Goku vs. Vegeta (possible spoilers) [Archive]

Dark Spider

01-17-2002, 10:43 AM

Dark Spider Poll- Goku vs. Vegeta... you decide

Ahh, Goku and Vegeta... the last 2 pure saiyans of the DBZ TV series (excluding movies/specials). Having such a title would inevitably pit those 2 together to see who is the strongest and overall beat pure saiyan. This poll is to see who you think is the better of the pure saiyans: Goku or Vegeta? There are a lot of factors to base your decision off of:

-Battles against each other. These 2 only had 2 real battle against each other (one in the Saiyan saga and the other in the Buu saga).

-Battle Skills. They are both very skilled warriors.

-Personality. Goku is innocent, Vegeta is constantly annoyed.

-Entertainment Quaility. Do you enjoy watching Goku or Vegeta?

-Other. Did I miss something?

Please post your reasons why. Spoilers are allowed but they must be marked. Please don't base your opinion on events that haven't been shown on American TV (ex: Season 6) and Movies/Specials, ESPECIALLY not movies and specials. Also no Dragonball or Dragonball GT since not everyone has seen all of them.

Side Note:
Why did I make this poll? Because I was bored and I kinda wanted to know what everyone thought of our 2 pure saiyans.

Also, when I mean PURE saiyans, I mean they were born from 2 pure saiyan parents or came from the Saiyan home planet. This term excludes Gohan, Goten, and Trunks from the poll. Also Raditz and Nappa are excluded because I don't want them in the poll :)

Zenogias

01-17-2002, 11:22 AM

I picked Vegeta, cause anyone down with Bulma is ok by me.

Evil Dr. Reef

01-17-2002, 03:30 PM

Vegeta. Badasses rule the planet, and Vegeta is their King.
Especially Majin Vegeta.

RogueMartian

01-17-2002, 05:48 PM

I couldn't decide....

Vegeta is awesome, he has attitude, he trains like crazy to become strong, and gets some of the best lines...
"If the reporters come by I'll just destroy them."

Goku is cool too. He is the strongest Saiyan and has a sense of humor. He risks his life to save the world and although he sort of is the "clown" that Vegeta has dubbed him, when the time comes, he knows how to put jokes aside and fight.

Overall I'd have to say I like them equally.

Skittle2021

01-17-2002, 08:09 PM

Athough Vegeta is a super bad ***** Goku is pure heart and good always rules over evil. :)

kiddiesunshine

01-17-2002, 09:04 PM

vegeta!! the royal warrior!! strong. determined. knows how to get things done. has that evil streak needed to survive! goku's ok. i think he's overrated.

Jowy Blight

01-18-2002, 12:41 AM

Vejita, because I just like his whole "I'm the strongest" deal and how he reacts to Goku at different times.

Plus, Goku NEVER did beat Vejita, one-on-one. :)

Dark Spider

01-18-2002, 07:18 PM

Keep Voting People! Now, for your reading pleasure...

Random Vegeta quotes:
-I am the Prince of Saiyans once again! (talking to Android 19 after showing off his Super Saiyan ability)

-How is it that the transformation to the legendary warrior of the saiyan race, is reduced to a child's play thing? (refering to Chibi Trunks, as Vegeta sees him turn into a super saiyan for the first time)

-Bring more egg rolls! (stuffing his face before the martial arts tournament began)

-The only thing that a saiyan has is his PRIDE!!! (yelling at the top of his lungs to Goku during their epic fight)

***
Nappa: Its too bad they all evacuated (after blowing up a city. Its obvious nobody escaped that explosion)

Vegeta: Yea, too bad its Sunday, or those building would've been full. (Yea, sure Vegeta)
***

- Trunks, you've made me proud. (talking to his son for the last time before his climatic exit)

I had fun with these quotes :)

Jowy Blight

01-19-2002, 01:42 AM

Vegeta: Yea, too bad its Sunday, or those building would've been full. (Yea, sure Vegeta)

Really, Vejita's an alien. He has no idea when or what a Sunday is. Plus the fact that you see a bunch of people looking at him a second before.

