The Batman "A Matter of Family" Talkback (Spoilers) [Archive]

The Penguin

09-23-2006, 09:41 AM

The Batman returns for its fourth season this morning with the introduction of Robin!

http://worldsfinestonline.com/WF/thebatman/media/gallery/talkback.jpg (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/thebatman/)The Batman #40 - A Matter of Family
Original Airdate - September 23rd, 2006 - Fourth Season Premiere

When the circus comes to Gotham, ruthless crime boss Tony Zucco demands protection money from the Flying Graysons, a family of trapeze artists. They refuse to pay and Zucco exacts revenge, leaving, Dick, the youngest Grayson an orphan. Having experienced a similar tragedy himself, Batman is driven to take down Zucco and in the process discovers an unexpected bond with Dick.

Comments?

SemiJuggalo

09-23-2006, 11:04 AM

They did a great job introducing Robin for the new series, but it'd be even better if they gave him a two-parter, like they did with Batgirl.

stwasm

09-23-2006, 11:13 AM

I really liked it. I didn't like the series when it came out and never watched it. But, the introduction of Robin made me curious. Although, I would have liked to have seen more anger out of Robin, especially when he was facing down Zucco. He seemed to calm to me, given that the man killed his parents. But, overall, it was a well-done episode.

CyberCubed

09-23-2006, 11:14 AM

Pretty good, I'm liking this Robin.

The knife throwing scene was top notch, you actually felt real dread during that scene.

JEWCY

09-23-2006, 11:15 AM

This is the first season premiere ive made sure to go out of my way and watch it and it was pretty good. This season looks very interesting with the Clayface, Riddler, and MM episodes, so it is looking positive so far

Gpoliceman

09-23-2006, 11:16 AM

Hello,

I'm an on-again, off-again viewer of "The Batman". I've seen most of season 1 and 2. I haven't seen any episodes of season 3. But I watched this morning's episode. I have to say, Tony Zucco was the most evil villain I've ever seen on this show. Did this show get darker in season 3? Zucco was worse than the Joker (ironic, since he was voiced by Mark Hamill). Zucco murdered people, almost killed Batman, and wanted to beat a small boy to death with a bat. I can't remember a season 1/2 episode in which the Joker was murdering people and beating people to death with blunt objects.

Anyhow, the episode was good, but rushed. I agree with the idea that the episode should have been a 2-parter. The thing about all Dick Grayson/Robin origin stories that annoys me is how QUICKLY Batman accepts him as a partner. That is what needs more development time.

With how the show presented it, it's like Batman's logic is this: "The boy can kick butt. Good enough for me. He can be my partner." It's way too fast.

I like the redesign of Bruce Wayne's character. Much better than season 1/2. His nose was always too gigantic.

Is Detective Yin still on the show?

Gordon's a regular on the show now, right?

Greg

Aldrius

09-23-2006, 11:18 AM

Really nice hearing Kevin Conroy again. Also, I'm pretty sure Tara Strong (Batgirl) and for sure Mark Hamill (Zucco) make welcome returns as well. Some nice conversation between Hamill and Conroy. Those actors really do have alot of chemistry, though it's slightly wasted here.

Jeez, you know... I always hate it when they ACTUALLY give Dick his Robin costume before he even meets Batman. It doesn't make any sense, why doesn't someone recognise him!?

The Grayson's death is pretty sad. It's also interesting to note that here we actually get to know the Grayson's as characters a little better. They don't just show up to die. Though cinematography-wise, the one in B:TAS is superior.

Yeah, this isn't the same 'The Batman'. The way Bats beats up Zucco's thug is excrutiating. We also get some nice character moments from Alfred for once, rather than being forced to see what a nice and compassionate man he is, it comes out naturally. I think it's Alistair Duncan's acting, he's less stiff.

Hmm... Batman seemed to give up his identity to Dick a little too easily. I guess Dick knows anyway, but couldn't he TRY and hide it? Jeez. (Then again, that might get us lame 1950's lines. "You must be Dick! Bruce has told me so much about you! He lets me use the cave beneath his mansion for my crime-fighting activities.") The father-son relationship seems a little odd, considering how he treated Batgirl. I guess Batgirl was more annoying, and didn't really have the same motivation to fight crime that Batman and Robin do. *Shrug* Or maybe Batman's just a big flying chauvanist. We'll see.

Yay. I like how they toughened up Zucco... alot. It's interesting to see a mob-boss in the Batman, considering how quickly they finished off Rupert Thorne. I guess it kinda paves the way to Black Mask a little easier.

Hehe. Am I the only one who laughed at Zucco's "I used to work here... in the circus." or whatever he said? B:TAS references are definetly for the win. Then we have the obligatory fight with Mark Hamill... where he beats a little kid over the head with a bowling pin.

Really nice, Zucco. I guess he is kinda fighting as the Joker would in B:TAS. That's neat, I suppose.

And then Robin saves Zucco. Almost thought Zucco might fall into a glass of water or something.

And then the ending, I find the acting kinda flat here. It seems to happen whenever the Batman tries to get really emotional. Instead of sounding solemn, it kinda sounds like they just are having a normal conversation.

Of course implying that Robin was going to murder Zucco is pretty neat. Goes to show that they're taking steps to make this more appealing to us 'mature' audiences.

Oh, and I really liked Robin's split-cape that made it look like wings. That's a REALLY cool design choice that I hope they adapt into the comics. Uh... despite just re-designing Robin.

jv2k

09-23-2006, 11:31 AM

Wow, that was a great episode, easily one of the best of the series.

First I'll go into the visuals, as always they were great, but this season I saw something I didn't notice before in any of the previews, they flattened out Batman's chin! Finally Bruce has that square mug of his, one of my only issues with Batman/Bruce's look has been solved, now if next season they fix that nostril we see in profile view it'd be perfect.

