No need for pilots (or talent) anymore at CN!

[Daikun]

I just read this article (http://www.cartoonbrew.com/archives/2006_11.html#002443) on Cartoon Brew and was just floored beyond belief.


Below is an excerpt from an ANIMATION WORLD MAGAZINE article (http://mag.awn.com/?ltype=pageone&article_no=3067) about the new Cartoon Network series CLASS OF 3000. In it, the show's executive producer/co-creator, Tom Lynch (http://www.tomlynchco.com/bios.asp?cid=591417501684), proudly talks about how ignorant he is of the animation process:


Lynch confesses to "making every mistake anybody could make, and adding some new ones" on his road to creating a 2D series. "I think my worst one was when the cut came back [from overseas animation]. I looked at it and said, 'Okay, I have some rewrites.' They said, 'Uhhh, you get some retakes…' I had thought retakes meant whole scenes, but it was only moments or close-ups. That was an education right there, because in live-action I rewrite all the way through post-production, I change everything all the time."
Now, obviously, one would assume that a guy like Lynch, who is clueless about animation and art, couldn't just walk into Cartoon Network and demand his own animated series, right? CN must surely have higher standards than that. Well, here's how Lynch describes his pitch to Cartoon Network's Mike Lazzo:




"Mike asked me what I wanted to do next. I told him I really wanted to do an animated show, and I want to have some music in it. He said, 'great, you have a pilot with us — do what you want to do.'"

Nothing about this industry surprises me anymore, but I'd be lying if I said that reading things like this didn't piss me off. How is that CN won't greenlight a surefire quality cartoon series (http://madaboutcartoons.blogspot.com/2006/10/korgoth.html) from Aaron Springer (I guess that means Korgoth is still being sat upon... :sad:), one of the industry's most talented creators, but they'll offer a no-questions-asked pilot deal to an '80s kiddie show producer who doesn't understand the first thing about animation? Somehow, in its own twisted way, it makes sense though. In an industry where you don't actually need any knowledge of the art form to become an executive (http://mag.awn.com/?ltype=pageone&article_no=2738), it would be hypocritical to require that show creators know anything about animation either.
And that's only the icing on the cake. An update was posted, noting that the situation was much worse:


UPDATE: A Brew reader who prefers to remain anonymous, but who I can assure you is an excellent artist, writes in with the following. I had to edit most of the email to preserve their anonymity though you'll get the gist of the message, which is that non-artists have the freedom to create any piece of junk they want at CN while visual artists have to jump through an interminable amount of hoops to get anything on the air:


I just read your post about Class of 3000 and I would like to give you some additional info. Tommy Lynch was actually never required to produce a pilot before the show was greenlit. The show went straight to series without ever being tested! They poured buckets of money into the show before it was ever launched; Craig Kellman, Stef Choi and many others all took passes at designing the characters. As you can imagine, this has created a bit of a double standard at CN. People like Dan Krall and Derik Bachman, Thurop Van Orman, as well as myself, have projects that have languished through countless executive notes while crap like Class of 3000 gets the red carpet treatment.

:eek: Ouch...

I recall some people joining TZ before and asking what they could do to get their pilot/series tested on CN. Well, here's your answer: Just walk in. Forget preparations and the like. Or better yet, just take it to Nickelodeon instead. They at least have the creative talent at Frederator by their side now. (Remember them, CN? The guys who greenlit your most popular series after testing them first?)

If any CN execs are reading this (I know there are a few with accounts here), sorry if I came off as angry, but still, please grow some backbone. Your audience hangs in the balance here.

[Tay the Cat]

Y'know, none of that surprises me one bit.

[Dr. Dave]

Atta boy, Amid! Give 'em both barrels! :evil:

The "Television Executive" continues to be a strange beast that defies understanding or classification. :shrug:

[Draft]

Hello new low cn :)

at least its not a live action series they greenlit without looking at :P

[creativerealms]

New low? Ok Class of 3000 was far from the best cartoon ever but it's sure better then other crap cartoon network got in 2006 like Gym Partner, Robot Boy and such.

[Henk55]

Good, JohnK-man is getting some fresh material for an another cutting-edge rant.

