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View Full Version : Fantastic Four's Romantic Interlude: AKA Ben & Alicia 4eva



Arsenal
09-02-2006, 10:27 AM
The new Fantatic Four show is upon us and as part of the preparation for the premiere--along with Stu's retrospective--I present to you one of those threads where Arsenal talks about relationships and stuff!

Reed & Sue:
All hyperbole aside the Richards are the first couple of comic books. They were the first superhero couple to get married (edging out Aquaman and Mera by a few months). More importantly, while other heroes treat marriage as a temporary condition (for example Cyclops & Madelyne, Cyclops & Jean, Wolverine & the 40 wives he doesn't remember, Aquaman & Mera) that can be retconned later, Reed and Sue have stayed together doggedly... except for that time when we thought Reed was dead... it gets confusing.

Not only were the Richards the first heroes to make the altar trip, they also were the first to have a kid--Franklin Richards, the little deus ex machina. Once again, most heroes lose kids like I lose my walkman. (Spider-Man, Donna Troy, Wally West, Cyclops and many more have all lost kids because they were inconvenient to write around. Then Wally got his back... it gets confusing.) Frankling has remained alive even when his parents did not. (That whole Onslaught thing.)

Later the Richards also had a daughter named Valeria. Her inception involves a miscarriage, Dr. Doom, time travel and an alternate universe. It gets complicated, but I suspect the impetus for her character is Salvador Larocca wanted to draw what Sue would look like as a teenager.

The Reed/Sue relationship is the cornerstone of the FF mythos. Consequently, it has been translated faithfully whenever these kids pop up on TV or in the movies. On every show, the couple has been unimpeachable. They stay steadfastly loyal. That is, not to say some people haven't paid Sue some unwanted attention.

Sue & pretty much every villain to ever argue with the Four:
From Namor to Victor von Doom, villains love Sue Storm. They are forever trying to force her to be their queen or love slave or something else unsavory.

Nearly every male villain of the Four's has made a pass at Sue at some time. (I think Galactus would be the exception... even Annihilus tries to get a hug.) In fact, I think FF would have far less problems if Sue were a homely brunette. (That quip's gonna get me in trouble.)

The most persistent foe/admirer is Namor the Sub-Mariner. Sue even seems a little smitten by the winged-footed Atlantean. But her interest, at least in the '96 show, is never more than a fleeting infatuation.

Ben & Alicia:
The central conceit of this relationship is that beauty is skin deep. Alicia Masters is blind and works in sculpture. In Ben, she has a living piece of rock. In Alicia, Ben doesn't have to feel self-conscious about the way he looks. (Just the way he feels and smells...)

Alicia and Ben were translated very faithfully to the '96 show. She was doting and dependable. He was insecure and affectionate. They could argue, but they always worked it out.

Even when they broke up ("Fantastic Fortitude") and Ben was tempted by a She-Hulk, Ben preferred his Alicia. This couple is a personal favorite, because it is very obvious these two are not together for shallow reasons. And even though Ben can be a bit stubborn (I refuse to call him hard-headed; or Johnny hot-headed, for that matter), Alicia always seems to be able to disarm the strong man with a look or a word.

Alicia will undoubtedly show up in the new Fantastic Four. Likely sooner than later.

Johnny & EVERYONE:
Johnny has dated everone--even Alicia Masters... though it later turned out to be a Skrull named Lyja... it gets confusing. I think is while the real Alicia Masters was in space with the Silver Surfer... really confusing.

Some of the most important women in comic Johnny's life are Crystal, Frankie Raye, Namorita and Lyja... the skrull. Now, in clip show fashion, I will address these relationships.

Crystal. She's like that cute hippie girl who might like you, but she'll always leave you to save the environment or something. In the comics, they could not be together because the world was polluted or something like that. She went back to hang out with her Inhumans family. (The Inhumans are like the Mafia or the backhills of Appalachia... they want everyone to date in the family.)

In the show, Crystal and Johnny had a happily-ever-after until they got cancelled. However, we'll never find out how Crystal would have reacted when she heard Johnny got all hot and bothered for her sister (Medusa) first.

In the comics, Crystal eventually ended up with Quicksilver. That's right. Johnny was so much of a jerk, she left him for Pietro.

Lyja. She was a skrull. It was essentially a retcon so nobody got mad at Johnny for moving in on Ben's ex. She did appear in the '96 show, but it was strictly as a cameo.

Namorita. I think Johnny just did this to tick Namor off. It probably went something like this.

Johnny: Quit hitting on my sister. This has been going on for decades. It's really lame.

Namor: What are you going to do about it?

Johnny: I'm going to date Namorita, who is basically you with an "ita" at the end.

Namor: Jerk.

This dalliance ended when Namorita went back to Nova... no, not that Nova... though that would totally freak Johnny out--the New Warriors Nova.

Frankie Raye. Speaking of Nova. Well, at least, these two have a lot in common, being spontaneously combustible and all. It was magical, but then Frankie left him for Galactus (proving that size does indeed matter).

Frankie made an appearance in the '96 show. She helped him get through his doldrums of missing Crystal. And then she left for outer space (which, for the record, is a much better excuse than saying you're getting your hair done.)

She is already scheduled for an appearance in the new show, and I'm interested to see how she's portrayed.