Plotwise, the episode was great. I liked how the Graysons were characterized. They were shown to be loving parents who, despite letting their child work the trapese with them, were also protective of him. Seeing Dick's dad(voiced by Conroy too, I expected the voice to be different, but no we got his batman voice) fight Zuko's brothers was also a great scene(though it may have just been a squarefaced guy voiced by Kevin Conroy made me think of Batman:TAS). Then there was the scene where Dick's mother says that he reminds her of a robin, I found it to be a great family moment. Then when they died, it was another great scene, from Zuko turning over the popcorn bag with the screws in it, to the look on the Grayson's faces as they realized the screws weren't there, to seeing the fall though Mrs.Grayson's eyes as they fell.The scenes at the funeral, the mansion, and with bruce roughing up thugs to get answers were great as well. I also really liked how Robin took the name, it was something he found corney and shrugged off when his parents were alive, but in their death he took it to honor their memory.

My only problems with this episode were at the end, they didn't make this a two parter so it wrapped up a little too quickly(though I'm also glad its not a two parter). I would have liked them to show batman more angry at Zuko for beating on Robin, and for Robin to have so conflict in saving Zuko. He just rushed in to save him out of relex, it should have had just a moment where he questioned whether or not he should and did the right thing.

Anyway
I give it 5 stars.

I can't remember a season 1/2 episode in which the Joker was murdering people and beating people to death with blunt objects.
In the laughing bat he does gas people who don't recover, and in JTV he tried to kill the entire population of gotham with a gas that would make them laugh to death.

Is Detective Yin still on the show?

Gordon's a regular on the show now, right?

Yin disapeared in season 3 and Gordon is a regular along with his daughter.

Anarky

09-23-2006, 11:51 AM

loved the Batman's rampage in this ep
this season is shaping up to be the best to date

sdp

09-23-2006, 11:55 AM

It was nice to see a little more of Dick's actual family, I still don't like the S2-on intro.
They did a good job at Robins origin at doing something original,

bigddan11

09-23-2006, 11:56 AM

I have a choice to watch this or Chaotic at this time, and I think I'll go with The Batman. I know the first three seasons have been good episode/ bad episode on and off, but I thought the story of Dick Grayson was a great way to introduce this season. It's a shame though that Batgirl is already on the team.

Tempest

09-23-2006, 12:04 PM

Great stuff, it's like they streamlined "Robin's Reckoning" into one episode with a modern twist and more emphasis on Dick's parents. Batman was possessed like we quite haven't seen him on this show taking down Zucco and his mob as well as grittier, harder.

I'm sure this has bandied about on here but I haven't read it. I know Nightwing is on this season but how is Dick going to be Robin AND Nightwing in the same season being that Dick is this young initially? How will he evolve into Nightwing in just a few episodes, I don't get it?

Wonderwall

09-23-2006, 12:09 PM

Cortez2301

09-23-2006, 12:17 PM

How did they handle the death of grayson's parents here?

Snailbait

09-23-2006, 12:19 PM

I was impressed. This was a very dark episode. Good way to start off a season, even if it was a little rushed.

Aldrius

09-23-2006, 12:22 PM

Same as B:TAS really. They had the screws on the trapeze taken off. Dick's mother yells for him as both of them fall to their death.

As for Nightwing, they ARE having a DKR episode that sounds like Return of the Joker. :P

Cortez2301

09-23-2006, 12:25 PM

Mad Mod 49

09-23-2006, 12:58 PM

Did Hamill sound like Joker?

Not really...or maybe he did and his thick gang boss accent just got in the way. :D Conroy sounded alot like Batman though in his role.

Manhunter

09-23-2006, 01:01 PM

Same as B:TAS really. They had the screws on the trapeze taken off. Dick's mother yells for him as both of them fall to their death.

Actually, on BTAS, Zucco cut the ropes so that they'd snap.

Hades

09-23-2006, 01:05 PM

Another lame rip-off of the Timm-verse premier. At least it was better than Batgirl's introduction.

Cortez2301

09-23-2006, 01:07 PM

Not really...or maybe he did and his thick gang boss accent just got in the way. :D Conroy sounded alot like Batman though in his role.Thank you.

Edited By Stu: Discussion of You Tube removed. No more You Tube talk please, or warnings will be issued.

nate3po

09-23-2006, 02:34 PM

Another lame rip-off of the Timm-verse premier. At least it was better than Batgirl's introduction.
How is this a rip-off of the timm-verse premier? No, really, I'm asking. Did Robin's origin seem more "inspired" by the BTAS take than by the comics?
Well, I don't really watch The Batman. Though I didn't make it a point to watch this episode necessarily because it introduced Robin. I decided I wanted to give the show another chance a decided to look at the TV listing to see when it was on because it felt like (from my perception) that it didn't seem to be around (though I knew it was based on talk on the boards and common sense). But this was a good episode to decided to deliberately watch. I thought the Grayson's death played out pretty well. I think they did a good job to introduce the bond Dick had with his parents. That made their slow motion death scene all the more heart wretching. I kind of didn't like Robin finding the batcave on his own. There something special about Bruce deciding to reveal he is Batman like he did in BTAS and in Dark Victory (comics). And at the end when Batman says something like, "You're going to need a name." I kept expecting Dick to say, "I already have a name." I think that would have made sense because he clearly didn't like that name when his mother "gave" it to him but it made sense for him to embrace in her honor. Well, obviously he was embracing it but I think had he said, "I already have a name," it would have been more poignant. That's me, though. To each his own.

creativerealms

09-23-2006, 02:42 PM

They actually called Tony Zuco, Boss Zuco a couple times which was his name in the original origin.

Really Hades you can't call this a rippoff of a Timm verse episode as this episode like the episode you are talking abour are different takes on the same comic book. It this is a rip off of that episode that that episode is a ripp off of the comic. Yet it does not work this way.

This was a loyal Robin Origin episode mixed with a few Batman TAS references thanks to Conroy and Hammil.

Tempest

09-23-2006, 04:00 PM

I believe theyre having a future episode, something along the lines of the dark knight reutrns, could be wrong about the DKR but I know theyre doing a future episode.