The scary thing is, I almost completely agree with every single one.

[PeppeRaskell1]

They didn't really need a pilot for Class of 3000. Andre 3000 alone was what sold the show.

[Mr. Manager]

That is low.
I mean really low.
Wow. That's just awful.
This is why we need Sunday Pants again. So that we can get more talented people who y'know, actually understand what they are doing and so that it can spin-off series from those people.
Instead, we get a guy whose previous credits include Romeo.

I was actually looking forward to Class of 3000 because of Patric Verrone. I was wrong for actually thinking it would be good.
Hey, execs, maybe you should actually make the cartoons more creator-controlled rather than just churning out corporate cutouts and start to actually care about demographics other than 6-11 and 9-14. Remember when you guys actually gave the ratings for adults as well? That was a long time ago. A time when Cartoon Netowrk actually, uh, cared about being an animation network, not a Nickelodeon clone.

[Bubblegum Girl]

That's just wrong in so many ways. Those CN executives really need to get their act together if they want to keep their loyal fans(If there are any left). IMO I think we should replace them with veteran animators who know what they're doing. :shrug:

The only reasons I still watch CN are Billy & Mandy, Foster's, Ben 10, and Juniper Lee.

[Lutochris]

This isn't exactly something that's unheard of in the television/movie world. Big name stars get shows ("star vehicles") built around them all the time. And because the network is usually only worried about getting that star on their network, they usually forego the pilot process, because the idea isn't to try and test out some new creative idea by an unknown artist before making a commitment. The commitment is already made once the star signs on. Everything after that is pretty much an afterthought.

Is it fair to the actual creative artists who are struggling to get their ideas through the system? No, of course not, but then few things in showbusiness are fair to the true creative people.

[Dudley]

I read that at Cartoon Brew last night, and this proves one thing:
If you're well known for something outside the animation industry, you could enter it with open arms and make an animated movie or animated TV show no matter how stupid or crappy it actually is.

[Harlan_Phoenix]

So I use all my free time to think up convoluted plotlines and characters that I hope to one day pitch into animated (hopefully) masterpieces...and someone else could do it with one third of the effort just because of name?

...I didn't wanna believe it. My heart's broken. But...not surprised.

No, not quite.

[Ykwia]

You discovered that Mike Lazzo is still an executive at Cartoon Network, So that explains all the crap going on at Adult Swim and Cartoon Network.

[Shadow Blaziken]

Well, I'd be pretty pissed if I had came up with an interesting concept that I worked hard on, only to be overlooked by some 'big project' that's only 'big' because of Andre 3000. It's such...a waste.

And they didn't bother testing it, too? Man. :<

[Leviathan]

The criticism is coming from Amid Amidi, who attacks every modern cartoon that's not Pixar, Studio Ghibli, Bill Plympton, Mind Game, or The Triplets of Belville.

Still, that having been said, I agree with him 100% in this case (and if THAT's how CN works behind the scenes, then they deserve every last negative remark that's dished out to them).

EDIT: Wait, this guy was an 80's kids show producer? Makes sense, since there's nothing execs love to greenlight more than assembled-by-committee crap made by other execs.

[Dudley]

I think we need Linda Simensky to come back.

[HG Revolution]

The criticism is coming from Amid Amidi, who attacks every modern cartoon that's not Pixar, Studio Ghibli, Bill Plympton, Mind Game, or The Triplets of Belville.

Other than Aardman's films, Spongebob, Avatar, FMA, Champloo, Satoshi Kon's stuff, and the afformentioned stuff, can you actually think of any popular modern cartoons which don't deserve slamming?

[Mr. Manager]

Other than Aardman's films, Spongebob, Avatar, FMA, Champloo, Satoshi Kon's stuff, and the afformentioned stuff, can you actually think of any popular modern cartoons which don't deserve slamming?Foster's Home.

[Dr.Pepper]

I can totally believe this. CN is lower than low.

[HG Revolution]

Foster's Home.

True, but I don't recall Amid ever bashing that show.

