The Transformers was just a toy commercial [Archive]

Wonderwall

07-16-2006, 10:15 PM

I think it was a mix of both. Compared to the DCAU, the Transformers is more of a commercial, but I place it on the level of Spider Man TAS when comparing to product placement. I see more toy placement on the new TMNT than what Ive seen on the Transformers( G1 and Beast Im talking about ). The thing that seperates the old show and BW from the imported crap they shill out now, is that the show had a heart, and did have a purpose. I mean from what I read kids looked up to Optimus Prime, so the creators seemed to try to make some of their characters more than just toy placement.

maczero

07-17-2006, 09:43 AM

I voted "sort of". I mean most 80's toons based on toys were meant to promote said toys. However, there were honest attempts to give the TF's personality. Also, some of the storylines didn't focus on action which doesn't make sense if they're supposed to be 30 minute toy commercials. "The Girl Who Loved Powerglide" comes to mind.

Undrave

07-17-2006, 12:39 PM

I voted for the fourth option.

G1 was really REALLY badly written.

Pc-Famicom64

07-17-2006, 03:54 PM

I have never watched it, yet if your a big fan of Bobobo (or some other anime by Toei), Watch it (it's done by Toei), yet one episode was done by Tokyo Movie Shinsha (for fans of Tiny Toons and/or Animaniacs/Pinky and The Brain) & a fue episodes were done by Akom.

Zack

07-17-2006, 03:58 PM

If your a big fan of Bobobo (or some other anime by Toei), Watch it (it's done by Toei), yet one episode was done by Tokyo Movie Shinsha (for fans of Tiny Toons and/or Animaniacs/Pinky and The Brain) & a fue episodes were done by Akom.
We all know that you're in love with TMS, Toei and all them Japanese cartoon studios, but is it necessary to mention them in every topic?

Pc-Famicom64

07-17-2006, 04:10 PM

We all know that you're in love with TMS, Toei and all them Japanese cartoon studios, but is it necessary to mention them in every topic?I'm not in love with them, animes are a big thing now & I'm just telling them about it so the DVD box sets made in the 70's 80's & 90's will sell more.

JesseCuster

07-17-2006, 04:24 PM

I kind of think that it is definitely a mix just because I saw a Transformers toy commericial before I ever saw the show. I think that it was a toy commericial that was fortunate to be well written and grew into something meaningful. Only G.I. Joe was able to ever accomplish such a feat, in my opinion.

Bubblegum Girl

07-17-2006, 07:42 PM

I think it's both. Cause most cartoons back in the 80s always had toys to go with them.(Like G.I.Joe, He-Man, Centurions, etc.)

The Weed Of Cri

07-17-2006, 07:48 PM

Transformers, G.I. Joe, He-Man, M.A.S.K., Jayce and the Wheeled Warriors, Smurfs, Strawberry Shortcake, Care Bears, Gummi Bears........

Let's face it, you couldn't get a cartoon series made in the '80's unless you had a toy deal in place and ready to distribute before the first episode aired. The merchandising aspect remain very heavy (Spongebob, anyone?), but not everyone is so blatant about it these days.

Pc-Famicom64

07-17-2006, 08:21 PM

The Mask.that was based on a movie, not a toy (Odd that thers 2 cartoons based on that same movie, one made in the 80's done by KK C&D Asia & one made in the 90's done by Pasi).

Alex Toon

07-17-2006, 08:25 PM

Transformers may have been a "toy commercial", but at least it had good dialogue. Some new toy ads like Yu-Gi-Oh seemingly throw their products in your face and emphasize that.

Anwar

07-17-2006, 08:47 PM

Are we discussing just the first series, or are we including Beast Wars and Beast Machines? Because those two series are (IMO) two of the best animated shows I've seen.

Zack

07-17-2006, 08:57 PM

I'm not in love with them, animes are a big thing now & I'm just telling them about it so the DVD box sets made in the 70's 80's & 90's will sell more.
What DVD box sets of what shows are you talking about? :confused:

Nin-Nin69

07-17-2006, 09:00 PM

I'm going with the 4th option.

Yet they still did a great job when putting emotion into Optimus, Iron Hide, Megatron, Starscream, and Soundwave. Otherwise the death of Optimus and Iron Hide would've never bothered me.

straw_hat

07-17-2006, 09:25 PM

Option two sounds like a good marketing scheme. The cartoon was made to help promote the toyline and entertain kids at the same time. If the show wasn't allowing the kids to connect with the characters then they'd become disinterested and go do something else like going outside and playing with a ball.

