What I need to see ...

[Eric Draven]

:mad: I would like to see JUST ONCE, Superman NOT get the living crap kicked out of him when he gets into a fight

Anyone here Box? I ask because I have some years in the sport, and its a common need to stay focused on, and to refocus as needed, on moves and openings while boxing.

If someone hammers you with a good jab or blow, reflexs and training should allow you to move, evade, or take the momentary opening your opponent gives you to return the favor.

I mention this, becuase every time Superman EVER gets hit.. he goes limp, and flies backwards until he runs into something. EVERY SINGLE TIME!!

Im sorry.. but im getting fed up fast with this. Ive seen 12 year old girls with better fighting ability then this red & blue geek!

He can FLY.. so if he gets hit and knocked backwards, instead of letting private property be the object to stop his movement.. why not.. um.. how about.. STOP MOVING??

Flight doesnt require you to point your head in a direction. Its a form and act of will, and Superman is supposed to be INCREADIBLY strong willed.

Not to mention that last night's show has further reduced Supes' power to where Diana can beat the snot out of him reguardless of him not hitting back. Why not simply avoid the blows with Super-speed? Or to block each punch with an open palm, while holding the other up in a sign of non-violence during their battle in the Mall?

What I need to see.. to make me happy for once, is someone with REAL power, taking a shot at Supes, and Supes just kind of glances at them (without having even budged or reacted to the punch that, as far as HES concerned, was like a bug touching him), and simply says "You're kidding right?"

Im sorry.. im ALL for a level playing field for the members of the JL, but this is getting pathetic. All Supes does is moan & groan, and let folks use his body to trash private & public property. He has NOT ONCE shown a single shred of intelligence, tactical ability, or experience. How did he get to be Superman, if the biggest foes THIS Superman seems to have faced down against were cat burglers & jaywalkers?

How many beatings will he take before something in him.. that little "last nerve, and your walkin' all over it" that FINALLY pisses him off, and he starts to do something even VAGUELY interesting??? :mad:

"So, they just don't build them like they used to hmm?"

[The Guard]

I bet they're doing this so that we all look stupid when we see "War World".

[Eric Draven]

Originally posted by The Guard
I bet they're doing this so that we all look stupid when we see "War World".

I happy to be humiliated that way.. GOD I cant wait for some good POWER eps [drools]

"Im a little fuzzy on the whole good/bad thing.. refresh my memory"

[Kal-el]

I strongly agree with you Draven. Superman has been pretty much a super wrecking ball in JL. He has super speed and super strength...two traits which 'should' make him better in a fight. He has near total invulnerability, which would 'seem' to give him the ability to withstand a punch or two without flying into a wall, car, pillar, etc. He is supposed to have a mind like a computer, capable of analyzing enormous amounts of information in seconds...this would seem to enable him to either plan a course of defense or to learn the moves and tendencies of his opponent (as he did once in STAS) and take them down.
What we seem to have here is a slow, one punch and out, glass jaw, Commodore 64-like mind who will eventually destroy all property around him by crashing through it countless times.
That, or someone takes him down with some kind of electricity device.
This is frustrating for a big Superman fan such as myself...

[Eric Draven]

Originally posted by Kal-el
What we seem to have here is a slow, one punch and out, glass jaw, Commodore 64-like mind

Heh..I was going to give him an Atari 2600 mind.. but since you agree with me Ill give ya that one.. I can be generous at times too [cackle!!] :p

"You don't NORMALY see that kind of behaviour IN a modern appliance"

[Livewire]

I concur with everything that's been said. Supes is my favorite and I thought he was great in his own show- but here? He can't even lift a fire truck! (What if WW hadn't been there?) I understand him not wanting to fight back when he realized it was WW, but there are ways of not getting pounded so badly. :rolleyes:

[Kal-el]

Originally posted by Eric Draven
Heh..I was going to give him an Atari 2600 mind.. but since you agree with me Ill give ya that one.. I can be generous at times too [cackle!!] :p
Hmmm. I think I like the Atari 2600 even better. Come to think of it, Supes is kind like "Pong." Every time he gets hit he goes back across the screen.

