Do you consider "The pirates of the Carribean" to be a classic?

[Cortez2301]

I do.It is very worthy of being one.

[Dee]

Moving thread because this is the Disney ANIMATION board, and not for their other films.

[Cortez2301]

Moving thread because this is the Disney ANIMATION board, and not for their other films.Oh sorry.

[Dee]

Oh sorry.

It's fine--- I know these films are popular and I find them to be really well made, but they're more suited elsewhere.

[Lord Dalek]

The first one? Yes
The second one? Oh hell no!

[MR.MXYZPTLK]

Honestly? No. I loved the first movie, but was really dissapointed with the second. They probably will be remebered fondly, like the Star Trek films (Though I much preffered those films) I don't think it really deserves to be thought of as classic.

Though, who knows, I might enoy the third installment more.

The first one? Yes.
The second? Oh hell no!

Exactly.

[TheMecca]

Controversial comment, no spoilers:
Pirates 2 is a horrible movie, even worse than Pirates 1 which was pretty tolerable.
God help Pirates 3 quality wise, the most they'd be able to do to fix it now would be killing all the characters.
Classics? No.
No no no.

[Scirel]

um, what exaclty was wrong with 2 again?

[Lord Dalek]

um, what exaclty was wrong with 2 again?It was a shameless ripoff of Star Trek II.

[Scirel]

It was a shameless ripoff of Star Trek II.

Ah, that explains it. I never saw that movie.

[Cortez2301]

Ah, that explains it. I never saw that movie.ditto.

[Speedy Boris]

It's not on the same level of classic as movies like Citizen Kane, The Manchurian Candidate, Fargo, Lawrence of Arabia, The Graduate, Reservoir Dogs, etc.

I wouldn't even put it on the same level as movies like the original Star Wars Trilogy, the Back to the Future trilogy, and the like, where every single scene is classic.

Nevertheless, it's still a very fun movie series, especially the first. If only it had been about 20 minutes shorter, it might've had a shot at the second paragraph.

[Frank Castle]

Ninjas = Cool
Pirates = Yuck

I think we know where my loyalties lie.:D

[Hordesman]

It's good, pulpy fun with a cute girl, monsters and slashiness (Depp himself admitted to this). Good enough for me.

[CheshireKitten]

It's a classic for me - right up there with the original Star Wars trilogy (the less said about the prequels, the better, IMO), The Lord of the Rings, and the Indiana Jones series.

[Cortez2301]

It's a classic for me - right up there with the original Star Wars trilogy (the less said about the prequels, the better, IMO), The Lord of the Rings, and the Indiana Jones series.Thank you.

[Mynd Hed]

The word "classic" implies that it has stood the test of time; that it has found enduring interest with multiple generations of moviegoers and proven its quality by failing to be forgotten. IS it a classic? No. By definition, it hasn't been around long enough.

WILL it be a classic? Of course we won't know until a significant amount of time has gone, but for speculation's sake, IMO signs point to "no." It's not among the first films of its kind, so it won't stick around in moviegoers minds for innovation, and while it's fun and well-directed, there are dozens of fun and well-directed films coming out all the time. It doesn't really have any enduring themes or characters that set it apart from the masses.
In short, it can't be the next "Indiana Jones" because there already IS an Indiana Jones that has aged perfectly well. Sorry.

I say that with two caveats:
1.) It's a perfectly serviceable, perfectly fun, amusing, entertaining, well-acted and well-directed movie, and I mean no insult to any of the fine folks who worked on it nor to any of its fans. I just don't think it's SO exceptional that it will ever merit the term "classic."
2.) There's no accounting for taste, and the term "classic" is at times applied more for subjective reasons of a public embracing a movie than for any qualities actually present in the movie itself. In short: you never know, I could be wrong.

[JLApe]

...there also has to be concensus among film buffs, critics and the public (to a degree) that the movie is a classic. But with the majority of posts here affirming in the negative, PotC cannot be called a classic. To those that think it's a classic, what's your criteria? You only said that it is without really explaining why.

[CheshireKitten]

Didn't many critics dislike the original Star Wars films back when they came out? I recall hearing and reading over the years that The Empire Strikes Back received mixed reviews.

And I have to disagree that there's nothing in the POTC films that will make them a classic. At the very least, when all is said and done, the character of Jack Sparrow will be a cinematic icon in the vein of Indiana Jones, Vader, Han Solo, etc.....one that you mention and almost everyone will know who you're referring to and where they're from.

It doesn't need to be the next Indiana Jones. It's simply Pirates of the Caribbean, and I could be wrong (as anyone can), but I think that will be enough.

[Lord Dalek]

Didn't many critics dislike the original Star Wars films back when they came out?