Gokou Ruri

07-17-2006, 10:44 PM

Chris Wood

07-17-2006, 11:08 PM

They were made solely to promote the toys, if that's what you mean. It's why they got "upgrades" in Beast Wars, and the whole minicon things in Armada.

Whether a show is made to sell toys or not has no barring on the quality. Beast Wars was awesome. However, denying an obvious fact that it was made to sell toys is just silly.

The point I would make is that there is a difference between a 30 minute Transformers episode and a 30 minute infomercial for diet pills or home gyms.

.Automatisch

07-17-2006, 11:18 PM

I said "sort of". It definitely has its moments where it totally feels like a commercial, and other times it feels like a legit cartoon. I think The Movie and thereafter is where it got a bit worse with being more about the toys.

Zorak Masaki

07-17-2006, 11:32 PM

Actually, the sunbow toons (gi joe, TF, Jem, visionairies) were pretty good with making their shows be a little more substantial. Sure, they were based on toy lines, but they gave the characters personalities and elaborate backstories, as well as entertaining (though not always well written) stories.

Pc-Famicom64

07-17-2006, 11:48 PM

What DVD box sets of what shows are you talking about? :confused:Duck Tales, Animaniacs, Pinky and The Brain & Chip n' Dale's Rescue Rangers, thats what I'm talking about.

Zack

07-18-2006, 12:52 AM

Duck Tales, Animaniacs, Pinky and The Brain & Chip n' Dale's Rescue Rangers, thats what I'm talking about.
Those shows' DVD sets won't sell good just because some episodes have animation done in Japan. Where'd you get that idea? And what was the purpose of bringing anime in the conversation?

Wolf Boy2

07-18-2006, 01:38 AM

mammy2shoesfan

07-18-2006, 06:58 AM

G-1 had good writing for a 1980s childrens show (it sure beat the heck out of Superfriends and Thundercats), but it was cursed with too many characters.

In the sense of having to animated EVERY single action figure, yes it was a toy comericial. But you also have to give them credit for going the extra mile and fleshing out the characters (even if their flesh was made of alloy).

I am a Beast Wars hardcore, and one of the things I loved most about Beast Wars was that they kept the characters to a minimum of about 12-16 at all times. Also, on Beast Wars, the dead stayed dead. The "upgrades", as someone called them, did serve a purpose for selling toys, but they were also fanservice. G-1 fans were dying to see more robotic characters replace the realistic animals.

So I liked G-1, and no, I don't think it was a straight up toy comericial. But it did have STRONG comercial overtones.

Transformers one of the best shows ever. (Thundercats was great also) I think it was a blessing that it had so many characters like Gi JOE. I think these cartoons now a days don't have enough characters thats one think I loved about G1 I wouldn't see the same 3 guys every ep. So what if its main goal was to sell toys they were great toys so great that then they came out again a few years ago I had to grab everyone one that came out. Even those commericals were even good back then made me just have to have TFs and so did the show. I would call that good business.

Undrave

07-18-2006, 10:42 AM

that was based on a movie, not a toy (Odd that thers 2 cartoons based on that same movie, one made in the 80's done by KK C&D Asia & one made in the 90's done by Pasi).

Huh... M.A.S.K. is the 80s one and has NOTHING to do with 'the Mask' movie. -- M.A.S.K. was about people riding transforming vehicles.

Transformers one of the best shows ever. (Thundercats was great also) I think it was a blessing that it had so many characters like Gi JOE. I think these cartoons now a days don't have enough characters thats one think I loved about G1 I wouldn't see the same 3 guys every ep. So what if its main goal was to sell toys they were great toys so great that then they came out again a few years ago I had to grab everyone one that came out. Even those commericals were even good back then made me just have to have TFs and so did the show. I would call that good business.

One of the best show ever? Hahaha... that's funny...

And those other characters would most of the time come out of nowhere, be nothing more than a voice with an accent or a quirk, and sometime just dissapear! I prefer characters that are developped than an army of 'quirky voices'.

And 80s toys? Not that great.

Lord Dalek

07-18-2006, 02:09 PM

If the show was designed to push a product (in this case action figures) then yeah it's a commercial. The fact that we got so many years of great entertainment out of it seems to be a bonus in it's favor.

The Weed Of Cri

07-18-2006, 02:46 PM

that was based on a movie, not a toy (Odd that thers 2 cartoons based on that same movie, one made in the 80's done by KK C&D Asia & one made in the 90's done by Pasi).