Dark Spider

01-21-2002, 02:16 AM

Vote some more!

Random DBZ/FUNimation quotes:

Tien-
Alright, I'm back in the saddle! Looks like this 3 eyed cowboy is going for 1 last ride! (about to avenge the death of Chioutzu)

Cell (from the ZTV Cell games spoof in Season 5)
Now that I've beaten you (Goku), I can blow up the world! Ha Ha Ha...ha............ha.

Krillen-
Now I lay me down to sleep... (saying a christian prayer considering he's from a buddist monk temple [its been stated])

Krillen One Liners-
Cowabunga
Mama Mia

A rather funny scene-
***
Gohan: Hey Vegeta , and this goes for you too boys (Goten and Trunks), but I think you will agree not to turn into Super Saiyans during the tournament.

Vegeta: Why not? (quite angrily)

Bulma: I agree, if you turned into Super Saiyans, people might recognize you from the Cell games, and think of all the reporters.

Vegeta: I don't see what the problem is? When the reporters come I'll just destroy them.

Bulma: Vegeta, behave yourself!

Vegeta: Then its settled, there will be no Super Saiyan transformations during the battles. Of course I'll still have the advantage.

Trunks: That's okay with us dad.

Krillen: I'm glad to hear that. You know, fighting a Super Saiyan is like fighting a steam roller with your hands tied behind your back!

Vegeta: Pipe down!

Krillen: Uh, sorry.
***

Krillen (after Vegeta destroys himself at the end of Season 5)-
VEGETA!!! (never thought I hear him say that)

Majin Vegeta

01-21-2002, 01:59 PM

muhuwahahahahaaa

I love myself!

Majin Vegeta

01-21-2002, 02:17 PM

Vegeta is better by far. Just look at any DBZ fav char poll and it will be obvious who is the better saiyan!

Vegeta and Goku never got to fight one-on-one and finish. Therefore, it has yet to be determined who is the better fighter. :D

And Vegeta is the cooler fighter by far! Just look at his fighting poses and his grim facial expressions, they blow Goku's away!

Goku can be a bumbling, naive idiot at times, but Vegeta is always cool, no matter what his mood. And his ego- no words can describe it!

Anyway, now that I have shown my fanatic support for the Prince of All Saiyans, I'll go. :)

EmoKark

01-21-2002, 02:42 PM

Vegeta cause hes a bad mother

Sumi_Masen

01-21-2002, 07:34 PM

VEGETA

Dark Spider

01-22-2002, 02:30 PM

Please vote some more!!!

More DBZ Stuff !!!
Dark Spider Comment- Krillen shaves his head?
Remember how Krillen said in season 5 that he has been shaving his head this whole time because he fights? Well if you look at yesterday's Dragonball episode (01/21/02), Krillen says that "Everyone that's serious about fighting shaves his head" as he refers to himself shaving his head. But then he also refers to Master Roshi as shaving his head also, but Master Roshi replied that he's naturally bald. But something I noticed is that in that same scene Krillin's head is shiny, but Master Roshi's head is not shiny (its dull). This proves that Krillen shaves his head. So if you think that Akira Toriyama (DBZ Creator) has made that Krillen shaving his head thing at that moment, your'e wrong.

Dark Spider Comment- Saiyaman (Gohan) and Videl's "Suggestive" fight !
In one episode Saiyaman and Videl were fighting and Saiyaman put Videl in that "women's hold", the one where you hold a woman by her upper arm/armpit area. Well that move had Videl "up" on Saiyaman and he started to blush and say he was sorry. At first, I didn't understand that scene, but I realized it was a "suggestive scene". I am REALLY an idiot for that one.
Also during that same fight, Videl did a leg scissors to Saiyaman. A leg scissors is when someone jumps up on an enemy's shoulders, crosses their legs around the enemy's neck, and then throws the enemy (using their legs). But in this scene, Videl just does the leg crossing part and punches Saiyaman in the head a couple of time. Well... when Videl crossess her legs, did anyone notice where Saiyaman's face was :o . That whole fight was just so suggestive :) .

