S:TAS "The Demon Reborn" Talkback (Spoilers) [Archive]

czyznyck99

11-10-2002, 05:05 PM

The old voice of Talia was none other than Helen Slater, a.k.a. Supergirl in the original movie incarnation! The new voice was Olivia Hussey, and she was also in Batman Beyond as Talia.

This episode itself was okay, I considered it filler, because it was simply another crazy plan by R'as to stay alive. I do admit that Talia tricking Superman by assuming Lois identity was clever, and the semi-rekindled romance between Lois and Batman from "World's Finest" was good. Not much else stood out for me.

3 stars.

Later.

DisneyBoy

11-10-2002, 06:15 PM

I really enjoyed this episode, despite the use of the logic-defying, multi-purpose staff. Otherwise, I have nothing to complain about.

The animation was very on-model and sleek, although certain figures. backgrounds and ears tended to change size from time to time :rolleyes: The voice acting was great, and so was the story. I mean, we finally found out how Ra's built his fortune, and even Lois had some airtime. That scene in her apartment was really enjoyable, yet sad - I feel badly that Bruce won't allow himself the opportunity to be geuninely loved by another. Oh, well - his loss is (hopefully!) Clark's gain.

I especially appreciated seeing Ra's slowly wither. The man's a monster, and he's managed such acts of cruetly and hatred during his life without any reprecautions. Here we see him weak, frail and desperate. Couldn't have happened to a better person, as mean as that sounds. The scene in which he dies was particulatily interesting, if only it hadn't been cut short by the commercial break. How Talia manages to love someone like him is still a mystery to me. She and Harley need to chat.

Still, one of my favorites all round. Plus that ending, while a tad cheesy, really wraps up TNBA for me. I consider it the "big finale" in some ways, and I'm very glad that this episode was made.

Can't say the same for Chemistry, though.

susan123

11-10-2002, 07:06 PM

Any episode with Batman and Superman is a good one in my book! This episode just proves what Bruce said to Ra's in Batman Beyond "You don't conquer death, you live in fear of it."

MILatino

11-11-2002, 12:52 PM

Originally posted by Bleu Unicorn
And I can't believe I just used the word "jive" in a sentence.One of my co-workers was quickly corrected once for using "jive" in a sentence the way you did. The "English teacher" in the group said the word he (and you) are looking for is "jibe", not "jive". "Doesn't jibe" means that something doesn't fit or sound right. The word "jive" means a kind of musical style or movement related to jazz. Cool, daddy-o. :cool:

The Penguin

11-13-2002, 03:37 AM

When I taped the Sunday morning airing of "The Savage Time" (which was good btw) I was pleasantly surprised to see "The Demon Reborn" when I rewound the tape! :) Maybe it was Batman, maybe it was Ra's Al Ghul, but thought this was a pretty good episode.

It was great seening the STAS theme too. :cool:

It was cool seeing Bruce meet up with Lois again after World's Finest. It's obvious a part of each of them still cares about the other. Lois perhaps more so because then Bats pulls the ol' disappearing act. I wonder how he would have reacted had he heard her? Or perhaps that was his intention all along.

Ra's got pretty big there with Superman's power flowing through. The whole story of Ra's no longer being helped by Lazarus Pit made for an interesting story. His obsession for youth and power was really shown here by going for all the marbles with Supes.

Batman coming to Metropolis to go after his enemy "without permission" made the slight friction between the two heroes even more interesting.

The best Batman and Superman team-up? No, but still pretty dang good. :)

I even fixed the picture. ;)

Condiment King

11-13-2002, 11:37 AM

This was an exceptional episode to say the least. A great idea for Ra's Al Ghul to use Superman's powers for his own personal gain.

Batman coming out of his own free will added to the conflict between Batman and Superman while Lois Lane was just in the middle of it all, wondering where her feelings lie. It was a nice tip of the hat to "World's Finest".

I thought it was clever to have Talia dress as Lois Lane for Superman to save her.

All and all, exception but not the best Superman/Batman team-up.

Cyber E.

11-13-2002, 12:37 PM

I didn't get to actually see the episode after Savage Time but last tim I did it was excellent. Batman/Superman team-ups aren't always as exciting as you would expect but this was a good one.

Seeing Ra's,Bats,Supes and Talia together was a change of pace for the team-ups and it was a fun watch when I was younger. **** stars.

JohnStewart-GL

11-13-2002, 11:24 PM

i thought it was great. I don't think its the best team up with bats and supes though. It was interesting seeing Superman handle Ras. I also liked the way Talia got Superman's attention.

batman_batman

12-21-2002, 03:52 AM

i just don't understand why the animators made batman's ears and batarnags look like the ones form batman beyond.
when i first saw it, i really didn't like it beaceuse it just reminded me of batman beyond. and i really hated that show at the time.

warmachine04

12-21-2002, 08:32 AM

Supes stopping a runaway train.
Ras turns into Bane.
The whole "advantages of teamwork" chat at the very end.

