are you sure JL are in the same universe as BTAS and STAS?

[Justice League 2000]

I am trying to know is justice league and batman the animated series and superman the animated series are in the same universe? because

1 batman change his costume

2 superman looks older

3. did wally west took barry allen place as the flash In the JL series or wally was the first flash?

4.is batman beyond coming back?

I just need to know the Truth. :)

[Brainiac]

Originally posted by Pete
I am trying to know is justice league and batman the animated series and superman the animated series are in the same universe? because

1 batman change his costume

2 superman looks older

3. did wally west took barry allen place as the flash In the JL series or wally was the first flash?

4.is batman beyond coming back?

I just need to know the Truth. :)

Okay, well, I can (hopefully) answer some of the questions..

1. Batman's costume change--Well, Batman's changed costume's a couple times already (from B:TAS to TNBA), along with quite a few of the villains costumes/skin color (killer croc--grey to olive). You could ask the same question about the Joker, too, but I think they just wanted to change the style a bit
2. The animation's slightly different, but I don't think they're trying to make Superman look older purposely, it's just they seem to be overdoing the lines on his face a bit...
3. not sure.....
4. Not that I know of...

[James Harvey]

Flash was indeed Wally West in the episode of Speed Demons. The voice actor may be different, but the character is the same.

As for Batman Beyond's return...if you mean new episodes then it more than likely won't be cominmg back. The show has been out of production for a little over two years and the team behind the series has split into many different directions.

And Timm stats that Justice League does take plaxce in the same "universe" as BTAS and STAS.

[kid_flash]

Timm can state that all day long, facts are that it isn't, and I can point out more ways it doesn't work that I have fingers.

And Batman changes his costume in the comics, too. He's a pretty stylish guy, y'know.

[James Harvey]

I like to think it is, but that's my opinion. Everyone has their own opinion, and an opinion on this subject is no different. Granted there are conflicts, but I like to think they're in the same continuity a few years down the road. The biggest roadblock is Batman Beyond - but that's a whole different can of worms.

[cysurf]

Well that way I see it is that just because the characters look different (Batman's costume, Superman's face, Joker's everything) with each new series doesn't mean that they aren't all from the same "universe". It's just that the animators decided to change the style and designs of the characters. It has nothing to do with time length or anything. Just like the way Robin looks in Static Shock, I think thats more of a readjustment in animation than Tim aging. It's like the Batman movies: There were 3 actors that played Batman in the movies, but it doesn't mean that they all occured in different "universes" because Batman changed in each movie.

[Mr. Obsession]

Originally posted by kid_flash
Timm can state that all day long, facts are that it isn't, and I can point out more ways it doesn't work that I have fingers.Well since Timm is the one who is in charge of the show, my opinion is the same as his: JL takes place in the same universe as B:TAS, TNBA, and S:TAS, just with little tweaks here and there.

I'd be interested to hear why you don't think they're the same universe though. :)

[JusticeLeagueLegion]

Originally posted by Mr. Obsession
Well since Timm is the one who is in charge of the show, my opinion is the same as his: JL takes place in the same universe as B:TAS, TNBA, and S:TAS, just with little tweaks here and there.

I'd be interested to hear why you don't think they're the same universe though. :)

I agree wholeheartedly.

[kid_flash]

Allow me the often-cliched two words to argue everything: Kyle Rayner. We've broke this down as hard as we can, and there is no way STAS can work with Kyle there and John in JL.

Also, some little things. Like Lois saying "Yeah, and I'm Wonder Woman" in "Blast from the Past" when it is completely impossible for there to be a Wonder Woman.

I really wish the shows would all work together, but it just doesn't work. And I thought Timm spoke about the fact that it wouldn't due to GL being there.

[Mr. Obsession]

Originally posted by kid_flash
[B]Allow me the often-cliched two words to argue everything: Kyle Rayner. We've broke this down as hard as we can, and there is no way STAS can work with Kyle there and John in JL.Well, if you ignore In Brightest Day so far everything else from Superman works. And given that fans have already come up with good theories as to how both Kyle and John can exist at the same time in the animated universe, I wouldn't be suprised if at some future JL season Kyle did guest star (plus it would be fun to see Flash's reaction to the two very different GL's :) ).