Dark Spider Comment- Yamcha, desert bandit, turned... baseball player?
Why in the world does Yamcha play baseball now? Isn't it just weird how Yamcha was once one of the strongest people in the world, and now he plays wussy baseball (not to make fun of the baseball fans on this board). Its like watching Goku play basketball or Vegeta play football. Well actually I can see Vegeta as a football player, with his ego and everything:

Vegeta: This football field is MY HOUSE! If wants to get in I'll DESTROY them, (or better yet...), I'll SEND THEM TO ANOTHER DIMENSION!

But seriously, with all the powers Yamcha has, he'll easily be the next Ken Griffey Jr. (to name a random famous player), or make his team become the next Yankees. Yamcha will become super famous. He'll be the kid with the "golden arm" or something. But I see as unfair. He WAS one of the strongest in the world at one point. He can hit a baseball out of the field and around the world. I wouldn't like to have someone like that on my team, overshadowing the other players.

Wow, these comments are so random...

Evil Dr. Reef

01-23-2002, 03:24 PM

Originally posted by EmoKark
Vegeta cause hes a bad mother
No, no, no! You have to say it like this:
('70s Funk Base starts up)
Singers: VEGETA!
Who's the Saiyan who won't wuss out,
Even when Majin Buu is all about?
VEGETA!
They say that Vegeta's a bad mutha...
Vegeta: QUIET, YOU HUMAN FOOLS!!!!!
(Proceeds to blow all the singers to Hell)

Yep, Vegeta is the KING!!!

Majin Vegeta

01-24-2002, 04:32 PM

LOL!

Vegeta is the coolest, the funniest, the angriest, and the best character in not only DBZ, but in all of TV! (that is my humble opinion)

He is my rolemodel, because I have wanted to be the best at everything ever since I saw Vegeta in DBZ. When I'm working out (which I started because Vegeta's training inspired me) I remember Vegeta's desire to be the best, the prince of all Saiyans, and that gives me the drive to achieve and to work out longer and harder. Plus, I have a very Vegeta-like attitude in academics- I will consider people who are better than me as rivals, and I will try beating them. When I am swimming, ignore my tired, aching muscles and remember that Vegeta almost trained himself to death in order to become more powerful...

Okay, enough rambling. BTW this is all true.

Majin Vegeta

01-24-2002, 04:33 PM

Oh, and Goku playing basketball- he'd just fly up and score, hehehe. Air Goku!

Chris Sanders MSX

01-24-2002, 10:02 PM

Vegeta Hands down, he's hillarious a RESPONSIBLE father and husband and a pimp. I mean look at who does all the working. Plus Vegeta actually cares about his race, and has pride.. Not to mention the best movies and by the end of GT he's the strongest.

Vegeta is exactly as everyone says... The MAN !

SonGoku V3

01-24-2002, 10:21 PM

Wyloms

01-25-2002, 07:27 AM

Originally posted by Skittle2021
Athough Vegeta is a super bad ***** Goku is pure heart and good always rules over evil. :)

Goku is way stronger then vegeta thats why vegeta had to be controlled by Baa Baa Dee

William C. Maune

01-25-2002, 12:51 PM

[indent]Goku by far. He is the true hero and proves you don't need to be a "badass" to save the day. Goku uses his powers because he needs to, Vegeta does because he can. For most of the series Vegeta does not care about those around him. He let Cell achieve his perfect form. Goku would never have allowed this. It all comes down to what Piccolo said to Vegeta just before Vegeta died. Unfortunately I can't remember enough of the quote at the moment without severly butchering it.

Dark Spider

01-25-2002, 02:41 PM

Originally posted by AFXanatos
It all comes down to what Piccolo said to Vegeta just before Vegeta died. Unfortunately I can't remember enough of the quote at the moment without severly butchering it.

