"Batman: A Death In The Family" Talkback (Spoilers)

[James Harvey]

Discuss this classic Batman story!

BATMAN: A DEATH IN THE FAMILY

http://wf.toonzone.net/jimharvey/comic/t-family.jpg (http://wf.toonzone.net/jimharvey/comic/family.jpg)

Written by: Jim Starlin
Art by: Jim Aparo and Mike DeCarlo

Batman readers were allowed to vote on the outcome of the story and they decided that Robin should die! As the second person to assume the role of Batman's sidekick, Jason Todd had a completely different personality than the original Robin. Rash and prone to ignore Batman's instructions, Jason was always quick to act without regard to consequences. In this fatal instance, Robin ignores his mentor's warnings when he attempts to take on the Joker by himself and pays the ultimate price. Driven by anger with Superman by his side, Batman seeks his vengeance as he looks to end the Joker's threat forever.

Comments? What are your thoughts?

[DisneyBoy]

This is great timing! Thanks, Jim! I wanted to address this question to John Delaney because of some recent talks elsewhere on the boards! I was going to ask "John Delaney...what do you think about 'A Death in the Family'?" and I still can! :)

Ok, this is technically a rehashing of another thread I started a while ago...but I've felt rather torn concerning the appropriateness of the events in "A Death In The Family", the outcome and the way the whole thing was done. I found it disturbing that readers wanted a character to "die" so much, but I do think that DC should listen more to the opinions and wishes of it's faithful readers.

In your opinion, did Jason really deserve to die? I agree that he was a flawed character, but aren't we all? Isn't voting for an imperfect character to die saying that, as readers, we only want our comics filled with stereotypical "good guys/gals" and "bad guys/gals"? Did Jason deserve a chance? Since you are in the industry, I was wondering how you felt about the whole thing...

By the way, it was your great Catwoman piece that got me back on the subject! You had two drawings ready to send to us...in this case the Question and Catwoman...just like DC had two issues of Batman ready after the voting was done...one in which Jason survived, and the one we all know...

:( Although I've never really followed any other continuity except the animated series, I still feel like this issue addresses the heart of today's comics, which may be why it bothers me so much. What did "A Death In The Family" say to you?

Thanks for chatting, again :)

[John Delaney]

Originally posted by DisneyBoy
This is great timing! Thanks, Jim! I wanted to address this question to John Delaney because of some recent talks elsewhere on the boards! I was going to ask "John Delaney...what do you think about 'A Death in the Family'?" and I still can! :)

Ok, this is technically a rehashing of another thread I started a while ago...but I've felt rather torn concerning the appropriateness of the events in "A Death In The Family", the outcome and the way the whole thing was done. I found it disturbing that readers wanted a character to "die" so much, but I do think that DC should listen more to the opinions and wishes of it's faithful readers.

In your opinion, did Jason really deserve to die? I agree that he was a flawed character, but aren't we all? Isn't voting for an imperfect character to die saying that, as readers, we only want our comics filled with stereotypical "good guys/gals" and "bad guys/gals"? Did Jason deserve a chance? Since you are in the industry, I was wondering how you felt about the whole thing...

By the way, it was your great Catwoman piece that got me back on the subject! You had two drawings ready to send to us...in this case the Question and Catwoman...just like DC had two issues of Batman ready after the voting was done...one in which Jason survived, and the one we all know...

:( Although I've never really followed any other continuity except the animated series, I still feel like this issue addresses the heart of today's comics, which may be why it bothers me so much. What did "A Death In The Family" say to you?

