NBC Talkback: "Veggie Tales" - "The Asparagus of LaMancha"

[Mr. Manager]

Some people were asking how they'll get away with religion on Saturday morning, the answer is that, well, they won't. Phil Vischer mentioned that at first NBC was pretty leniant, but lately, they've actually seen the videos and have realized "oh, this religious." so we'll see how much it's edited. Veggie Tales will be a lot different wihout the religion involved. I guess this means the same for Larryboy and 123 Penguins. I'll watch to see how edited it'll be. The time it airs depends on your affiliate. It also reairs on i Network on Friday.

edit: If anyone wants, they can make a NBC talkback image so people can use it for talkbacks for NFL Sunday Night Football, WWE Saturday's Night Main Event, Late Night with Conan O'Brien, Veggie Tales, Larryboy, The Office, My Name is Earl, Scrubs, Deal or no Deal, Twenty Good Years, etc., then please do.
double edit: I find it ironic that NBC was just fine with that program The Book of Daniel using religion, yet when Veggie Tales uses it, it's a big no-no.

[Tay the Cat]

I guess this means the same for Larryboy and 123 Penguins.
Eh, they don't have religious content as much as life lessons in general.

[Sharklady]

> ... but lately, they've actually seen the videos and have realized "oh, this religious." <

Then they had to've been the only people around who didn't know.

That's clueless even for TV executives. :shrug:

[Mr. Manager]

> ... but lately, they've actually seen the videos and have realized "oh, this religious." <

Then they had to've been the only people around who didn't know.

That's clueless even for TV executives. :shrug:Yeah, I'll say. Earlier I mentioned that NBC was just fine with the show, The Book of Daniel talking about religion, yet Veggie Tales isn't allowed to mention it. Well, now there's even more irony. Check it out. (http://www.philvischer.com/index.php/?p=36) Oh well, at least kids will see it and then want the DVDs/videos, so I guess some good will come out of all this.
For those that didn't want to read it all:

By the way, last week it was announced that NBC would allow Madonna to perform, on the air, the song in her current tour the she sings while suspended from a mirrored crucifix. I know the audience and time of day is completely different, but it is a bit ironic that telling kids God loves them is "not okay," but singing a song while mocking the crucifixion is fine and dandy. Let us Christians never forget that we are strangers here. We don't fit in. And that's okay.

[ltnut]

Anybody that gets offended by "God made you special and he loves you very much" has to have a screw loose. :sad:

I'd tend to think along the same lines as Phil Vischer though, in that if the edited versions cause kids to want to watch the videos, that they will get the message that way, and it will be worth it.

[Swordfish_II]

Earlier I mentioned that NBC was just fine with the show, The Book of Daniel talking about religion, yet Veggie Tales isn't allowed to mention it.There's a big difference between a primetime series using religion in a story telling way and a Saturday morning cartoon teaching kids religion. Some people get real touchy about stuff like that.

[Mr. Manager]

I only saw about three-fourths of it because of NBC News' special report of spaceshuttle Atlantis interrupting the show (I'm happy they're okay.), but from what I saw, it was still pretty good. I also like the new TV theme song, and although I'm not happy about the edits, at least kids will see it on TV and later find out about the DVDs.

There's a big difference between a primetime series using religion in a story telling way and a Saturday morning cartoon teaching kids religion. Some people get real touchy about stuff like that.Yeah, I understand that. But if it's okay to criticize Christianity in a primetime show, or mock Christianity in a song, it should be okay to teach kids about God on a Saturday morning cartoon. Shouldn't it? It's an annoying double-standard.

Semi-OT Note: I'm tired of that Qubo song. It's getting on my nerves.

[tb4000]

Basically Christianity has become one of those things that it's fine to openly parody and mock as of late, because as soon as you mention something is religious geared, everybody goes into a frenzy about being preached to. I saw the Jonah movie a couple years back, and while it is a religious tale, the comedy was on par with some of the Animanaics/Tiny Toons stuff.

[New Noise]

VeggieTales and Larryboy on NBC? What? Let me go and check my schedule... And they're editing out the religious parts? Man... Larryboy's not religious, so that should be okay, right?

[Donald Duck 12]

You know I am not that offended. Veggie Tales is still a Christian show even without the Bible stories. It still is decent and teaches morals, which is very Christian. This morning's show wasn't Veggie Tales at their best, but it was still fun. I do wish that they would air the Bible stories though, because Veggie Tales is really the only medium that can pull off telling them.

