with Justice League, the coloring and everything else is just years away from STAS. The art is terrific in Superman. I have the series on tape, but seeing it in crisp on-air animation is wonderful. I really hope they release the series on DVD. But we have to wait a couple of years until BTAS is finished with 5 eps a disc. Hopefully they'll put the entire first season on DVD.

[Failure]

Originally posted by Jim Harvey
Good eye, Failure - it is! The reason for that is becuase the shows (Batman, Superman, Batman Beyond, Justice League) all use the same background characrter models, and reuse them in each series. That's why characters seem to repeat themselves quite a bit throughou all the series.

Either that or someone besides Ra's has been hitting the Lazarus Pits. :) It's pretty cool to see recurring characters though, even if they're recurring in a kind of random way.



And it's funny you mention the DVD thing. A few years back Dini was trying to convince WB to release the "Apokolips Saga" on VHS. Dini wanted all eight episodes (Tools of the Trade, Father's Day, Apokolips...Now!, Little Girl Lost, and Legacy) in one set.

Geez, that would've been great. Too bad it didnt pan out. Hopefully the successes of the BTAS/JL/BB DVDs will get WB moving on releasing some STAS eps on DVD.

[Terminatah]

Here's something I noticed. In Father's Day, both Darkseid and Kalibak speak with digitally enhanced voices to make them sound more godly. But in this episode, Darkseid spoke with Michael Ironside's regular voice (it may have been the same case with Kalibak, I can't remember whether he spoke or not). Why did they do this? Did Michael Ironside request it for better recognition?

-Terminatah

[The Green Hornet]

i MUCH prefer the Apokalips NOW and Legacy Voices to the Fathers day voices

the digital effect (added bass) made it a little more muddled-- i kinda like the more whispery ironside voice

makes him sound much cooler and more like an all-knowing fiend

[Zoddman]

It's too bad "Jack Kiby's New Gods" didn't pan out as a miniseries or tv series. I would've been in heaven. Ironside's Darkseid was absolutely awesome. He did the complicated character of darkseid justice.

[Cosmocat]

if JL begins making episodes like this it will be enshrined as one of the (if not THE best) animated series ever

just had to get this off of my chest

wow [/B][/QUOTE]

JL's got a LOOOONG way to go before it gets that good. They've gotta figure out how to handle all those characters, for one thing...

[Karkull]

I'm not trying to start a flame war or anything, but I still think that the episode was awful. It had its good points (Superman hitting Luthor, the Female Furies taking advantage of Superman) but overall I wasn't impressed.

[JL Man]

The one thing I like about STAS better than BTAS is that Superman has a definite ending.

[James Harvey]

I gotta agree with ya, JL Man. I like how we have an ending. We never got a firm ending with BTAS or Batman Beyond (unless you count ROTJ as 'the ending') and this one provided us with one. It's a bold way to end the series, although would've been a better way to start the fourth season that never was.

[Houman]

Can someone tell me how Dan Turpin was killed by Darkseid, I didn't see the episode? Also, why were those subtitles in Spanish? :confused:

[James Harvey]

At the end of Apokolips...Now! Part 2, Dan Turpin is telling Darkseid and his crew to 'never come back' as Darkseid is leaving the planet via Boom Tube (becuase the New Gods appeared and forced Darkseid to back down). Darkseid looks over to Superman, tells him victory has it's price, and then kills Turpin with his eyeblasts - atomizing him in a flash.

[Livewire]

Originally posted by Failure
I guess if I had any complaints, it would only be that some other heroes like batman should've shown up at the scene while Superman was rogue. Other than that it was truly magnificent. If only STAS went for one more season, it would've been intriguing as heck.





Nah. I'm glad they didn't include any other heroes. Imo, it just wouldn't have worked. It would have taken too much away from the real story. Superman had to handle this on his own. As for when he went rouge..well, Lex and General Hardcastle took care of that matter.

