If Vandal Savage met Ra's Al Ghul -(Spoilers)

[Avaterian]

When Vandal Savage was attempting to overrun the world in JL's The Savage Time (before the JL 7 go back), what was Ra's doing?

My opinion: Ra's was captured and tortured after attacking Savage and killed within a month. Savage keeps the Lazarus Pits for experimental usage.

What do you think based on what you know of the characters?

[Alex Weitzman]

What would happen if Ra's met Savage?

Maybe some sort of Apocalypse. Nearly one, perhaps.

[Cortez2301]

I can't imagine what would happen.Though I do wish if the Apocalypse of '09 is ever revealed to us via Direct -to-video DVD,I want vandal Savage to meet Ras al Ghul and see what happens.Maybe the entire JLU (all 50 or more of them) will have a hard time stopping them.

[Alex Weitzman]

The juxtaposition between them would certainly be interesting, to say the least. Savage has been around for eons, perhaps even longer than Cro-Magnon man (I've always thought of his DCAU design being somewhat Neo-Neanderthal), but he is mainly pursuing control with no higher-minded excuse and has acquired no (visible) followers or society around him. Ra's has been around for a mere scant centuries, being not even as old as Jason Blood, and would be comparably the fresh young upstart on the block when compared to Savage; however, he's got an ideal to work from or at least preach about when challenged or called out, and he's got an entire secret cabal of assassins and established resources at his beck and call.

Age or materials? An interesting conflict right there, before they even meet and see how their personalities clash.

[tb4000]

We need a clash of the DC delusions of grandeur villians. Savage, Luthor, R'as, etc.

[Gpoliceman]

I'm actually kinda sad Vandal Savage never appeared in JLU. I was kinda hoping for him to be the JL's BIG BAD. Sure, I enjoy seeing Darkseid, but I wouldn't have minded Destroyer to be about Vandal Savage either.

Greg

[Anwar]

The juxtaposition between them would certainly be interesting, to say the least. Savage has been around for eons, perhaps even longer than Cro-Magnon man (I've always thought of his DCAU design being somewhat Neo-Neanderthal), but he is mainly pursuing control with no higher-minded excuse and has acquired no (visible) followers or society around him. Ra's has been around for a mere scant centuries, being not even as old as Jason Blood, and would be comparably the fresh young upstart on the block when compared to Savage; however, he's got an ideal to work from or at least preach about when challenged or called out, and he's got an entire secret cabal of assassins and established resources at his beck and call.

Age or materials? An interesting conflict right there, before they even meet and see how their personalities clash.

In the comics, Savage does have his own organization and men, the Illuminati.

[Alex Weitzman]

In the comics, Savage does have his own organization and men, the Illuminati.

Thus, the paranthetical "visible".

[Young Justice]

We need a clash of the DC delusions of grandeur villians. Savage, Luthor, R'as, etc.

When I first read about the Secret Society in the DCAU I thought it could be intresting to gather all mastermind villains from DC Universe:

Lex Luthor, Grodd, Vandal Savage, Ra's, Orm, etc.

Of course they will be united for a common goal, but have their own agenda behind it.

[Simon Trent]

Isn't Orm dead?

[Young Justice]

Isn't Orm dead?

He have fallen in a huge hole, but we actually could not see his body. So he could be appeared again, if the creative team decided to.

[Brainiac]

I'm actually kinda sad Vandal Savage never appeared in JLU. I was kinda hoping for him to be the JL's BIG BAD. Sure, I enjoy seeing Darkseid, but I wouldn't have minded Destroyer to be about Vandal Savage either.

Greg

As much as I would've liked to see him again, we got such a spectacular finish to Savage in "Hereafter." He achieved redemption. There was no need to show his character as evil again. Plus, I thought that was one hell of an ending for a character, especially in a comic book world where anyone can come back to life whenever they want. I thought it was a respectable choice to not bring him back.

But would I have loved to see a Ra's/Savage clash? You bet. I'm still a fanboy!

-Brainiac

[John6777]

Talia fought Savage's Daughter in Villains United. It was one of my fav parts of that comic.

[BlackoutCreature]

When I first read about the Secret Society in the DCAU I thought it could be intresting to gather all mastermind villains from DC Universe:

Lex Luthor, Grodd, Vandal Savage, Ra's, Orm, etc.