Overall, one good episode. :) :) :) 1/2 / 5 :)

superfreak

12-22-2002, 02:23 AM

I like the cross over. The pumped up Ras is cool. I like the way he stole Superman's power, reminded me of Parasite. Lois and Batman scene is great after the "World's Finest."

Sacos

12-22-2002, 03:21 AM

Wasn't this the episode that set up the Batman Beyond ep? I don't think Ras could have survived the end of the ep.

Joker Jr

12-22-2002, 07:30 AM

I don't think Ras could have survived the end of the ep. by Sacos.

I think he definitely could have survived the fall because at that moment he had some of Superman's strength in him.

Overall I really liked this episode. I think that even though itcould have been better it still worked well. I liked the contrasts between Batman and Superman and that Superman used his brain to defeat Ra's. The best moment in the episode was the meeting between Lois and Batman and the sadness that was portrayed from both of them over what could have been. It was also kind of fun to see Ra's smack Bats around even if he did look like Bane. The episode probably would have worked better if it had been a two or three-parter.

4 out of 5 stars

BeastBoyWonder

12-22-2002, 10:52 AM

I didn't really like this episode all that much, but the Batman/Lois scene was priceless.

James Harvey

12-23-2002, 01:07 AM

It's odd seeing those big ears, apparently a mistake by the Dong Yang animators, and then looking at the current "JL Batman" design - they're pretty much identical! An underwhelming episode that should've been expanded to two parts.

The Penguin

01-04-2003, 10:28 PM

Tonight at 2 a.m. ET Cartoon Network airs the Superman: The Animated Series episode, The Demon Reborn. This episode previously aired with the Cartoon Theater presentation of Justice League's The Savage Time (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55513). Here is your official talkback thread and the episode synopsis.

After this week, both Batman and Superman will no longer be on CN's schedule. To talk about them being take off the air go here (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57679). Starting next week, two episodes of Batman Beyond will air in their place. "Rebirth" (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45711) will air January 11. Look for BB threads to be bumped up so you can continue your Saturday night routine. ;)

http://www.batman-superman.com/batman/img/grabs/rasup.jpgSuperman #49 The Demon Reborn
Written by Rich Fogel - Directed by Dan Riba
Original Airdate - September 18th, 1999. - Fourth Season Premiere
Batman comes to the rescue of Superman as Ra's Al Ghul, known as "The Demon" attempts to steal Superman's powers.

Will Superman be "reborn" on CN? Let's hope so. In the meantime enjoy your last chance to see the Man of Steel.

With B:TAS and S:TAS ending after tonight, Jim Harvey and I ask that no one start new talkbacks for the remaining Batman and Superman episodes. We are still discussing the status of future talkbacks and we will let you know at a later time.

The Detective

01-04-2003, 11:30 PM

Odd, isn't it that the last two episodes of Superman that they've shown have been Batman guest star episodes. IT's been like getting four last episodes of Batman.

JTurner954

01-05-2003, 02:43 AM

Before I give my thoughts on tonight's S:TAS episode, does anyone know when Cartoon Network will play The Savage Time again??

I gave the episode four stars. I originally saw the ending sequences so at first I though I was watching a new episode (well, it was kind of). Some good moments here and there with Supes and Lois and Supes and Batman at the end. The idea of an ancient stick stealing Superman's powers seemed a bit weak, but I can let it slide. I was kind of expecting a little more than Ra's having the ability to get a location where all this high tech stuff is underground, yet isn't the Batcave. Still, the episode is good.

BTW, is this Talia's last appearance before "the change" in BB??

BrendaBat

01-05-2003, 11:06 AM

I still can't believe that Talia pulled that big staff out of Lois' suit :D

JusticeLeagueLegion

01-05-2003, 03:24 PM

I still remember seeing this episode a few years back, (and I saw it again this morning) and I always thought that Superman didn't really have as big enough of a part as I would have liked him to have...he didn't have very many lines either...the one thing I didn't really like about the Superman episodes which guest stared Batman, was that when Batman would guest star, he'd take over the show...at least it seemed that way...it seemed like Batman shined more in the Superman episode "World's Finest" than Superman did. Not that I was unhappy with it, but it seems like they could have used the Man Of Steel a little more. There was only one episode of Batman that was a Superman (if you wanna call it that) crossover...it was "Girl's Night Out", and it didn't even have Superman on it...just Supergirl. But anyway, not that I don't like the team up episodes, because in fact, I loved them...but I liked a lot of the episodes that didn't guest star Batman better.

TheScarecrow

01-05-2003, 05:47 PM

This is an enjoyable episode, yet the weakest Superman/Batman team up in the respective series.