Also, some little things. Like Lois saying "Yeah, and I'm Wonder Woman" in "Blast from the Past" when it is completely impossible for there to be a Wonder Woman.Say what? :confused: How is impossible for there to be a Wonder Woman, she's right there in JL. In fact the current episode, Paradise Lost is dedicated to her. Sure she's going by her given name doesn't mean that it's impossible for WW to exist. That's like saying that Martian Manhunter isn't in the series because he's going by his other name, J'onn.

I'm also confused at how a joke by one of the writers from a previous series voids the existence of WW. :confused:


I really wish the shows would all work together, but it just doesn't work. And I thought Timm spoke about the fact that it wouldn't due to GL being there. The way I see it we have a couple of timelines in the animated universe:

1) BTAS, TNBA, STAS, BB, RotJ

2) BTAS, TNBA, STAS, BB, RotJ ignored

3 Current) BTAS, TNBA, STAS, JL
- one episode of STAS ignored (In Brightest Day) because it apparently conflicts with JL.

4) BTAS, TNBA, STAS, JL (one episode ignored), BB, RotJ's existence depends on Robin's appearance in JL, along with future appearances of the Joker.

I don't see the problem. I don't remember anyone complaining that BTAS, STAS and TNBA didn't work together. And fans either accept BB or dismiss it. But JL ignores one episode of STAS and suddenly it doesn't fit together?

[ZorBrak]

<<Also, some little things. Like Lois saying "Yeah, and I'm Wonder Woman" in "Blast from the Past" when it is completely impossible for there to be a Wonder Woman.>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<<Say what? How is impossible for there to be a Wonder Woman, she's right there in JL. In fact the current episode, Paradise Lost is dedicated to her. Sure she's going by her given name doesn't mean that it's impossible for WW to exist. That's like saying that Martian Manhunter isn't in the series because he's going by his other name, J'onn.

I'm also confused at how a joke by one of the writers from a previous series voids the existence of WW. >>


I beleive what he means is Wonder Woman is reffered to as a "newbie" in Secret Orgins and they don't seem to know who she is, and JL is supposed to take place after STAS

[Mr. Obsession]

Sorry, I guess I misread that.

At any rate, I'm still confused at how a joke by one of the writers of STAS who was "tossing a bone to the fans" removes any chance of there being a continuum between BTAS, STAS, TNBA, & JL.

Sounds like nit-picking to me.

[The Mad Hatter]

Indeed... at the time, they didn't have the rights to Wonder Woman and thought that Justice League would never happen. And I don't think the creators would say, "okay, because of that throwaway line we've got to keep that in mind for whenever we introduce the character that we don't think we'll ever get the rights to!"

Honestly, with 200+ episodes in the same universe spread over three series, there are bound to be some inconsistencies. Personally, I think the number of inconsistencies there are, barring art changes and the whole "Kyle vs. Jon" thing, are well within normal human error for talented folks.

[Joe Wagner]

Hmm...don't know if anyone answered this yet but last I heard was that the reason Superman's face looks older is because JL actually takes place about two years after STAS and BTAS. This way the changes in characters are able to happen (remember the line about the general questioning if Supes could be trusted after the events in Legacy). This also helps explain the change in such characters as Aquaman from their original appearances. As for the Green Lantern question, my guess is that GL Kyle Rayner kept his ring and began patrolling outside of Earth while GL Jon Stewart patrolled primarily inside of earth (like the DC books did in the 80's). This way we avoid any conflict about who the real GL is.

-Joe

[D-Mono]

The simple answer about the visual style is simple: artistic liscence.
About Supes looking older: apparantly, it was intended, as Timm says so in an interview (http://www.toonzone.net/worldsfinest/bbeyond/jlbtimm.htm).
D-Mono.

