"ECW" 07-25-06 Talkback (Spoilers)

[bigddan11]

http://www.wwe.com/content/media/touts/feature/29062/3092232 (http://www.wwe.com/shows/ecw/shows/ecwonscifi/preview/)
This week, ECW (http://www.wwe.com/shows/ecw/) on Sci Fi returns to its regular time of 10/9 CT.
In the main event, Big Show will defend the ECW World Championship against RAW (http://www.wwe.com/shows/raw/)'s Big Red Monster, Kane (http://www.wwe.com/superstars/raw/kane/), in an Extreme Rules Match. While no one has even seen Kane in weeks, Big Show is no stranger to the Big Red Monster.

Just four months ago, Kane & Big Show were World Tag Team Champions on RAW. After losing the gold, however, the two were at each other's throats for several weeks. Now, they will collide with the ECW World Championship on the line. Which 7-footer will walk out of Detroit with the gold?

Last week, Tommy Dreamer once again tried to confront Paul Heyman about his recent actions, telling Paul that he owed the locker room an explanation. Instead of that, however, Dreamer received a Kiss of Death before being brutally attacked by Test.

In the past, the "Kiss of Death" has led to the end of its recipients. In Biblical terms, Judas Iscariot gave Jesus Christ a Kiss of Death the night before Jesus was crucified. Also, in the movie The Godfather Part II, Michael Corleone plants a kiss on the lips of treasonous brother Fredo shortly before Fredo is executed.

ECW.com tried to get comment from Paul Heyman, but the ECW representative is holding the contents of this week's show close to his vest. Wiill we see the next chapter in this bizarre saga?

Find out Tuesday night at 10/9 CT on Sci Fi.

Penguin will resume the talkbacks next week.

[VCXZX]

So test and Mike Knox are a team now. At least they're combining the deadwood of ECW into one segment.

Next week, troops, the savior debuts. And the ECW workrate will never be the same.

The Vampire had an awful match. But it was great to see Ariel/Shelly have a very prominent role.

[SirLemming]

Aside from the overall non-ECW-ness of a match between a vampire and a guy who just got beat up by The Evil Boss, that was just a very stupid way to debut the vampire from any standpoint. Why have him fight a wrestler who is in no condition to wrestle? Does that make anyone look good? It's such a dumb thing to do.

[VCXZX]

Balls/Justin Credible was very awful. Justin doing his Randy Orton impression bored me.

main event was also boring/horrible. The last Show/Kane affair was better when they displayed actual wrestling moves. i do hope sabu is the next ECW champ.

Overall, this week's show was a total wash. next week with Punk debuting and the retuirning Kurt Angle, things will be for the better.

[email2003]

Overall, ECW is a total wash!

[Condiment King]

Another boring Mike Knox and Kelly segment and a rematch between two of the lesser talented wrestlers in the ECW brand, Mike Knox and the Sandman. The match was as good as the last one, meaning not very. Then Test comes out, and we have him grouped up in all this. Then Tommy Dreamer shows up. Who cares about any of this?

CM Punk with another good promo. Can't wait till he debuts next week. Sabu wants to challenge Big Show. At least now, Show will have an actual feud for the ECW title instead of bringing in guys from RAW (Kane) or Smackdown (the Undertaker) for a main event from week to week.

The Vampire vs Little Guido was alright I guess. The Vampire had a couple of good moves there, and I like how he does the old Razor's Edge. Otherwise, eh, I don't know how it'll go. I agree that Little Guido being knocked out was a confusing decision to me.

Balls Mahoney vs Justin Credible was terrible, and way too long, and another DQ finish. The crowd was very bored throughout, except for a small time when Balls started hitting him with right hands. Not saying the ovation was especially deserved. Anyway, bad match.

Kurt Angle is returning next week. Maybe he, along with CM Punk, can make for some good matches on this show.

Big Show vs Kane was another boring main event that seemed to last forever. Man, they took SO LONG setting up that table spot, and Kane took like four chairshots to just make Big Show deadweight onto the tables. At least we have Show/Sabu set up after this match (though I can't say those will be exceptional matches either, but at least they are over and both ECW).

With ECW still really early in the developmental stages and Smackdown basically injured as a whole, I'm not seeing the point anymore.

[SirLemming]

Overall, this week's show was a total wash. next week with Punk debuting and the retuirning Kurt Angle, things will be for the better.
Indeed, I do believe we are seeing something decent on the horizon while in this wilderness. I'm just not sure why CM Punk isn't there NOW. But at least two of the four promo-ers debuted tonight; Balls (sort of) and the vampire.

And Sabu BETTER feud with Big Show.

