BB Is Only A Possible Future

[Bat_Girl]

After seeing ROTJ it seemed to me that the world of BB was only a possible future that would occur if Tim Drake was tortured by The Joker. Now, I don't know much about BB but is it considered the only future for Batman or just a theory? Considering there are many alternate realities in the DC universe I think it's likely.

[BCVM22]

I would think between JLU's The Once and Future Thing Pt. II and Static Shock's Future Shock, plus the revelations seen in JLU's Epilogue, it's been pretty well established that Batman Beyond is the future of the DCAU.

You say that the future established in Batman Beyond seems contingent upon Tim Drake being tortured, which I disagree with; we saw Bruce active as Batman into what appeared to be his 60s or so - a good 20-30 or so years after Tim Drake's kidnapping and subsequent brainwashing, meaning that Tim being tortured didn't stop him from continuing as Batman in any immediate fashion. Tim's torture also has no bearing on Bruce creating the Beyond suit, or Terry encountering Bruce and taking the suit.

Not to mention there have been all manner of comments from the creative staff about how they believe BB to be the solid future of the DCAU. Unlike all the other debates associated with the DCAU and other DC animated productions, I think the debate on BB's place in continuity has long since been laid to rest.

[Batlaw]

For better or worse, as far as the formal DCAU is concerned, Batman Beyond is entirely cannon. According to Bruce Timm and Co. Theyve stated as such many times.

[Spider-Man]

This debate again? I thought it was made for certain that Batman Beyond is the future of the DCAU. I believe it is myself since the very first episode aired. It'd seem like a waste of time and effort if it was just called an alternate future and that's it. I consider it the definite future myself (and a great one at that! I like the idea of a definitive end to Wayne's run under the cowl and a succession).

[CyberCubed]

I'm still confused as to why people don't want it to be THE future. Hoenstly, does seeing old man Bruce upset these people or something? I'm baffled.

[James]

If you want to seperate it as part of personal whim - or canon - so be it. But it's official canon. No doubt about it. :)

[Cortez2301]

If you want to seperate it as part of personal whim - or canon - so be it. But it's official canon. No doubt about it. :)Ditto.Creator Bruce Timm confirmed it.

[The Guitar Slayer]

Spoilers below:







It's intended to be canon, and even if Bruce Timm hadn't said anything, the presence of Andrea Beaumont proves it. She's not been any other universe like Harley has -- Harl made it into the mainstream, while Andrea is a B.T. exclusive. Andrea was there at the beginning, and she was there at the end. She bookends it all.

[karasu]

Their future sucks so bad. Unless they retcon some of the stuff that went down with characters like Superman in BB, the Justice League seems pretty much useless. They haven't changed the world in any appreciable way. They've just stopped a couple of disasters. Delaying the inevitable, nothing more. :raven:

[FireWarrior]

I'm still confused as to why people don't want it to be THE future. Hoenstly, does seeing old man Bruce upset these people or something? I'm baffled.


Agreed, I am too baffled on why people try so hard to believe that BB is just a "possible" future when it has been stated, confirmed, and proved time over again that it is canon.

[Wonderwall]

Their future sucks so bad. Unless they retcon some of the stuff that went down with characters like Superman in BB, the Justice League seems pretty much useless. They haven't changed the world in any appreciable way. They've just stopped a couple of disasters. Delaying the inevitable, nothing more. :raven:

Retconning only exists in comics, Im sure theres another word for it in other forms of media. How is the league useless? Cops have been around for a long time, but theres still crime, are they useless? Same goes for the league, just cuz you have several dozen superheroes doesnt mean theres going to be a friggin utopia. They just make the world a safer place at night. Honestly I dont know the reasoning behind that statement. Also I loved Batman Beyond since day 1, and always accepted it as the future for this animated universe, anyone else who thinks different, can but imo are just fooling themselves and need to focus their energies elsewhere.

[1D_]

I think in general Gotham is safer on BB than it was during the current DCAU time, arguably safer than Metropolis too. Less big time criminals constantly breaking out of Arkam everyday crime is more sparatic in BB school freek, Jokerz gang or corp. crime. I don't get why people try to make BB not cannon DCAU, while trying to jam Teen Titans and Losh in the DCAU when they really don't fit.

[DisneyBoy]

I'm still confused as to why people don't want it to be THE future. Hoenstly, does seeing old man Bruce upset these people or something? I'm baffled.



Actually, I hated seeing old man Bruce, and yes, that's a very large part of why I hated Batman Beyond during the years when it was airing.