I wasn't referring to the cartoon based on the Jim Carrey movie (which was itself based on a comic book); I was referring to a show that involved heroes who wore odd mechanized masks and drove high-tech vehicles to fight crime. It contained a lot of the elements of both Transformers and G.I. Joe.

The point I would make is that there is a difference between a 30 minute Transformers episode and a 30 minute infomercial for diet pills or home gyms.

Not that much difference. Both are largely works of fiction

Pc-Famicom64

07-18-2006, 03:02 PM

Those shows' DVD sets won't sell good just because some episodes have animation done in Japan. Where'd you get that idea? And what was the purpose of bringing anime in the conversation?Yes it will, I know people who will do think like this, hears how.

Toei (Transformers, Jem & 1980's GI Joe): DB/DBZ/DBGT, Doremi, PPGZ & Bobobo.

Tokyo Movie Shinsha (Mighty Obots, Galaxy High & The Blinkins): Duck Tales, Little Nemo, Tiny Toon Adventures, Animaniacs/Pinky and The Brain, Lupin the III, Hamtaro & Sonic-X.

Anime is just a big thing now, by by the box sets telling people this was animation by Toei or some other anime studio, it will sell much better, I'm not the only one who thinks like that.

:anime:

Jave

07-18-2006, 03:37 PM

Yes it will, I know people who will do think like this, hears how.

Toei (Transformers, Jem & 1980's GI Joe): DB/DBZ/DBGT, Doremi, PPGZ & Bobobo.

Tokyo Movie Shinsha (Mighty Obots, Galaxy High & The Blinkins): Duck Tales, Little Nemo, Tiny Toon Adventures, Animaniacs/Pinky and The Brain, Lupin the III, Hamtaro & Sonic-X.

Anime is just a big thing now, by by the box sets telling people this was animation by Toei or some other anime studio, it will sell much better, I'm not the only one who thinks like that.

:anime:So what are you saying? That DVDs will sell better if they specify who did the animation in the covers? Do the target audience even CARE about that?

Answer: They DON'T.

Pc-Famicom64

07-18-2006, 04:19 PM

So what are you saying? That DVDs will sell better if they specify who did the animation in the covers? Do the target audience even CARE about that?

Answer: They DON'T.Look at the Simpsons, it was aimed at adults but kids watch it, thats what I'm trying to say, make the fan base bigger then what it is now.

veemonjosh

07-18-2006, 04:29 PM

I have never watched it, yet if your a big fan of Bobobo (or some other anime by Toei), Watch it (it's done by Toei)

I'm a big fan of Bo-bobo, yet I didn't (and still don't) like Transformers (aside from Beast Wars) ONE TINY BIT.

The point is, people like shows because of THE SHOW, not just the animation.

Pc-Famicom64

07-18-2006, 04:37 PM

I'm a big fan of Bo-bobo, yet I didn't (and still don't) like Transformers (aside from Beast Wars) ONE TINY BIT.what about GI Joe?, Toei also did that show as well, but dont watch Akom's episodes becuse from my readings that show was Akom at ther worst.

Zack

07-18-2006, 04:47 PM

what about GI Joe?, Toei also did that show as well, but dont watch Akom's episodes becuse from my readings that show was Akom at ther worst.

Would you watch a cartoon just because a certain episode is done by an animation company you admire so much? That is very weird.

You seem to think that a cartoon is better just because the Japanese had involvement in it or that a cartoon will be better if the Japanese have involvement in it. I don't see why anime has anything to do with "American cartoons that have animation done in Japan" unless you're saying that those shows are somewhat anime and "Anime = good".

straw_hat

07-18-2006, 04:55 PM

Would you watch a show just because a certain episode is done by an animation company you admire so much? That is very weird.

You seem to think that a show is better just because the Japanese had involvement in it or that a show will be better if the Japanese have involvement in it.
No I just think PC is a very confused person. I believe he's trying to make a terrible point that because anime has become popular that anime fans will get interested in old american cartoons just because Toei animated it thus increasing sales of the DVDs.

Pc-Famicom64

07-18-2006, 05:06 PM

No I just think PC is a very confused person. I believe he's trying to make a terrible point that because anime has become popular that anime fans will get interested in old american cartoons just because Toei animated it thus increasing sales of the DVDs.Thats what I'm trying to say, and why do you think it's a terrible pont?