[Andrew T. Hingson]

As someone who would love to make his own cartoon (albiet probably not mainstream) this is very troubling. Artists are on the back burner while commitees run the show? That is absolutely horrible. And how dare they sit on Korogth while they green lit some absolutely worthless original series. There is just no justice in this industry.

But SU182 you can't blame all of CN's faults on Lazzo. But I suppose you can blame more on him than we thought we could when he was just working on Adult Swim. Then again... that's plenty enough reason to be disgruntled with things he's involved with isn't it?

[Gokou Ruri]

Other than Aardman's films, Spongebob, Avatar, FMA, Champloo, Satoshi Kon's stuff, and the afformentioned stuff, can you actually think of any popular modern cartoons which don't deserve slamming? Plenty, though I'm sure those horrible things called "opinions" would make people disagree.

[Anthony C.]

I think we need Linda Simensky to come back.

Fat chance of her coming back. Did you ever read that interview for Animation world magazine? Man she tore the CN executives apart, without even getting nasty about it. She basically said that she left because

-Time Warner came in and brought executives who didn't care about animation
-The emphasis was on quick fix fad shows and not on quality. From the interview it seems as if Foster's almost didn't get greenlit because it was thought as being to different.

She doesn't think much of CN now and who can blame her. I haven't watched the network on the regular in 6 months and I have no compulsion to do so. Over the past 3 years the drop in quality for CN has been mindboggling and this news about class of 3000 is just a microcosim of all the problems this network has (quick fix's, cartoons are for kids, no real vision of entertainment). Its really a horror if you pay attention to these developments.

[oofadoofa]

So... does this mean that I can just walk into CN with my unfinished outline and they'll make it into a series? I don't know if I should be excited or dissappointed.

[Dudley]

So... does this mean that I can just walk into CN with my unfinished outline and they'll make it into a series? I don't know if I should be excited or dissappointed.

No, you have to be famous, or know some higher ups to make your series.

[Mr. Manager]

True, but I don't recall Amid ever bashing that show.I know that. I was just responding to your statement about how you think all cartoons you didn't list deserve to be slammed.

[Discloner]

I don't see what's so shocking about this...I mean, this is the same network that greenlit Puffy AmiYumi, and plastered "Created by Sam Register" on it's title sequence. Its a network run by executives with no animation experience, passion, or interest in there of - and they really haven't done a single thing to mask it.

[Lutochris]

People, I'll say this again: IT'S SHOWBUSINESS. Emplasis on "business". Cartoon Network is driven by ratings just as much as anyone else. And yes, it's true (and I know how shocking this is), but big stars DO GET preferrential treatment over no-name artists. But if you think Cartoon Network is the only one guilty of this, you're sadly mistaken. I refer you to my previous post in this thread about "star vehicles". Big stars get movies/shows build around them all the time. Sure it's unfair to the real artists, and usually results in crap, but it also results in ratings very often. So far I count this happening twice in the history of CN. The big networks like NBC, CBS, etc, usually have at least one of these types of shows premiering every single year.

[livingfruitvirus]

You discovered that Mike Lazzo is still an executive at Cartoon Network

He isn't. If you recall, the Andre 3000 pilot was going to be an Adult Swim show. As the show went into development, Andre decided the concept would be better suited towards kids. The suits gave him the okay to have it geared at kids.

[TheMecca]

So that's why the show sucks.

[J'onn J'onzz]

...How was Cof3000 supposed to be an adult swim show?

[yoshirider13]

...How was Cof3000 supposed to be an adult swim show?Maybe a high school version with swear words in the music and stuff.

[Bubblegum Girl]

Maybe a high school version with swear words in the music and stuff.
That would have been something interesting to see.

[William C. Maune]

...How was Cof3000 supposed to be an adult swim show?

It wasn't. The show probably would have been completely different had it been an Adult Swim. The Class of 3000 we have now probably didn't begin to take shape until it was decided to move it over to the Cartoon Network-side.

[Ykwia]

Now I have somthing to call an [adult swim] original.

Now what was the [adult swim] version going to include?

[Nin-Nin69]

So this was ment for AS from the start, but was transformed into a Cartoon Cartoon? And there was no pilot episode made at all?