[Mr. Manager]

Did anyone else think that the way they promoted the Ryder Cup pre-empting Qubo fuuny? "Hey kids! Due to NBC Sports' coverage of the Ryder Cup, the Qubo kids block won't be seen on the 23rd." What was funny was that while promoting a golf event, they showed Jacob Two-Two playing hockey.

[MagemanSP]

But if it's okay to criticize Christianity in a primetime show, or mock Christianity in a song, it should be okay to teach kids about God on a Saturday morning cartoon. Shouldn't it? It's an annoying double-standard.


Think of it this way: what if there was a Saturday Morning Cartoon that taught kids about Buddhism, Islam, or some other religion? I'm pretty sure Christians wouldn't be too happy about it. If there was a cartoon that taught kids about Christianity, then people of other religions wouldn't be too happy to know there was a cartoon shoving Christian beliefs on their children, either.

I find it annoying when people of any religion, not just Christianity, think their religion should get special treatment because they believe it's the only true one.

[Mr. Manager]

Think of it this way: what if there was a Saturday Morning Cartoon that taught kids about Buddhism, Islam, or some other religion? I'm pretty sure Christians wouldn't be too happy about it. If there was a cartoon that taught kids about Christianity, then people of other religions wouldn't be too happy to know there was a cartoon shoving Christian beliefs on their children, either.I wouldn't mind. Others shouldn't mind either. If they are offended, they can change the channel or turn off the TV.

[tb4000]

Think of it this way: what if there was a Saturday Morning Cartoon that taught kids about Buddhism, Islam, or some other religion? I'm pretty sure Christians wouldn't be too happy about it. If there was a cartoon that taught kids about Christianity, then people of other religions wouldn't be too happy to know there was a cartoon shoving Christian beliefs on their children, either.

I find it annoying when people of any religion, not just Christianity, think their religion should get special treatment because they believe it's the only true one.

Not that I agree with it, but majority rules.

[Donald Duck 12]

And another thing to consider is that the Apostle Paul said that this is Satan's world. Christians won't get respect here. But we don't need to get respect from the world, we need to give the world respect and let God do His thing with them.

[Mr. Manager]

Not many people have talked about the actual episode in this thread. Does anyone have any comments on the episode itself?

[I.R Joey]

Veggitales without its religous element is just plane absurd. This isn't the first time this has happened though. I remember when the old late 80's/early 90's Christian franchise Magee and Me aired on Saturday morning. They took out every refrence to God in the thing. It was absurd, this is no less so.

One thing I don't get though? Why do people pick up shows that they know their going to have to edit? Veggitales is a religous franchise, trying to make it something that it isn't is just silly.

And I'm not sure how people would react to showing something like "The Last Prophet" (a Richcrest movie about Mohomad) or a cartoon about Buddha (I think there was one based on Tezuka's manga right?) It would be an interesting experiment.

[Tay the Cat]

Not many people have talked about the actual episode in this thread. Does anyone have any comments on the episode itself?
Sorry, I was asleep.

I wanted to see it though.

[Sharklady]

> Think of it this way: what if there was a Saturday Morning Cartoon that taught kids about Buddhism, Islam, or some other religion? <

I'd stand up and cheer.

In fact, if I was in charge of things, I'd make it a minimum requirement for all schools to teach kids the basics about all the major religions (not *advocating*, mind you; just teaching the tenants & histories.) We'd avoid a lot of serious misunderstandings if people were clearer on what other religions do and do not say.

[Anyone00]

Think of it this way: what if there was a Saturday Morning Cartoon that taught kids about Buddhism, Islam, or some other religion? I'm pretty sure Christians wouldn't be too happy about it. If there was a cartoon that taught kids about Christianity, then people of other religions wouldn't be too happy to know there was a cartoon shoving Christian beliefs on their children, either.

Yes like how some people get up in arms about how violence is being shoved on to their kids; oh, wait that's not considered to be shoving it on kids and when violence is edited out there's usually a bunch of people up in arms screaming about censorship on this board and you get a bunch more responses like this:


I wouldn't mind. Others shouldn't mind either. If they are offended, they can change the channel or turn off the TV.

Now how many of you reading this right now would be the ones up in arms about violent content being edited but are o.k. with this?