[The Penguin]

I don’t believe we saw Mickey Henson on RAW this week so I’m thinking that as one of the more senior referees on the roster, he has been upgraded to the head of the smaller ECW crew.

After they beat down the man least equipped to compete under normal rules (Sandman), I had a feeling Test and Knox were forming some “anti-ECW” force and their conversation after the break more or less confirmed that. This could be really good, or it could be another thing nobody likes.

The countdown has officially begun for C.M. Punk! I hope he gets a good opponent in seven days, I really want to see what this guy can do.

After his Heyman-ordered beat down, Guido was easy prey for… Count Fertig von Mordecai? Can’t we give this guy a name?! Well, the vampire had a nice showcase in his in-ring debut. I see he’s still using the Crucifix Drop/Razor’s Edge as his finisher. Seems appropriate.

So I figured it by myself, with C.M. Punk on the roster, WWE didn’t want Shannon Moore to be “The Prince of Punk” that would have been confusing. :shrug: Brought to you by the same people who brought you William “we have too many guys named Steven” Regal and Gregory “we’ve already got a Shane” Helms.

Balls wasn’t very kind to Justin Credible or referee Mike Posey after that chair made its way into the ring. We can talk this ‘Extreme Rules’ BS to death, but a guy who normally carries around a chair with name written on it doesn’t belong in a traditional rules match. And I was never a big fan of Credible, but I’d like to see him actually do something.

Should be good have Angle back next Tuesday, little bit less of gap in the ECW brand unless they send him back to SmackDown!

Big Show’s involvement promises high impact main events, but that guarantee goes up when Kane is across the ring from him. Pretty good “big man” match between the two. I see the guys from the other brands as a good cross-promotion while giving Show a real challenge. Sabu’s involvement tonight showed us the light at the end of the tunnel and I think also served as a reminder that he is the only man on the roster capable of mounting a real challenge to the ECW World Title.

[Jude Santos]

...unlike here in the TZ forums, I actually enjoyed the show. It was a fun show. That razor's edge from Vampire Fertig was sick and I enjoyed the Balls/Credible match. Kane was really impressive as well. Regardless...

You guys have to realize after so many weeks, that this IS NOT THE OLD ECW. Yes, it's called ECW, but just take in the fact that this is WWE's third brand. Maybe once people realize that, they can enjoy the show. I don't blame people though, it's just bitterness over the fact that they don't see what they want to see (stole that quote from someone in lordsofpain.)

I mean seriously, ECW is easily the best wrestling brand in the WWE.

Oh, why do I see "ecw will be dead" soon when the ratings are twice as much as TNA AND rivals Smackdowns? It just doesn't add up:shrug:

[Condiment King]

...unlike here in the TZ forums, I actually enjoyed the show. It was a fun show. That razor's edge from Vampire Fertig was sick and I enjoyed the Balls/Credible match. Kane was really impressive as well. Regardless...

You guys have to realize after so many weeks, that this IS NOT THE OLD ECW. Yes, it's called ECW, but just take in the fact that this is WWE's third brand. Maybe once people realize that, they can enjoy the show. I don't blame people though, it's just bitterness over the fact that they don't see what they want to see (stole that quote from someone in lordsofpain.)

I mean seriously, ECW is easily the best wrestling brand in the WWE.

Oh, why do I see "ecw will be dead" soon when the ratings are twice as much as TNA AND rivals Smackdowns? It just doesn't add up:shrug:
I half enjoy RAW, and I've half enjoyed what I've seen of Smackdown. I haven't really enjoyed much of ECW. Its probably my least favorite brand. I'm not looking for the old ECW, because I wasn't a big fan of what I saw of the old ECW either. I just don't enjoy this because the matches are usually bad.

I mean, seriously, I'd take Carlito/Shelton and Highlanders/Squad over Knox/Sandman and Mahoney/Credible every day of the week.

[PTurkey]

I marked for Balls blasting the ref with the chair and saying what's on everybody's mind. At least somebody on ECW acknowledges the stupidity of having DQs in an ECW ring.

Mordecai's hanging Stunner thing and modified Razor's Edge were quite awesome. But other than that, can't really tell if he's improved since last time, what with him wrestling dead weight and all.


So I figured it by myself, with C.M. Punk on the roster, WWE didn’t want Shannon Moore to be “The Prince of Punk” that would have been confusing. :shrug: Brought to you by the same people who brought you William “we have too many guys named Steven” Regal and Gregory “we’ve already got a Shane” Helms. I kinda figured that too. But how in the world did they have so many Chrises without thinking they'd confuse somebody? (Jericho, Benoit, -tian, Nowinski, -ty Hemme...)