All in all, a wonderful episode, and I become quite upset :mad: when I think of all that could have happened in the fourth season, but was never to be. :(

[TheScarecrow]

Legacy and the way it ended is one of the things that made this animated show better then Lois and Clark in all respects.

Just a great way to end the series.

[Supernovametalstar]

I've had this little theory going on for a while pertaining to Dan Turpin's death. I think he wasn't killed at all. We've seen several times on the show that Darkseid's eye beam can transport people to different places (Calabrac, the head of Intergang, etc), so he could have sent Turpin to a slave pit or somewhere and just bluffed that he killed him just to spite Superman and get him angry.

[Terminatah]

Originally posted by Supernovametalstar
I've had this little theory going on for a while pertaining to Dan Turpin's death. I think he wasn't killed at all. We've seen several times on the show that Darkseid's eye beam can transport people to different places (Calabrac, the head of Intergang, etc), so he could have sent Turpin to a slave pit or somewhere and just bluffed that he killed him just to spite Superman and get him angry. What reason does he have not to kill him?

-Terminatah

[James Harvey]

Dini and Timm said that Turpin was killed, and is never to return. They originally planned to kill Ma & Pa Kent at the end of Apokolips...Now, but the brass at DC Comics was able to convince them out of it, settling for killing off Turpin.

[Joe Wagner]

I would have to say that this is probably my favorite set of Superman episodes. I remember watching it the first time and being totally blown away. I can't wait for Dearkseid's upcoming appearance in JL. I guess that there will be hints at Superman and Darkseid's 'falling out' if you will. If they put those episodes together as a full out brawl between the Justice League and the warriors of Apokolips then we've got a real treat for us in the near future. As for the show ending this way, I was extremely disappointed when Kids WB cancelled the show - if nothing else the fourth season would have been amazing, even to see how Superman reacted to being disliked by a lot of earths population.

-Joe!

[Supernovametalstar]

Originally posted by Terminatah
What reason does he have not to kill him?

-Terminatah

Ever since I saw Morph come back in the Fox X-men, I had this feeling that any character that "dies" in battle doesn't really die, so they can be brought back later. It transferred over into Superman when I watched the scene again months later. But since it's been noted that the writers themselves said Turpin was dead, then I guess he's dead. And ya know what? I'm glad it stayed that way. It's the only North American animated show that I can recall, that had a recurring character die and stay dead.

[Randy H]

I have to agree with you guys on Legacy. The Apokolips Octology was the best set of episodes the WB crew has produced. Over the Edge (TNBA ep) is probably better than the first couple Darkseid shows on their own, but as a series, nothing beats those episodes.

I also have to say I really enjoyed the change in Darkseid's voice during the later episodes. The added bass made Darkseid seem like a simple dictator, where Ironside's voice has a raspy, very sinister side that really adds a new level of dimension to the character. It shows he is keenly of the evil nature of his actions, and thoroughly enjoys it. The earlier voice seemed more like a strong thug who just doesn't know how to do anything else.

I remember being completely blown away during Apokolips...Now!, and I couldn't believe how incredible Legacy was.

Thanks to all the CN viewers who voted for Supes in the latest poll!


I have only one complaint. I wanted KidsWB to have a Superman-themed day and air all eight Darkseid episodes in order as a mini-series, concluding with the premiere of Legacy.

Hopefully WB will release the STAS series on DVD soon. While I'd really like the episodes released in order, I'd be thrilled to get a "Kirby Edition" STAS DVD with those eight shows together. And you HAVE to do an audio commentary for each episode. I wanna' know everything about those shows.

On a side note, does anyone else remember the original ending for Apokolips...Now!? Originally, the funeral scene showed Lex, Mercy, and a number of incorrectly drawn background characters. KWB aired the ending once, then sent the episode back to be redone so the background characters would represent their real life counterparts. Faces included are Bruce Timm & Paul Dini. I'm not sure who the others are, but I believe most of them are WB staffers who wanted to pay homage to Jack Kirby by attending Turpin's funeral. For those who don't know, Turpin was a caricature of Jack Kirby, who created Darkseid.

Later,
Randy H