In fact, if I was in charge of things, I'd make it a minimum requirement for all schools to teach kids the basics about all the major religions (not *advocating*, mind you; just teaching the tenants & histories.) We'd avoid a lot of serious misunderstandings if people were clearer on what other religions do and do not say.

I agree to an extent but keep in mind not everyone agrees on the same version of history if not in the words but in the tune (this is especially true when religion is involved). When public schools teach a version of history (honestly there's not enough time to teach one of them let alone all of them in public schools) it basically becomes part of a state endorsed orthodoxy. Now what if the version of religious history taught in schools did not agree with you? Home school maybe?


Yeah, I'll say. Earlier I mentioned that NBC was just fine with the show, The Book of Daniel talking about religion, yet Veggie Tales isn't allowed to mention it.


Well I admit primetime has different standards.
The Book of Daniel is another good example of the incompetence of network executives. The execs wanted to make a show that would appeal to more conservative Christians like the ones typically found in the mid-west who watch less network TV because they feel morally alienated by a bunch of shows written mostly by individuals from coastal cities that were liberal Christians, agnostics, and spiritual flavor-of-the-Month people that probably hold the Iranian President in higher regard than conservative Christians. Did the execs get writers who shared or were sympathetic to the values of the group they were trying to appeal to and make the a majority on the writing staff? Nope, they got the same type of people who write all the other shows.

[Conan-san]

> ... but lately, they've actually seen the videos and have realized "oh, this religious.":shrug: Oh good god above (appolgies for hte off-cuff pun).

This reminds me of a certain OTHER company who musta done the same, they got crititaly panned for it.

Yeah, thanks a lot Jetix.

[Conekiller]

If there was a cartoon that taught kids about Christianity, then people of other religions wouldn't be too happy to know there was a cartoon shoving Christian beliefs on their children, either.


The problem here (and what many people forget, or assume since they havn't seen the show) is that Veggietales isn't pushing Christianity or even religion. Sure,t hey mention God frequently (I really only seeing this offending atheists or Polytheists) but rarely, if ever actually mention Jesus or situations from the Bible's New Testament (IIRC the Jewish religion shares the first half of the bible with Christianity , as does portions of Islam's teachings). The rest of the show is teaching values that are healthy for ANY CHILD regardles of religion.

The point here is that the show is out to teach family values and behaviors and not cram a religion down kid's throats. So if the religious aspect must be removed (and this really only affects the older, cruder episodes that did re-enact Bible stories) so that a wider audience can be exposed to positive behavior lessons, I can live with that.

To respond to the comment regarding complaining about violence/sex edits and accepting this kind of edits. We have to look at the target audience. Most shows that are edited for violence/sex are done so to market the show to an audience that it wasn't intended for , or the show is to be edited to a level that insults the intelligence of the target audience. Veggietales is for little kids, 3-8 year olds. If more kids will watch this show and walk away with a better understanding of how to behave, the show will have still done it's job and be considered successful.

[tb4000]

^People always complain that society is full of ill-mannered a-holes, yet when something shows up to counter it, suddenly it's preaching to them.

[Tay the Cat]

The point here is that the show is out to teach family values and behaviors and not cram a religion down kid's throats.
Not according to Phil Vischer, who outright says on his blog that it's about God. Period. 'Course, I don't agree with him on that (cause I see it vaguely but that's it), but since he's the show's creator, I can't exactly do anything about it.

[Conan-san]

If it teaches decent values then to hell with what it does get cut out with the sonic saysing.

To be frank, it might suck, but the anime comunity has come to live with the fact that they can buy the orgional articale uncut and if uncut = unatheitized then hutta.
I'm sure the soccor mums can bear to do what thier arch nemisis, common non-to-not obssesive relgious man does in regards to this thing.

Unless of course, it's a case of to hell with what the anime/whatever fans say, I want my uncuts, which in that case, get a life.

[I.R Joey]

The problem here (and what many people forget, or assume since they havn't seen the show) is that Veggietales isn't pushing Christianity or even religion. Sure,t hey mention God frequently (I really only seeing this offending atheists or Polytheists) but rarely, if ever actually mention Jesus or situations from the Bible's New Testament (IIRC the Jewish religion shares the first half of the bible with Christianity , as does portions of Islam's teachings). The rest of the show is teaching values that are healthy for ANY CHILD regardles of religion.