Thanks guys, that's what I imagined although on the downside now I know Nightwing will only appear once. Maybe next season Dick will make the official transition to Nightwing.

90'sCartoonMan

09-23-2006, 05:00 PM

I've always said this, and it looks like it still holds true, but the best part of The Batman is that it's such a progression of the character and the world he lives in. In the first season we see normal organized crime turn into deranged gimmicky crime. The cops don't like Batman. Situations evolve, and Batman eventually forms a partnership with Gordon.

Then we have Batman's first exposure to working with another costumed individual, Batgirl, and he's really not comfortable with the idea. It takes many team-ups for him to officially sanction her.

And now we have Bruce Wayne/Batman as more of an adult. Bruce lost his best friend when he became Clayface, Batman himself is matured. One of the struggles of Batman is trying to keep Gotham safe while having to stay away from the prospect of family, and now he finally gets the chance to have a family, only it's not Bruce Wayne who has a son, it's Batman.

Bruce doesn't try to connect with Dick as a normal person, he knows what Dick is going through and realizes how much it tore him up that the man who murdered his parents was never brought to justice, that's Batman's priorety.

Despite Batman's hard work, Dick is still very much like young a Bruce and has to take power into his own hands for the sake of his sanity. He put on a costume and tracked down Batman to confront Zucco. Dick, already in awe of seeing Batman before, knew that to become like him, he couldn't let Zucco die, he had to uphold Batman's ideals. Batman saw this and where he can't raise Dick as a normal person (both because he knows nothing of a normal childhood and because his life as The Batman is more important to him than his life as Bruce Wayne), he can raise Dick as his sidekick.

This is something he couldn't do with Batgirl because Barbara didn't have a drive that echoed Batman's. She has spunk, but Batman hasn't seen the tragedy inspire courage like he has with Dick, and that's probably why he showed Dick who he really is and kept Batgirl in the dark.

It'll be great to see how all this comes into play. I would've like a more gradual introduction of Robin, but seeing Batman train him and expose him to super criminals will be good. I'm sure Batgirl will resent how close Batman and Robin quickly become. I'd like to see Robin as more of an obedient follow the orders partner than Batgirl has been. Robin can still be fun, but something about him has to contrast Batgirl.

Jeez, you know... I always hate it when they ACTUALLY give Dick his Robin costume before he even meets Batman. It doesn't make any sense, why doesn't someone recognise him!?

I was wondering where that costume came from in the first place (it wasn't the one his parents gave him). And Batman's never used a mask like that. Unless, like in some comics, Bruce had another costumed identity before Batman that's been passed down to Robin.

And was it just me, or does Robin's appearance in the intro mimick the comic book cover of his first appearance?

Hades

09-23-2006, 05:19 PM

How is this a rip-off of the timm-verse premier? No, really, I'm asking. Did Robin's origin seem more "inspired" by the BTAS take than by the comics?

Sorry, the only origin story I've read for Dick is Dark Victory, so I had no idea Timm gang got it from teh comics.

SemiJuggalo

09-23-2006, 05:20 PM

Oh, crap! I didn't know that Kevin and Mark were in this episode! Nice nod to the previous series!

CoastCityDude

09-23-2006, 06:10 PM

I really got up this morning to watch LOSH but stayed to watch Bats. This was the first episode I watched of The Batman since the series premiere (which I hadn't liked). I enjoyed "A Matter of Family" a lot and I'll check it out next week, too.

I liked the moment in the new opening credits where Robin bursts through a paper hoop---it's a tribute to the cover of Detective Comics #38 from 1940, which marked Robin's debut. Cool nod to DC history! :)

awh1978

09-23-2006, 06:19 PM

They did a decent job with this, although as other have mentioned it was too rushed. Dick instantly accepted Bruce as an adopted father, and that process sure cleared the courts quickly. It seems to me that a single guy would run into a few more roadblocks when adopting some random kid, regardless of how much cash he has.

Mister Intensity

09-23-2006, 06:58 PM

This episode actually convinced me to watch the rest of the season. Amazing how much better this show has become. My only real complaint about this episode is that I would have rather had Loren Lester as John Grayson rather than Kevin Conroy (although Conroy was excellent, I think Lester would have been more fitting plus we haven't heard him in a Warner production for awhile).

They handled the death of the Flying Grayson's real well and while things happenned real quickly, remember that the original story was about 12 or 13 pages long so a sense of compression is expected.

This is the first season of The Batman that I'm watching in its entirety.

Mister Intensity

Simpler Simon

09-23-2006, 09:43 PM

Great. I think the last time this show got real emotion out of me was the Clayface "Meltdown" episode.

It really feels like a brand new series, much more mature and sophisticated than the past seasons. It's pretty much like the jump in JL from season 1 to season 2.

Batman accepting Robin was a little rushed, otherwise everything came together really nicely.

M.O.D.O.K.

09-23-2006, 10:17 PM

I have been recently been posting my opinions on The Batman's darkest episodes, and this one is next.

Like Simpler Simon mentioned, it truly felt like a completely new series. It truly blossomed from a gimmicky series intended to mostly sell toys to a series with a slowly growing fanbase (I showed it to my sister, and at the end, she asked for the next ep.) First, I've got to say that I love that new chin. Makes Batman look older, since this ep. probably takes place months after Gotham's Ultimate Criminal Mastermind. Thank you, plastic surgery.:)

As for Robin, I thought he was awesome. Felt sorry for him when he lost his family. The Graysons were shown as a family before their deaths, which made a bigger impact when they died. The great use of slow-mo, and the reactions of Dick and Bruce made it more tragic. Also, there was a cool flashback of Young Bruce that was well done.

Kevin Conroy, Mark Hamill and Grey DeLisle did a great job with their characters, especially the first two. Tony Zucco was also well done, and even fleshed out his character more, as a circus preformer and the death of his father. Also, there was a cool Rupert Thorne cameo.

The only complaint is that there was no explanation for Robin's cape and mask, but then, I didn't even cared. Now with the Boy Wonder, I hope Season 4 promesed what it delivered.