Since then, however, I have come to appreciate the creativity that went into creating a possible future for Bruce Wayne. Notice how I said possible. I just prefer seeing Bruce in his prime and without the quasi-futuristic characters and elements. So, for me the world of BB will always be an interesting experiment, but not what's in the back of my mind when I watch early B:TAS episodes. They're just too different, and I far prefer the normal, classic Batman. I do, however, cherry pick. Out of the Past puts a terrific spin on B:TAS' characters, so I watch it and consider it canon. The Royal Flush gang from Wild Cards and Epilogue? I block them out too.


I also dislike Andrea, so guess what? I put the blinders on, and it keeps my love for the show alive. To each his own. But in the eyes of the creative team, BB isn't a maybe.

[Caswin]

Retconning only exists in comics, Im sure theres another word for it in other forms of media.No, it's everywhere. It stands for "retroactive continuity" and covers any change of what happened in the past. Fortunately, the DCAU doesn't rely on it nearly as much as the comics.

[Alph]

Actually, I hated seeing old man Bruce, and yes, that's a very large part of why I hated Batman Beyond during the years when it was airing.

Since then, however, I have come to appreciate the creativity that went into creating a possible future for Bruce Wayne. Notice how I said possible. I just prefer seeing Bruce in his prime and without the quasi-futuristic characters and elements.

Well I hate to break it to you, but Bruce is going to be an old man no matter what possible future happens, unless it's a future in which he is dead. Now, if that's an ending for Batman that you would prefer (that he dies), then I understand. But I don't understand why you would have a problem with BB's version of the future if the main reason is because it makes you aware of the fact that one day Bruce will be an old man. After all, we will all be old some day (unless we die first), so it really shouldn't be something that ruins our lives just because we are always aware of that fact in the back of our minds.

[Donomark]

After re-watching BB thanks to the DVDs, I have a greater appreciation for the show and for Terry McGinnis, but I still wouldn't mind all of that crap NOT to happen to Bruce Wayne. Something about superheroes, they DESERVE a happy ending, dontcha think?

[HaagenDas]

Well I hate to break it to you, but Bruce is going to be an old man no matter what possible future happens, unless it's a future in which he is dead. Now, if that's an ending for Batman that you would prefer (that he dies), then I understand. But I don't understand why you would have a problem with BB's version of the future if the main reason is because it makes you aware of the fact that one day Bruce will be an old man. After all, we will all be old some day (unless we die first), so it really shouldn't be something that ruins our lives just because we are always aware of that fact in the back of our minds.Like Disneyboy et al we just didnt like seeing it.

We all agree that it is DCAU continuity but it spoils the whole thing. Basically, we know that Batman DOES get out of every situation. One of the reasons why he is such an awesome character is because he is just a man who is trained very well. It is his limits that we find fascinating...he cant just fly and punch out everyone in one hit like Superman can...he has limits when he fights which make his adventures that much more exciting. Seeing him survive means that we know exactly how the end turns out.

Kind of liken it to these movies depicting historical events (certain war battles, Titanic, stuff like that).

[Reverend]

Mate, when it's a superhero cartoon aimed mostly at children, you always know he's going to survive. The drama & suspence is in not knowing how he's going to do it.
So I don't think knowing Bruce is destined to live until he's at least 100 really spoils anything.
As for not wanting to see him old and decrepid, I thought the whole point of Batman is that he's human, and growing old and infirm is a part of being human.

[James]

Like Disneyboy et al we just didnt like seeing it.

We all agree that it is DCAU continuity but it spoils the whole thing. Basically, we know that Batman DOES get out of every situation. One of the reasons why he is such an awesome character is because he is just a man who is trained very well. It is his limits that we find fascinating...he cant just fly and punch out everyone in one hit like Superman can...he has limits when he fights which make his adventures that much more exciting. Seeing him survive means that we know exactly how the end turns out.

Kind of liken it to these movies depicting historical events (certain war battles, Titanic, stuff like that).

Oh I disagree. BB is the ultimate tragedy to DCAU. In all other versions, Bruce has what he wants, BB takes it ALL away from him - his Butler, his friends, his cape and cowl. It has him fester in mansion for decades. That is tragedy we NEVER see in cartoons - our characters always ride into the sunset, even when they are dysfuctional as the group are in TNBA... we know they will carry on the fight.. but what about when they couldn't carry on the fight? That's BB.

And let's face it, he's not super hero old. He needs a stick because of past wounds, he needs pills, he needs rest. He can hold his own to a certain extent, but he is not the man he was in any way or form.

BB gives him a role in life again which is a nice juxtaposition to the tragedy of his more recent future past, but I like the way Epilogue shows that no matter how many bridges he manages to mend in ROTJ, no matter how well he has trained his protege, that he's still the grumpy slightly bitter old man, fighting off the ultimate enemy the best he can - death himself. THAT'S Bruce Wayne. There can be no happy ending for the man as his battle has no resolution and he's a stubborn git - he's not going to die easily.