Here's my version of it:

Vegeta (to Piccolo): Take the boys and go far away from here.
(refering to Trunks and Goten after he knocked them out)

Piccolo: Oh course.

*A long pause in dialouge*

Piccolo: You know you'll die, right? (refering to Vegeta planning to self-destruct himself)

Vegeta: Tell me one thing, will I meet that "clown" Kakarot in the afterlife.

Piccolo: Here is the truth... Goku has lived his life protecting Earth and the lives of others. As a reward, he was allowed to keep his body. You on the other hand, have lived your life in pursuit of your own selfish desires. You have simply caused to much pain and suffering to others. You will not recieve the same reward.

Vegeta: Fine, so be it. Now go on, get out of here.

This is accurate for the most part, with some little pieces altered a little.

Majin Vegeta

01-25-2002, 04:42 PM

The music in that episode was awesome. It makes me gloomy whenever I think about it- it is that good.

Oh, see? There we go, now that music is in my head and it has made me gloomy, I can't get it out of my head, maybe because it is so good.

It is very deep and layered music, and very sad and gloomy. Perfect for "The Final Atonement". It is my favorite episode.

William C. Maune

01-25-2002, 08:53 PM

[indent]Yep! That is the quote I was looking for, especially Piccolo's last part there. Thanks!

Majin Vegeta

01-27-2002, 10:14 AM

In the end, Krillin actually cried out "Vegetaaaa!," which shows that he actually had grown to respect him.

A thought- if Vegeta's self-descruction caused most of Buu to be incinerated, would another self-destruct by Goku right after Vegeta's death have daused the rest of Buu to disappear? That would have been the end of it.

atari_14

02-01-2002, 05:29 PM

I voted for vegeta. It was a tough desision though. I mean they both Rock. Well, Vegeta grew up w/ the saiyans and he is the Prince of them and all. Although Goku makes one heck of a Saiyan he did only find it out in the Saiyan saga. and of course Vegeta has known it all he's life. :p

Sumi_Masen

02-01-2002, 05:34 PM

It doesn't matter that Goku found out when he did.......Vegeta would have totally killed them a long time ago if it wasn't for Gohan landing in him like he did........but then again, Trunks(future) or Goten wouldn't exist.......

Jowy Blight

02-01-2002, 05:37 PM

The music in that episode was awesome. It makes me gloomy whenever I think about it- it is that good.

Not really, it was pretty much the same crap they use all the time. The original didn't have any music at that part. Which, in my opinion, worked alot better.

Piccolo: Here is the truth... Goku has lived his life protecting Earth and the lives of others. As a reward, he was allowed to keep his body. You on the other hand, have lived your life in pursuit of your own selfish desires. You have simply caused to much pain and suffering to others. You will not recieve the same reward.

They were doing fine untill they got to this part, Piccolo never said anything like that in the original. He said that when Vejita died, he would go to hell and have his soul "cleaned", and remember nothing.

MeatWad

02-02-2002, 12:59 PM

I think Goku is the best pure saiyan,Because Goku isn't as selfish and rude as Vegeta is. Might I add,becuase Vegeta is too sure of himself,so that really makes Goku better.

Sumi_Masen

02-02-2002, 01:07 PM

yeah, but think about it.......if Goku didn't hit his head, things wouldn't have turned out the way they did......anyways, Vegeta is the SAIYAN PRINCE, he is supposed to be all selfish and arrogant and so sure of himself, that's the way he was raised to think, he's the best and nobody, not even that 3rd class Saiyan, can stop him....... :D

Dark Spider

05-04-2002, 11:11 PM

Hmm, since there are alot of new members, so I'm gonna revive this thread and see if there will be anymore votes and such. I kinda like this thread actually...