Of course they will be united for a common goal, but have their own agenda behind it.
Im not too familiar with Orm in the comics, but in the cartoon he doesnt come of at all as being in the same league as the other 4 guys you mentioned.

I wouldve loved to have seen some kind of story where the Justice League is incapacitated somehow and a group of immortals, both heroes and villains, have to unite to stop it. It would include Vandal Savage, Ras Al Ghul, Etrigan, etc., maybe an appearance from Mitch Shelley?

[Simpler Simon]

When Vandal Savage was attempting to overrun the world in JL's The Savage Time (before the JL 7 go back), what was Ra's doing?

In the Batman series Death and the Maidens, Ra's installed himself as a Nazi officer during the Holocaust, because Hitler had created a perfect machine for solving the overpopulation problem. He just went along with it.

I think there was speculation that Savage would've stopped the Holocaust just to keep from squandering resources, but I'm sure Ra's would've found other aspects of Savage's designs appealing to him (such as invading and crushing America, which Ra's failed to do in the 1880s).

[SuperBat]

I totally think that the Near Apocalypse should involve Savage and Ra's together. If they wanted to give us more of Luthor and Darkseid, it would also be a slam-bang finish to the two of them, as well as making the Near Apocalypse even bigger than we already imagine.

I think it would have to be something mighty big to earn a title like that. You don't hear any of those alien invasions referred to in such a way, and we know how bad they were.

[Avaterian]

Savage should have been in JLU.

Vandal Savage notes---
JL: Maid of Honor- the over twenty-five thousand year-old modern Savage,"...as I watched those around me grow old and die, while I remained unchanged.... I discovered the truth and came to accept my destiny." "Destiny?", Audrey. Savage,"I live to rule."

JL: Hereafter: Future Savage," ...but I've had thirty thousand years to reconsider." Superman," It took you that long to figure out you're a power mad despite?" Future Vandal, "It took me that long to figure out my lust for power and control was meaningless."

Doesn't seem like Modern Savage would quit after Superman and co. prevent his theft from Ray Plamer. Also Modern Savage has not thirty thousand +years to reflect on his bad deeds.

Ra's Al Ghul notes----

STAS: The Demon Reborn-
Added 8/31/06-------
Ra's speaks to Superman,"Old age, Superman, it truly is a shipwreck. One that I have survived for far back as I can remember. For centuries, I've kept myself alive by emersing my body in Lazarus Pits. Their wondrous powers rejuvenated me. But each time the effects were more and more short lived. Now they can no longer sustain me." Talia,"He's dying." Superman,"What do you want from me?" Ra's,"Your strength."
--------------

BB: Out of the Past: Terry speaks to "Talia", "I've heard about you too. You're the daughter of Ra's Al Ghul, one of the old man's worst enemies from way back. You helped the original Batman fight Ra's one last time in the near Apocalypse of '09. For the last couple of decades you've been putting your father's money to work cleaning up the mess he's made. Current residence is on 200 Acre Estate on New Cuba."

Added 8/31/06-------
"Talia" says to Bruce. "I did indeed survive our last battle but my body was broken far beyond the Pits' powers to heal. In order to save my life, I called upon Talia to undertake the ultimate act of loyalty." Bruce,"You sacrificed her... your own daughter!" "Talia","I did what I had to do. At the time, this computer could only imprint my memories on a close genetic match. But now this useful form has served its purpose. I must move onto a new host body... yours."
--------------
(9/1/06------- Rearranged spoiler feature, bold some words, and replaced misspelled word... I think that was all.)


(Hopefully I didn't miss-quote any of that. Did I use the spoilers feature correctly? Or should I not have used them at all here?)

I think a meeting of the two for '09 is possible but after Demon Reborn, Ra's is an unknown. I guess Ra's would win the fight if it was based on strength... but my speculation could go on and on until WB declares the victory. Then comes acceptance or denial.

If WB did make a Near Apocalypse '09 it should be 5+ hours for all the speaking characters, interaction, history, agreeable coolness. etc.
-------------------------------
Simpler Simon

Thanks for an answer. Ra's doesn't seem like the following type. How'd the story end?
What did Ra's fail to do in the 1880s?