Thanks for chatting, again :)
Hey DB
This was a very interesting and thought-provoking question. I was an avid reader of Batman comics at the time of the Jason Todd poll(and still am) and I was one of the few who actually liked the character. I voted to keep Robin alive but I did love the heroic way in which the character died.
Notice I said character.
It's a testament to the artists and writers who create these characters that we feel so much for them. However at all times it is important to remember that these are fictional characters, especially in light of true life tragedies like 9-11. There we experienced the true heroism of the police, firefighters, and those who would not abandon strangers in need. When Sir Arthur Conan Doyle killed Sherlock Holmes many reacted with shock and dismay but all were "entertained". It's important that writers and artists are given the opportunity to challenge our way of thinking to take unexpected twists and to draw us in with thought provoking controversy. The very fact that this topic is still discussed today shows the impact it had on the comic buying community. As for whether or not people should be so cavalier about voting to determine the fate of a fictional character, I think truely lies with the individual. If in the spirit of entertainment, one feels that the Robin character was not what they wanted then by all means express yourself, vote for the character's demise. I believe in most cases this is what happened. Many fans felt the angry Robin didn't work and wanted to see him gone, and in classic hero literature the best way to honor a character is a heroic death,which is what DC did. This was definately shown in the way the fans embraced the new Robin (Tim Drake). The new Robin was closer to what most fans wanted to see and relate to in Robin. He was smart, inventive and calmly rational. a perfect partner to the driven and determined Batman and a great hero on his own.
The Death in the Family also drew larger attention to this great character and to comics in general. Many believe that fans were attempting to usher in the Dark Knight Returns continuity (remember this was before Elseworlds) where Frank Miller had said that Jason had died and The Batman was crushed by the loss. But whatever your take on it, it's important that we enjoy the story, that it is well told, and that it draws us in.
The Death in the Family storyline did all of this...here's to great fiction!! ;)
Cheers
John

[kid_flash]

Yeah, I'm not John Delaney but I'm gonna assume it's legal for us "non-pros" to respond (there's another thing to add to my list of things I won't forgive the general fan community for: Threads specifically targeted for pros where a question is asked that can be discussed by everyone, no offense or anything).

Anyway, yeah, A Death in the Family was awesome. I really hate Jason Todd, I hate everything about him, and I would've voted death for him if I even read comics back then. However, I thought Jason was really well-portrayed in this story. And even moreso, the lasting effects Jason's death has had on Batman, Babs, and especially Nightwing and Robin (since they were/are Robins) are really, really cool.

On the note of death in comics, and the fact that the fans severely wanted this kid dead, I love it. Comics, despite the sci-fi/fantasy/dressing up as a giant bat/whatever, should reflect real life. In real life, people die. It is a proven fact that character deaths/disappearances greatly increase fan community (or they just swear off DC forever. Aquaman anyone?), as well as discussion. A Death in the Family did just that, and is this thread shows, it CONTINUES to do that.

[John Delaney]

Hey KidFlash
I don't think Disney Boy was trying to keep anyone out of the discussion. I completely agree with your assessments, when characters die in comics it does add a sence of realism and tragedy which helps to flesh out the character and surrounding characters more. Also it seemed destined to happen eventually and seemed very appropriate for a kid sidekick with less experience to be the one it happened to.
I know I'm in the minority here, but I really liked Jason Todd. I think the whole street kid angle was a very fresh idea at the time, but to be honest the classic Robin costume just did not work with the character. It was perfect for an acrobat like Dick Grayson but a tough kid like Jason just didn't look right in the short pants and yellow cape. When Tim Drake was brought in DC did it right, new kid new look. Perhaps a darker costume for Jason might have helped sell the angry young man angle.
Or perhaps he was just destined to give his life protecting a mother he never knew.
Cheers
John

[Domino]

Originally posted by John Delaney
I know I'm in the minority here, but I really liked Jason Todd. I think the whole street kid angle was a very fresh idea at the time, but to be honest the classic Robin costume just did not work with the character. It was perfect for an acrobat like Dick Grayson but a tough kid like Jason just didn't look right in the short pants and yellow cape. When Tim Drake was brought in DC did it right, new kid new look. Perhaps a darker costume for Jason might have helped sell the angry young man angle.
Or perhaps he was just destined to give his life protecting a mother he never knew.


But if you recall, John, originally Jason Todd was an acrobat, even coming from the same circus as Dick Grayson. Max Collins was allowed to rewrite him (post-crisis) to be the tough street kid, at which point a costume change would have been appropriate.

[DisneyBoy]

I'm really sorry, kid_flash! I didn't mean to limit the conversation between me and John and I am very glad others have posted! The More the Merrier!

As for what's been said, I totally agree on John's comments concerning Sept 11th. They are the people who's losses we should mourn...

Living in Canada, I first learned about the tragedy over the radio, and then saw it afterschool at home. It was such a shock to see that on the screen, and having always been very sensitive to violence, I felt and still feel greatly overwhelmed. I still can't believe what has happened to the States and New York, to say nothing of the countless people that risked their lives or died trying to save others.

It was about a month or two afterwards that I came across the trade paperback edition of ADITF, and I flipped through it mainly because I'd heard about it in a book that discussed the evolution of DC comics. What I read disturbed me to no end. People actually wanting to see and read about more death? Right there in all that wreckage, Jason "died", after having risked his life for his mother who had never really cared about him. It hurt so much to see it, and know others had wanted to see it happen. Looking back, I guess I was taking the whole thing out of context. I guess that the events prior to my reading the story had really upset me, and just made the issue hit home even more.