I think BB hits the nail on the head in terms of his resolution, the fact the mantle would be moved to someone else (Batman as a concept is as much about legacy as anything). It's a unique addition to a cartoon series. No other cartoon has had such an intelligent epilogue as Batman: The Animated Series.

[creativerealms]

Batman is a human "Superhero" he is still mortal no matter who he hangs out with. No matter what he does. That was Batman's purpose, why he was created. To show what a mortal without abilities can do. Who relies on his wits and things he built himself rather then special abilities and powers.

Problem is most comic book, and cartoon writers, as well as most fans have forgotten this. They no longer see Batman as a human amoung gods who earned their respect though detemination and spirit. They see Batman as a super hero, as powerful as the others in his own way.

Batman is human, a man, no special abilities. batman Beyond shows this truth a truth most fans would rather ignore. They don't want to see a Batman who's past injuries caught up with him and forced him to retire. A Batman who is old and past his prime.

They want good things to happen to Bruce even though it is Bruce's nature to push people away from him. They hated seeing Bruce alone when if you think about it that's the only type of future possible for him. He drives his family away in every continuty. He can't keep a girl friend due to the shadows of his past.

I'm sorry but the batman Beyond Future is the only future for Bruce. He will never settle down, thats not in his character.

People love thinking of Batman as the "Mortal" Super Hero as long as they don't have to see his mortality. Batman Beyound show's Bruce's Mortality in ways never seen before. Who would wish the worst for a great hero even if it is the most plasible future?

This is why Batman will never age. This is the realistic look at batman when he's older. I mean look at Kingdom Come. Like Batman Beyond Bruce is a battered old man who's past inuries has left him in less then perfect shape. That Bruce too pushes all his friends and family away from him. Only difference is that older Batman never gave up being Batman, he crafted robot Batmen to keep the city safe that he controled.

[Chiptooth]

Oh I disagree. BB is the ultimate tragedy to DCAU. In all other versions, Bruce has what he wants, BB takes it ALL away from him - his Butler, his friends, his cape and cowl. It has him fester in mansion for decades. That is tragedy we NEVER see in cartoons - our characters always ride into the sunset, even when they are dysfuctional as the group are in TNBA... we know they will carry on the fight.. but what about when they couldn't carry on the fight? That's BB.

And let's face it, he's not super hero old. He needs a stick because of past wounds, he needs pills, he needs rest. He can hold his own to a certain extent, but he is not the man he was in any way or form.

BB gives him a role in life again which is a nice juxtaposition to the tragedy of his more recent future past, but I like the way Epilogue shows that no matter how many bridges he manages to mend in ROTJ, no matter how well he has trained his protege, that he's still the grumpy slightly bitter old man, fighting off the ultimate enemy the best he can - death himself. THAT'S Bruce Wayne. There can be no happy ending for the man as his battle has no resolution and he's a stubborn git - he's not going to die easily.

I think BB hits the nail on the head in terms of his resolution, the fact the mantle would be moved to someone else (Batman as a concept is as much about legacy as anything). It's a unique addition to a cartoon series. No other cartoon has had such an intelligent epilogue as Batman: The Animated Series.


Batman is a human "Superhero" he is still mortal no matter who he hangs out with. No matter what he does. That was Batman's purpose, why he was created. To show what a mortal without abilities can do. Who relies on his wits and things he built himself rather then special abilities and powers.

Problem is most comic book, and cartoon writers, as well as most fans have forgotten this. They no longer see Batman as a human amoung gods who earned their respect though detemination and spirit. They see Batman as a super hero, as powerful as the others in his own way.

Batman is human, a man, no special abilities. batman Beyond shows this truth a truth most fans would rather ignore. They don't want to see a Batman who's past injuries caught up with him and forced him to retire. A Batman who is old and past his prime.

They want good things to happen to Bruce even though it is Bruce's nature to push people away from him. They hated seeing Bruce alone when if you think about it that's the only type of future possible for him. He drives his family away in every continuty. He can't keep a girl friend due to the shadows of his past.

I'm sorry but the batman Beyond Future is the only future for Bruce. He will never settle down, thats not in his character.

People lose thinking of Batman as the "Mortal" Super Hero as long as they don't have to he his mortality. Batman Beyound show's bruces Mortality in ways never seen before. Who would wish the worst for a great hero even if it is the most plasible future?

This is why Batman will never age. This is the realistic look at batman when he's older. I mean look at Kingdom Come. Like Batman Beyond Bruce is a battered old man who's past inuries has left him in less then perfect shape. That bruce too pushes all his friends and family away from him. Only difference is that older Batman never gave up being Batman, he crafted robot Batmen to keep the city safe that he controled.

Well said. ;)