Toonami vs. Adult Swim

[Dark Spider]

Dark Spider Comment- Toonami vs. Adult Swim

When I first heard of the big new late Saturday night block, I was filled with joy because I had a new reason to stay up on Saturday nights. But then I heard it was gonna be on Adult Swim, and that made me think. I was still happy about the block, but I started to worry about Toonami.
Is it just me or does it seem like Williams Street is playing favorites now all of a sudden. At first when Adult Swim (AS) first appeared back in Early September, it seemed like AS and Toonami will go hand and hand down the long road of Television. But now it seems like AS is getting a better treatment all of a sudden. For instance wasn't Pilot Candidate and Gundam 0083 originally suppose to go to Toonami? Toonami really could use more new shows than what they are recieving now. Also, is it just me or is Toonami just kind of sitting there, not showing anything fresh and new (no new fanart, promos for other shows besides DBZ who doesn't need any new promos).
I'm not against AS or anything. In fact, it IS a good idea that they are recieving all of this new stuff, so they can promote the block some more. It is a delicate time for AS, who needs all the growing it can get. But I'm saying that Williams Street should also treat Toonami to the best of their abilities in the process. It's not an easy task, but in the long run Williams Street will benefit from this.

I would post some more, but I'm in school and am out of time. I'll post more later. Please reply and post your opinions.

[VinceA]

I agree with your assessment. AS needs to be nursed more closely now since it's a new brand name/block. Once we see the editing jobs done on 0083 & YYH we'll see if they're edited to Toonami standards or AS standards. Shorter series (isn't 0083 quite short - not sure but some of the other UC Gundams are in the <10 to <20 episode length class) are probably best suited for weekly showings anyway. Hopefully a block that will attract more 18-49's (the demographic reportedly with the most spare cash) will help all of CN (especially AS & Toonami).

[rmarti3926]

I hope the Outlaw Star gets the Adult Swim treatment.

I can't wait to see Gene pat Iris' butt on national TV! :p

[ohmrbill]

I've noticed the neglect Toonami's been getting, too. It's almost as though Williams Street were sacrificing Toonami to the great WB monster and its evil master, Kellner. Doesn't anyone else find it odd that Yu Yu Hakusho and Candidate for Goddess (two shows that are most definitely NOT intended for adults) make their premier on Adult Swim instead of Toonami?

[VinceA]

Candidate for Goddess is another one of those short (12 or 13 episodes) series that's probably best suited for weekly showing. I've also heard that YYH is a bit on the bloody side so maybe Funimation didn't want to hack it as much as DBZ so it's in an evening block

[Killtacular]

Yu-Yu was never headed towards Toonami.

FUNi pitched Blue Gender to Adult Swim, and WS rejected. They pitched Yu-Yu Hakusho to Adult Swim, and WS accepted.

Simple as that.


Toonami will be getting more shows appropriate for its age group. That's why DBZ isn't in Adult Swim, because it's clearly not adult. One could argue that Tenchi and Outlaw Star aren't adult either, but Tenchi has sexual content that would easily make it an R movie if released in theaters, and Outlaw Star has the kind of action sequences and languages usually seen in PG-13 movies.

Toonami will get more shows pertaining to pre-teen and teen age groups. WBA will probably provide a couple of shows themselves, and Mainframe's Transformers Armada is sure to head over to Toonami(considering the BKN lineup is kaput anyway).

[ohmrbill]

Tenchi would NEVER get an R-rating. All of Tenchi's "sexual content" is implied and there aren't any sex scenes. And don't say the nudity would give it an R-rating, because Comedy Central showed the nudity in Bob and Margaret completely uncensored. The most Tenchi would get is PG-13.

As for YYH, I was always under the impression that it was geared towards the same age group as DBZ (although, admittedly, I've never actually seen it). But if FUNi pitched it to Adult Swim instead of Toonami, then I guess that explains that.

[Sheamon]

What you neglect to mention is that Toonami is an already established name out there. Its been out for years. It gets spectacular ratings. They even rip it off on WB. Adult Swim on the other hand was/is an experimental block thats only been around 4-5 months. Honestly, what do you expect? They obviously need to give more attention to Adult Swim because it needs more attention. As they've proved to us, Toonami can be stuffed with 2 hours of DBZ and be left alone and still get good ratings(for now anyway). Thats not gonna happen with Adult Swim. Thats why you're seeing AS get more attention right now.

And I wouldn't be surprised to find that WS has a lot less power than you think they have. We all know they want Toonami to be its former 3 hour+rising sun glory with DBZ only on once a day. I think the higher ups above WS have a little more power regarding the Toonami block than you might perceive at this point in time.

[Jowy Blight]

As for YYH, I was always under the impression that it was geared towards the same age group as DBZ (although, admittedly, I've never actually seen it). But if FUNi pitched it to Adult Swim instead of Toonami, then I guess that explains that.

At first glance, it would kinda seem that way, but there is quite a bit a blood and talk on that show that would never let it go to Toonami. Well, at least this means it won't be edited that badly.