[Simpler Simon]

Simpler Simon

Thanks for an answer. Ra's doesn't seem like the following type. How'd the story end?
What did Ra's fail to do in the 1880s?

The WWII portion of Death and the Maidens was a glimpse of how ruthless Ra's can be in accomplishing his goals:

he lets his second daughter, Nyssa, be tortured and experimented on in the concentration camps, and her family murdered in the purge. She later comes back in the present to exact revenge on him

As for the 1880s, in the BTAS episode Showdown it was revealed Ra's once tried to build a flying fortress and destroy the newly-built railroad to cripple the United States. He was stopped by Jonah Hex.

[Avaterian]

Simpler Simon

After reading that spoiler, here's a question.

Does Ra's not care for future family members at all or does he think he will never be replaced and live forever?

I thought you were going to mention BTAS: Showdown but wasn't sure. Haven't seen it yet but Ra's plan seems a bit much. Guess Ra's just wanted to be thorough.

Did Vandal ever have kids or did he decided against it?

[BlackoutCreature]

Did Vandal ever have kids or did he decided against it?
Vandal Savage has started many families over the years, Scandal being the most famous lately. According to a recent appearance in JSA: Classified, he will regularly eat his descendents to renew his immortality.

[Simpler Simon]

Does Ra's not care for future family members at all or does he think he will never be replaced and live forever?

In the comics Ra's suffered a setback in the mid 90s when a failed alliance with Bane prompted Bane to start destroying all the Lazerus pits around the world (sometimes with Batman's help). That was when Ra's started to realize that perhaps he wouldn't have as much time as he thought.

In Death and the Maidens, Nyssa severed contact with Ra's to follow her own life, and kept her infant son from being taken by Ra's as a follower. That probably contributed to his indifference to her during WWII.

As for the animated universe... Out of the Past shows that Ra's does have a use for family, should the worst case scenario come...

[Avaterian]

Vandal's diet is creepy.

Not sure who is worst in family values. They both seem to have that "I'm eternal, and your cannon fodder" attitude.

I can easily see one betraying the other after supposedly accomplishing their goals only to be stopped by the remains of the JLU.

A question I've wondered for these guys (and other super villains) is how do they gather henchmen or allies?

[HaagenDas]

Is this meetup pre or post ROTJ?

[Cortez2301]

Vandal Savage has started many families over the years, Scandal being the most famous lately. According to a recent appearance in JSA: Classified, he will regularly eat his descendents to renew his immortality.Hold on.When you said "Eat his descendants" it sounded like "eat his descendants".Please tell me you are joking.

[BlackoutCreature]

Hold on.When you said "Eat his descendants" it sounded like "eat his descendants".Please tell me you are joking.
Well "regularly" is probably an exaggeration on my part. It actually sounds like he uses his descendents more to replace organs when necessary. Actually eating them seems like a last ditch deal, but he will do it, just check out JSA:Classified 13. Lets see Bruce Timm animate that.

[Cortez2301]

Well "regularly" is probably an exaggeration on my part. It actually sounds like he uses his descendents more to replace organs when necessary. Actually eating them seems like a last ditch deal, but he will do it, just check out JSA:Classified 13.Thank you for clearing that up.Though I don't think I will check that issue anytime soon.

[Avaterian]

Is this meetup pre or post ROTJ?


You can answer it either way. Not sure what the point would be surrounding events of ROTJ.

Basic point of the topic is if Vandal met Ra's what would occur?


Well "regularly" is probably an exaggeration on my part. It actually sounds like he uses his descendents more to replace organs when necessary. Actually eating them seems like a last ditch deal, but he will do it, just check out JSA:Classified 13. Lets see Bruce Timm animate that.

I spy a horror film that doesn't make my list.

Although Bruce's style is cool, that Vandal animation be past, well, something that I don't ever recall seeing. I'd need a memory eraser.

[Cortez2301]

You can answer it either way. Not sure what the point would be surrounding events of ROTJ.

Basic point of the topic is if Vandal met Ra's what would occur?



I spy a horror film that doesn't make my list.