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars/
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/empire_strikes_back/
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/return_of_the_jedi/

In short no, the backlash against ROTJ mostly swelled up when it was reissued in 1985.

[CheshireKitten]

Are all of those actual reviews from 1980 when the movie hit theaters? I'm almost a 100% sure that when it was originally released in 1980, Empire received mixed reviews. . I've heard it and read it time and time again. I was heavily into Star Wars before the prequels came along and soured my love for it. Some of the ones I clicked on RT were done for the re-release in '97

Time can change things.

[Scirel]

...there also has to be concensus among film buffs, critics and the public (to a degree) that the movie is a classic. But with the majority of posts here affirming in the negative, PotC cannot be called a classic. To those that think it's a classic, what's your criteria? You only said that it is without really explaining why.

Actually RT has it as above 50% positive last time I checked.

[Lord Dalek]

Actually RT has it as above 50% positive last time I checked.That's still rotten. And of those reviews, the only major journalist to give it a good review is Peter Travers :shrug:.

[The Landstander]

Also, there's a difference between "it's a good movie" and "it's a classic".

And as mentioned, you need some time to pass before anything could be considered a classic.

[Lord Dalek]

Also, there's a difference between "it's a good movie" and "it's a classic".And to further add to the point there's a major difference between a "classic" and a "camp classic" and POTC at best is more of the latter.

[Scirel]

That's still rotten. And of those reviews, the only major journalist to give it a good review is Peter Travers :shrug:.

I don`t get how RT does it. How can something be above 50% and still be rotten?

What is this, the Electoral system or what?

[Scirel]

I thought it was more like an academic grading system -- 70% is a C-, 60% is like a D-...

if it was that way then they would use letter grades. 60% gets the same "fresh" as 90.

[JLApe]

I said "concensus". It means you don't have to agree but you support the decision. It means you don't have to like the movie or give it a favorable review. Citizen Kane, for example, was generally panned by critics (probably under duress by William Randolph Hearst) during its initial release. So was It's A Wonderful Life during its initial release. Both were (much) later hailed as classics. As were Star Wars and Blade Runner.

Regarding PotC, it's too early to say. Give it time...like 10 or more years.

[Robin2099]

Doubtful. All three Pirates of the Carribean movies are far below movies like the LOTR, Star Wars, and Indiana Jones. The best that I could see them hoping to be a cult classics like the Evil Dead triology was. Actually come to think of it, the second movie reminds me a lot of Army of Darkness.

[Hades]

Not sure as I don't consider anything a classic. Movies that people tend to put under the classics banner stink (ET for example).

[CheshireKitten]

I disagree that they're far below Star Wars and Lord of the Rings and Indiana Jones, but it's all opinion. Unless AWE turns out to be hugely disappointing, Pirates will become my favorite movie trilogy, right above the original Star Wars.

It's just been my observation, but people seem to underestimate Pirates of the Caribbean and its popularity.

[Wonderwall]

Johnny Depp's pirate character, whose name escapes me, was an inspired classic creation. Here's how you can tell "Pirates" won't be regarded as a classic in years to come -- take Depp out of that movie and see if you remember anything about it. Would that movie have made a dime?


True, but that goes for almost any classic, Would Star WArs have made money without lightsabers and Vader? Without the charasmatic character of Kane, no one would even think about Citizen Kane. Casa Blanca wouldve been nothing without Bogey, Back to the Future wouldve sucked without the DeLorean and Doc, and etc. In short every classic has some sort of dependency on a character or gimmic regardless on how well made it is. I dont think there is a "classic" that doesnt follow that rule. Classics dont always have to be great cinematic masterpieces, just remembered. Do I think Pirates is a classic? Not yet but all signs point to yes, why? Its made a billion dollars worldwide, Titanic did that 10 years ago, and thats a terrible movie. Is it still a classic, unfortunatley yes. LoTR is considered a classic already, and the last one just came out almost 3 years ago. So is Pirates isnt a classic yet, but as soon as its out of theatres it will be.

[The Landstander]

Without the charasmatic character of Kaneteehee

[adoptedBatpuppy]

Perhaps a Disney Classic, but not Classic Classic.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

No. Jack Sparrow is a classic character, but this is not a classic movie.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

True, but that goes for almost any classic, Would Star WArs have made money without lightsabers and Vader? Without the charasmatic character of Kane, no one would even think about Citizen Kane. Casa Blanca wouldve been nothing without Bogey, Back to the Future wouldve sucked without the DeLorean and Doc, and etc. In short every classic has some sort of dependency on a character or gimmic regardless on how well made it is. I dont think there is a "classic" that doesnt follow that rule. Classics dont always have to be great cinematic masterpieces, just remembered. Do I think Pirates is a classic? Not yet but all signs point to yes, why? Its made a billion dollars worldwide, Titanic did that 10 years ago, and thats a terrible movie. Is it still a classic, unfortunatley yes. LoTR is considered a classic already, and the last one just came out almost 3 years ago. So is Pirates isnt a classic yet, but as soon as its out of theatres it will be.

