Are the days of adult centric kid toons over?

[Antiyonder]

I'm not a disgruntled adult who's here to complain about cartoons of today sucking, but one thing that seems to be the rage in animation in the "troubled kids".

By adult centric, I don't mean mature content, but something other than kids trying to be popular or learning the meaning of friendships. Here's the only adult cartoons I can think of at the moment:

The Batman (It has younger characters, but does not go into tween mode often)
Spongebob Squarepants

Kid/Tween shows that are better than the rest (IMO):
X-Men Evoluton
Teen Titans
Kim Possible
Fairly Oddparents (Early episodes at least)
Danny Phantom
Superman And The Legion Of Super Heroes
Avatar The Last Airbender

Honorable mentions go to:
Recess
Weekenders

The Kid/Tween shows I've listed had for the most part good writing, and don't try to emulate live action tween sitcoms (or at least not so much). The problem with those sitcom, is that the main character is is a troubled kid who:

- Is obesessed with popularity.
- Is oblivious to the meaning of friendship.
- Think's that just because they have a few problems that their life is a mess.


Not all teens are down about their life, nor are all teens trouble.

Lloyd In Space for instance, struck me as more of Lizzie McGuire with the sci-fi elements to it.

Weekenders is a good example of a tween show done right, since it's simply about 4 friends enjoying the time between school. Ironically enough, when X-Men Evolution moved from the teen angst, to superheroing, the characters seemed more real to me in personality.

[tb4000]

Most cartoons on nowadays do focus on kids, which is a little too cliche. Johnny Bravo was the last one I can recall that was a comedy show that featured an adult as the main character.

[Bubblegum Girl]

Most cartoons on nowadays do focus on kids, which is a little too cliche. Johnny Bravo was the last one I can recall that was a comedy show that featured an adult as the main character.

What about Justice League Unlimited and Samurai Jack?

[Antiyonder]

What about Justice League Unlimited and Samurai Jack?

They're both done with new episodes.

[tb4000]

What about Justice League Unlimited and Samurai Jack?

A comedy show. That's part of the reason most adults don't watch cartoons outside of Adult Swim, they're mostly shows about kids that are suffering because adults are morons, apparantly. Who can relate except other kids?

[Aldrius]

No, not at all. As long as Eric Radomski is still in business, there will be a cartoon out there for a more mature audience! mwhaha.

[Antiyonder]

No, not at all. As long as Eric Radomski is still in business, there will be a cartoon out there for a more mature audience! mwhaha.

I'm talking about cartoons that merely have an adult as the main character, not adult content. Did you read my comments or just the title?

[Dudley]

It's pretty simple. Kids can identify with characters that are around the same age as them.

[Sage Shinigami]

Who can relate except other kids?

I can, but that's probably because I remember my childhood very well. :D

[Peter Paltridge]

There were plenty of cartoons when I was growing up that were kid-centric but were written to be enjoyed by all ages. One producer said "I think kids today are just more sophisticated." I thought this would be permanent and that progress couldn't regress itself. But no, cartoon producers are back to making their jobs a chore instead of writing good material. Even kids have to be tired of having every show shove social morals down their throats.

I don't think having a kid cast as opposed to an adult cast means a show is only for kids--as I just said, the writing will prove how narrow a program is.

[Roman Legion]

Shifting perspectives toward writing and audience, morso than cast...


...they're mostly shows about kids that are suffering because adults are morons, apparantly. Who can relate except other kids?There are adults who realize that their fellow adults are indeed morons, but most kids' shows that focus on "adult stupidity" do so from an angle that seems to alienate even those adults who could potentially relate if the show weren't pandering to short-sighted kids.


It's pretty simple. Kids can identify with characters that are around the same age as them.Put that way, it's self-evident. :p

That's not the "problem", as I see it, though. The problem is adults (executives, specifically) with the idea that kids need to see kids their own age in a show, or else the audience won't have anyone to relate to. The thought that kids are only capable of relating to other kids is also what can lead to the "kids rule, adults drool" slop that I vaguely remember from my own childhood. Isn't that just another way of talking down to your audience? I hated it then, and I don't much care for it now.

A few kids' shows have managed to poke fun at adults in a sophisticated way, but that isn't what I think of as "kid centric", even if the main characters are kids themselves.