Now it makes me even angrier that Kogarth hasn't been picked up when even if they toned that down for kids it would've still been a better choice.

[John Pannozzi]

Fat chance of her coming back. Did you ever read that interview for Animation world magazine? Man she tore the CN executives apart, without even getting nasty about it. She basically said that she left because

-Time Warner came in and brought executives who didn't care about animation
-The emphasis was on quick fix fad shows and not on quality. From the interview it seems as if Foster's almost didn't get greenlit because it was thought as being to different.



Interesting. Know where I can read this interview?

[Zyzzybalubah]

Well it may be unfair that Korgoth hasn't been picked up yet (keyword: yet) and while I'm not really a fan of Class of 3000, I'd say it's one of the more improved cartoons I've seen on air recently.

[Ykwia]

You mean that Ass Action Show and that Squidbillies.

Class of 3000 is good cause Andre 3000 is behind it, If you hate Class of 3000, You also hate Andre 3000.

[Tay the Cat]

Class of 3000 is good cause Andre 3000 is behind it, If you hate Class of 3000, You also hate Andre 3000.
Uh, no.


Andre 3000 has sucked for years, though I like Outkast's earlier work.

[Gokou Ruri]

I never listened to Outkast or Andre 3000, but I enjoy Class of 3000 :sweat:

[judyindisguise]

I have to say I liked "Class of 3000" better than I thought I would. It really has some funny moments and a good group of kid characters. Nice character design too. And I like some of the music.

As for the way CN greenlights new series...ah, it's such a sad sad story. Animation is still considered, at least in this country, as anything but a serious art form. People outside the industry who make REAL movies and REAL TV shows see it as a mere sideline, a sort of high-priced hobby, and so decide to indulge in it just for fun. :shrug:

Sometimes I think that the best way for an aspiring cartoon producer to pitch a toon idea to a network is to produce his idea in some other form first, such as a comic book. There are comic companies like Dark Horse and Image Comics that will take on new projects from unknowns, and the genre isn't limited to superheroes. If you present an idea to these companies and your project has some success, then you've got a track record and some street cred to show to network executives. Plus you'll get feedback from readers on what works about your idea and what doesn't. It's just a thought...:D

[William C. Maune]

As for the way CN greenlights new series...ah, it's such a sad sad story. Animation is still considered, at least in this country, as anything but a serious art form. People outside the industry who make REAL movies and REAL TV shows see it as a mere sideline, a sort of high-priced hobby, and so decide to indulge in it just for fun. :shrug:

I'm not defending Cartoon Network here, but I don't think this is anything limited to animation. The same greenlighting issues can be applied to much of the live-action series out there. Just look at all the new shows that debut on television each Fall. Most of them certainly weren't produced with serious art form in mind. Greenlighting a series or movie simply because X person is attached has been going on for a long time.

[Tea]

As for the way CN greenlights new series...ah, it's such a sad sad story. Animation is still considered, at least in this country, as anything but a serious art form. People outside the industry who make REAL movies and REAL TV shows see it as a mere sideline, a sort of high-priced hobby, and so decide to indulge in it just for fun. :shrug:
So true. I wish I could remember an interview I read a long time ago about someone who was writing/creating a cartoon yet saw it as a short term period and didn't seem to care for animation. At all.

This news makes me feel bad for everyone who's gone through years of expensive art schools, got their Animation degree, and still can't make it in the biz. It happens all the time (95% of art students stop making art after school because they can't support themselves or get a head start) but this certainly isn't helping.

[Gokou Ruri]

As for the way CN greenlights new series...ah, it's such a sad sad story. Animation is still considered, at least in this country, as anything but a serious art form. Sadly, it's like that everywhere in the world. But at least there's some people who think differently out there in the industry.

[Space Cadet]

I never listened to Outkast or Andre 3000, but I enjoy Class of 3000 :sweat:

You've never heard of "Hey Ya!", "I Like the Way You Move", "Ms. Jackson", "So Fresh, So Clean", or "Elevators?"

[Anthony C.]

You've never heard of "Hey Ya!", "I Like the Way You Move", "Ms. Jackson", "So Fresh, So Clean", or "Elevators?"