Although Bruce's style is cool, that Vandal animation be past, well, something that I don't ever recall seeing. I'd need a memory eraser.Maybe they will both join forces to use each other and then fight each other at the end with the justice league in the middle.If Darkseid returns that would be amazing.That would really be apocalypse on earth!

[SuperBat]

Maybe they will both join forces to use each other and then fight each other at the end with the justice league in the middle.If Darkseid returns that would be amazing.That would really be apocalypse on earth!
Exactly. The way I see it, Savage and Ra's could team up to do something horrible which could result in Darkseid and Lex's return/resurrection/whatever. Then when the JL seems to be losing, Savage or Ra's turn on the other. (I, personally, would like to see the traitor take control, only to lose it again at the last minute to the other.) If Ra's is the traitor, he can go on to "die" at the hands of DarkLex or the JL. If he isn't, Savage could "kill" him for all I care. Then the victor could go on to do something horrible before getting himself killed.

Yeah. That sounds good.

[Cortez2301]

Exactly. The way I see it, Savage and Ra's could team up to do something horrible which could result in Darkseid and Lex's return/resurrection/whatever. Then when the JL seems to be losing, Savage or Ra's turn on the other. (I, personally, would like to see the traitor take control, only to lose it again at the last minute to the other.) If Ra's is the traitor, he can go on to "die" at the hands of DarkLex or the JL. If he isn't, Savage could "kill" him for all I care. Then the victor could go on to do something horrible before getting himself killed.

Yeah. That sounds good.Are you kidding?That sounds amazing!The only thing i would like to change in your idea is that you need to keep Ras alive but close to death since he appears in batman beyond.He could be dying and is placed in the pit and when he stays in the same weakened condition he was in,he has Talia sacrificed for him to take her body.

[Simon Trent]

A question I've wondered for these guys (and other super villains) is how do they gather henchmen or allies?

That's a very interesting question. Being a henchman is one of the worst jobs you can have. Yeah, the paycheck might be good, but in order to get it you have to fight your way through an army of Superheroes to steal whatever glowing piece of junk your boss wants. And you are basically considered cannon fodder to be sent in, wave after wave to get demolished by Batman & Superman. Oh, and you have to stand around and listen to your boss's tedious lunatic ramblings all day without complaining or even showing the slightest hint of disgust, annoyance, or boredom.

Yeah, that really sounds like the life to me! Sign me up, Mr. al Ghul!

[SuperBat]

Are you kidding?That sounds amazing!
Oh, gee. Thank you. I've thought about it quite a bit. I'm just not very good at translating.


The only thing i would like to change in your idea is that you need to keep Ras alive but close to death since he appears in batman beyond.He could be dying and is placed in the pit and when he stays in the same weakened condition he was in,he has Talia sacrificed for him to take her body.
Oh yeah. I know. He wouldn't really die. That's why I put quotation marks around "die" and "kill." It would just have to look to the JL and the world as if he had died.

[Cortez2301]

Oh, gee. Thank you. I've thought about it quite a bit. I'm just not very good at translating.


Oh yeah. I know. He wouldn't really die. That's why I put quotation marks around "die" and "kill." It would just have to look to the JL and the world as if he had died.Oh I'm sorry I didn't see the quotation marks around the words.

[Avaterian]

That's a very interesting question. Being a henchman is one of the worst jobs you can have. Yeah, the paycheck might be good, but in order to get it you have to fight your way through an army of Superheroes to steal whatever glowing piece of junk your boss wants. And you are basically considered cannon fodder to be sent in, wave after wave to get demolished by Batman & Superman. Oh, and you have to stand around and listen to your boss's tedious lunatic ramblings all day without complaining or even showing the slightest hint of disgust, annoyance, or boredom.

Yeah, that really sounds like the life to me! Sign me up, Mr. al Ghul!

There could be comedic mini-series just for the henchmen.


Thanks to all for the replies.

[Cortez2301]

There could be comedic mini-series just for the henchmen.


Thanks to all for the replies.Comedic mini-series?That would be cool.How many episodes would you say?

[Avaterian]

Comedic mini-series?That would be cool.How many episodes would you say?


Something like 15 to 25 episodes seems good, almost like a season's worth.