And Jude, watch SmackDown. The wrestling there's a dozen times better than this.

[SirLemming]

...unlike here in the TZ forums, I actually enjoyed the show. It was a fun show. That razor's edge from Vampire Fertig was sick and I enjoyed the Balls/Credible match. Kane was really impressive as well. Regardless...

You guys have to realize after so many weeks, that this IS NOT THE OLD ECW. Yes, it's called ECW, but just take in the fact that this is WWE's third brand. Maybe once people realize that, they can enjoy the show. I don't blame people though, it's just bitterness over the fact that they don't see what they want to see (stole that quote from someone in lordsofpain.)

I mean seriously, ECW is easily the best wrestling brand in the WWE.

Oh, why do I see "ecw will be dead" soon when the ratings are twice as much as TNA AND rivals Smackdowns? It just doesn't add up:shrug:
Sorry, I disagree. I think Smackdown is definitely better and even Raw is better. ECW doesn't have to be the old ECW, but if it's not at least different, then there's no point to it. So far, the main difference is that it's even more confused and directionless than the WWE brands. Right now it feels like it's just another WWE show and they're pretending it's another federation. And of course, it IS. But it shouldn't seem like that. If the show doesn't have a distinctly different creative direction, it's just a joke. It flies in the face of ECW's "brutally honest" attitude.

[Jude Santos]

I just don't enjoy this because the matches are usually bad.

I don't know what you were watching, but ECW on SciFi has given us great main events (in which I might add, had around 15 mins each) in Big Show vs. Flair, Orton/Edge vs. Angle/RVD, RVD vs. Angle, and hell, the second [personal opinion] WWECW show was better than any RAW or SD! show this year[/po]. I do admit that last weeks show had bad matches, I thought that this week's was better as I enjoyed that matches.


but if it's not at least different, then there's no point to it. So far, the main difference is that it's even more confused and directionless than the WWE brands. Right now it feels like it's just another WWE show and they're pretending it's another federation. And of course, it IS. But it shouldn't seem like that.
That's the main point and why I wrote what I wrote. It's not going to be any different becuase it IS just another WWE show. And I'm just saying that maybe, if you stop expecting it to be different, then maybe people will enjoy it for what it is.

and for the record, and not directed to the two quoted above, ECW is not going to die unless Vince decides to, NOT becuase the independent wrestling circuit fans* says so

*which is surprising since a lot of the indendent fans liked tonights show, judging from the lurking I did in IWC forums earlier tonite

[SirLemming]

That's the main point and why I wrote what I wrote. It's not going to be any different becuase it IS just another WWE show. And I'm just saying that maybe, if you stop expecting it to be different, then maybe people will enjoy it for what it is. And my point is that if that's what it is, it is crap, in my opinion. The implicit question here is "Would you rather not have it at all?" and my answer is "Yes". If it doesn't improve (and I think it will), it'll be a waste of resources, especially if the Smackdown Curse continues.

And you're not going to change anyone's mind by just saying "they've had great main events"... I don't really think they were great. Not that that's the main problem.

[Jude Santos]

And my point is that if that's what it is, it is crap. The implicit question here is "Would you rather not have it at all?" and my answer is "Yes". If it doesn't improve (and I think it will), it'll be a waste of resources, especially if the Smackdown Curse continues.
Do you seriously believe that ECW will be any different than the two other WWE brands? This ECW will and always will be just another WWE brand (it's not going to be independent-style all of a sudden.) It doesn't matter if they do the Old ECW vs. Heyman's new breed or if CM Punk debuts (speaking of which, I would love to see Angle vs. CM Punk next week...hopefully)
Also, I am not trying to change anyone's minds by saying "blah vs blah was good" that was merely to imply that the show HAS given us great matches.
Don't get me wrong either, I'm just as pissed as the next guy about a DQ in an ECW show, but the thing I'm saying is (not to you directly) stop expecting this or that or this should be like this or that, just watch the show like it wasn't named ECW (even though it is.)

Oh as a waste of resources, oh please, they have an army of hungry guys waiting in OVW and DSW.

[Condiment King]

I don't understand. If ECW is "just another WWE brand" like you say, then what's the point of having it? What's the point of hiring all that mediocre/aging talent to get it off the ground? There were still some people that debated that the WWE product was watered down with the brand extension (such as the tag team division and the IC/US divisions). Wouldn't just adding a third brand augment this problem? I'm with SirLemming, I'd rather it go back to just two brands and have a stronger RAW and a stronger Smackdown. If its just another WWE brand, you could have just hired Paul Heyman back to work on the product and taken RAW or Smackdown in a new direction.

