Why is Superman so weak?

[Mr. Mxyzptlk]

It was annoying enough in SAS but now in JL Superman is being easily stopped by things that should barely bother him, especially if they are things that just barely knock out other League members. He was, at least, able to stand up to a Manhunter's staff blast but in the very next minute the same blast that knocked down the Flash knocked Superman down as well. Come on!!! Maybe the writers aren't imaginative enough at Warner Brothers to come up with something that would rerally challenge someone with Superman's power level. That manhole cover that knocked him out with electricity should have reduced anyone else to dust.

[the green flashlight]

Maybe you are thinking about it backward. Maybe it is not that Superman is weaker but rather that the weapon is stronger. How do we know how strong something is.

Also, They can't have Superman be all powerful. If he were more powerful and couldn't be hurt, people would probably complain that he is too powerful. It makes a villian more menacing if we know that he can be hurt as well. It's better if he can be hurt by somethings other than Kryptonite, otherwise we would be seeing the Kryptonite plot device being used constantly.

Besides he's still Super.

He can fly, he can fight and he can crow. I mean...whoops, wrong guy ;)

[Mr. Mxyzptlk]

Cartoon Network just showed the episodes with the Kryptonian villians. Mala shrugged off a speeding car like it never touched her. The car folded like paper. I will accept that. It's just wrong for Superman to be affected the same way other members of the League are by the same ray blasts or weapons. Wonder Woman or the Martian Manhunter might be nearly as durable and John Stewart's ring might protect him as well, but when it comes to sheer power Superman should outclass them. That is something of which the writers should be more aware.

[RorShaq]

"Also, They can't have Superman be all powerful. If he were more powerful and couldn't be hurt, people would probably complain that he is too powerful."

There's a world of difference between being all powerful and being knocked unconscious by an electric manhole cover. There's got to be some middle ground they can find. Nobody's saying that he should be able to shrug off anyproblem the show throws at him, but they should stop showing him having serious problems dealing with weapons every run of the mill thug or mercenary is carrying. I remembr in one episode of STAS, there was a cop who was outfitted in some sort of cyber-technology, completely earth based, and he was able to give Superman a run for his money. Now, If Luthor can create an army of armored cops each as powerful as Superman, what's the point? Adversaries that can actually harm the Man of Steel should be rarer, so that they are all the more menacing.

[Karkull]

Originally posted by RorShaq
[BNow, If Luthor can create an army of armored cops each as powerful as Superman, what's the point? Adversaries that can actually harm the Man of Steel should be rarer, so that they are all the more menacing. [/B]

If Superman doesn't face enemies that make him sweat, then what's the point of that?

Superman is still super, but one of the ongoing points that come up is that technology has caught up to the Man of Steel. There are weapons that can harm him--robots, Kryptonite lasers, and weapons that deliver electric shocks are just some of what he's endured. It doesn't make him less super when he gets knocked over, but it makes him more believable when he stands back up and takes care of business.

Besides, any other League member would have been seriously injured by that trap Deadshot rigged to that manhole cover. But it just barely fazed Superman. Think about it.

[TheScarecrow]

I like the fact that this modern-day animated Superman is weaker then the ones who could move plants out of orbit and turn back time and fly freely in space without the need for air to breathe. It's easier for me to root for him while still being amazed at the stuff he CAN do.

This Superman, IMO, is still powerful enough to be called super. He can still fly, he can still shoot lazers out of his eyes, and he is still strong enough to lift and hold stuff that no human being could ever do. More importantly, his heart and love for humanity and desire to do good is still just as powerful (or maybe even more so) then his superpowers, which really makes him a Superman in my book.

[Mr. Obsession]

Maybe I'm just one of the fans that actually likes the fact that they depowered Superman for his series. But the way I've always seen it is that Superman looks weak at times because he doesn't know the true extent of his abilities.