I hate to say this but alot of the cats who are commenting on the series aren't familiar with Hip Hop or Outkast. Damn shame too, because I've been a 'Kast fan since '96 when Elevators dropped. I remember singing the chorus:

Me and You
Your Momma and your cousin too
Rolling down the strip on vogues
Comming up slamming caddilac doors

People listen to our recommendations: Go out and buy all of Outkast's albums.

[Anthony C.]

Interesting. Know where I can read this interview?

My mistake its on www.biganimation.com (http://www.biganimation.com)

here are a few snips from the Simensky interview

"When I first came to Cartoon Network, its goal had been to make really funny cartoons, which appealed to both kids and adults. By time I left, they had become focused on two audiences: 6 to 11-year-old kids and adults through Adult Swim. I always felt the best shows were those which, like SpongeBob SquarePants, aimed for the largest audience. I think it is shortsighted to concentrate so narrowly."

"The big vision now in the United States is, ‘Let's get ratings.' If that's your vision, nothing memorable will result. In my mind, whenever you're making shows, I feel the focus should be to make the best show possible; maybe it will work for ratings and in terms of merchandising, that isn't the point. For the people in the big offices, it was a great show if it gets good ratings. So the network's vision was no longer my vision. I wanted to continue to experiment, to make shows with a potential for failure and the ability to do something interesting. Today, there's a more formulaic approach, with not as much interest in diversity. There seems to be an interest in making action-toy shows, like He-Man and other shows Cartoon Network makes with Warner Bros.; they are not bad shows, but they were not shows I was interested in. The network was starting to feel more like Kids WB [the children's programming block of The WB broadcast network], which had to do those types of kids-based shows, because they did not have a 24 hour network to build their shows."

also she says

"None of the cable channels for kids are experimenting; in some ways they are better than they used to be, but when one have one discovers something that works, everybody copies it. You cannot always tell anymore which network a show is on and they not as good or innovative as shows were in the 1990s. For instance, we had to fight to get Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends, even though it was from the creator of The Powerpuff Girls."

[Nin-Nin69]

Class of 3000 is good cause Andre 3000 is behind it, If you hate Class of 3000, You also hate Andre 3000.
What if I like old school Outkast, but I still hate this stupid show?

Rappers are not always great when they do TV shows, commercials, movies, ads, cartoons, or anything else that's not what they are.

[Mr. Manager]

My mistake its on www.biganimation.com (http://www.biganimation.com) It doesn't let me use the search option.

[Gokou Ruri]

You've never heard of "Hey Ya!", "I Like the Way You Move", "Ms. Jackson", "So Fresh, So Clean", or "Elevators?" Unless it's one of those popular songs they play in lots of movies/commercials and I don't know who sings it (I didn't know who sang "Jump Around" until a few months ago :sweat:), then nope.

[austiman]

Um, one question. Whats greenlighting, and for another thing, Billy and Mandy didn't have a pilot, yet it's my favorite cartoon.

[Starsky]

Um, one question. Whats greenlighting
Approving the production of a whole season for a show.


and for another thing, Billy and Mandy didn't have a pilot, yet it's my favorite cartoon.
Only it did have a pilot, "Meet The Reaper", which was selected by the audience in the Big Pick contest. Just by looking at the animation and the designs, it's totally obvious it was made way before the show was greenlighted.

And my god, as much is this stuff doesn't surprise me anymore, I can't believe Foster's almost didn't get made, considering it's basically the only creative thing left on CN.

[I.R Joey]

Wow I thought Foster's had a pretty obstacle free ride through development. Guess I was wrong, thankfully it did get made.

[Beat]

Uh, no.


Andre 3000 has sucked for years, though I like Outkast's earlier work.

They pretty much went down the same road the Black Eyed Peas did from innovative to bland pop tunes. Quite sad really.

Not as sad as this. So if I get a celebrity and/or AS executive, I can get my own pilot greenlighted? Because I have ideas. Lots of them.

[Ykwia]

It's time for a Cartoon Revloution.

Show the world that animation it's a serious artform everyone likes!