The point here is that the show is out to teach family values and behaviors and not cram a religion down kid's throats. So if the religious aspect must be removed (and this really only affects the older, cruder episodes that did re-enact Bible stories) so that a wider audience can be exposed to positive behavior lessons, I can live with that.

To respond to the comment regarding complaining about violence/sex edits and accepting this kind of edits. We have to look at the target audience. Most shows that are edited for violence/sex are done so to market the show to an audience that it wasn't intended for , or the show is to be edited to a level that insults the intelligence of the target audience. Veggietales is for little kids, 3-8 year olds. If more kids will watch this show and walk away with a better understanding of how to behave, the show will have still done it's job and be considered successful.

But the thing is that if you look at things like the X-mas special (the one I saw anyway) they're blatantly evangelical with their 'the real meaning of the holiday" thing. For me gutting that element is taking away a good part of what Veggitales is.

[IDistractedYou]

From what little I have seen of Veggie-Tales it doesn't seem to shove religion down children's throats constantly but it does teach basic right from wrong, BUT in today's sue happy climate mentioning God in children's shows is a no-no. (For example I'm pretty sure the X-Men SatAm episode where Nightcrawler first appears and the ending scene with Wolverine would not be shown.) As for the Christmas episode, other cartoons have done holidays episodes touching on the Christian aspects of the holiday. (Animaniacs)

I can't help but wonder though, since today youth oriented programming (When I say youth I mean toddler-8 years of age) seems to be so sensitive to avoid offending anybody's sensebilities, I can't help but wonder if this next generation of children will be unprepared for the world if taught by children's media alone. I think its important for kids to at least hear mention of things outside of their usual "bubble" (Other religions, other countries, etc.) as these things might perk their curiousity and what a great chance for parents to address these topics with their children and perhaps learn something themselves. To me not perking children's interest or making them ask questions, which is another way of learning, is far more dangerous than cutting content from a children's show.

[tb4000]

From what little I have seen of Veggie-Tales it doesn't seem to shove religion down children's throats constantly but it does teach basic right from wrong, BUT in today's sue happy climate mentioning God in children's shows is a no-no. (For example I'm pretty sure the X-Men SatAm episode where Nightcrawler first appears and the ending scene with Wolverine would not be shown.) As for the Christmas episode, other cartoons have done holidays episodes touching on the Christian aspects of the holiday. (Animaniacs)

I can't help but wonder though, since today youth oriented programming (When I say youth I mean toddler-8 years of age) seems to be so sensitive to avoid offending anybody's sensebilities, I can't help but wonder if this next generation of children will be unprepared for the world if taught by children's media alone. I think its important for kids to at least hear mention of things outside of their usual "bubble" (Other religions, other countries, etc.) as these things might perk their curiousity and what a great chance for parents to address these topics with their children and perhaps learn something themselves. To me not perking children's interest or making them ask questions, which is another way of learning, is far more dangerous than cutting content from a children's show.

Most people are afraid if you perk a child's curiosity, they won't grow up the way you want them to. Meaning, the way you did.

[Conan-san]

Most people are afraid if you perk a child's curiosity, they won't grow up the way you want them to. Meaning, the way you did. And that makes diversity a sadddddddddddddddddddddddd panda.

[I.R Joey]

Something came to my mind.

What about the Prince of Egypt has that ever aired on one of the major networks? (I know CN aired it.)

[SirLemming]

The Prince of Egypt would certainly be even more of an issue than this. Despite the artistic license they took with a few aspects (like Moses being articulate and being rescued by Pharaoh's wife), they definitely did not go easy on the God stuff. That is 100% Old Testament God right there, killing Egyptian babies and stuff.

Then again, I guess it doesn't really preach much, so there are two sides to the issue...

[Neo-Era]

^People always complain that society is full of ill-mannered a-holes, yet when something shows up to counter it, suddenly it's preaching to them.

Because often times the people preaching are the ill-mannered ones.

[Dee]

C'mon guys--

I know you can discuss this without baiting each other. Please keep it respectful to everyone in here, because everyone is going to have their own opinion on this.

[Caswin]

Am I the only one who thinks that, religion itself aside, Veggietales has gone down a few notches since they moved away from religious stories? I recently rented the Sheerluck Holmes DVD, which also had this episode.

Compared with their earlier work... this was just boring.