[Eric Draven]

Originally posted by Kal-el

Hmmm. I think I like the Atari 2600 even better. Come to think of it, Supes is kind like "Pong." Every time he gets hit he goes back across the screen.

ROFLMAO!!!!!! :D

[JohnStewart-GL]

Originally posted by Eric Draven
:mad: I would like to see JUST ONCE, Superman NOT get the living crap kicked out of him when he gets into a fight

Anyone here Box? I ask because I have some years in the sport, and its a common need to stay focused on, and to refocus as needed, on moves and openings while boxing.

If someone hammers you with a good jab or blow, reflexs and training should allow you to move, evade, or take the momentary opening your opponent gives you to return the favor.

I mention this, becuase every time Superman EVER gets hit.. he goes limp, and flies backwards until he runs into something. EVERY SINGLE TIME!!

Im sorry.. but im getting fed up fast with this. Ive seen 12 year old girls with better fighting ability then this red & blue geek!

He can FLY.. so if he gets hit and knocked backwards, instead of letting private property be the object to stop his movement.. why not.. um.. how about.. STOP MOVING??

Flight doesnt require you to point your head in a direction. Its a form and act of will, and Superman is supposed to be INCREADIBLY strong willed.

Not to mention that last night's show has further reduced Supes' power to where Diana can beat the snot out of him reguardless of him not hitting back. Why not simply avoid the blows with Super-speed? Or to block each punch with an open palm, while holding the other up in a sign of non-violence during their battle in the Mall?

What I need to see.. to make me happy for once, is someone with REAL power, taking a shot at Supes, and Supes just kind of glances at them (without having even budged or reacted to the punch that, as far as HES concerned, was like a bug touching him), and simply says "You're kidding right?"

Im sorry.. im ALL for a level playing field for the members of the JL, but this is getting pathetic. All Supes does is moan & groan, and let folks use his body to trash private & public property. He has NOT ONCE shown a single shred of intelligence, tactical ability, or experience. How did he get to be Superman, if the biggest foes THIS Superman seems to have faced down against were cat burglers & jaywalkers?

How many beatings will he take before something in him.. that little "last nerve, and your walkin' all over it" that FINALLY pisses him off, and he starts to do something even VAGUELY interesting??? :mad:

"So, they just don't build them like they used to hmm?" i think war world is when we get to see superman let losse,i hope.
don't worry supes i still luv you.

[Batman 80]

I think we'll see a powerful Superman in the War World episode where he will most likely be forced to fight all out. He can't afford to pull his punches against Mongul who is almost as powerful as Darkseid.

[Eric Draven]

ok folks, I work nites. My job has me working VERY long hours.. on strange weekly schedules. (you know the guys in lock-up that Marshals & Sherrifs are afraid to play with? Thats MY job.)

Unfortunately.. it keeps me out of the loop on alot of things. I may not be able to get here to read for 1 or 2 weeks at a time. All the threads become impossibly buried :( Can someone PLEASE update me on the Future of JL and this 'War World' episode? I would be most greatfull.. these episodes have been more painfull for me then some of the guys' I have to deal with's breaths.

I need my SUPER fix dernit!?! I live to see Supes kick butt.. and Ive been so long without Im 'tweakin'.

"mmmm... a couple of wavy lines?"

[Batman 80]

Mongul is a powerful ruler of the Planet called War World. He's real big(like Darkseid) and has great stregth and fighting ability. From what I've been reading, Superman is supposed to be captured by him and forced to fight in gladiator type games. It should be a promising episode and its set to air after the injustice gang storyline.

[Eric Draven]

Originally posted by Batman 80
Mongul is a powerful ruler of the Planet called War World. He's real big(like Darkseid) and has great stregth and fighting ability. From what I've been reading, Superman is supposed to be captured by him and forced to fight in gladiator type games. It should be a promising episode and its set to air after the injustice gang storyline.


LOL!!!! OMG!!!

[blush] :o

No.. no.. I KNOW who Mongul is, as well as Darkeid. Im a HUGE fan of Silver & modern (ie: pre90's) age DC.