Oh, and I promise this will be the last thread I bring back :)

Gyro

05-04-2002, 11:31 PM

Vegita, no contest. He's got an awsome atittude, and will stop at nothing to become the strongest. He's got to be the best at everything and has the determination to be just that, the best. Plus he spits out those awsome quotes like nobody's business. :)

purplehairedwonder

05-05-2002, 12:29 AM

It's gotta be Vegeta. He knows what he wants, and he will stop at nothing to acheive that, and I respect that. (Besides the fact that he is the father of my man :p) I love his badass attitude. His way or the highway :D
*And referring to what Majin Vegeta said earlier in this thread: The music in Final Atonement was great. When I was watching it today, I was thinking about the music. It was very appropriate, and in the mood of the episode. (I really like that episode, though it is sad :rolleyes: )

Seafaring

05-05-2002, 03:50 AM

Goku in my opinion is by far the coolest. I love Goku. One of the reason is you get to see him grow up and mature. The fact that his family comes first, and that he doesn't take life for granted, and he knows that being strongest isn't more important than things like family. But that doesn't mean he doesn't strive to be the strongest he can be. Hes fearless, and is just a really fun guy.
I like Vegeta and everything, its just Goku is awesome. He would take the shirt off his back for some one far more needy than himself. Plus he only fights for a cause, he doesn't destruct things for the pure fun of it. Goku is just a really cool guy. Plus he has super cool hair.

Majin Vegeta

05-05-2002, 10:56 AM

I think Vegita is a far more complex character. Unlike Goku, he has his faults, and that makes him a more believable character than Goku, who is pretty much perfect and nice all around.

AlphaPrime

05-05-2002, 11:33 AM

Goku hands down, sure nither one ever won against the other but Goku always had a pure heart and Vegeta hasn't and one with a pure heart will always become stronger then one with out a pure heart, so far the only time i've really liked Vegeta was when he blew up trying to stop Majin Buu*loves the music of Funis that is playing when Vegeta does that*

I only wish they woulda made Gohan the strongest and not Goku oh well better Goku then Vegeta.

*remembers from the cell saga when Future Trunks blasted Vegeta and smiles*

Here's my order of fave DBZ chars

1 Goku/Gohan*can't decide on the two of them so they both get number 1*

2 Future Trunks

3 Piccolo

4 Vegeta

5 Tien

Ricochet_The_Sweet14

05-05-2002, 02:14 PM

i picked goku! i just think good will over power bad. :D

Fallout Boy

05-05-2002, 02:37 PM

Despite his final act of sacrifice, Vegeta has no honor. He is not a warrior, he a punk. That to me, makes Goku the better Saiyan.

Of course, that doesn't mean Vegeta is not a kickass character! :D

Meow

05-05-2002, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by AFXanatos
He let Cell achieve his perfect form. Goku would never have allowed this. Eh...

Well I'm not trying to start anything, but actually I think Goku would have done the exact same thing if he'd been the first one to fight Cell. He loves a good challange just as much as Vegeta does. They're both alike in that aspect. Remember when he let Freeza power up completely during their fight on Namek? He didn't have to let Freeza do that but he DID because he was confident that he'd win.

He's just as arrogant as Vegeta is, if not more so. :rolleyes:

Unfortunatly, Vegeta's the only one that has to pay for his "arrogance" because Goku always magically finds a way to power up and beat the bad guy.

And that really does make sense if you think about it...

Anyways, I think Vegeta's way cooler than Goku will ever be.

Djm912

05-05-2002, 07:41 PM

Vegeta was the main reason I first started watching DBZ. It was when he and Nappa were on Earth. I was wondering what he'd do when Goku(who I vaguely remembered from Dragon Ball) got there. He just seemed like a bad mofo. I've always liked him more than Goku and probably always will.

Funkatron

05-05-2002, 10:58 PM

Originally posted by Meow
Eh...

Well I'm not trying to start anything, but actually I think Goku would have done the exact same thing if he'd been the first one to fight Cell. He loves a good challange just as much as Vegeta does. They're both alike in that aspect. Remember when he let Freeza power up completely during their fight on Namek? He didn't have to let Freeza do that but he DID because he was confident that he'd win.