Plus, it kinda seems that two of the character's (Hiei and Kurama) are gay. It was never really said, but you can kind of see it. I think they're just good friends, but you never know. :yakko:

[Chibi Kageboshi]

Did YYH end already or is it still going on?

[kurai akuma]

While it doesn't thrill me that two shows that appeared to be Toonami bound (Pilot Candidate & Gundam 0083) are heading over to Adult Swim at least we'll finally get to see them & they'll probably be less edited. I don't know, maybe Toonami's a victim of it's own success. Since Toonami's already an established block Williams St. figures that Adult Swim needs more attention at the moment. And since the Toonami name is associated with a younger crowd now I guess something like YYH wouldn't cut the mustard on Toonami.

[Killtacular]

Okay, so I did exaggerate about Tenchi.

But regardless of what anime and cartoon fans say about a show's demographic, the higher-ups and soccer moms always have a different view about it. They(like some Sealab fans I've seen) associate violence, sexual connotations, and language with "adult", instead of judging the actual storyline.

And the content within Outlaw Star, no matter how much the story may be written towards young teenagers, will always make it look "adult". Do you think any of Arnold Schwartzenagger's movies are smart, sensible, or mature? They're all written towards kids under 11 that like big explosions and one-man armies saving the world. It's the violence itself that makes it "adult", or PG-13/R-rated.

I think that, alongside putting attention towards Adult Swim, Williams Street is just trying to please everybody. People want to see their shows respected, but they want it in Toonami, an afternoon block. Williams Street would love to, and could, do it if they wished, as basic cable does not have restrictions on content, but Cartoon Network simply won't let them do it.

Pilot Candidate is in there most likely because they needed a filler show, it was there, and because if it aired on Toonami, they would have to replace names like Zion and Goddesses, because the suits have some strange problem with religion.

And the Gundam series was meant for Adult Swim. Toonami really took the war out of the war when they editted it. I mean, why bother removing blood from a person dying? What exactly are they trying to hide? Why replace words like "womb" and "kill" and "die", when their counterparts mean the same thing? I think it was a smart choice to put it on the Swim.

This doesn't mean that all of the Gundams will be on Adult Swim. In fact, I half expect Williams Street to rerun Gundam Wing on Toonami at some point in the year, to keep the block from getting stale. And they haven't announced their 2002-2003 plans yet, so we'll just have to wait and find out what they acquired outside of this.

[JTurner954]

Hi, even though this is my 100th post I'm still new with what's what.

What is Williams Street?? I've seen it mentioned on many posts without an explanation.

Also, I'd just like to say: BRING BACK THE BIG O!!!

Thank you.

[Zenogias]

Williams Street are the people behind Toonami and AS.

[Jowy Blight]

Did YYH end already or is it still going on?

YYH ended at 112 episodes and 6 OAV's, a few years ago.

[Anyone00]

"That's why DBZ isn't in Adult Swim, because it's clearly not adult."

Neither is Pilot Candidate, even with and objectionable or religious content. It will come of to anybody as a show for an audience around and under 12-year olds. As you said: filler.

"Plus, it kinda seems that two of the character's (Hiei and Kurama) are gay."

Did you see the show yourself or did you just trust the impressions of some fan girls with overactive imaginations?
The show is suppose to have a large yaoi following.
*waits for Sina's reply*

"They(like some Sealab fans I've seen) associate violence, sexual connotations, and language with "adult""

Actually most soccer moms I know consider it to be a bunch of immature crap.


Toonami needs to the Sunrise's Brave Robot series (especially the last series King of Braves: GoaGaiGar) and maybe One Piece (although most of the characters seem of a kindly immoral bend, does the TV series include the habitual liar?) and the drinking to boot so it might not go over to well.

[Jowy Blight]

Did you see the show yourself or did you just trust the impressions of some fan girls with overactive imaginations?

If your talking to me, I have seen the show myself. It was NEVER said anywere that the two of them were gay, it did seem that way sometimes though.

[Anyone00]

Originally posted by Jowy Blight


If your talking to me, I have seen the show myself. It was NEVER said anywere that the two of them were gay, it did seem that way sometimes though.

I never said that you said.
But it seem you have watched quite afew episodes of the series, so that (and the rest of the shows fan following) will probably mean the show will be generally enjoyed :)

[Jowy Blight]

I never said that you said.

You quoted something out of my post, so I thought you were talking to me.


But it seem you have watched quite afew episodes of the series, so that (and the rest of the shows fan following) will probably mean the show will be generally enjoyed

If they dub it's correctly, then it should be a hit. From what I've seen of FUNI's website on this, it looks like they'll treat it right.

[JTurner954]

Since I am a Batman fan and they did show Big O, I will say I like Toonami more than Adult Swim.

[KingKoopa]

I think WS isn't calling this Toonami because if it was Toonami, then it would be associated with shows like DBZ, which is what caused the problems in the first place. They can't air these shows with less edits on Toonami, so they did the next best thing, they called it Adult Swim. Just mute your TV during commercial breaks and browse TDA or something, because the bumpers are the only difference, those and that AS shows the original intros.