World's Finest was easily the best, because it was a three parter that allowed a proper amount of time for interaction and build up to awesome scenes (action and otherwise) all the way to the great climax. Knight Time was good because it had a plot that was perfect for a twenty two minute episode and even allowed time for a "Batman"/Bane/Mad Hatter/Riddler conflict.

The concept of Batman and Superman teaming up against Ra's Al Ghul is a great one, but it wasn't all that well executed. It need a two parter, or maybe a three parter instead of one rushed episode, and maybe a better plot then what was presented here, for greater effect.

The best part of the episode was the scene with Lois and Bats at her apartment. The playing off of their relationship in World's Finest was a great touch and both were in character.

*** at best though. More could've easily been done here with Ra's against Superman/Batman.

DerekPowers

01-05-2003, 07:01 PM

this was by far the worst of the cross-over eps and imo, one of the worst eps of stas/btas.

i dont know, i didnt really like it, what can i say. it wasnt horrible, and it was a fun set-up, but i really looses points with me for using such great characters in such a bad way.

the whole ep just seemed completely rushed to me. what exactly is this staff that has all these powers??

and i really am not a big fan of the new talia (mainly cause of the voice) or ubu's new voice. they were so off and such a step down from their btas counterparts.

the animation was mediocre, at best. there were scenes that were just plain sloppy, mainly the flashback scene when ras explains his story to superman, and the whole final scene in the cave. plus, everyone comments on batman's longer ears, but if you watch the ep, you'll notice his ears are their normal length up untill half way through that fight scene at the airport. then they magically grow.

plus, whats the deal w/ the lazerous pits not being able to heal ras anymore? i think they should have went into that more.

and finally i found the dialogue to be on the campy side. like the scene between lois and batman was on the campy side (although it was nice to see them together again), and the last scene w/ batman and superman was so campy. batman even smiles, come on.

overall, it was a fun ep to watch, but really nothing too great. i'd give it 2.5 stars but it looses .5 stars for fumbling with an ep that features so many great characters. peace.

BeastBoyWonder

01-05-2003, 11:46 PM

Originally posted by JusticeLeagueLegion
I still remember seeing this episode a few years back, (and I saw it again this morning) and I always thought that Superman didn't really have as big enough of a part as I would have liked him to have...he didn't have very many lines either...the one thing I didn't really like about the Superman episodes which guest stared Batman, was that when Batman would guest star, he'd take over the show...at least it seemed that way...it seemed like Batman shined more in the Superman episode "World's Finest" than Superman did. Not that I was unhappy with it, but it seems like they could have used the Man Of Steel a little more. There was only one episode of Batman that was a Superman (if you wanna call it that) crossover...it was "Girl's Night Out", and it didn't even have Superman on it...just Supergirl. But anyway, not that I don't like the team up episodes, because in fact, I loved them...but I liked a lot of the episodes that didn't guest star Batman better.

There was also "Knight Time", which was my favorite Batman/Superman crossover episode barring "World's Finest".

JusticeLeagueLegion

01-06-2003, 08:44 AM

Yeah, I was gonna mention that but I forgot, but that was more of a Superman/Robin episode...Batman wasn't on it until the end.

murmur

01-06-2003, 06:22 PM

I heartily agree that this ep. should have been a two-parter. The dialogue was very rushed and there were was very little build-up. There were lots of nitpicky problems too...but that's okay; it makes it ripe for a parody! :D

JonnyQuest

01-23-2004, 07:53 PM

I didn't really like this episode. It just didn't spark any interest with me. I agree with Jim Harvey, could have been a two-parter.

JQ

G. Wen

01-24-2004, 07:13 AM

4/5 stars

the good:
-Superman/Batman interaction (great tension between them)

the bad:
-too rushed (episode should've been a two-parter)
-stick stealing Superman's powers (seems like cop out)

Simpler Simon

01-24-2004, 03:46 PM

I remember reading somewhere that if STAS hadn't been cancelled, this would've been another multi-parter, and Ra's would have been working to return the world to the age of the dinosaurs (which may have been recycled into that BB two-parter).

Fernus

01-24-2004, 03:48 PM

Making this a two parter might have saved this, but since it wasn't, I found this episode pretty bad. It went by too fast, and was solved too fast. Ra's Al Ghul is a great character when used correctly, but this was by far one of his worst appearances besides his appearance in Batman Beyond.

The Penguin

10-02-2005, 12:14 AM

TheGrayGhost

07-11-2006, 06:00 PM

Tonight at 12:30 a.m. ET, Boomerang airs the Superman: The Animated Series episode, The Demon Reborn. This episode is not yet available on DVD.

http://wf.toonzone.net/WF/superman/tb.jpg

Episode #49 - The Demon Reborn
Original Airdate - September 18th, 1999. - Fourth Season Premiere

Batman comes to the rescue of Superman as Ra's Al Ghul, known as "The Demon" attempts to steal Superman's powers.