And I'm not bringing any preconcieved notions about ECW into this. If it was named "WWE Tuesday Night Velocity", I'd have the basic same opinion. If anything, the ECW name just makes it annoying to me because it causes Joey Styles and Tazz to go on and on about it.

[SirLemming]

Do you seriously believe that ECW will be any different than the two other WWE brands? This ECW will and always will be just another WWE brand (it's not going to be independent-style all of a sudden.) It doesn't matter if they do the Old ECW vs. Heyman's new breed or if CM Punk debuts (speaking of which, I would love to see Angle vs. CM Punk next week...hopefully)
Why shouldn't it be different? They have the opportunity to do something different and they're presenting it as something different. Thus I'm disappointed when it isn't all that different. (And when it's a bad show simply by general pro wrestling standards, which I do believe has been the case.)
Here's an extremely nerdy analogy: Star Trek: Deep Space 9 took place on a space station rather than a starship (like Star Trek and Star Trek: The Next Generation). It'd be disappointing for them not to do different types of shows & storylines in their new setting. What would be the point? (Fortunately, in my opinion, the show lived up to its potential and then some.) This is how I feel about the ECW thing, although you do have to knock the artistic expectations down a few notches in the analogic translation.

Basically, I don't think the WWE in its current state has what it takes to run three shows whose only real differences are their exclusive rosters. If ECW isn't going to live up to its potential to be a different type of show, I'd rather they just can it and put more energy into improving their preexisting shows, which need help (Raw more on the creative front, Smackdown more on the "DEAR GOD SAVE US!" front).
Or, even better, they could focus more on those two shows anyway and leave Paul Heyman to control ECW... (Unless he is already, in which case I don't know what to say...)

[Robin2099]

I don't understand. If ECW is "just another WWE brand" like you say, then what's the point of having it? What's the point of hiring all that mediocre/aging talent to get it off the ground? There were still some people that debated that the WWE product was watered down with the brand extension (such as the tag team division and the IC/US divisions). Wouldn't just adding a third brand augment this problem? I'm with SirLemming, I'd rather it go back to just two brands and have a stronger RAW and a stronger Smackdown. If its just another WWE brand, you could have just hired Paul Heyman back to work on the product and taken RAW or Smackdown in a new direction.

And I'm not bringing any preconcieved notions about ECW into this. If it was named "WWE Tuesday Night Velocity", I'd have the basic same opinion. If anything, the ECW name just makes it annoying to me because it causes Joey Styles and Tazz to go on and on about it. Easy. Because Vince doesn't want a unique wrestling product, he wants a third WWE brand show. And if Vince wants that, then Vince will get that.

[Sigma]

So I figured it by myself, with C.M. Punk on the roster, WWE didn’t want Shannon Moore to be “The Prince of Punk” that would have been confusing. :shrug: Brought to you by the same people who brought you William “we have too many guys named Steven” Regal and Gregory “we’ve already got a Shane” Helms.
The reason Shannon Moore isn't called the "The Prince of Punk" is because TNA trademarked the name during Moore's short stint with the company.

[Hyper Shadow X]

get the belt of the big show.

[Punisher]

It may seem strange, but the only part of the show I really enjoyed was the Vampire match. He managed to pull out some impressive moves, and even though it would have been better if Guido hadn't been needlessly beaten up beforehand, he still managed to get some(although very little) offense in. It was good to see the Razor's Edge; I knew he was going to do as soon as Guido went up.

Everything else was meh. Kane and Big Show put on a better main event then last week, but that's really not saying much. The opening was god-awful, and Balls-Credible was merely mediocre. The only saving grace of that match was that Balls got to nail the ref for enforcing these dumb rules.

[hobbyfan]

I missed the show this week. I took my girlfriend to a ballgame that took longer than usual for a minor league 9-inning game.

Based on what I'm reading here, Little Guido took up the cause vs. Heyman, and was fed to The Vampire.

CM Punk will finally debut next week? And Kurt Angle's suspension is up? RVD will be back the following week, as his suspension will be up around 8/4. Things are looking up.

[bigddan11]

Well, I can't say this week's show was that great. I thought Undertaker vs. Big Show last week was better than Kane vs. Big Show this week. I though tlast week's Mike Knox vs. Sandman was better than this week's. Vampire Fertig got a squash over Little Guido after he was beaten by the Basham's (Yes, the Basham's are playing Paul Heyman's 2 security guards now), but I was surprised how good Fertig looked considering he hasn't wrestled for awhile. It was a good show though, and I hope they continue trying to put some effort into it.