5/5

BonyT

09-23-2006, 10:20 PM

I haven't been on TZ in quite a while; never seem to manage to find the time any more :sad:. But I recorded this ep, and just got to watch it a while ago; and I had to pop in & say, this was SUPERB. I haven't seen all of The Batman eps by any means -- I saw almost none of Season Three -- but I think this was the finest thing I've seen from this creative team other than The Batman vs. Dracula. I've never been much of a Robin fan (no offense intended to you though, Bird Boy ;)), but if you're going to have Robin, this was as fine an introduction of the character as I've seen.

I continue to be impressed by the fine visuals that have always characterized this show (Batman punching out of the shadows in the beginning of the ep, for example). And best of all, the Batman was finally really BATMAN. Going to the bar for info on Zucco, in genuine bad-A mode --- now that's the Batman I know & love. Did anyone else notice that they gave the Batman a slightly broader, squarer jaw for this season?

Yep, I'm now really looking forward to this season.

CyberCubed

09-24-2006, 12:51 AM

I did notice that Batman seemed to act more like well...Batman in this episode. I don't know whether the writers are doing this intentionally or not, but the first two seasons felt more like they were about Bruce Wayne than Batman, and if the first episode of Season 4 is any indication, it'll be more of the Batman side taking over his life.

Looking foward to Robin/Batgirl interaction.

Steven C

09-24-2006, 01:26 AM

The finally fixed Bruce's nose and chin!

Aldrius

09-24-2006, 01:48 AM

Actually, on BTAS, Zucco cut the ropes so that they'd snap.

Superficial difference.

It was basically exactly the same. Except Zucco was a bit crazier, and seemed to actually take pleasure in the Grayson's deaths. As opposed to B:TAS where he was sortof 'teaching the circus a lesson'.

Bizarro Joker

09-24-2006, 06:09 AM

As for Nightwing, they ARE having a DKR episode that sounds like Return of the Joker.

The "future" Batman episode is far enough in the future that it will feature a Batman who is refered to as the "Dark Knight Returns" Batman, Nightwing(I assume Dick Grayson grown up) and Oracle(I assume Barbra Gordon no longer an active hero for some season.

Metabee

09-24-2006, 07:49 AM

Oracle(I assume Barbra Gordon no longer an active hero for some season.If she is going by Oracle that means her legs are paralyzed. Kind of hard to fight crime if you have no legs to use. But it doesn't mean she is an inactive hero. She is like Bruce in Batman Beyond, he was still a hero he just did it from the sidelines.

Stu

09-24-2006, 09:54 AM

One of the show's very best. I've been looking forward to seeing Robin in the show since it was announced and it hasn't dissapointed. No complaints here at all - simply a great episode.

I'll be reviewing the episode in more detail for Toon Zone News later this week.

Silly McGooses

09-24-2006, 10:30 AM

Sorry I missed it :(

Sounds like it was a good ep.

JLU Dude

09-24-2006, 08:29 PM

I thought this was pretty cool. They did a good job on introducing Robin. Nice to hear Conroy and Hamill together again (Outside of the JLU ep. Flash and Substance). The coloring of the "R" bothering me in promo pics, but not that much in animation. The voice cast did an excellent job. Can't wait to see what's next (or how Batgirl reacts to Robin:D)

Also, there was a cool Rupert Thorne cameo.

I was wondering if anyone noticed that as well. Guess sometime between The Bat in the Belfry and now he got released from jail (presuming his case went to trial). I wonder how he got out. Probably bribed someone to terminate his sentence. Was a nice cameo, though.:)

Luke Cage

09-24-2006, 08:40 PM

i was pleasantly surprised by LOSH, then stuck around for The Batman and was even more impressed.

I've always liked the look of the show, but the characters and stories were too sappy for Batman in previous seasons. If they keep this up (real villians, real character motivation, less Bruce Wayne) this season may approach JLU territory.

Metabee

09-24-2006, 09:21 PM

I like how Robin's costume was made by his mother.
I like how Robin's cape is partially split.
I don't like how Robin's costume and cape are turtle necks.
Robin should have had more fight time.

Bizarro Joker

09-25-2006, 06:23 AM

If she is going by Oracle that means her legs are paralyzed. Kind of hard to fight crime if you have no legs to use. But it doesn't mean she is an inactive hero. She is like Bruce in Batman Beyond, he was still a hero he just did it from the sidelines.

I completly agree with you. I was using inactive as a term to descibe a hero who acts more behind the scenes, indirectly if you will. Also we are not shure if the Barbra gordon in the episode will be paralyzed. She may have just chosen to be Oracle and step away from the Batgirl/Batwoman? role. We will know more when the episode airs.

Metabee

09-25-2006, 07:37 AM

First is to hard to hit a quote button?

I completly agree with you. I was using inactive as a term to descibe a hero who acts more behind the scenes, indirectly if you will. Also we are not shure if the Barbra gordon in the episode will be paralyzed. She may have just chosen to be Oracle and step away from the Batgirl/Batwoman? role. We will know more when the episode airs.If she still has the use of her legs it says two things, neither of which are good. 1) Batman convinced her she would be of better use in the Oracle position, and she's lazy (the wheelchair use)
2) She got scared, quit actively fighting crime, started passively fighting it, and she's lazy (the wheelchair use)

A.J

09-25-2006, 11:24 AM

Is there a new opening for season 4? :confused:

Prof Ultimate

09-25-2006, 03:25 PM

Is there a new opening for season 4? :confused:
No, but it has been revised to ad clips of Robin, with all 3 appearing together at the end.

Mad Mod 49

09-25-2006, 03:53 PM

Guess sometime between The Bat in the Belfry and now he got released from jail (presuming his case went to trial).

He got out a long time ago before this, seeing as he's been the "arch villain" of The Batman Strikes comic series, always out to get rid of the Batman and his supervillain foes in order to clear the way for his gangster empire.

Beyond Batman

09-26-2006, 01:16 AM

Conroy was a great touch. I didn't notice until I watched it the second time.