Beat

07-18-2006, 05:08 PM

Yes, but that doesn't detract from what later writers did. Look at the UK comic "Time Wars" and tell me a heartless toy executive made it.

Pc-Famicom64

07-18-2006, 05:10 PM

Yes, but that doesn't detract from what later writers did. Look at the UK comic "Time Wars" and tell me heartless executives made it.Just be glade that people like John K. saved that.

Zack

07-18-2006, 05:13 PM

Thats what I'm trying to say, and why do you think it's a terrible pont?

Because no one who will buy a cartoon on DVD cares if the Japanese animated that certain show.

Do you think that's what makes a show good or successful?

Beat

07-18-2006, 05:14 PM

Just be glade that people like John K. saved that.

That was Simon Furman who wrote it for the UK comic. He also wrote arguably the best TF story ever- the US comic "On the Edge of Extinction".

Pc-Famicom64

07-18-2006, 05:23 PM

Because no one who will buy a cartoon on DVD cares if the Japanese animated that certain show.

Do you think that's what makes a show good or successful?Are you trying to say that the only types of people who care about who is doing the animation is John K. and some other people of Spumco?

DarthGonzo

07-18-2006, 05:55 PM

Are you trying to say that the only types of people who care about who is doing the animation is John K. and some other people of Spumco?
Where'd you get that idea from?

You know PC, there's more to these shows than just the studios who animate them. In all the time you've talked about studios like TMS/Tele-whatever and Toei I don't think I've seen you name one director, one storywriter, one voice actor, one layout artist, ect...

A bunch of talentless people could get together and create a steaming pile of garbage. They could send it to TMS and have them put all they're A-list animators in charge of it and it would still be a steaming pile of garbage.

The quality of the animation means nothing without good writers, storymen, layout artists and voice actors behind it. I could name a whole bunch of TMS animated Animaniacs episodes that were nowhere near the quality of certain Wang or Startoons shorts.

You have a very odd standard for judging cartoons. And as for the John K issue, I do see his point. If your a stickler for being involved with the animation process you lose all control once your product is shipped overseas. No overseas studio animating Ren and Stimpy ever, EVER came close to the quality of Bob Jacques over at Carbunkle Cartoons in the second season.

Hordesman

07-18-2006, 06:38 PM

What makes tv animation is its writing and layout because it simply doesn't have the resources for full, spectacular animation. The economics for tv animation never have been about lavish budgets. Gargoyles never came close to the visual production/quality control of Atlantis or Sinbad, but it was a stronger production as a whole. And all those years of outsourced animation have led to a rise in image quality. There's more studios competing, and rock-bottom prices have been mixed with the best-looking show for x-amount of money. Plus, US tv preproduction has become better prepared in making overseas packets. Visual diagrams are the standard, in order to avoid translation errors. Technology's another issue- between digital coloring and the ability to see test animation through ftp files and such. But ultimately, I think the real edge in a show goes to the skill of preproduction and voice acting.

And toy commercial labelling is pretty dodgy. He-Man came out of the Mattel boardroom whereas YGO started as a comic about (mostly import) gaming and hobbies. GI Joe was a toy first. Dunno about Transformers, but as much as I love giant robots they do tend to scream "TOY". Most people get shocked that one of Orson Welles' last roles was Unicron.

Undrave

07-18-2006, 08:01 PM

Transformers was originally a series of figures by Takara, and they were originally designed as piloted mechas, and not as sentient robots.

Chris Wood

07-18-2006, 08:05 PM

If the show was designed to push a product (in this case action figures) then yeah it's a commercial. .

That is the core of the question. We now it was intended to promote the toys, but was it actually designed to do so? Did advertising execs create a list of rules the writers and artists had to follow?

"Grimlock must have 2 minutes of closeups in this episode."

"Optimus Prime must delegate the most important tasks in each episode to the currently hottest selling character."

"Spike must always be portrayed as popular and cool because he has so many Transformer friends."

Etc.

mammy2shoesfan

07-18-2006, 08:34 PM

Huh... M.A.S.K. is the 80s one and has NOTHING to do with 'the Mask' movie. -- M.A.S.K. was about people riding transforming vehicles.

One of the best show ever? Hahaha... that's funny...

And those other characters would most of the time come out of nowhere, be nothing more than a voice with an accent or a quirk, and sometime just dissapear! I prefer characters that are developped than an army of 'quirky voices'.

And 80s toys? Not that great.