I'm hoping they are gearing ECW's Summerslam matches as follows ni the next few weeks:
Sabu Vs. Big Show (ECW Championship- this could be very realistic after last night)
RVD & Balls Mahoney vs. Kurt Angle & CM Punk (RVD should be back in a couple of weeks, and unless they want 4 ECW matches, then they'd have to do this one)
Test & Mike Knox vs. Tommy Dreamer & Sandman (this one is almost certain after last nights events)

[The Penguin]

The reason Shannon Moore isn't called the "The Prince of Punk" is because TNA trademarked the name during Moore's short stint with the company.I thought I had read that, I asked last week and no one answered me. I'm not real cool with the way TNA wants to trademark names created by the talent. Lo Ki changed his name because they wanted to own it and now Shannon can't use his cooler nickname for reason other than there being another "Punk" on the roster.

[SirLemming]

get the belt of the big show.
It won't be long, I'm sure. They never wanted it on him in the first place. You can thank RVD for that. Or the police, I'm not sure. Maybe they just misinterpreted him. Maybe they made him do the balance test but he couldn't hold his arms straight out in the air because he couldn't resist the urge to curl them up and say "R... V... D."


Easy. Because Vince doesn't want a unique wrestling product, he wants a third WWE brand show. And if Vince wants that, then Vince will get that.
Sadly, that's probably true.

[James Bester]

ECW main event for Tuesday in New York is....

Big Show vs. Batista for the ECW title

Straight from the front page of http://www.wrestlingobserver.com

There's also a rumor going around that Chris Benoit will be the one to answer Kurt Angle's challenge next week. There isn't really a definite source so I wouldn't count on it.

[VCXZX]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the crowd turns on both Show and Batista since they're not ECW alumni. But that didn't stop them from wildly cheering for Angle this past June.

I still think Benoit has a ways off till returning. And Smackdown desperately needs him more than ECW. And for that matter, Angle too.

[SirLemming]

They're nuts if they're going to try that crap in New York. Let's just get to Big Show vs. Sabu already. Even if it's a non-title match. Not even Raw & Smackdown have such prominent, consistent brand crossover. Even if ECW is just the third brand, it needs to be more isolated than this.

[Tapout]

They're nuts if they're going to try that crap in New York. Let's just get to Big Show vs. Sabu already. Even if it's a non-title match. Not even Raw & Smackdown have such prominent, consistent brand crossover. Even if ECW is just the third brand, it needs to be more isolated than this.

It wouldn't even be so bad if the ECW champion was an actual ECW wrestler. If Sabu had the belt, or even if RVD didn't have his problems, and went through a different Raw or Smackdown guy each week, it could actually make ECW look better. With the Big Show doing it, it looks like Vince & Co. don't have enough faith in the ECW guys to carry an F'n 1 hour show on their own.

[Jude Santos]

I don't understand. If ECW is "just another WWE brand" like you say, then what's the point of having it? What's the point of hiring all that mediocre/aging talent to get it off the ground? There were still some people that debated that the WWE product was watered down with the brand extension (such as the tag team division and the IC/US divisions). Wouldn't just adding a third brand augment this problem? I'm with SirLemming, I'd rather it go back to just two brands and have a stronger RAW and a stronger Smackdown. If its just another WWE brand, you could have just hired Paul Heyman back to work on the product and taken RAW or Smackdown in a new direction.

The point is to make money. Also, when I say WWE brand, I am simply refering to the fact that it's owned by Vince. I did not mean to imply that by saying "just another WWE brand" that I meant just an extension of RAW or SD, not at all.

Why shouldn't it be different? They have the opportunity to do something different and they're presenting it as something different. Thus I'm disappointed when it isn't all that different.

Don't get me wrong, I want ECW to be different and better (I agree with you actually,) but if I keep saying "it should be this, it should be that, this guy shouldnt be here or that" then it's just going to cloud my judgment into thinking every show is bad. The point I wanted to get across is to just enjoy the show for what it is and maybe y'all will like the show better just a little bit. I'm not saying just eat what they feed you either, just don't be too critical.


It wouldn't even be so bad if the ECW champion was an actual ECW wrestler. If Sabu had the belt, or even if RVD didn't have his problems, and went through a different Raw or Smackdown guy each week, it could actually make ECW look better. With the Big Show doing it, it looks like Vince & Co. don't have enough faith in the ECW guys to carry an F'n 1 hour show on their own.

I think the problem lies in the fact that theres only RVD and Sabu in the original ECW "extremists" that are actually worthy to hold the belt. If the roster was filled with guys in RVD/Sabu's status, then I can pretty much say the problem wouldn't be there.

[Wing Zero]

I wonder how ECW would be if RVD was still champ right now and who he'd be feuding with.