He's just as arrogant as Vegeta is, if not more so. :rolleyes:

Unfortunatly, Vegeta's the only one that has to pay for his "arrogance" because Goku always magically finds a way to power up and beat the bad guy.

And that really does make sense if you think about it...

Anyways, I think Vegeta's way cooler than Goku will ever be.

I don't think he would have.....he would have realized that a perfect cell would be too powerful than he could handle and try to end it right there

vegeta spent the whole time toying with cell, till he realised he could be a better opponent if he bacame complete

and GOKU RULES!!! WHOOO!!!

Meow

05-05-2002, 11:40 PM

Originally posted by ionspark

I don't think he would have.....he would have realized that a perfect cell would be too powerful than he could handle and try to end it right there

vegeta spent the whole time toying with cell, till he realised he could be a better opponent if he bacame complete

and GOKU RULES!!! WHOOO!!! I see you need more examples of Goku's selfish confident attitude. *cracks knuckles*

I'm using an example from a Japanese episode. I know most people haven't seen the original version, but I'm using it anyway simply because it's such a good example. Okay, rememeber when Goku told Krillian to let Vegeta go during the Saiyan saga. Well, in the Japanese episode he did it because he wanted to fight him again. :eek: He barely managed to survive that fight (he got his butt crushed to a bloody pulp :D ) and, the entire planet would have been destroyed if Gohan and Krillian hadn't come to his rescue. (man that wasn't a fight..it was an AMBUSH! I don't care what anyone says. Techniquely, Vegeta won that fight.) He actually let Vegeta go because he wanted to do it all over again!! Geeez this guy has a very strange idea of fun.

Don't get me wrong though. Of course I'm glad Goku convinced Krillian to let Vegeta go, but I'm just saying that he didn't do it out of the goodness of his heart. He did it for his own selfish reasons.

And THAT is why I think Goku would gladly endanger the entire world's population just to satisfy his own blood thirsty nature. I mean why not? He's done it before! :rolleyes:

He's no better than Vegeta is when it comes to endangering the lives of the people around him. And anyone who thinks differently has no idea what they're talking about. It doesn't bother me when Vegeta endangers people lives. I really couldn't care less. At least when he does it, it's funny. :)

Ex: When he was fighting 18. Did you see all the stupid people he killed during that fight. LOL!!

Anyways, I'm just saying that it doesn't make any sense for people to dislike/hate Vegeta for doing things Goku has done or would have done if he'd been in that situation.

Ravenger

05-06-2002, 01:26 AM

Originally posted by Dark Spider

Dark Spider Comment- Saiyaman (Gohan) and Videl's "Suggestive" fight !
In one episode Saiyaman and Videl were fighting and Saiyaman put Videl in that "women's hold", the one where you hold a woman by her upper arm/armpit area. Well that move had Videl "up" on Saiyaman and he started to blush and say he was sorry. At first, I didn't understand that scene, but I realized it was a "suggestive scene". I am REALLY an idiot for that one.
Also during that same fight, Videl did a leg scissors to Saiyaman. A leg scissors is when someone jumps up on an enemy's shoulders, crosses their legs around the enemy's neck, and then throws the enemy (using their legs). But in this scene, Videl just does the leg crossing part and punches Saiyaman in the head a couple of time. Well... when Videl crossess her legs, did anyone notice where Saiyaman's face was :o . That whole fight was just so suggestive :) .

Heh.. I actually had a screengrab of certain parts of the fight and know what you mean. I actually was going to use the leg scissors part as my avatar but thought to myself "Do I want to get in trouble for having that avatar or just get another one?"

Anyway, back to the topic. Actually, I had to side with Vegeta. Not to say that it wasn't close... but Vegeta can be just as entertaining as Goku with some of those wacky Vegeta lines that have been in the thread and that many more......... like these =p

---
Gohan: Oh, hey Vegeta. If your gonna compete, you should wear a disguise. Maybe something like mine.
Vegeta: Ugh! No way! I wouldn't be caught dead in that thing! Ugh!
---

Vegeta: Trunks is going to pulverise this noisy fool! World Champion? I've seen stronger house plants.
Gohan: Oh yea right, Vegeta! *laughs* Come on, jokester!