[Cortez2301]

Something like 15 to 25 episodes seems good, almost like a season's worth.Wow.I wonder if they will show the henchman's living conditions.Imagine 3 sharing 1 small room.

[Avaterian]

Wow.I wonde rif they will show the henchman's living conditions.Imagine 3 sharing 1 small room.


Just to be clear:

There could be comedic mini-series just for the henchmen.

"Could" is the key word. I'm not saying this show will happen but your response seems like this show will exist.

Do you understand that I was just responding to Simon Trent's message?

[Cortez2301]

Just to be clear:

There could be comedic mini-series just for the henchmen.

"Could" is the key word. I'm not saying this show will happen but your response seems like this show will exist.

Do you understand that I was just responding to Simon Trent's message?Yes of course I understand.I was just having fun by giving ideas about the series that could exist.

[Avaterian]

Yes of course I understand.I was just having fun by giving ideas about the series that could exist.


Ok, well three guys in room is a start. I pushed the enter button too quickly.

[Cortez2301]

Ok, well three guys in room is a start. I pushed the enter button too quickly.Thats ok.

[The Guitar Slayer]

Q: What would happen if Vandal Savage and Ra's Al Ghul were to meet?

A: Imminent marriage for Talia; Savage is a man after her father's own heart.

[Avaterian]

king zrz

Just to say something about myself, I've been trying to write a book series (not henchmen related) for about 12- 9 years. Kept changing things over and again.

This Henchman idea should be simpler* to create but my typing skills aren't quick on these boards.

I had a longer response to Simon Trent but just deceided to delete it. It had henchmen D,G, & H listening to Savage's rants then fighting the JL. I think D was working so he could buy a chihuahua. One henchman was giving Batman directions to the weapon by "over the boxes, past the restrooms" but x-raying Superman interrupted and led the way. Then the henchmen were all going to jail.

Course this is all off topic.

*that's a big guess
_____________________________________________

The Guitar Slayer

I don't think Ra's would go for that.

[Cortez2301]

king zrz

Just to say something about myself, I've been trying to write a book series (not henchmen related) for about 12- 9 years. Kept changing things over and again.

This Henchman idea should be simpler* to create but my typing skills aren't quick on these boards.

I had a longer response to Simon Trent but just deceided to delete it. It had henchmen D,G, & H listening to Savage's rants then fighting the JL. I think D was working so he could buy a chihuahua. One henchman was giving Batman directions to the weapon by "over the boxes, past the restrooms" but x-raying Superman interrupted and led the way. Then the henchmen were all going to jail.

Course this is all off topic.

*that's a big guess
_____________________________________________

The Guitar Slayer

I don't think Ra's would go for that.It really is funny.A henchman working so that he could buy a chihuahua!He could buy way better stuff witht he money he gets.

[Avaterian]

It really is funny.A henchman working so that he could buy a chihuahua!He could buy way better stuff witht he money he gets.


Thanks but this should continue somewhere else, maybe World's Finest Writer's Corner?

I don't know if that's the right place.
Inform me by private message or another post in this thread if you want to do that.

Please respond to me by Sept. 9, 2006 since I don't plan on waiting too long.

[Cortez2301]

Thanks but this should continue somewhere else, maybe World's Finest Writer's Corner?

I don't know if that's the right place.
Inform me by private message or another post in this thread if you want to do that.

Please respond to me by Sept. 9, 2006 since I don't plan on waiting too long.Oh I think you should do it in the Worlds finest corner.You should specify which era it is from so put JLU.Make it a PG-13 story (or "C" as the ratings go in that section).I'm sure it would be cool.

[Caswin]

When I saw the topic title, I remembered a topic sometime back speculating as to what it would take to kill Vandal Savage, and the idea I liked most was a shove into a Lazarus Pit, where being the pinnacle of health, he would die instantly. This would be the perfect excuse.

[Cortez2301]

When I saw the topic title, I remembered a topic sometime back speculating as to what it would take to kill Vandal Savage, and the idea I liked most was a shove into a Lazarus Pit, where being the pinnacle of health, he would die instantly. This would be the perfect excuse.Oh yeah you are right.Yeah the living would be in a very bad state in the pit.That is good you pointed this out,Caswin.You are the smartest of all who posted in this thread.