Comments?

I'm a year late, but I do have some comments. I just got through watching it on my STAS Volume 3 box-set.

If this were a two-parter I think it would easily outclass World's Finest as the best of the crossovers. But I think it works fine as a one episode story; the quick pace of the development held my interest and probably saved the episode from unnecessary padding, something that hindered Knight Time. The episode also had it's fair share of character moments, the scene with Lois being the best of them.

I really like the Indiana Jones type feel that Ra's Al Ghul brings to the Batman mythos. The ancient history nature of the character gives him a very "vintage" appeal to me. It gives him "texture," if that makes any sense. The lost city in the desert and mention of the Spanish Conquistadors really captured my imigination. I'm really anxious to see Out of The Past now.

And Batman's fighting prowess and investigative nature really came through in some parts. Superman was handled well, even though he was bit overshadowed by the other characters.

It's a ***1/2 effort. The second best of the crossovers.

GregX

07-15-2006, 10:19 PM

Easily the weakest of the Ra's al Ghul episodes.

I did not care for Bane al Ghul. Ra's is easily a big enough threat to force a team up between Batman and Superman. I just don't think this was the proper story for it.

I think the reason Bane al Ghul gets on my nerves is because Ra's has always been a more cerebral villain. Yes, he is a warrior, equal to Batman. But, Bane al Ghul became a brute. A big, stupid brute.

A shame that this was the last present day Ra's episode.

James Harvey

09-29-2009, 06:35 AM

Included on the home video release for the direct-to-video Superman/Batman: Public Enemies animated feature (DVD/Blu-ray Talkback (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=236334), Feature Talkback (http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=236333)), discuss this classic episode from Superman: The Animated Series.

http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/superman/reviews/demon/41.jpg

Episode #49 - The Demon Reborn
Original Airdate - September 18th, 1999. - Fourth Season Premiere

Batman comes to the rescue of Superman as Ra's Al Ghul, also known as "The Demon's Head," attempts to steal Superman's powers.

Comments?

Nora Fries

10-22-2009, 02:54 AM

I really enjoyed this episode.

She and Harley need to chat.

Good point there. Ra's is an absolute psychopath (Read the 'Demons' Annual Glen Murakami and Bruce Timm did) and how Talia manages to love him is as perverse as Harley's romance with 'Puddin'''

Hanshotfirst113

10-23-2009, 01:03 AM

Is it just me, or does this episode have really wonky animation?

Wonderwall

10-23-2009, 02:17 AM

It's been awhile since I've seen it but I remember it being unspectacular from an animation POV. Just looking at that image it shows both Supes and Bats off model.

Manhunter

10-23-2009, 11:28 PM

One facepalm worthy part: when Supes asked R'as what he wanted from him. He's got one foot in the grave and you're the most physically powerful being walking the Earth. What did you think he wanted, spare change for the bus?

DisneyBoy

10-27-2009, 12:29 AM

Easily the weakest of the Ra's al Ghul episodes.

Hmmm...no. I'd give it to the western episode with the son reveal at the end. Ugly animation at the start and finish, and a random twist that kicks Talia down a notch in terms of being a unique character. No, she's just the girl.

It's been awhile since I've seen it but I remember it being unspectacular from an animation POV. Just looking at that image it shows both Supes and Bats off model.

You want to talk unspectacular animation? Here's a shot from Showdown:

http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/batman/btas/episodes/showdown/28.jpg

Demon Reborn is goregous compared to that.

Sure, Talia pulls a 4 foot staff out of her blazer, and yes Batman's ears grow...but overall, it's nicely animated. Very nicely in places, actually. The scenes with Lois all look beautiful. Her face really captures her emotions and Dana's line deliveries well. "I got to get better locks" is a perfect example of this. The reveal of old Ra's is especially wonderful. His design is strong, and he looks good in every close-up. For a guy we're supposed to be rooting for Batman to beat, it sure kills us to see him showing his age, doesn't it? Burnett and the others are right when they say the villains in Batman stories are the protagonists.

http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/superman/reviews/demon/15.jpg

As for Bane Ra's, as some are calling him - it was an okay twist. The whole episode, like all Ra's episodes, dealt with magic that enhanced the villain. If they'd carried on with super-huge Ra's for longer than they did, it would have been really lame. Instead, it immediately comes on the heels of Ra's dying - which was a HUGE shock to me watching the episode - and is quickly played into him hitting Talia - another minor shock that gets us thinking more about how that will affect their relationship than the wierd veins on his arms.

I love this episode, I really do. The evolving Bat-suit rocks, I forgive the mistakes, I love the continuity and the use of the Batman/Superman theme at the end. Just great stuff.