80 toys very great today's toys suck. Glad that I didn't grow up now. The show had a great mix of characters that were developed and characters that where blah. Keeps things fresh and fun to see new faces other than the same old samd old.

Pc-Famicom64

07-18-2006, 11:19 PM

Where'd you get that idea from?

You know PC, there's more to these shows than just the studios who animate them. In all the time you've talked about studios like TMS/Tele-whatever and Toei I don't think I've seen you name one director, one storywriter, one voice actor, one layout artist, ect...

A bunch of talentless people could get together and create a steaming pile of garbage. They could send it to TMS and have them put all they're A-list animators in charge of it and it would still be a steaming pile of garbage.

The quality of the animation means nothing without good writers, storymen, layout artists and voice actors behind it.

I could name a whole bunch of TMS animated Animaniacs episodes that were nowhere near the quality of certain Wang or Startoons shorts.

You have a very odd standard for judging cartoons. And as for the John K issue, I do see his point. If your a stickler for being involved with the animation process you lose all control once your product is shipped overseas. No overseas studio animating Ren and Stimpy ever, EVER came close to the quality of Bob Jacques over at Carbunkle Cartoons in the second season.1) I can do so (Well almost).

Chuck Jones.
Mel Blanc.
John K. (I think he did lay out for Ren & Stimpy).

2) TMS will say no to it and pick up better staff (like Tom Ruegger & Shigeru Miyamoto).

3) True.

4) You can do that with a number of episodes Hamtaro (But TMS only did that just to tick off the executives), but not Animaniacs (Unless I'm not remebering right about Animaniacs).

5) True, unless you go to the over seas studio & know Japanese, Korein, Ect., but it's easyer (and less money then TMS) to do it in the US/Canada (but for Quebec, witch you will have to know french).

DarthGonzo

07-19-2006, 12:17 AM

Chuck Jones.
Mel Blank.
John K.

Wow. One insanely well known Looney Tunes director, the greatest voice-over artist in history (it's spelled Blanc, btw) and one pretentious blowhard who only wishes he still made good cartoons. Try a little harder.

2) TMS will say no to it and pick up better staff (like Tom Ruegger & Shigeru Miyamoto).

I think I speak for us all when I say...huh?

You can do that with a number of episodes Hamtaro (But TMS only did that just to tick off the executives), but not Animaniacs (Unless I'm not remebering right about Animaniacs).

WHY are you comparing a show that was entirely made in Japan with Animaniacs? And what sort of proof do you have about that comment about TMS trying to "tick off executives"? I HIGHLY doubt that. You obviously have little idea of how the animation industry works, both here and in Japan.

True, unless you go to the over seas studio & know Japanese, Korein, Ect., but it's easyer (and less money then TMS) to do it in the US/Canada (but for Quebec, witch you will have to know french).

Do you honestly think TMs is the be-all, end-all in television animation? I really couldnt care less about anything they've done in the past decade or so.

I thought this one track mind TMS worship was going to end. Apparently that was too much to hope for. I wouldnt even mind it if you could back up your opinions with arguments that meant something. When you compare Hamtaro to Animaniacs you pretty much lose your credibility.

Pc-Famicom64

07-19-2006, 12:38 AM

Wow. One insanely well known Looney Tunes director, the greatest voice-over artist in history (it's spelled Blanc, btw) and one pretentious blowhard who only wishes he still made good cartoons. Try a little harder.

I think I speak for us all when I say...huh?

WHY are you comparing a show that was entirely made in Japan with Animaniacs? And what sort of proof do you have about that comment about TMS trying to "tick off executives"? I HIGHLY doubt that. You obviously have little idea of how the animation industry works, both here and in Japan.

Do you honestly think TMS is the be-all, end-all in television animation? I really couldnt care less about anything they've done in the past decade or so.

I thought this one track mind TMS worship was going to end. Apparently that was too much to hope for. I wouldnt even mind it if you could back up your opinions with arguments that meant something. When you compare Hamtaro to Animaniacs you pretty much lose your credibility.1) Charles Martinet, he's a voice actor.

2) TMS has done some bad shows now and then (like Mushi King), but ther not going that low.

3) If you what to know why TMS messed up the looks, that is the reason why.

4) No, but one of the best studios in Asia yes.

5) If Anime was not as big as it is now, ther will be much less talk about it.

Jave

07-19-2006, 01:31 AM

5) If Anime was not as big as it is now, ther will be much less talk about it.Ummm... what?