--Romey

[The Myst]

For newer shows, I like the way Squirrel Boy does it. The adults are oblivious but not necessarily stupid. That's the way it was on shows like Dexter's Lab and stuff and cartoons were better off for it.

Kids Next Door, on the other hand, is a prime example of my problem with newer cartoons. This idea of a divide between kids and adults where there's actually an ongoing war between them is just stupid. Kids Next Door does it literally but it exists in a less literal way in other cartoons as well where adults and kids aren't necessarily at war, kids are just constantly impeded by annoying adults. And it's to the point of ridiculousness quite frankly.

[HG Revolution]

That's part of the reason most adults don't watch cartoons outside of Adult Swim, they're mostly shows about kids that are suffering because adults are morons, apparantly. Who can relate except other kids?


Hmm, idiotic adults, kid main characters, yeah, South Park and The Boondocks are such great kid-centric shows.:evil:

[Anthonynotes]

I agree with the above remarks---when I was a kid, I didn't need to see a show starring a kid character to enjoy it or "identify" with it... Bugs Bunny, the Flintstones, Yogi Bear, etc., for example.

I think these days, cartoons aimed at kids tend to only star adults if they're superhero shows/action shows... none of the comedic cartoons not explicitly aimed only at adults (i.e. the Fox and Adult Swim shows) that're made these days seem to star any adult characters, with the exception of SpongeBob SquarePants---which is probably the most successful such cartoon in this decade, appealing to kids *and* adults. Odd that during its years of existence, none of the other networks/studios have tried ripping it off (the atrocious Coconut Fred aside)---guess the studios/networks are too wedded to the "shows about kids only unless they're superheroes" mentality to even think about ripping off SpongeBob (or an element thereof)...

I figure one reason SpongeBob's as popular as it is with adults is its *being* a throwback to shows like the Flintstones, Yogi, Bugs, etc.----almost all the characters are adults (albeit childish-acting ones in SpongeBob's case), are talking animals, and do wacky cartoonish stuff (i.e. aren't on a quest to find demon talismans/fighting an insane larcenous clown in a "realistic" manner/busting ghosts/etc. ;-) ).... versus the "merely" popular "Fairly OddParents", which while a decent show (some "choice" episodes aside), still falls under the "show about a kid going to school surrounded by evil, malicious and/or idiot adults" (and "teens", in Vicky's case) category, and is a show that'll never reach SpongeBob's popularity levels/cultural ubiquity, with said category's drawbacks probably keeping it from appealing as fully to adults as SpongeBob (yes, South Park and the Simpsons fit the same formula, but those are shows explicitly aimed at adults/are way different in tone and style)...

[tb4000]

While I agree about South Park and Boondocks being for adults and focusing on kids, the creators of those two shows openly admit that they went that route because they were inspired by Peanuts for the most part, where the kids were more focused on as opposed to the adults that seemed to basically be unrelatable figures in their lives. They made them more risque, but it was more of an homage/satire in that respect.

[FinnMacCool]

There is a big difference in cartoons between human adults and animal adults. I remember as a kid watching Tiny Toons, and that was the first time I realized that the Looney Tunes characters were adults. As a kid, viewing characters whose age is not immediately recognizable, I naturally assumed they were the same age I was.

[Roman Legion]

There is a big difference in cartoons between human adults and animal adults. I remember as a kid watching Tiny Toons, and that was the first time I realized that the Looney Tunes characters were adults. As a kid, viewing characters whose age is not immediately recognizable, I naturally assumed they were the same age I was.That seems odd to me. I've never heard of anyone having that misconception. I'd at least figure that the presence of other younger Looney Tunes characters and their relation to the older characters would be an obvious clue.

--Romey

[FinnMacCool]

Most of the Looney Tunes cartoons didn't feature any younger characters, so there really wasn't a point of reference there. What I was getting at is that characters like Bugs Bunny and Spongebob are sort of age neutral because of how stylized they are; I mean, while in retrospect it's obvious that Bugs was an adult, he could still probably be anywhere between the ages of 20 and 50. When you're dealing with human characters, however, age becomes a little more obvious.

[tb4000]

Spongebob is just a big man-child. He's not middle age, but probably in his 20's, as is Patrick.

[Antiyonder]

I've come across some older cartoon, which brings me to add some opinions.

The first problem, as I brought up is the choice to obsess over popularity than true friendship.