Think about it. In the animated series he didn't even know that he wasn't human until the middle of high school when suddenly he could start using abilities that he didn't know he even had. He's never had any real sort of training to use his abilities or fight. He learns as he goes along. And he does get gradually stronger as he ages under the influence of Earth's yellow sun.

I think that it takes a stronger opponent (from Supes view) to challenge him enough to actually bring his use of his powers to their true level, and use them more effectively.

For example, the first time Superman faced Darkseid, DS was able to knock Supes around without breaking a sweat. Sure Supes was getting back up as DS left but it was pretty apparent that DS could easily have easily given Superman the beating of his life. But by the time Supes faced DS at the end of Legacy Supes proved that he was more than a match for DS.


He was, at least, able to stand up to a Manhunter's staff blast but in the very next minute the same blast that knocked down the Flash knocked Superman down as well.Yep, after the Manhunter turned the weapons power up all the way. It took everything the Manhunter’s weapon had to take Superman down, and of course he did get back up a moment later.

[Harvey Dent]

To me, this Superman seems inconsistent in power and intellegence. He was smart enough to question the events surrounding John's trial in "In Blackest Night" regarding that planet he supposedly destroyed, yet it never occured to him to use X-Ray Vision to check and see if that manhole cover might be booby-trapped. And as far as the electricity goes, I don't buy it. It made sense when he fought Livewire is STAS, since she was pretty much pure energy. But some electrical device, that puts him out for a few minutes? Like I said before, inconsistent.

BTW, since when did Heat Vision become Laser Vision? :confused:

[DerekPowers]

i think superman does appear weaker in JL than in stas and the comics, and its starting to bother me. Superman should be having some awesome fights and challenges on this show, but instead its always too easy to take him down.

plus his personality has become more anoying, hes too much of a boyscout. stas sups was the perfect amount of toughness and kindness, but in jl hes way too wimpy. just my opinion though. peace.

[Failure]

My only complaint is Supes' power level inconsistency. But that seems to be a problem no matter where you look. Even Smallville has Clark struggling with some things he shouldnt and handling other things with ease.

Could it be possible that Superman appears to be weaker because he's surrounded by others who have similar power levels as him? Maybe having WW, MM in comparison make it look like Superman's weaker than he is.

[The Green Hornet]

I have figured out why supes appears so weak after STAS


in particular, after the events in LEGACY, Superman VOWED NEVER TO USE HIS FULL FORCE AGAIN

after seeing himself literally destroy ENTIRE WORLDS AND CIVILIZATIONS and almost

SPOILERS


kill darkseid in Legacy

Superman limits himself in a major way-- also as a way to try and gain back public trust and good favor


think about it

this answer works out so well if you follow continuity

another option is that the kryptonite missile fired at him in LEGACY put so much k-rad into him that it will be decades before he will be back at fullest strength

[Knight]

I have to say Supermans weak and I dont like it. The Superman in The Batman Beyond episode "The Call" is the best interpatation of how Supes should always be... super. He was lifting ships and holding up buildings. That is a Superman. No one said he has to move planets. But things like lifting trucks shouldnt be a sweat for the guy.

[Naraht]

Originally posted by RorShaq
"Also, They can't have Superman be all powerful. If he were more powerful and couldn't be hurt, people would probably complain that he is too powerful."

There's a world of difference between being all powerful and being knocked unconscious by an electric manhole cover. There's got to be some middle ground they can find. Nobody's saying that he should be able to shrug off anyproblem the show throws at him, but they should stop showing him having serious problems dealing with weapons every run of the mill thug or mercenary is carrying. I remembr in one episode of STAS, there was a cop who was outfitted in some sort of cyber-technology, completely earth based, and he was able to give Superman a run for his money. Now, If Luthor can create an army of armored cops each as powerful as Superman, what's the point? Adversaries that can actually harm the Man of Steel should be rarer, so that they are all the more menacing.