Again I ask. Do you seriously think kids CARE of who's doing the animation? Sure, kids may be able to tell different design styles, but I doubt they'll be commenting stuff like "I thought Akom did a great job in this one" once the episode is over.

Zorak Masaki

07-19-2006, 01:31 AM

Speaking of Transformers, it was the first cartoon (at least that i know of) that featured a type of primitive internet (the episode "roll for it" has a scientist sending a file to chip chase via computer, perhaps an early form of e-mail?)

Wolf Boy2

07-19-2006, 01:39 AM

I really only know the DC and Marvel Comics shows, but from those I have noticed that TMS does really good explosions and effects, but Dong Yang did better faces. Some DC episodes overlayed TMS explosions into Dong Yang episodes, and it was beautiful.

TMS did Spider-Man, which featured wonderfull fight and effect animation, but really rubbery faces.

Canadians seem to do better animating faces in the western style (with more jaw movement).

TMS also does a lot of unmistakable "anime body poses" that look odd on western characters.

Of all the DC cartoons, Dong Yang/Koko was my favorite studio (Spectrum was great, but they only did like 5 Batmans before they went out of bussiness).

EDIT: Death and eternal damnation to Akom.

DarthGonzo

07-19-2006, 08:18 AM

TMS also does a lot of unmistakable "anime body poses" that look odd on western characters.

Like the "tokyo feet" on the Tiny Toons and the Animaniacs characters every time they'd run. I used to cringe at how out of place that would look on an american series.

Like I've said before, the studio animating a show means very, very little if the people working on every other aspect of it are turning out weak product. The best TMS animated episodes of A! also have amazing work in all other aspects of production. But the later TMS stuff (like "Cutie and the Beast" and "Wakko's Wish") are nothing but talking heads and bland layouts and posing. The guys at studios like TMS are just there to take what they are given, animate it and give it back. Fammy, you seem to think they have a lot more imput in the production of these shows than they actually do.

Anyway...back to Transformers...

Pc-Famicom64

07-19-2006, 03:08 PM

Like the "tokyo feet" on the Tiny Toons and the Animaniacs characters every time they'd run. I used to cringe at how out of place that would look on an american series.

Like I've said before, the studio animating a show means very, very little if the people working on every other aspect of it are turning out weak product. The best TMS animated episodes of A! also have amazing work in all other aspects of production. But the later TMS stuff (like "Cutie and the Beast" and "Wakko's Wish") are nothing but talking heads and bland layouts and posing.

Anyway...back to Transformers...1) Animes do that alot evein before Tiny Toons.

2) The reason why Cutie and the Beast dose not as good as most of TMS's episodes is becuse it was being made for 2 years & most of it was done by Akom (TMS only did the animation in a fue bits), as for Wakko's Wish, I have not saw that in some time & Fox Kids Spiderman was real done in Korea (TMS only did story bords, and Telecom did the animatic, and inbetweens are done in Korea).

And 3) Yea, lets get back on topic.

veemonjosh

07-19-2006, 04:28 PM

what about GI Joe?, Toei also did that show as well, but dont watch Akom's episodes becuse from my readings that show was Akom at ther worst.

From what I remember of GI Joe, I didn't like it eather.

Pc-Famicom64

07-19-2006, 04:34 PM

From what I remember of GI Joe, I didn't like it eather.Are you trying to say that all Toei is good for is Anime?

Conekiller

07-19-2006, 04:44 PM

Like the "tokyo feet" on the Tiny Toons and the Animaniacs characters every time they'd run. I used to cringe at how out of place that would look on an american series.

Tokyo feet?

Is that when they had that funky animation where the characters were all smushed, would talk out of the sides of their mouths and their legs would undulate in and out for no real reason while they were standing and talking? (I beleive the TinyToons ep that spoofed Peter and the Wolf was animated in the way I'm referring to)

Obi

07-19-2006, 04:44 PM

Pc-Famicom64

07-19-2006, 05:26 PM

Tokyo feet?

Is that when they had that funky animation where the characters were all smushed, would talk out of the sides of their mouths and their legs would undulate in and out for no real reason while they were standing and talking? (I beleive the TinyToons ep that spoofed Peter and the Wolf was animated in the way I'm referring to)No, thats Kennedy, TMS is alot much better then that.

DarthGonzo

07-19-2006, 05:51 PM

What I meant by "tokyo feet" is when the TMS animated characters run really fast they kind of create a spinning windmill of tear-drop shapes. It's really hard to explain.