What I ment was the actual Cartoon episode everyone seems to know about. I was hoping to get some details on it... if any are forthcoming. Basic plot behind it.. possible air-time.. that kind of thing. Sorry if I sounded clueless.. I was simply refering the the episodes details, not the subject matter as a whole

"Yes, it's true........... this man has no %$@*"

[peterparker05]

Originally posted by Batman 80
Mongul is a powerful ruler of the Planet called War World. He's real big(like Darkseid) and has great stregth and fighting ability. From what I've been reading, Superman is supposed to be captured by him and forced to fight in gladiator type games. It should be a promising episode and its set to air after the injustice gang storyline.

Actually. according to the Cartoon Network schedule. War World will after Paradise Lost Part 2, not Injustice For All.

[Harvey Dent]

I have to agree with Eric.

When I first started off with DC, I was a Batman fan. No other character mattered to me the way he did, and BTAS simply strengthened that belief.

Then I saw Superman on The WB. Here was the #1 Superhero in DC history, fighting the good fight, doing all the stuff that was expected of him, but something was different. He was human. He had weaknesses, and I don't mean kryptonite. He could be angry and smash a mountain to bits in one moment, then turn sad and yearn for the companionship of his fellow Kryptonians in another. He was 3-D, and I never believed that was possible. STAS made me a Superman fan, and, for a while, even edged out Batman as my #1. Then I read John Byrne's "Man of Steel" mini, and my admiration of Big Blue increased. I was a new Superman fan, secure in the knowledge that Bruce Timm, Paul Dini, Alan Burnett, and the rest would do everything in their power to make The Last Son of Krypton the force he was meant to be. You couldn't ask for a better group of people to handle him. They were the men (and women) behind the "S".

But that all changed with "Justice League".

Paul Dini's prior commitments made it pretty much impossible for him to climb aboard the JL train. Others were busy working on X-Men:Evolution, Static Shock, and Zeta. So, Bruce Timm gathered together as much support as he could, and tackled the group that people have been asking to see in animated format, in a respectable form, for ages. He said he was going to do that. But, there were a few catches:

1: No Aquaman

After seeing the STAS episode, "A Fish Story", I felt that finally, Arthur Curry was going to be treated with respect. No more Aquaman jokes, no more stupid stories, etc. It was this interpretation of Aquaman that led me to believe that if there was going to be a JLA series, he would be in it, no question. In fact, the WB Animation gang was all set to put him in. Not so fast...

Word came down that The Powers That Be were not going to put Aquaman in the League. Why? I guess somebody somewhere felt he would be relatively useless in the grand scheme of things, and decided to go with Hawkgirl.

Aquaman: Super Strength, Near Invulnerability, Ability to breathe underwater and communicate with aquatic creatures through telepathy, as well as some people if he concentrated hard enough.

Hawkgirl: Electrified mace, Flight, Ability to communicate with winged creatures.

Even with the scales tipped in Aquaman's favor, Hawkgirl was selected because it's a nod to the Superfriend's Hawkman, and Wonder Woman apparently needed another woman to talk to. A golden opprotunity to eradicate the image of the Superfriend's Aquaman is missed, and King Arthur is limited to a once a year guest shot. Thank you, WB Animation.

2: Green Lantern (John Stewart)

You've all pretty much heard the arguments for and against him, so I won't go into it too much. However, Timm & Co. once again had a golden opprotunity to turn Kyle Rayner into something special, and probably silence the Kyle haters forever. But they fumbled again. In a quest to diversify the group (despite the fact that the League already has 3 aliens, two women, etc.), Stewart was added. Well, if diversity was the main reason, why not use an alien GL, or do something totally different, and use a Latino GL? There hasn't been one before, but Harley Quinn didn't exist in the monthlies before BTAS, and she turned out to be pretty good. As a Latino myself, it would've been nice to get some kind of representation in the DC Animated Universe. Oh well...

3: Superman

This was a no-brainer. He's The Man of Steel, the Alpha-Male in the DCU. He is The Man. He has to be in the show, right? Well, that depends on which Superman you're talking about, because the one I'm seeing right now CANNOT possibly be the one from the WB series.