Well, the suit was an early version of Steel (John henry Irons helped build it)

also...Superman pulls his punches...he isn't going all out. He almost never goes all out.

Also...he doesn't know how to fight. Honestly. He grew up on a farm, lives in the big city...has super human strength...he doesn't need to know how to fight, so he hasn't really learned. you rarely if ever see him use more than one power at a time...cause it doesn't occur to him. At least that's how I see it.

As to getting knocked around....it doesn't hurt him per se..
sure he gets knocked back/over..but he isn't scratched, brused etc.

I dunno...I aint a big "MAN of STEEL" fan.

[Karkull]

Originally posted by Mr. Obsession
Think about it. In the animated series he didn't even know that he wasn't human until the middle of high school when suddenly he could start using abilities that he didn't know he even had. He's never had any real sort of training to use his abilities or fight. He learns as he goes along. And he does get gradually stronger as he ages under the influence of Earth's yellow sun.

We don't know that. There is a big gap of time between him leaving Smallville and going to Metropolis. Who knows what kind of training he got? Personally, I'm betting that he spent time in India or Tibet with some yogis in order to learn about that "precise muscle control" that he talked about in Knight Time.

[SimonMoon5]

Originally posted by the green flashlight
Maybe you are thinking about it backward. Maybe it is not that Superman is weaker but rather that the weapon is stronger. How do we know how strong something is.

This goes back to the "Worf syndrome" from Star Trek: TNG.

The writers tell us that Worf is a really awesome fighter. However, every enemy that Worf fights is supposed to be even, um, awesomer, so Worf always (and I mean Always) gets his butt kicked. So, we end up seeing a guy who loses every fight he's in. Does that sound like a really great fighter? He might be a great fighter, but we never get to see it, so he ends up seeming weak and pathetic.

That's the animated JL Superman.

Sure, Deadshot's electric manhole cover might have had the power to disintegrate whole planets, and only for that reason was it able to affect Superman. But, uh, I doubt it.

[The New Batman]

I agree, Superman does seem fairly weak, and George Newborn's voice is not Superman. He sound more like a diplomat. He doesn't show the emotions Tim Daly did and basically sounds like a coward :-/

[DerekPowers]

i wonder if timm and other people affiliated w/ jl read these posts and take advice from the fans here and there, cause if theyre listening, MAKE SUPERMAN STRONGER AND STOP MAKING HIM SUCH A SISSY!!!!! i want to see him have some seriously intense fights, like the fight between him and darkseid in legacy. that is what supes is all about.

i wonder if they actually read these boards. we know the static shock guys who wrote "the big leagues" do, but what about the jl people? anyone know?

[Batman 80]

I bet the Mongul vs. Superman fight will be intense. This episode should get people to stop complaining about Superman being whimpy.

[RorShaq]

I bet the Mongul vs. Superman fight will be intense. This episode should get people to stop complaining about Superman being whimpy.

Well, that partially illustrates the point I and others have been making. Let's say that it's an extremely intense battle that rages across Warworld, with a battered Superman finally emerging as the victor. In the back of my mind, I'll be thinking, so what? If Superman can't stop Mongul, they can just send in a swat team from earth with some of those laser or sonic guns that always seem to have Superman on the verge of death each time they're used against him. They've made Superman so weak that anyone who he can defeat can't really be considered an indomitable threat.

[Corran Horn]

Originally posted by SimonMoon5


This goes back to the "Worf syndrome" from Star Trek: TNG.

The writers tell us that Worf is a really awesome fighter. However, every enemy that Worf fights is supposed to be even, um, awesomer, so Worf always (and I mean Always) gets his butt kicked. So, we end up seeing a guy who loses every fight he's in. Does that sound like a really great fighter? He might be a great fighter, but we never get to see it, so he ends up seeming weak and pathetic.


My favorite one is where Worf usesa sword in 'Q-pid' to fight with Guy of Gisbourne. Pretty funny. He even gets injured.