The second problem is of course the whole Kids Rule! Adults Drool mentallity.

The third problem with the majority of Tween Centric toons IMHO is that it kills the purpose of animation. It seems year by year cartoons are becoming more like tween sitcoms, and less of fun and intriguing stories with imagination. Not to mention lack of variety.

Here's a thread relating to "The Replacements" that sums my opinion up nicely (The key points of course I'm underlining):


Watch the scene - Todd being hung up there isn't the joke. It's part of the set up. The joke was the progression of things that happened to him after he was hung there. Ace pretty much had it right in an earlier post.

You have to remember that kids show are all about kid experiences like bullies, and sports and first dates. We are all going to cover some similar ground. The question is: do we do it differently? In this case I am pretty confident we did.

It use to be that kid shows/cartoons use to have variety of story, but now all companies are again aim squarely for sitcoms.

Sure all cartoons have their cliches, but each for the most part would have different settings and characters. You had:

Action/Adventures:
Johnny Quest
The Real Ghostbusters
He-Man
Dungeons & Dragons

Animals Misadventures:
Looney Tunes
Tom And Jerry
Garfield
Heathcliff
Yogi Bear

Outer Space:
Space Ghost
Star Trek The Animated Series
Galaxy Trio

Superhero Based Toons:
The Tick
Fantastic Four
Spider-Man
Spider-Man And His Amazing Friends
Birdman
Superfriends
The Incredible Hulk

Sure, there were tween type show then too, but they weren't the dominant species they are today.

I sometimes wonder if some animation writers and children's network execs of today had a horrible/boring childhood (You know, take everything serious, no room for fun and imagination).

[Chris Wood]

It's pretty simple. Kids can identify with characters that are around the same age as them.

Probably, but growing up I never felt the need to identify with characters like Batman or Snake Eyes. They existed in a completely different world from me, and that simply made things more intriguing. All that mattered was that they were great heroes I could cheer for.

Kids may best identify with other kids, but they look up to adults.

[moe-ron]

what about shows that have teams of main characters which include adults and children?

kind of like Time squad or The Xs, they have children among the main characters, but they're not the absolute focus, adults are portrayed as equally important to the series.

also, i don't know where this "kids need to relate to kids" came out from, most kids relate to characters they see in cartoons, whenever they're kids or not.

and then there is stuff like the emperor's new school, Kuzco is an adult.....going thru kid's stuff.

[tb4000]

what about shows that have teams of main characters which include adults and children?

kind of like Time squad or The Xs, they have children among the main characters, but they're not the absolute focus, adults are portrayed as equally important to the series.

also, i don't know where this "kids need to relate to kids" came out from, most kids relate to characters they see in cartoons, whenever they're kids or not.

and then there is stuff like the emperor's new school, Kuzco is an adult.....going thru kid's stuff.
Kuzco is still in school..college, actually. He was only about 17-18 when the first movie was released.

[90'sCartoonMan]

The first problem, as I brought up is the choice to obsess over popularity than true friendship.

The second problem is of course the whole Kids Rule! Adults Drool mentallity.

The third problem with the majority of Tween Centric toons IMHO is that it kills the purpose of animation. It seems year by year cartoons are becoming more like tween sitcoms, and less of fun and intriguing stories with imagination. Not to mention lack of variety.

This thread kind of reminds me of your other thread (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=178635) and that's cool because I can see where you're coming from.

I've been recently looking back on old Disney Afternoon shows, and I like how many of the shows had an adult/kid dynamic. Baloo and Kit, Goofy and Max, Darkwing and Goselyn. Kids could still relate to the younger characters of the series, but there was a strong adult presence in all of them.

That idea is absent from cartoons these days. They focus too much on the kid or tween or teen or whatever character, and when you only get the kid's perspective, you lose the maturity you'd have with a responsible adult figure on the show. And when you don't have that, you get repetitive stories about what kids deal with in their everyday life.

[Net1360]

What about shows that have teams of main characters which include adults and children?

Kind of like Time Squad or The Xs, they have children among the main characters, but they're not the absolute focus, adults are portrayed as equally important to the series.

Like The Replacements?

[Ykwia]

You know, We need a family series based for kids.

[Aldrius]

I'm talking about cartoons that merely have an adult as the main character, not adult content. Did you read my comments or just the title?

I don't remember.

Honestly? I probably only skimmed what you said. =S