Bones Justice

09-26-2006, 07:19 AM

Wow, I'm surprised how much bad stuff they got away with in this episode. I'm very impressed. Not only did people die, but they were people we knew instead of just strangers. I thought the scene with the coffins was very dark.

Overall, I loved this episode. My only real complaint was that it seemed rushed. They had a lot of story and character development in half an hour. On the other hand, I'm kind of glad they didn't stretch this to a two-parter because we already know the story; it's time to move on to new stuff. I can't wait to see how Batgirl reacts to Robin!

Jeez, you know... I always hate it when they ACTUALLY give Dick his Robin costume before he even meets Batman. It doesn't make any sense, why doesn't someone recognise him!?

I was under the impression that his mother had just given him the costume. He was going to wear it publicly for the first time the night his parents were killed. I doubt many people other than his parents saw it, especially with the distraction of their brutal and public deaths.

Slyde

09-26-2006, 08:47 AM

"The Batman" still hasn't changed much since season one, it's a
decent action cartoon hampered by sloppy writing. The first
half is ok, much like the death of Bruce Wayne's parents, it
would have been hard for the writers to really mess up Robin's
origin, although I would have preferred Robin's reaction to Zucco
to be a little stronger.

It's the second act where the episode falters.
I never liked how Batman's detective skills have been displayed,
this time he gets all his info from a toothpick which is only sold
in two places in all of Gotham, I never knew the toothpick business
was so cutthroat.

Now that we have Robin AND Batgirl it seems we'll have more episodes
where Batman temporarily becomes stupid and gets captured, and the
kids are going to have to come to his rescue. Why would he simply
walk into front door the badguys hideout yelling his name?

Did anyone else notice the magically appearing knives?
Zucco only throws six knives at Batman, none of which are close
to his wrists, yet one somehow conveniently appears over his right
wrist, and later as he breaks free another appears over his left wrist.

James Harvey

09-26-2006, 11:47 AM

As I plan to provide a more in-depth review for the site eventually, I’ll keep my thoughts here brief.

I found this episode to easily be one of the best the series had to offer. The animation was crisp and the story-telling was just as solid, save for one or two nitpicks. While I find comments about this show doing a watered-down version of B:TAS to be laughable, I thought this show’s take on the classic comic-book origin of Robin to be very well handled. For such a short running time, they managed to squeeze in a lot of emotion and story. Batman’s new design looked great in animation, as did Robin’s new look (I especially enjoy the detail of his cape, how it divided down the center).

My only major gripe, and this is due only to the time constraints placed by the network, is the quick wrap-up at the end. At the end of the episode, Batman decides to take in Robin as his sidekick. I found their quick exchange and decision to happen way too fast, and too breezy. It’s a big decision to make on Batman’s part, and I found that he came to that decision way too fast. Thirty more seconds would’ve really made this episode a solid ten.

I’d like to point out, in particular, the music in this episode. I thought it really excelled more then it has before. The music playing during the Grayson’s last swing, or the heavy drum use during the climax between Batman, Robin, and Zucco, was well placed. That music really stood out for me, and added a lot to the intensity of the scenes. Add in some really superb voice work, some delightful cameos and guess voice-actors, and it all comes together in a nice handy package. Easily the best The Batman has to offer so far, and with reassurance from the creative team that the season only gets stronger from here, I think this season of The Batman will rank as some of the best superhero animation on television.

Cortez2301

09-26-2006, 05:18 PM

LINK REMOVED BY THE PENGUIN

It is great.I loved it.This is definitiely an episode for a 7+ audience or "PG".It was so dramatic.The death scne was a tad more suspensefult then the ne in DCAU.To be honest I liked the robins reckoning episode more but this is still great.Oh my god Mark Hamill was so dark in this role especially my favourite line in the whole episode "I missed".So it seems he killed his dad.Yeesh,butterfingers.I gave the episode 4 stars.I hope the rest of the season is like this one.And I also gave the link to the video above in case you are bored.

jv2k

09-26-2006, 05:32 PM

I'm pretty sure posting links to it is a no no.

MacGyver

09-26-2006, 09:40 PM

That's correct. http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=168458

That may be for the General Animation Board, but I'd think it would go for the World's Finest Board too. And Toon Zone in general.

Well, my local CW affiliate decided to air this and this part of the Kids' WB schedule alone at 4:00am late Monday/early Tuesday morning. So, I've finally seen it. And it was well worth the wait. (Luckily they won't be doing this again.)

A lot of what I want to say has already been said, so I'll keep it brief. A great telling of Robin's origin, with a lot of material well placed in the timeframe. Conroy and Hamill's performnaces were great and appreciated. Robin's design was a nice twist on a classic. I'm loving the redesigned face on The Batman/Bruce Wayne.

A great start to what is hopefully a great season.

Five out of five.

M.O.D.O.K.

09-26-2006, 10:15 PM

Tony Zucco and Hugo Strange are the ONLY villains I think are superior to their B:TAS.

It seems they were going to the more sociopathic killer path for Zucco, since he actually seemed to enjoy the Grayson's death, and was eating popcorn when it happened. Also, how he described his father's death with a simple "I missed". Scary stuff.

Cortez2301

09-26-2006, 11:34 PM

I'm pretty sure posting links to it is a no no.don't just blame me.Alot of people I've seen here and there go posting stuff like that all the time.Hey its not like I'm talking about the word "Download".

Robin2099

09-27-2006, 01:20 AM

I somewhat liked the first and second seasons, and decided to watch this episode after hearing about all the good stuff from comic con. And needless to say, this was a fairly good, and well done episode. Dick came across well, and it was easy to like him right away, and the version of Tony Zucco was very creppy and sadistic. The only problems that I had were it always annoys me when Robin is seen being this great fighter despite only being a young age. I also prefer what they did in the comic when they introduced Tim Drake where he doesn't put on the Robin costume until later. Overall, I would rate the episode ****1/2 and can't wait to see where else this show will go this season.