But in Pirates, the story doesn't really work. It's overlong, and really, could anyone say that it had any memorable SCENES in them? Not really. You remember Depp, but you don't remember scenes.

In Star Wars, Back to the Future and Citizen Kane, all have scenes relating to the story that are memorable. Even Spider-Man has some memorable scenes, so that puts it above Pirates.

[CheshireKitten]

You mean no one will remember Jack's entrance in CoTP, on that leaking boat as it sank just as he made it to port? Or his "Hello, Beastie" at the end of DMC when he faced down the Kraken? Those are both very memorable movie moments right there, tied in with a classic character.

And the length for Pirates was fine. It sure didn't stop it from raking in a billion worldwide, and fans seeing it multiple times (5 times myself). It wasn't too much longer than Star Wars and it's shorter than Lord of the Rings. Both of those are considered "classics".

Wonderwall - Excellent point about the characters and gimmicks. Without Vader there would be no "Luke, I am your father" movie moment. Vader is what makes that scene so memorable. Behind every movie considered a classic is at least one memorable character. Jack Sparrow certainly qualifies for that.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

You mean no one will remember Jack's entrance in CoTP, on that leaking boat as it sank just as he made it to port? Or his "Hello, Beastie" at the end of DMC when he faced down the Kraken? Those are both very memorable movie moments right there, tied in with a classic character.

Aren't some of these scenes in the sequel? I thought we were talking about the original here.

I would give you that the sequel probably has more memorable scenes that the original (although just as muddled a story) but honestly, I don't see anyone parodying scenes from COTBP.

Obviously, everyone will have their own favourite scenes, and those are yours. But to REALLY make it into the annals, these scenes have to be parodied, ripped off by others, etc.

[CheshireKitten]

I'm speaking of both movies because I'm looking at it from a series perspective, but the original can stand on its own very well, and I could just as easily limit myself to it and I'd feel the same way.

Those scenes that I mentioned aren't my only favorite scenes, I could list probably ten favorite scenes, some more obscure...but those are scenes involving Jack Sparrow that I'm confident will go on to become those memorable movie moments that have been mentioned.

And I can very easily see parodying of Pirates scenes involving Jack Sparrow. Give it time.

[Wonderwall]

And I can very easily see parodying of Pirates scenes involving Jack Sparrow. Give it time.

Just for anyone who doesnt know, Paul Birchill from the WWE played a Jack Sparrow esque character. The gimmic lasted a few months because Paul got injured and Vince didnt get it. Tho the the crowd usually were pretty behind him. Take that for what you will, but parodying has already happened. Oh and one of the characters from How I met your mother also dressed as good ol captain Jack.

[purplehairedwonder]

Let's try and define classic and relate it to the film, shall we?

Main Entry: clas·sic
Function: adjective
Pronunciation: 'kla-sik
Etymology: French or Latin; French classique, from Latin classicus of the highest class of Roman citizens, of the first rank, from classis
1 a : serving as a standard of excellence : of recognized value b : TRADITIONAL (http://javascript<b></b>:lookWord('traditional');), ENDURING (http://javascript<b></b>:lookWord('enduring');) c : characterized by simple tailored lines in fashion year after year <a classic suit>
2 : of or relating to the ancient Greeks and Romans or their culture : CLASSICAL (http://javascript<b></b>:lookWord('classical');)
3 a : historically memorable b : noted because of special literary or historical associations <Paris is the classic refuge of expatriates>
4 a : AUTHENTIC (http://javascript<b></b>:lookWord('authentic');), AUTHORITATIVE (http://javascript<b></b>:lookWord('authoritative');) b : TYPICAL (http://javascript<b></b>:lookWord('typical');)<a classic example of chicanery>
5 capitalized : of or relating to the period of highest development of Mesoamerican and especially Mayan culture about A (http://javascript<b></b>:lookWord('a');)·d.300-900

Definition 1: (a) Standard of excellence? It was Oscar nominated, which is a standard of excellence, right? (b) It hasn't had time to "endure."
Definition 2: Nope
Definition 3: (a) Again, only time will tell. (b) Pirates are historical, but that's about it.
Definition 4: Nope, not really
Definition 5: Not even close

Main Entry: classic
Function: noun
1 : a literary work of ancient Greece or Rome
2 a : a work of enduring excellence ; also : its authorb : an authoritative source
3 : a typical or perfect example
4 : a traditional event <a football classic>

Definition 1: Nope
Definition 2: Not yet; it hasn't been around long enough to "endure"
Definition 3: Perfect example of a good pirate film... then again, "good" is subjective
Definition 4: Nope

[Mynd Hed]

Standard of excellence? It was Oscar nominated, which is a standard of excellence, right?