When WW and J'onn were being added to the mix, the word was that they were going to be powered down because Superman was on the team. My question is, what is the reasoning behind powering down these individuals, when Superman isn't even...Super!?! If this was the Byrne Superman, then there's no problem. But this is the Timm Superman, a guy who could probably get his rear-end handed to him by the Fleisher(sp?) Superman! Even Krypto could take this guy! As a converted Superman fan, I was (and still am) offended by this portrayal. Why even have him on the team if he can't even be used to his fullest? I mean, why even have any of these characters on the team if they're just going to be screwed over in the power or intelligence department time and time again to extend a story? In that case, they should've gone with the Year One JLA:


The Flash
Green Lantern
Aquaman
The Martian Manhunter
Black Canary


and add Green Arrow and The Atom to make it seven. They are all well-balanced, and it would probably make for better watching. No one hero is superior to the other. They are the definition of a "group dynamic". Sadly, we don't get to see that, because you can't have a DC show without Batman or Superman popping up somewhere, shafting others who deserve a shot at TV time.


Bottom line:

I will continue to watch the show, and hope that things get better. However, I'm not going to stop asking for the Superman I remember in STAS. It's the first season, I know, but when it comes to Superman, a character that they've worked with for years, there is no excuse. Do him right, or don't do him at all.

[killercroc]

Do you guys ever check out Seanbaby.com? He has a hilarious section on the old Superfriends cartoon.

Basically saying how there's a killer comet approaching earth or something like that. Batman gets on his computer, Aquaman goes and talks to fishes, Wonder Woman get in her invisible jet. In the meantime Supes has flown up bashed the comet to smithereens and is back in the bar having a cold beer before those other guys do anything.

I guess they were trying to avoid that type of thing. Still, it's pretty annoying to see Superman get trashed by Wonder Woman. He was depowered for STAS and now he's depowered even more.

[Eric Draven]

Originally posted by killercroc
Do you guys ever check out Seanbaby.com? He has a hilarious section on the old Superfriends cartoon.

:eek: IT FINALLY ALL MAKES SENSE!! I UNDERSTAND NOW! :eek:

http://www.seanbaby.com/superfriends/superman.htm

[killercroc]

Oh yeah, I guess I should have mentioned earlier that there is some R rated stuff on that page. But it's all in the spirit of fun. That makes it better, right?

[metaphysician]

Originally posted by killercroc
Do you guys ever check out Seanbaby.com? He has a hilarious section on the old Superfriends cartoon.

Basically saying how there's a killer comet approaching earth or something like that. Batman gets on his computer, Aquaman goes and talks to fishes, Wonder Woman get in her invisible jet. In the meantime Supes has flown up bashed the comet to smithereens and is back in the bar having a cold beer before those other guys do anything.

I guess they were trying to avoid that type of thing. Still, it's pretty annoying to see Superman get trashed by Wonder Woman. He was depowered for STAS and now he's depowered even more.

Um, getting beaten by Wonder Woman is hardly a mark of shame. In physical abilities, she's basically Superman's equal, and in fighting skills, she's superior.

[Lucho]

I agree getting beaten by Wonder Woman should never be a mark of shame.

She may be superior in fighting skills, I’m not sure how people measure this stuff, or strength for that matter I don’t know?.
For me, what’s always seemed irrefutable to each, is that bullets always bounce of Superman, and Wonder Woman needs Bracelets to deflect them. I take that as Superman would hardly, if ever get hurt or bleed. While Wonder Woman could, (if anyone were actually fast enough.)

But the point is the fight scene (which seemed legit enough), the fire engine scene, and countless of others, are coming off as though the writers are desperately trying to convince themselves and the viewers that Superman can’t do this stuff alone.

Repeatedlly they’ve most unconvincingly and systematically tried to reinforce the fact that he needs the team by having him get beat.
It’s time they came up with an interesting way to show it, that actually involves a plot for once!, and perhaps a little bit more thought. Because as it stands they are just making Superman, and more so themselves look like idiots.