On that note, any word on the Tenchi or Outlaw Star intros? Are they going to air without intros, with Toonami intros, or with the original ones? Know that ReBoot at 6 AM didn't show the intro for a good while, until the original intro eventually showed up, and that was just one of them. I'm more concerned about Tenchi, which has 3 different shows, with 3 different intros, will they only air one of them for all 3 or something?

Next, any chance that Mobile Suit Gundam will air on AS after 0083 has been overplayed? They can only show 0083 around 3-4 times before it gets old, and while that's still around a year, any word on it?

Also, what are the borders? 9-5? 10-5? 10-3? 11-3? 11-1?

[Killtacular]

11 - 2 am, although the only REAL content is between 11 - 12.

[Supernovametalstar]

Originally posted by Anyone00


Toonami needs to the Sunrise's Brave Robot series (especially the last series King of Braves: GoaGaiGar) and maybe One Piece (although most of the characters seem of a kindly immoral bend, does the TV series include the habitual liar?) and the drinking to boot so it might not go over to well.

I'd LOVE to see any of Sunrise's robot series, especially Brave Train Mightgain, GaoGaiGar, GEAR Senshi Dendoh, Jei Decker, and Exkaiser. I've only seen the opening sequences and some still shots, but I have a feeling I'd like the shows alot. Considering that a lot of Sunrise series end up on CN, especially with the popularity of Gundam, that those shows would be easy to acquire.

[William C. Maune]

[indent]Of all the week and a half's worth of news to miss I sure missed a big one! I'm finally caught up though so here goes...
[indent]First, I'd like to point out to all the doomsayers that thought the MNR was leaving due to now only being Wed. and Thurs. that the Thursday edition is returning with the absence of Adult Swim. It isn't going anywhere.
[indent]Second, the changes look mostly postive to me for now. Toonami isn't being cut in anyway and instead a HUGE chunk of action is being added to Cartoon Network. My VCR is going to be busy on Saturday nights. I'd have to agree with Vince on the block being a good place for shorter series. Also, considering the other shows on there I wouldn't be surprised to see Big O rotated in the mix (Besides the shortness, all the shows are edited by Williams St.). Hopefully at least pre- and maybe post-Adult Swim will be branded with Toonami goodness.
[indent]I would have to say original intros for Tenchi and Outlaw Star are a good bet considering the treatment of Cowboy Bebop. I can't wait to hear "I'm a Pioneer" on national television (I actually stealthly played it on one of the radio stations I worked for once, it was heard in a 75 mile radius of mid-Missouri!) Original openings for Tenchi would likely mean original closings also!
[indent]While this does mean shows originally intended for Toonami are heading to Adult Swim, Toonami did give us Zoids out of nowhere which was longer than both those series combined. Plus, nothing can really be said about favoritism by anyone until Toonami's new acquisitions are announced in the coming months.
[indent]Finally, speaking of favoritism, I would usually insert another rant about Williams St. bashing here, but I thought Sheamon said it extremely well:

"And I wouldn't be surprised to find that WS has a lot less power than you think they have. We all know they want Toonami to be its former 3 hour+rising sun glory with DBZ only on once a day. I think the higher ups above WS have a little more power regarding the Toonami block than you might perceive at this point in time."

[Wyloms]

I think Adult Swim is good but I like Toonami because they showed Gundam Wing alot and they showed it un cut on the midnight run a while back.

[Darashinai]

>>"Plus, it kinda seems that two of the character's (Hiei and Kurama) are gay."

Did you see the show yourself or did you just trust the impressions of some fan girls with overactive imaginations?
The show is suppose to have a large yaoi following.
*waits for Sina's reply*<<

Mmmmmmm..... yaoi........

There. :)


Well, i am in full support of both Adult Swim and Toonami. They, *especially* Toonami, have really tried to stretch the boundaries of what America calls cartoons - of what kids love. I understand the slight neglection of Toonami in favor of Adult Swim because AS does need to get off the ground, and so far, i'm not totally disillusioned and i would call myself something of a fan.

And i have to agree with Matt. "Adult" is kinda a wishy washy category. But then again, Toonami fans are a different sort of cartoon fan. We see blood gushing and say, "awww...this show is for babies!" :D

[batboy2001]

Dang, all the good stuff has already been said! Um, yeah, I like toonami! AS, is still kinda new, and I personaly don't think it's that great.

[William C. Maune]

[indent]I've had a chance to read Matt's letter now (adultswim.toonzone.net) and I would have to say the editing part does bother me. I can see how they don't want to spend money on editing, but there are fairly inexpensive ways they can still go about it. As Matt mentioned with the Outlaw Star DVD's, Tenchi could be handled about the same way as long as the digital swimsuits were kept. Other than the nudity there is nothing that would go beyond TV-14 (in Muyo at least, I don't know for sure about the others). Big O would be even easier. That could be run straight off the DVD's with likely no editing whatsoever.
[indent]I love the lineup and I think it has awesome potential, but I fear problems if it isn't handled properly. Unfortunately for Williams St., CN seems to have a now or never attitude towards the block, but hopefully they will give them some more money and/or time to set things up. Overall I am not too worried yet as there is still a month to go and Cartoon Network has a habit of changing its mind quite a bit.