Road to Gotham

09-27-2006, 01:45 AM

Like alot of people I gave up on this show but decided tune in for the debut of Robin.

WOW!!! GREAT EPISODE!!!

Nice to heard Kevin Conroy in a different character as a warm and loving father. I was touched by his scenes with his son.

Only minor downside was the quick wrap-up, otherwise this was a pitch-perfect show.

Matsuda

09-27-2006, 02:55 AM

I'm glad everyone really seemed to like the episode, there were a couple that didn't but we can't please everyone. You guys brought up a lot of great points like how the episode seemed rushed and how quickly people are accepting their roles. I tend to agree with those critiques, we had a really hard time fitting in the intro of the parents, intro of Zucco, death of Parents, Robin being adopted, yadda, yadda, yadda in a 22 minute format. I think everyone did a great job on the show and problem solving to get that much information crammed into that short of a time. We would have had much more time if we made it a two parter, but if we did we would have had to use the same format as we did in Batgirl begins(start with Batgirl, flashback to origin) and we really didn't want to, I wanted to see young dick with his parents, then watch the story unfold in a linear fashion. It's tough for a network to agree to a two parter where you don't see Robin being introduced til the very end of the third act, so I can see their point. Thanks for all the comments, it's great to see that we made a show this season to really please the fans and you guys seem to really enjoyed it. We appreciate all your support and critiques!

creativerealms

09-27-2006, 11:07 AM

Well it was less that Robin was a great fighter and more that he's a trained acrabat that helped him in the fights. All he was fighting were common thugs anyway. Batman will be training him though the season I figure. He just used his training with some normal punches and kicks and they just looked better then they really were.

Oh Matsuda id this the type of stuff we can expect this season or is this as dark as it gets? Ether way the season sounds great.

Matsuda

09-27-2006, 01:53 PM

Creative Realms, I'm glad you enjoyed the episode. In regards to your question, the answer would be yes and no. We're really want to give you guys a wide spectrum of episodes this season. Next weeks "Team Penguin" for instance is a total romp that's more of a fun episode. Batman's still Batman, but the episode concentrates on comedy and characters. After that there's "Clayfaces" which is more of a dramatic showdown. This season's all about event type episodes, you can probably figure out the overall feeling of the episodes from the loglines. Enjoy the season!

Cortez2301

09-27-2006, 01:55 PM

JLU Dude

09-27-2006, 03:25 PM

Is it just me or did anyone familiar with Spider-Man comics get an Enforcers vibe from Zucco's brothers? For anymore not familiar with what I'm talking about, the Enforcers were a small group of thugs that Spider-Man occasionally fought. There was Ox, a strongman; Montana, a man who used a whip or lasso (depending on which continuity you're talking about); and Fancy Dan, a small guy in who had some specific skills (either Martial Arts or Guns, again depending on the continity you're talking about).

I just got that vibe from the brothers. So, I'm wondering if they were inspired by the Enforcers or am I reading too much into it?

The Penguin

09-27-2006, 03:27 PM

Jeez, you know... I always hate it when they ACTUALLY give Dick his Robin costume before he even meets Batman. It doesn't make any sense, why doesn't someone recognise him!?No one ever saw the costume, they were new. When Dick was introduced he was still wearing his robe and he never took it off. We didn't meet any of the other circus performers, but if they got a "preview" of the new Grayson costumes and made the connection later on, they wouldn't rat out one of their own.

Stu

09-27-2006, 03:31 PM

Is it just me or did anyone familiar with Spider-Man comics get an Enforcers vibe from Zucco's brothers? For anymore not familiar with what I'm talking about, the Enforcers were a small gropu of thugs that Spider-Man occasionally fought. There was Ox, a strongman; Montana, a man who used a whip or lasso (depending on which continuity you're talking about); and Fancy Dan, a small guy in who had some specific skills (either Martial Arts or Guns, again depending on the continity you're talking about).

I just got that vibe from the brothers. So, I'm wondering if they were inspired by the Enforcers or am I reading too much into it?
I thought that as well, I was definatly thinking about The Enforcers when watching that opening scene. I thought it was another cool little aspect to the episode, which I'd say is probably the best episode we've seen from the show so far.

Mad Mod 49

09-27-2006, 03:51 PM

Question: Is "Team Penguin" going to be as adult as A" matter of family"?

Matsuda just commented saying that it would be a comedic, fun episode, so no, it won't be adult. The third episode, "Clayfaces", will be though, seeing as it focuses on the always dramatic Ethan Bennet/Clayface (this time pitting him against Matt Hagen, Clayface #2! :cool: )

A.J

09-27-2006, 03:57 PM

TRUE

09-27-2006, 04:23 PM

Ep Was Ight, But The Btas Version Was Better Imo

Livy1213

09-27-2006, 04:28 PM

This is neat. It's always great when one of the creative team talks to the fans.

Great episode by the way. It really started the season off with drama. Tony Zucco has to be the creepiest and best villian on the show so far. I hope there will be a least one more apearance of Zucco in later episodes. I can't get enough of Mark Hamill's voice.

Robin was quite good and I can't wait to see his interactions with Batgirl, him being the "official" sidekick and all.

I saw the design for Nightwing and it looks absolutly fantastic! The best design of the show so far and that's saying something.

Batman's redesign for this season was really an improvement. He looks really really good now with his squarer jaw and more serious expression. His attitude is more like the Batman we know and love and less like Bruce Wayne.

Robin's rage was not as well evident in the final showdown but I guess that's what you get with time restrictions.

Best episode of the entire series. IMO better then Meltdown. :) I hope this is a sign of things to come this season.

Matsuda

09-27-2006, 04:53 PM

I was definately thinking of the Enforcers when I art directed the team on how to handle Zucco's "family". I use to love those old Spideys, thus the yellow top on the bruiser character.