---

Vegeta: Well, if I have to fight Kakarot in the first round the first thing I'm going to do is punch him in the gut.
Goku: Ah man, no mercy.

---

Vegeta: Welcome to the end of your life! And I promise its going to hurt!

---

Majin Vegeta

05-06-2002, 03:49 PM

Vegeta was the reason I became hooked to DBZ.

We're both so alike. :D Arrogant, constantly striving to be the best, and relishing our talents.

Anyways, so the Final Atonement was IMO the best episode, even though it didn't have any action or humor (except Goten cleaning his ears). The whole thing was pieced together very well, and I don't care what people say, the music was perfect.

Chris Sanders MSX

05-06-2002, 05:43 PM

Vegeta didn't earn the nick name "The man" for no reason. The fans see Vegeta is the strongest (by the end of GT he is) ...

Goku's a clown plain and simple he just happens to be naive enough to find hsi way into power that Vegeta earned through much suffering,

bfmusashi

05-06-2002, 05:56 PM

Vegeta didn't earn the nick name "The man" for no reason. The fans see Vegeta is the strongest (by the end of GT he is) ...

Vegeta's not the strongest at the end of GT, Goku still is. Vegeta was never able to reach Super Saiyan level 4 naturally, he had to use a device invented by Bulma to enchance his power. Goku reached it naturally, and Goku also became immortal, after merging with Shenron.
Goku's not a "clown", and he didn't earn his power just by being naive. His power didn't come naturally, and he had to train just as hard as Vegeta did to reach Super Saiyan and the more ultimate levels. It was simply more difficult for Vegeta because he was exceptionally arrogant, and felt that he had to "prove" something to Goku. Vegeta's pride prevented him from ascending to the Super Saiyan levels before Goku, basically.

And I'd say that I like the two of them equally, since they're both interesting characters. (Especially if you compare them in the beginning of the series to what they're like now.) To be honest, Goku was always somewhat stronger than Vegeta, except when Vegeta was in Majin form. (Even then, Vegeta was only able to knock Goku out with a cheap shot.) Despite this, they're both incredible fighters, and I like 'em the same.

Meow

05-06-2002, 09:11 PM

Originally posted by bfmusashi

Goku's not a "clown", and he didn't earn his power just by being naive. His power didn't come naturally, and he had to train just as hard as Vegeta did to reach Super Saiyan and the more ultimate levels. It was simply more difficult for Vegeta because he was exceptionally arrogant, and felt that he had to "prove" something to Goku. Vegeta's pride prevented him from ascending to the Super Saiyan levels before Goku, basically.

Actually, Goku's power does come naturally.... Yea he had to work for his power to a certain extent, but for the most part his incredable strength is based solely on the whole "hidden power" thing. Vegeta and Goku were both evenly matched during their 2nd fight (buu saga). The only reason Goku's stronger than Vegeta is because Goku can go SSJ3. When it comes to actual fighting ability, they're both pretty evenly matched. I don't understand why some people say Vegeta's pride is what kept him from surpassing Goku. That doesn't even make any sense... Lemme lay it down for ya. The reason Vegeta's never been able to keep up with Goku is because Goku's the main character and the creator of DBZ wanted him to be the strongest, plain and simple. DBZ isn't logical. Don't try to make sense out of it. There's no real reason why Goku's SO much stronger than Vegeta other than the fact that Akira Toriyama wanted him to be. Personally I think Vegeta should be just as strong as Goku if not stronger with all the effort he puts into his training. I think it's pretty stupid how easily Goku leaves everyone in the dust, especially the Prince of his own race.