[Happy]

Hey, execs, maybe you should actually make the cartoons more creator-controlled rather than just churning out corporate cutouts and start to actually care about demographics other than 6-11 and 9-14.Has it ever occured to you that that is exactly what they've been doing. I mean look at this article even, they gave the creator a pile of money and said make us something. They did similar stuff with some of their other shows too. (Camp Lazlo, etc.) But you know what, some creators need controllers. Ofcourse they'd like the show to be targetted at certain audiances, but I look at the current crop of shows and they all seem to have their own vibe, its not the paint by numbers stuff that we had to deal with in the 80's.

[Scythemantis]

I think you guys are blowing this way out of proportion. So one show went straight to becoming a series and the creators had to learn a few animations lessons the hard way...what's the problem? CN can't take risks now and then?

People just dig for any way they can complain about a network, no matter how abstract the reasons.

Seriously, what is it supposed to mean to other shows? It's nothing.

[Space Cadet]

They pretty much went down the same road the Black Eyed Peas did from innovative to bland pop tunes. Quite sad really.



Um, Outkast is still good. Their earlier work is better, but they didn't go the Black Eyed Peas route either.

[Karl Olson]

On Lazzo: Though he's picked up some weird stuff, he does a love and knowledge of animation. I mean, he wouldn't have touched Fleischer-era Popeye otherwise. In fact, the stuff that seems to be the least entertaining on AS are pick ups from Nick Weidenfeld, who likes cartoons, but doesn't necessarily have Lazzo's grasp of what makes a great or at least a unique cartoon all the time. Additionally, you have to keep in mind that during Cartoon Network's golden era, Lazzo was the executive producer on a lot of those series, so he has some kind of sense of what makes great animation.

On CN's Current Management: I think they are animation fans, they just don't necessarily get how to make great cartoons - they lack that level of depth in their animation fandom, and/or it's being clouded by very executive, business-school rules judgement. I mean, I've met Bob Higgins, and he's a nice guy who seems to dig cartoons, and the people who I've met who work with him like him too. It's just that Higgins and Samples have yet to learn the lesson that Cohen, Lazzo and Siminsky understood from the get go, and that Fred Seibert took with him Nickelodeon: great kids cartoons are great cartoons for anyone, and if they are truely excellent, they even transcend time. Whether they'll learn that is up to question, but I don't think it's a hatred of the medium that's a problem, it's a misunderstanding of how the medium works when it works well. Whether they'll learn the lesson before they lose their jobs is up in the air, but it's not that hard to correct things.

[CookieS]

I'm not surprised one bit about how this series was green lit. Its the same reason that Billy Crystal, Madonna, Donald Trump, and Jay Leno have published books. Do I think any of these stars are good writers? No. Will their name sell the book? Maybe. Sometimes "maybe" is good enough. The idea that a celebrity can launch and sustain a product has been going on in Hollywood for years.

Cartoon Brew is trying to show us true talent and how it pales in comparison to what is being present on TV. That approach doesn't work! I could easily point out an actress/singer that has more talent than Paris Hilton...but would that really make people stop watching her?

I sympathize with many of the more creative cartoonists that have shelved projects. I have to stress that talent is NOT the the defining factor in this industry. I know people with PhD's in various fields that are not working in their major of study because other people with bigger mouths and connections are taking "their" jobs. There is no justice when it comes capitalism.

It seems as if there is an injustice, but I wouldn't be complaining on a blog about it. I'm a strong believer that if an artist finds themselves shunned by venues, they have the ability to showcase their work in their own venues, such as the internet. In all likelihood, any animated TV series will get canceled before the creator is mentally done with the storytelling. Look at how long Homestar Runner has lasted versus any of Cartoon Network's shows. Why not self-produce and self-promote? Take that series and make it happen! Obviously this won't rectify the network's injustice, but it would be a pro-active solution that would probably sustain itself longer than if the network did get the show.

I understand that the artist in question is not the one complaining about the injustice (at least not in public), but I feel strongly that many cartoonists are waiting for their big chance with a studio only to be disappointed. I'm a DYI guy and want to motivate all of you artists looking for their next big break to stop looking and start doing. This will be the end of my rant...