The reason why Cutie and the Beast dose not as good as most of TMS's episodes is becuse it was being made for 2 years & most of it was done by Akom (TMS only did the animation in a fue bits)
What are you talking about? None of this is true.

Pc-Famicom64

07-19-2006, 07:23 PM

What I meant by "tokyo feet" is when the TMS animated characters run really fast they kind of create a spinning windmill of tear-drop shapes. It's really hard to explain.

What are you talking about? None of this is true.I can't remeber the show right, the only ones I can remeber right are the episodes I saw on Nick, Wakko's Wish (but not 100% ther), some CN airings & AOL's in2tv (one I 1st saw on CN and a fue others on Nick).

DarthGonzo

07-19-2006, 07:49 PM

I can't remeber the show right, the only ones I can remeber right are the episodes I saw on Nick, Wakko's Wish (but not 100% ther), some CN airings & AOL's in2tv (one I 1st saw on CN and a fue others on Nick).

Well then, if you dont know then why do you state these things as if they're fact?

Pc-Famicom64

07-19-2006, 07:50 PM

Well then, if you dont know then why do you state these things as if they're fact?Saying from other sites (Plus TZ).

Wolf Boy2

09-27-2006, 02:12 PM

G1 is a hilariously awful, hilariously blatant toy commercial. So is the movie. In fact, every Transformers show ever made amount to nothing more than giant toy commercials, even if the writers had fun with it and the product turned out entertaining.
Really, I find this offensive.

What TV show isn't created to make money? No childrens TV show (outside PBS) would ever get on the air WITHOUT a major toy franchise backing it. End of story.

Batman: The Animated Series was created soley as a marketing tie-in to Batman Returns. Without toys, there would've been no B:TAS. But the writers made it into something awesome. Same with Transformers.

Transformers: The Movie was an awesome picture. Beast Wars was one of the best sci-fi plots ever concieved. PERIOD. With humans instead of robots, Beast Wars could've been a prime time drama.

There were some comercial elements behind the conception of Transformers, but the final product was...

**cue cliche**

... More than Meets the Eye.

Pc-Famicom64

09-27-2006, 05:43 PM

Anarky

09-27-2006, 07:28 PM

Best Toy Commercial Ever!

aalong64

09-27-2006, 09:18 PM

Even in the 80's, there were lots of childrens' cartoons not based on a toy line-- A good example is the Raccoons. It was hardly merchandised, even at the height of its success. Pretty much the only merchandise was a colouring book, a set of markers, and a couple of plush toys, all released a few years after it started.

It was also not animated overseas.

Wolf Boy2

09-28-2006, 12:07 PM

You forgot most Creater Driven Cartoons, ther made becuse the creater whats them to be made, not for money.
Which get canceled after, like, what... a season?

(If they last that long)

And then the next question is, so what if TFs are a comercial? Does a toy line really make the story and themes sub-par?

xcinderellax

09-28-2006, 12:12 PM

No, it was well written sci-fi that happened to feature toy characters

i rember the transformer toys

Hanshotfirst113

09-28-2006, 12:17 PM

Really, I find this offensive.

What TV show isn't created to make money? No childrens TV show (outside PBS) would ever get on the air WITHOUT a major toy franchise backing it. End of story.

Batman: The Animated Series was created soley as a marketing tie-in to Batman Returns. Without toys, there would've been no B:TAS. But the writers made it into something awesome. Same with Transformers.

Transformers: The Movie was an awesome picture. Beast Wars was one of the best sci-fi plots ever concieved. PERIOD. With humans instead of robots, Beast Wars could've been a prime time drama.

There were some comercial elements behind the conception of Transformers, but the final product was...

**cue cliche**

... More than Meets the Eye.

OUTSTANDING post. I think that that is true of anything. I mean, what was the idea behind Alan Moore's Watchmen? To sell comic books. Seven Samurai is a commerical action film, not an art picture. Its no more an art film that Bad Boys II. It has more artistic merit, and it is a work of art, however. The same can be said of anysuch thing in entertainment. Science "fiction" is often anything but. Look at Star Trek. Star Trek was concieved so that there would be something to watch on Friday night. No one expected the insighful allegorical social commentary, rich characters, and 40+ year long franchise with millions of loyal fans like Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings. Excellent thoughts

Iron Man Stewie

09-28-2006, 12:40 PM

Which get canceled after, like, what... a season?