[kid_flash]

See, I don't have a problem with them throwing one line out (well, okay, I do, but not that big of a problem), but to say an entire episode doesn't exist seems to be pushing it a little. There's also the whole ROTJ conflict, but I can write off BB as a possible future.

[Justice League 2000]

Kid flash BB is a possible future but in my opinion Justice League BTAS STAS are in the same universe in

blightest day don"t count.


speed demons don't count


a fish story either

world finest either

superman met batman in the past

superman met aquaman in the past

superman met flash in the past

superman met wonder woman in the past

superman met j"ozz j'ozz in the past

superman met hawkgirl in the past

superman met green lantern in the past

wally west was the first flash in justice league

john stewart was the first green lantern

what do you think? :)

[Joe Wagner]

Hmmmm.......like which episode?? I don't remember BT ever saying an episode hasn't happened - just that they haven't found a way to answer it so it fits correctly.

-Joe

[Joe Wagner]

Originally posted by Pete
Kid flash BB is a possible future but in my opinion Justice League BTAS STAS are in the same universe in

blightest day don"t count.


speed demons don't count


a fish story either

world finest either

superman met batman in the past

superman met aquaman in the past

superman met flash in the past

superman met wonder woman in the past

superman met j"ozz j'ozz in the past

superman met hawkgirl in the past

superman met green lantern in the past

wally west was the first flash in justice league

john stewart was the first green lantern

what do you think? :)

Hmmm....I would have to disagree. JL never says that the heroes didn't know each other - or select members didn't know each other. If you watch Enemy Below you can kind of tell Supes has dealt with Aquaman before (they don't just come out and say it, but he talks to him like an acquaintence). The same goes with Bats, he offers him help in the first ep so you know they've had dealings before. There isn't any "Who are you?" type of things going on in JL, except for with Wonder Woman which is completely understandable, seeing as how she had never been to mans world.

-Joe

[James Harvey]

blightest day don't count.
It sort of does. Timm & the crew are trying to figure out a way to keep it

speed demons don't count
There is nothing that goes against this episode. This episode DOES exist.

a fish story either
Episode still exists. There are supposed to be a couple lines in "The Enmey Below" that acknolwledges this.

world finest either
This episode fits, and there's no reason it shouldn't. Batman & Superman obviously know each in JL.

superman met batman in the past
Yes he did - in "World's Finest"

superman met aquaman in the past
Yes he did - in "A Fish Story"

superman met flash in the past
Yes he did - in "Speed Demons"

superman met wonder woman in the past
This is likely, as there must've been a previous Woner Woman in order for the costume to exist. The current JL Wonder Woman is new though. She explained herself, and her rookie status, in the pilot.

superman met j"ozz j'ozz in the past
Nope - it's stated in the "Secret Origins" that this is the first time they've met - though not directly.

superman met hawkgirl in the past
This is likely since Batman already knows about Hawkgirl. Probably an untold story.

superman met green lantern in the past
Definatly, he's met both of them (I still consider Rayner to be a GL in continuity...it's just confusing)

wally west was the first flash in justice league
He's the only Flash in animated continuity.

john stewart was the first green lantern
Probably, but Kyle Rayner still exists...Abin Sur is the problem...

[JusticeLeagueLegion]

Originally posted by kid_flash
See, I don't have a problem with them throwing one line out (well, okay, I do, but not that big of a problem), but to say an entire episode doesn't exist seems to be pushing it a little. There's also the whole ROTJ conflict, but I can write off BB as a possible future.

Despite what other people say, there IS no conflict with the "In Brightest Day..." episode of STAS...the fact that John Stewart is on JL doesn't ignore the STAS episode at all. All it does is raise questions...how did Joker survive at the end of the Mad Love episode...or at the end of World's Finest...or at the end of the "Be A Clown" episode? These are questions that have never been explained. Does that mean that Joker returning all the time makes the other episodes contradictory? Just because something is unexplained doesn't mean it's contradictory.