To be honest, Goku was always somewhat stronger than Vegeta, except when Vegeta was in Majin form.
Nope. Vegeta was stronger during their first fight. He whopped Goku good, and would have won if the fight had been one-on one like it was SUPPOSED to be. If you'll notice, Goku and Vegeta have never actually had an all-out fight with no interferance. Something always interupts them. :rolleyes:

Chris Sanders MSX

05-06-2002, 10:45 PM

Vegeta's not the strongest at the end of GT, Goku still is

Actually power level wise ,while the two are still alive Vegeta is still the most powerful, between the 2 Sayian Level 4 modes Vegeta is a few hundred above Goku. Thats why most people say Vegeta was stronger by the end of the whole thing.

I was going to mention that Vegeta was stronger during the first fight but that was done for me.

Hey but who cares as longa s Vegeta is #1 and according to the poll..so far he is ! :D

Majin Vegeta

05-08-2002, 04:33 PM

I think Vegeta deserves more credit for his strength than he gets. Goku doesn't try nearly as hard as Vegeta does to get his power level up. In one of the 43 new episodes Vegeta said that Kakarot was simply born with natural ability. Vegeta, on the other hand, had to work much harder to attain his level.

This is why he went Majin- to increase his power, because he knew that no matter how hard he tried, Goku would always be one step ahead of him.

Character wise, I like Vegeta far more than Goku. He is a believable character; like all of us, he has his faults and he strives to correct them.

Goku, on the other hand, is an extremely shallow character. He has no weaknesses in his personality (except his naivety) and he always magically comes out as the winner. Therefore, his actions are always predictable and unexciting.

For reference, remember the way Vegeta was like when first came to Earth and when he saw his son Trunks as a baby.

Then see what he does in "The Final Atonement". See how he has changed? His values are completely different, and he finally admits his mistakes and atones for them through his death.

Now, look at Goku in Dragonball, in the Saiyan Saga, in the Freeza Saga, in the Android Saga, in the Cell Saga, and in the Buu Saga. Practically no change occurs.

This is why I consider Vegeta to be a more complex, and thus a better, character.

Fallout Boy

05-08-2002, 07:11 PM

Originally posted by Majin Vegeta
Then see what he does in "The Final Atonement". See how he has changed? His values are completely different, and he finally admits his mistakes and atones for them through his death.

While I don't normally delve into the psyche of a cartoon character, I will say this.

Based on what Vegeta said in the episodes leading up to Final Atonement, I am of the opinion that saving his family was only partially the reason for his sacrifice against Buu. I think a much larger part of it was still his gigantic ego, wanting to show everyone how he could take down the villain by himself. That's why he refused Trunks' and Goten's help. If he thought for a second that they would have made the difference he couldn't bear it. He just had to show "that clown Kakarot" that he was truly the mightiest Saiyan.

Meow

05-08-2002, 07:28 PM

Originally posted by Fallout Boy

Based on what Vegeta said in the episodes leading up to Final Atonement, I am of the opinion that saving his family was only partially the reason for his sacrifice against Buu. I think a much larger part of it was still his gigantic ego, wanting to show everyone how he could take down the villain by himself. That's why he refused Trunks' and Goten's help. If he thought for a second that they would have made the difference he couldn't bear it. He just had to show "that clown Kakarot" that he was truly the mightiest Saiyan. Well, you can believe whatever you want but that wasn't it at all. Vegeta doesn't believe in kami kazie.... (he looked down on Choutsu and Tien when they gave their lives trying to kill Nappa during the Sayian saga) If he was trying to prove something, he certainly wouldn't have done it by blowing himself up. I mean what would that prove anyway? Anyone can blow themself up. (in dbz they can anyway :rolleyes: ) It doesn't mean they're a great fighter or something. It just proves their selflessness. (which was the whole point of this episode) This episode is very improtant because as Piccolo said, it was the first time Vegeta was fighting for someone besides himself. He knocked out Trunks and Goten because he was about to blow himself up and didn't want them to die in the process!

Vegeta DID do it for his family. This is proven without a doubt in later episodes.