Cortez2301

09-27-2006, 05:11 PM

Matsuda just commented saying that it would be a comedic, fun episode, so no, it won't be adult. The third episode, "Clayfaces", will be though, seeing as it focuses on the always dramatic Ethan Bennet/Clayface (this time pitting him against Matt Hagen, Clayface #2! :cool: )Oh ok thanks.

Azrael24

09-27-2006, 05:54 PM

Ive been a fan of this show, and this episode really impressesed me more than others. everything was so dramatic and zucco was such a scary villain! my only complaint would be that it felt just a little too rushed.

*****

i hope the rest of the season is as good as this! i also hope hope we get see catwoman or selina in at least one episode!!!

JLU Dude

09-27-2006, 09:01 PM

I was definately thinking of the Enforcers when I art directed the team on how to handle Zucco's "family". I use to love those old Spideys, thus the yellow top on the bruiser character.

Ah. That's pretty interesting to hear.:)

Cortez2301

09-27-2006, 09:09 PM

I really hope this is under the classic collection banner when it comes on dVD.

MacGyver

09-27-2006, 09:51 PM

I really hope this is under the classic collection banner when it comes on dVD.

I wouldn't hold my breath. The others were released under the DC Comics Kids' Collection. I can't see them changing it just for season 3 or 4.

Silly McGooses

09-27-2006, 10:06 PM

I hope I catch this soon, I totally forgot about it. Does TB still run on CN? I haven't watched CN for about a year. Hopefully it's re-airing on CN or CW sometime soon.

creativerealms

09-28-2006, 09:18 AM

Thanks.

Cartoon Network has picked up season two and three of the batman but I don't know when they plan to air them.

James Harvey

09-28-2006, 11:50 AM

I expect this season we’ll get a lot of different types of stories being told. I imagine it’ll range from the adult tone, to light hearted and fun, to big and epic, to completely out there and bizarre. And I’m up for all of it. Why settle for one when we can have so much more?

I had a chance to rewatch this episode, and it completely holds up. Packed with emotion and some great performances, this show has really stepped up. Plus, you can really tell that Andrea Romano has added her touch to the series in the vocal performances. They all seemed real and delivered with complete believability. The redesign of Batman, which has a “Bob Smith” feel to it, really shows the progression of time for the series. The show is really moving ahead, as it does every season, but it seems more monumental this time. Adding the inclusion of Robin, and making Batman a littler more dark, pushes the series into new territory yet again this season.

If anyone doubted before, The Batman has definitely arrived this season!

adoptedBatpuppy

09-28-2006, 12:12 PM

I saw it, and the only problem there was is that Robin was not emotional enough and he saved Zucco? If it was me I would just let him fall. :evil: I think he deserved it, for what he is done to Richard's family. The episode fell a bit short too, but other then that there were some nice touches. We get to know Dick's family more and strange way for Dick to figure out Bruce's secret! Nice animation and voice acting! :cool:
Did anyone notice that Zucco has two different eyes one brown and teh other is blue? I have met animals with differnt eye colors but never people, my mom has though and it's kind of freaky! :eek:

A.J

09-28-2006, 12:35 PM

Did anyone notice that Zucco has two different eyes one brown and teh other is blue? I have met animals with differnt eye colors but never people, my mom has though and it's kind of freaky! :eek:

I am one of THOSE people...I have an eye brown and the other green and I dont consider myself a freak...

...of course thats because my other contact green glass fell off this morning! :p

Arsenal

09-28-2006, 05:25 PM

This episodes was filled with consummate voice-acting professionals. Grey Delisle, Rino Romano, Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill have all impressed me on several occasions. Somehow, it was still Evan Sabara who stole the show for me.

For a young guy, he has got chops. He's angry. He's fun. He's savvy. The creative team did an excellent job of introducing Robin, and Evan and the animation team did a good job of selling it. The line that stuck with me was "I'll be fine. At least, that's what everyone keeps telling me."

Another thing, this might be one of the best scripts for The Batman I've ever watched. Yes there were some good ones before (most of my favorites were Greg Weisman-penned), but this one tops them in my personal estimation.

Color me impressed. I'll be back next week.

Iron Man Stewie

09-28-2006, 07:11 PM

I liked the opener, perhaps what really nailed it halfway through was the POV from Dick's mother falling away from her son, it was quick, but it gave the viewer the chance to share her fate for a few breif seconds, that is a very scary thing. Probably one of the best directed shots of the series.

Duke

09-28-2006, 10:07 PM

Check out "The Batman" Season Premiere: The Dynamic Duo Are Back! (http://news.toonzone.net/article.php?ID=12582).

Toon Zone has its first review of The Batman Season 4, courtesy of Stu!

http://news.toonzone.net/images/2006-09/splash_thebatmans4lg.jpg (http://news.toonzone.net/article.php?ID=12582)

Iron Man Stewie

09-28-2006, 11:23 PM

I agree with it, the third season was a step back from the glorious second season, the show had taken great strides to carefully place it's own mythology together so it can stand out and stand up it's own indepedent self, compaired to none, just accepted as it's own show. The third season completly reminded the critics of why they hated the show's reason to exist in the first place.

The best hope this series has now is using it's own past and on the right characters, Robin is the latter, and the former is Ethan Bennet. Bennet being brought back for the Clayface episode is a masterstroke, he's one of the best original characters created for the series and the audience cares for his plight, his story may get a happy ending, and who knows what can happen after that? With Gordon virtually a doormat the same way Rohas was for every crook in Gotham to kidnap and hoodwink, Ethan is from the "I've dealt with it, I was in with it" school of cop turned con turned good again.

Duckboy

09-28-2006, 11:28 PM

I'm thrilled to see Matsuda checking out the boards here, despite the ... um, less than universal praise of _The Batman_ around here over the years. When great episodes like this come along, the creators deserve to hear the good stuff, too.

The genius of the episode -- characterization-wise, anyway -- is the decision to present Batman/Bruce as a father figure. Sure, that's always been a pretty explicit part of the Batman-Robin relationship, but we're all much more used to thinking of the Dynamic Duo as *partners*. Or, at the very least, rookie superhero and mentor.