(If they last that long)

And then the next question is, so what if TFs are a comercial? Does a toy line really make the story and themes sub-par?
Excellent point, it's just the consumer resenting they have been "duped" into watching a commercial that triggers this hatred, trees cannot be seen from forests when the mentality of marketing ploy victim" comes gradually to their senses

Having the show plug toys and giving you a provactive storyline does'nt take one away from the other, you like a character, you can buy it, and you get an episode like "The God Gambit" or "Starscream's Brigade"

A lot of cartoons now are toy commercials, (The Batman) and nobody cares because there too busy praising "The Clayface of Tragedy" and "Strange Minds" despite the crappy poser anime animation, there's a lot of Pot/Kettle/Black baggage with pissing on TF just for being a commercial

mammy2shoesfan

09-28-2006, 02:54 PM

If Transformers was just a 30 minute commercial it was a great commercial. I enjoy even watching the old commercials on some websites. I think the story was simple but great. I could sit down and watch the DVDs all day sometimes. Commercial or not it Transformers did what it set out to do sell toys and provide entertainment.

Beat

09-28-2006, 03:39 PM

It was also not animated overseas.
If the 80's hadn't had companies so willing to have Japanese companies animate we'd still be in the dark ages of repeated running stills on top of a scrolling background. Simply put, you got more bang for your buck by having Toei animate instead of having Hanna Barbera do it.

Compare Gobots to a Machine Robo show from Japan. Same character designs, but Gobots looked horrible in comparison to Machine Robo.

Captialism is a necessary evil, and just about anything worth something artistically was, at one point, made for profit. It's just the way stuff works.

Wolf Boy2

09-28-2006, 04:47 PM

Having the show plug toys and giving you a provactive storyline does'nt take one away from the other, you like a character, you can buy it, and you get an episode like "The God Gambit" or "Starscream's Brigade"

A lot of cartoons now are toy commercials, (The Batman) and nobody cares because there too busy praising "The Clayface of Tragedy" and "Strange Minds" despite the crappy poser anime animation, there's a lot of Pot/Kettle/Black baggage with pissing on TF just for being a commercial
Word. And that Guadacanal scene in "Starscream's Brigade" was very revolutionary for its time.

I'm actually glad you reminded me of that episode, because it is a good example of the conflict between toy and TV producers. The episode had been originally planned for WWII style vehicles, but Hasbro decided to make modern vehicles instead. So we ended up with Starscream rebuilding a 1943 airplane into a 1986 space shuttle. Uh, okay....

In this case, the toy tie-in actually HURT what the TV writers wanted to acomplish. If they were just making a comercial, they would never have attempted a WWII tie-in or any kind of adult-theme continuity references, they just would've had some random Decepticons appear.

Another example is Optimus Prime's death. He could've just dissapeared after the Ultra Magnus toy was created (which was an update of Prime's mold). Or even worse, they could've done a Power Rangers-esque "hero gets new powers" story. But the writers respected the character, and gave him a heroic, honorable and emotionally wrenching death.

People b*tched about Rodimus Prime being "emo", but in all seriousness, how would you feel if you're mistake caused your hero to die --- then had to fill HIS shoes? The character arc of Hot Rod/Rodimus Prime was an ambitious effort, albiet poorly-recieved.

If this is a comercial.... I want to see more of this type comercial.

aalong64

09-28-2006, 06:32 PM

If the 80's hadn't had companies so willing to have Japanese companies animate we'd still be in the dark ages of repeated running stills on top of a scrolling background. Simply put, you got more bang for your buck by having Toei animate instead of having Hanna Barbera do it.

Compare Gobots to a Machine Robo show from Japan. Same character designs, but Gobots looked horrible in comparison to Machine Robo.

Captialism is a necessary evil, and just about anything worth something artistically was, at one point, made for profit. It's just the way stuff works.
I wasn't trying to imply that being animated overseas is a bad thing, but rather I was just pointing out that the Raccoons was unusual for the time because a) it wasn't based on a toy line and b) it was all done in-house, all the while managing to be popular, successful and long-running. They did do some reused animation at times though, but not nearly enough to complain about.

Shawn Hopkins

09-28-2006, 06:54 PM

It's not a toy commercial. Calling it that underestimates the corporate behemoths behind it. Transformers and G.I. Joe were blatantly "synergistic" marketing concepts, where the commercials, show and Marvel comic sold the toys, the toys drove interest in the show and the popularity of all of it sold the underoos, shampoo, stickers and whatever else they could slap the logo and character likensesses on.

The fact that it was an entertaining show and a pretty good comic doesn't change the intentions of its creators or their execution of such.