So, I think that's the reason why I've been asking other board members about "A Death In the Family" so much lately. As much as I totally agree that the comics aren't real life, and shouldn't be taken too seriously, and that writers and readers should be free to control the plots and keep them entertaining... reading that story made me realize what all those thousands of people had to endure that day...Considering that I couldn't really bring myself to watch many of those interviews with survivors or police first hand accounts when they aired on tv...that story borught me a little too close to reality for my own comfort...

Please don't think I have anything against anyone else for liking it or buying it, though! It was just the context in which I read it that bothered me so much...

Man, how the world's changed....

:( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

[John Delaney]

Originally posted by Domino


But if you recall, John, originally Jason Todd was an acrobat, even coming from the same circus as Dick Grayson. Max Collins was allowed to rewrite him (post-crisis) to be the tough street kid, at which point a costume change would have been appropriate.
Hi Domino
I definately remember the first Don Newton/ Gene Colan/Doug Monech Jason Todd, who was indeed an acrobat but that version didn't last for very long and I think the fans who voted for his death were responding to the Collins Jason Todd. Let's face it the first Jason Todd was just a Dick Grayson rip off. His acrobat parents even died by criminals. The only things I liked about that character was that he had red hair (later dyed black) and that his first adventure as Robin had him fight an old Robin foe(CrazyQuilt) who didn't know it wasn't Dick Grayson and really put a beating on Todd for robbing him of his sight. That was a cool story. And you're right, on that Jason Todd the old costume worked.
Cheers
John

[kid_flash]

Ah, sorry about that guys. Middle of finals week, the freakin' comics didn't come in on time, both the West Wing AND Smallville are reruns, you know how it goes. Exploding felt real good at the moment :D

And, yeah, as a character I think Jason could've worked out anywhere EXCEPT as Robin. But he was Robin. I have no idea who he'd end up being, but he just doesn't seem right as Robin. I just never bought the idea that Batman sees a kid trying to steal the tires of the Batmobile, and thinks "Now THIS kid would be a good Robin." Something just seems wrong there.

But he died a hero. Here's to Jason, let's drink until our hearts stop :)

[John Delaney]

Originally posted by kid_flash
I just never bought the idea that Batman sees a kid trying to steal the tires of the Batmobile, and thinks "Now THIS kid would be a good Robin." Something just seems wrong there.

But he died a hero. Here's to Jason, let's drink until our hearts stop :)
Hey Kid Flash
No problemo at all!
When I read your assessment of the tire stealing I LOL!!!
Very Good
John

[James Harvey]

With today's release of the Batman: Under the Red Hood animated feature (Feature Talkback (http://www.toonzone.net/forums/showthread.php?t=271373), DVD Talkback (http://www.toonzone.net/forums/showthread.php?t=271374)), there's no better time than now to bump up the classic Batman storyline that inspired it.

BATMAN: A DEATH IN THE FAMILY

http://wf.toonzone.net/jimharvey/comic/t-family.jpg (http://wf.toonzone.net/jimharvey/comic/family.jpg)

Written by: Jim Starlin
Art by: Jim Aparo and Mike DeCarlo

Batman readers were allowed to vote on the outcome of the story and they decided that Robin should die! As the second person to assume the role of Batman's sidekick, Jason Todd had a completely different personality than the original Robin. Rash and prone to ignore Batman's instructions, Jason was always quick to act without regard to consequences. In this fatal instance, Robin ignores his mentor's warnings when he attempts to take on the Joker by himself and pays the ultimate price. Driven by anger with Superman by his side, Batman seeks his vengeance as he looks to end the Joker's threat forever.

Comments? What are your thoughts?

[Manga4life]

"A Death in the Family" is one of my favorite Batman tales of all time, I love how the Joker was written during this story-arc and I really got into the whole death of Jason Todd, I thought it was done exceptionally well. I was actually a fan of Jason Todd's, I liked how his character was written during his short stay, what I hate though is how DC dragged him back into the spotlight instead of leaving well enough alone, seriously, was bringing Todd back from the dead really that important? I sure don't think so. Sometimes the past is best left in the past, now Jason Todd doesn't seem so special to me as he did before DC brought him back (continuity or not).