While it's possible Superman may limit his powers (post Legacy) I'd think he'd do that only when it came to offense, such as punching people and throwing things around. Would he really limit it when it comes to his reaction time, or the amount laser/ray blasts effect him? I find that hard to believe.

I understand it when it comes to certain things. If he gets hit by a huge steamroller or a semi-truck, is he allowed to be knocked back a bit? Yes. Knocked off his feet? No.

I mean, I really couldn't believe it when he was manacled along with the others in 'Secret Origins' (I think). I couldn't understand why he couldn't just break through those bonds. Were they made of Kryptonite? Isn't that the only thing that can hurt/weaken Superman?

Just my two cents. (I didn't know Wonder Woman could fly, so what do I know?)

[metaphysician]

Originally posted by Corran Horn


My favorite one is where Worf usesa sword in 'Q-pid' to fight with Guy of Gisbourne. Pretty funny. He even gets injured.

While it's possible Superman may limit his powers (post Legacy) I'd think he'd do that only when it came to offense, such as punching people and throwing things around. Would he really limit it when it comes to his reaction time, or the amount laser/ray blasts effect him? I find that hard to believe.

I understand it when it comes to certain things. If he gets hit by a huge steamroller or a semi-truck, is he allowed to be knocked back a bit? Yes. Knocked off his feet? No.

I mean, I really couldn't believe it when he was manacled along with the others in 'Secret Origins' (I think). I couldn't understand why he couldn't just break through those bonds. Were they made of Kryptonite? Isn't that the only thing that can hurt/weaken Superman?

Just my two cents. (I didn't know Wonder Woman could fly, so what do I know?)

I think the point was the helm things, which seemed to completely disrupt conversation, and probably relax muscles, too. Between that and the fact that all Atlanteans are stronger than human, and those manacles would logically hold.

And, no, other things than Kryptonite can weaken or hurt him. Absence of yellow sunlight, or some kind of advanced tech gadget, can weaken him, and magic or ridiculously high firepower can hurt him.

[Luminous]

Didn't I (Luminus) have something to do with this in a S:TAS episode?? :)

Seriously, speaking of "de-powering", why does The Flash seem to consistently get the short-end of the stick? The possibilities with Super Speed are vast indeed.

I did like the way he tried to "multi-punch" Hades, why doesn't he do this against other villains??

Also, I was watching In Blackest Night again and noticed that Hawk Girl actually flew FASTER than The Flash was running! It's when he catches her from being thrown by the Manhunters. She says something ("Down boy", I think) in response to one of his flirtatious lines and she launches herself into the air and actually outpaces ol' Speedy. Now I realize that The Flash doesn't HAVE to run at full speed if he doesn't want to. But why wouldn't he want to get back to the scene of the disturbance as soon as possible?? He is a super hero after all. Just doesn't make sense!

[Stupendous Man]

Personally ...

I appreciate that Supermans powerlevels have been
kept reasonable.

I really never understand fans who want him to be
an unstoppable God.

You wanna read about god - go steal a bible.

I wanna read/see adventures of a man with cool powers.
And dammit - I wanna see him struggle a little .

JL is a team show, obviously you need there to be a reason
for the team.

Also dont confuse Superman bieng tossed around to bieng
weak. This is a matter of balance not strength or vulnerability.
Even trees with brances dug deep in the earth bend in the wind.

As far as I know supermans toes dont bury themselves in the floor where he stands - given enough force , even though he wont suffer injury Superman will be moved/ thrown / knocked down.

~

I will concede though that even though Supes should stay at his
current powerlevels - they should illustrate that he is still the most powerfull member of the team.

In other words , yeah let hades kick the crap out of Superman -
but make sure you show the fans that superman held his ground with Hades better than any of the other leaguers.

I think its because the show isnt doing a good job of differentiating Supermans strength from say ,that of Martian manhunter - thats why fans are becoming annoyed.