Matsuda & co accurately grasp here that *both* Batman and Robin are newbies: one's a new superhero, and the other's a new dad.

Because he's also an orphan, Bruce immediately realizes Dick needs a dad. But because Bruce is a really screwed up orphan (and because he's very new at this whole "dad" thing), his goal of helping Dick is immediately screwed up -- it's twisted into an obsessive hunt for Zucco, which not only (a) robs Dick of much-needed time with his new father, but also (b) would rob Dick of any chance to avenge his parents (something Bruce really ought to understand, considering his experience with childhood oaths).

Bruce is trying really hard to do the right thing, but he gets it all wrong.

Dick then also tries to do the right thing, and he gets it splendidly right. Thanks to the influence of his biological *and* adoptive families, he gets closure on his parents death and also figures out the difference between vengeance and justice. In the form of his new name and costume, he even finds a way to honor his parents' memory *and* his new dad's life mission.

This kid has better prospects for mental health than Bruce ever did.

Anyway, all this is on top of the good points everyone else has noted -- the excellent work by the voice director and cast, the sharp new character designs and animation -- plus one of the most satisfying explanations I've ever seen for Robin's (let's admit it) classic-but-dorky name and costume.

We all like the episode because, alongside the great visuals the series has had for pretty much its whole run, the story and the characters now stand up to Maxie-Zeus- and Alex-Weitzman-style analysis.

And for overanalytic fanboys like me, that means this season should be a lot of fun.

Matsuda

09-29-2006, 05:35 PM

Well said Duckboy!

leftblank

09-29-2006, 06:40 PM

Meh, this episode had so much potential but the censors ruin everything again as always. That's why I have no faith at all in these shows anymore. Because the writers are stuck with so many restrictions.

Stu

09-29-2006, 06:50 PM

leftblank

09-29-2006, 06:56 PM

The Penguin

09-29-2006, 07:04 PM

The death is never actually shown, it looks silly. You see the parents falling and that's it. You don't see them hit the floor or anything, no paramedics, nothing, they never come out even and clearly say the word "killed", "died" or "murdered". They don't even show the actual funeral of the parents, just the end of it quickly. They tried to show as little of the situation as possible which is probably why they rushed right into Dick becoming Robin. The censoring was very obvious to me and it made the episode feel awkard.Your obvious censorship is actually called good story-telling. The death scene was much more powerful with the Grayons falling and then the focus on Dick. In the end, the death of John and Mary is about what happens to their son. Watching them fall all the way to the ground wouldn't made the episode better, it just would have been unnecessarily graphic. You won't even find many movies below an R-rating that show someone falling to their death go all the way to the ground.

Bruce references what happened to his parents and relates it to what happened to Dick's. Between that the caskets, I doubt there were any eight-year-olds wondering what happend to Robin's mommy.

Showing the funeral itself would have really slowed down the pacing of the episode. Despite the fact that there wouldn't have been time for it, I fail to see what a priest, the ring master and some random circus performers we never met would have added to the episode.

Undrave

09-29-2006, 09:52 PM

Everybody already said all the good stuff so I won't repeat it.

Personally I loved the way the death scene was handled (and was written AROUND censorship basically) and it's been years since I heard the word 'death' in a saturday morning toon :p.

I'm also VERY eager to see Batgirl and Robin interact...Batgirl is gonna be so pissed off :p.

So Mr. Matsuda (great to have you around BTW) what happened to Yin?

Ruseri

09-29-2006, 10:09 PM

I'm really hoping (against the odds, i imagine) that Yin shows up this season, if only for a single episode... and if i had to choose one, i'd definitely put her in the Clayface episode, so as to reunite Bennett and Yin :D

cavner

09-29-2006, 11:49 PM

You know considering the fact that the censors don't even allow real guns in show, they seemed leaniant on this one.

Without a doubt, the best episode of the series. I have been watching The Batman since it came on and haven't been impressed too much with it unitl now. Now it seemed to get rid of some of its kiddiness and act as a true Batman episode. I do like all the designs redesigns. (Maybe the chin was part of the Bat-embargo, The Batman has the villans while DCAU Batman has the chin :p) anyways can't wait until tomorrow to see the next Episode!

Cortez2301

09-30-2006, 11:26 PM

You know considering the fact that the censors don't even allow real guns in show, they seemed leaniant on this one.They better be leniant about the black mask episode.In his defense,he should have at least one gun in his hand.

HauntedLover

02-25-2007, 10:44 PM

Man, poor kiddo. I'm really glad that Bruce took him in. But then again, we knew he would all along. I mean, it's obvious. I really loved this episode! TWO THUMBS AND FIVE STARS UP! THAT'S RIGHT! FIVE STARS UP! I'm weird...

Haunted :brak: Lover

Wolf Boy2

03-13-2008, 08:40 PM

Is it just me or did anyone familiar with Spider-Man comics get an Enforcers vibe from Zucco's brothers?
YES, I DID! ZOMG, I thought I was the only one! When he cracked that whip, I really expected them to call him Montana.

James Harvey

07-27-2010, 05:45 AM

With today's release of the Batman: Under the Red Hood animated feature (Feature Talkback (http://www.toonzone.net/forums/showthread.php?t=271373), DVD Talkback (http://www.toonzone.net/forums/showthread.php?t=271374)), there's no better time than now to bump up this discussion. This acclaimed episode is included on the Batman: Under the Red Hood special Target / Future Shop home video release.

http://worldsfinestonline.com/WF/thebatman/media/gallery/talkback.jpg (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/WF/thebatman/)The Batman #40 - A Matter of Family
Original Airdate - September 23rd, 2006 - Fourth Season Premiere

When the circus comes to Gotham, ruthless crime boss Tony Zucco demands protection money from the Flying Graysons, a family of trapeze artists. They refuse to pay and Zucco exacts revenge, leaving, Dick, the youngest Grayson an orphan. Having experienced a similar tragedy himself, Batman is driven to take down Zucco and in the process discovers an unexpected bond with Dick.

Comments?