Fun fact: Frankie Raye was also Nova in the Silver Surfer cartoon. She had a brief flirtation with the title character in said show; but in the 3-part "Down to Earth" storyline that was written but never produced, she was going to leave the Surfer for-that's right-Johnny Storm.

Johnny also briefly dated Melinda Forbes in the '96 show. He sang to her. The less said, the better.

While Ben has Alicia and Reed and Sue have each other, it seems that Johnny is destined to bounce from one relationship to another. But, then again, the creative team for the new show may have a different approach.

90'sCartoonMan
09-03-2006, 12:06 AM
Ya just couldn't resist, could you, Arsenal? Well, that was a quite well-thought out list. Who would've thought a team with only four members could have so many romances?


Later the Richards also had a daughter named Valeria. Her inception involves a miscarriage, Dr. Doom, time travel and an alternate universe. It gets complicated, but I suspect the impetus for her character is Salvador Larocca wanted to draw what Sue would look like as a teenager.

Well, that's why Marvel Girl was with them for a time, but when she left, they didn't have to have baby Val. She's a fun addition, though.


Nearly every male villain of the Four's has made a pass at Sue at some time. (I think Galactus would be the exception... even Annihilus tries to get a hug.) In fact, I think FF would have far less problems if Sue were a homely brunette. (That quip's gonna get me in trouble.)

Is it really that many? Annihilus?! What about Blastaar, Wizard, Mole Man, Diablo, and all of them? I always felt Storm and Cassandra Lang seemed to attract more villains than Sue.


Alicia and Ben were translated very faithfully to the '96 show. She was doting and dependable. He was insecure and affectionate. They could argue, but they always worked it out.

They had such a great relationship because their biggest stumbling block (pun intended) was Ben himself. One of my favorite scenes is in "A Blind Man Shall Lead Them" when Ben is thinking of proposing to Alicia, and even though he's human at the time, he still has his insecurities. Did you read any of Dan Slott's recently cancelled Thing series? It was quite good, and in a future issue, Ben was going to sing to Alicia ("My skin is thick and so's my skull/I'd never mistake ya for a Skrull").


In the comics, Crystal eventually ended up with Quicksilver. That's right. Johnny was so much of a jerk, she left him for Pietro.

That bears repeating.


Lyja. She was a skrull. It was essentially a retcon so nobody got mad at Johnny for moving in on Ben's ex. She did appear in the '96 show, but it was strictly as a cameo.

As a Johnny/Lyja shipper, allow me to fill in some of the blanks. Johnny married Alicia, who was retconned into being Lyja, a skrull spy. Lyja had a change of heart and tried to help the Fantastic Four, but after going to the skrull world, they left Lyja there, believing her dead. She came back, angry at Johnny and wishing to kill him, but she eventually got over it. She disguised herself as a woman named Laura Greene, who Johnny took interest in. Lyja eventually admitted the truth to Johnny, and just as they were reconnecting, Onslaught happened and Johnny disappeared. Lyja's current whereabouts are unknown.


While Ben has Alicia and Reed and Sue have each other, it seems that Johnny is destined to bounce from one relationship to another. But, then again, the creative team for the new show may have a different approach.

It makes sense for Johnny, though, being the young one and all. It would look weird to have him all settled down and whatnot. I'm looking forward to seeing what this new show does in terms of relationships for Ben and Johnny.

I.R Joey
09-03-2006, 02:04 AM
I love the Ben/Alicia relationship.

What I find fascinating is that Ben just keeps wrecking himself with this idea that if Alicia could see him, then she would run away. In other words the reason he's broken up with her in the past, the reason he never took the next logical step of marrying her is because he doubts whether she does or can truly love him (rather than having pity for him.) I know that comes from his insecurities, but think about this. Though she technically can't see him, Alicia is a world class sculptress who's sculpted many, many human figures with unbelievable accuracy. She's also sculpted a bunch of statues of her beloved Benjamin which were spot on. Therefore you have to assume that in her mind as she's sculpting Ben she's perfectly aware of how diffrent her would look than the other figures she does...

And she still stuck with him.

It's an interesting thing to think about.

RAINMAN
09-14-2006, 02:35 AM
Sometimes big ben character throw me for a loop in S2. He wanted to have a normal life as ben whit alicia but yet he wanted be the strongest thing on the planet? I notice whenever someone would say the hulk or thor were the strongest being on earth he would take it as a personal attack. Surley he knew if reed ever cure him he would not be the thing ever again?

90'sCartoonMan
09-14-2006, 08:50 AM
Sometimes big ben character throw me for a loop in S2. He wanted to have a normal life as ben whit alicia but yet he wanted be the strongest thing on the planet? I notice whenever someone would say the hulk or thor were the strongest being on earth he would take it as a personal attack. Surley he knew if reed ever cure him he would not be the thing ever again?

Being the strongest guy on the planet isn't the most important thing to Ben, he'd gladly give it up in a heartbeat to be human again. However, the Thing still has his pride. He's always been tough, whether it's as a kid on Yancy Street or playing football in college. As the Thing, he clobbered many opponents and even enjoyed it. Facing people like Hulk, Thor, or even Black Bolt that can match his strength is kind of a blow to his ego.