[Mr. Mxyzptlk]

I agree with an earlier post. Since Superman can barely hold his own against weapons devised by Metropolis SCU and other lesser challenges, the Earth isn't in any danger with or without the League. The next time Darkseid attacks SCU should be able to blast him back to Apokolips. No one wants Superman to be all powerful, but he was shrugging off electrical shocks of considerable magnitude in the comic strips in the 40's. The Superman in the Justice League is weaker than that. You actually made my point for me. No one else had any more trouble fighting Hades than Superman did.

[Stupendous Man]

I wouldnt say I made your point for you ...but rather that you missed the point altogether.

The point is that they dont have to make Superman stronger ...
just that they have to do a better job (in the writing) to illustrate how supermans power levels differ from say Martian Manhunter.

The problem seems to be that because they havent been entirely consistent with his powerlevels ...and because they havent given the fans a means of comparing and contrasting powerlevels - a fight between the league and Hades ( A GOD mind you) seems to lose all drama because all the characters seem to react to the attacks identically.

However if they showed you that martian manhunter took three god punches at hades and he smacks him aside without even a second thought .... then Wonder Woman does a kick and he flinches..steps back a bit .... then Superman comes take three good blows and you see Hades actually get knocked back a bit -
flinch and actually struggle to defend himself.

Well in this scenario ...even if hades kicked all their buts three times over - I think the fans would be satisfied.
Because as a fan if you see that Superman was the most successfull at fighting hades it lets you know - A) superman is more powerfull than all these guys and hes still having trouble.
B) Wonder Woman is much more powerfull than Martian Manhunter C) gives you a frame of comparison for all the heros
and future villans.

Because all the heros have the same effect on the villans and all the villans have the same effect on the heros - theres no drama.

I mean can you definitively say that a Manhunter is more Powerfull than Hades? Not really because neither villan was any more succesfull than the other (relatively).

[mbaker]

Good points. On the one side many people think that Superman is supose to be all powerful, but if they make him too powerful, the writers would have to use kryptonite in every episode. Plus you can't have any of the other members more powerful than he is. Superman was both tough, and nice at the same time in his own series. I have yet to see that in Justice Leauge.

[Mr. Mxyzptlk]

Again... Watch the episode... Superman fared no better than anyone else. That's how you made my point. And you did again.

[warmachine04]

This has got to be one of biggest topics that affects the show overall. Dont get me wrong. I dont want superman to be the invincible and unstoppable being from the "Superfreinds". I have two suggestion about this: either make supes stronger or WW weaker. Many people talked about the battle between Supes and WW in "Paradise Lost" as the highlight of the show but it wasn't so much for me. The scene with the firetruck was understandable since from that angle the truck would snap in two. He needed some one to hold the other side while he hold one of the firemen in his other hand.

The only episode that show off Supermans powers well will have to be "In Blackest Night". Many people have gave mixed reviews about it but at least the first part worked quite good for me. The way supes battle the manhunters on earth reminded me of the old STAS. There are rumors that in the upcoming episode "War World" we will see Superman on a more acceptable manner. :)

[Beyond Batman]

My roomates occasionally watch JL with me, and even THEY notice how Superman get's knocked off his feet so easily. Coming from non-fans, that raises some concern.

It's not too much the inconsistancy that bothers me about the JL Superman, but how easily he gets knocked around like a rag doll. Superman is a hard hitting character... he should be able, in return, to endure some hard hits. At least put up a longer lasting fight. I mean c'mon, it seems Terry McGuinnes (in the Bat Suit) has lasted longer and endured longer beatings than the JL Superman.

Getting hit by supernatural creatures or getting struck by highpowered weapons... sure, I'm sure they'd offer resistance against Superman, but the way Superman's been portrayed... he's almost like a "one-hit-wonder." One hit and he's down for the count. Seeing Superman get pimp slapped by Hades was so dissappointing.

I really hope they improve this aspect of the show.