I'd hardly call that sufficient for establishing the movie as SO excellent that it should be considered "classic," though. There are plenty of pretty crappy movies that have been nominated for Oscars, and plenty of pretty good Oscar nominees from years past that aren't considered "classics" today.

[Silly McGooses]

POTC2 is my least favorite movie of the year so far.

[Crash]

Not enough time has passed for it to be a classic. But I'm going to say 'yes', it will eventually be a classic. Along the same lines as the aforementioned Back to the Future and Indiana Jones movies. A funny, exciting, (if a tad overlong) action movie that most of the family can watch together.

As for Dead Man's Chest's lukewarm reception...Well Temple of Doom and BttFII aren't as widely liked either. As long as the last movie is good, it'll be a classic. Eventually.

[CheshireKitten]

Just for anyone who doesnt know, Paul Birchill from the WWE played a Jack Sparrow esque character. The gimmic lasted a few months because Paul got injured and Vince didnt get it. Tho the the crowd usually were pretty behind him. Take that for what you will, but parodying has already happened. Oh and one of the characters from How I met your mother also dressed as good ol captain Jack.

I just remembered this, but someone was also dressed as Jack in a music video, and this was before DMC.

[Dr.Pepper]

I think they will be in a couple of years

[Lord Dalek]

I wouldn't call Back to the Future or the Indiana Jones sequels classics, either. Sure, everyone saw them when they came out, but I wish I could unsee Temple of Doom in particular and barely remember Back to the Future.Uhhh... Temple of Doom is a prequel. And what was wrong with BTTFIII?

[Captain Zechs]

Actually I think its really easy to remember scenes from COTBP, maybe you can't but I can.

[Cortez2301]

POTC2 is my least favorite movie of the year so far.The exact opposite for me.

[MR.MXYZPTLK]

POTC2 is my least favorite movie of the year so far.

As much as I hated POTC2, wouldn't you say X-3 was worse? At least POTC2 tried, unlike X-3 which was a series of fights with no real emotion (At least, thats how I felt. I can see why some would like it though.)

[Eidan]

I like how people are debating whether something is a classic when the film is still in theatres.

Let's try waiting a couple of years before we start debating something so pointless and subjective as "what makes a movie a classic".

[Cortez2301]

As much as I hated POTC2, wouldn't you say X-3 was worse? At least POTC2 tried, unlike X-3 which was a series of fights with no real emotion (At least, thats how I felt. I can see why some would like it though.)The reason I wasn't fond of x3 was because the story felt rushed.Alot of people died.No Apocalypse or any other villain or even Gambit.I think it ruined the franchise.

[MR.MXYZPTLK]

The reason I wasn't fond of x3 was because the story felt rushed.Alot of people died.No Apocalypse or any other villain or even Gambit.I think it ruined the franchise.

Yeah, I agree, Not that it needed Gambit or Apocalpyse, but the story was rushed, Ratner seemed to just care about action.

[Cortez2301]

Yeah, I agree, Not that it needed Gambit or Apocalpyse, but the story was rushed, Ratner seemed to just care about action.Well it didn't need them in this movie (maybe if there was an X4) but I mean every five minutes a whole bunch of people die.I mean that is too much.

[CheshireKitten]

I have the first two X-Men films on dvd, but I thought X3 was really poor: poorly executed story, poorly executed drama and characters that acted OOC.

I've only seen a few movies at the theater this year, but Pirates 2 is my favorite, X3 is my least favorite.

[Cortez2301]

I have the first two X-Men films on dvd, but I thought X3 was really poor: poorly executed story, poorly executed drama and characters that acted OOC.

I've only seen a few movies at the theater this year, but Pirates 2 is my favorite, X3 is my least favorite.Yeah you're right.The drama was really low.Well POTC2 is my best movie,then Comes Superman returns,V for Vendetta,The Da vinci code and X3.

[Anyone00]

Ask me again in 50 years.

And remember Citizen Kane is a classic.........and so is Plan 9 from Outer Space.

[g_UnIt_GaNsTa]

I don't even see any good parts in the movies except they end.

[Mynd Hed]

And remember Citizen Kane is a classic.........and so is Plan 9 from Outer Space.

I don't think "so bad it's good" films qualify unless they're intentionally so, since the word "classic" does denote "quality" as well as "enduring appeal." For example, "Snakes on a Plane" could become a classic, but "Battlefield Earth" can't be, because the former is intentionally bad and the latter is so despite the delusions of its creators that they were creating something decent.