Could Noir Superman Work In Animation?

[Stu]

Hey,

Given the look of Superman Returns and how well it's previously worked in the Flechier cartoons and even Batman: The Animated Series, do you think a new Superman cartoon could work in a noir like setting, or is a modern feel like Superman: The Animated Series the way to go?

What kind of tone would you like to see in the next Superman cartoon?


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[Aldrius]

I liked the retro feel that S:TAS had. It'd be hard to see it any other way.

[Wonderwall]

I dont think anyone but the Fleisher bros could make Supes work as good in noir as they did. Modern with elements of noir are good but Superman TAS really did have a good thing there with the psdeo future past as DAn Riba put it.

[adoptedBatpuppy]

Perhaps, but then half of the members on these boards will hate it, just like with The Batman. :sad:

[Wolf Boy2]

I am a huge fan of film noir. I have almost a hundred DVDs of film noir movies. Therefore, I think I am qualified to say that Superman is NOT a noir character. Batman fits right in. But Superman...? Heck no.

Superman is a sci-fi character. You cannot escape that fact. He does not fin into noir stories anymore than Sam Spade would fit into Star Wars.

Also, Lois is neither a blushing victim nor femme fatale (the archetypical noir women) so she wouldn't fit into that inviroment either. She is too bold, firey, independant and progressive to fit the noir mold. As wonderfull as that 40s design looks (I must confess I am obsessed with the 40s), it is not Lois.

Lois looks perfect on S:TAS, as a very modern and well groomed bussinesswoman, who is obviously sexy, confident and comfortable in her body, but is not a slut either. Some recent comics have gotten too modern and shown Lois in midriff-bearing tops and ... it's not her. It's hot, but it's not her. S:TAS was (IMO) the perfect Lois - a balance of classic femininity and modern hawtness. AND SHE DID NOT SMOKE.

And for the record, being made or set in the 1940s does not make a movie film noir. Film noir (meaning "dark film) is a very speciffic kind of film, with plots revolving around murder, corruption, failed love and a crusty detective.

Metropolis looks best when done in a bright retro 40s style. Art deco, as it's called (what they used in S:TAS). Those wonderfull curves on the signs and buildings. Wow. It's a style I associate with classic Hollywood, or old radio theatres.

I think S:TAS nailed forever what Metropolis should be, and I hope future films and cartoons emulate that style.

[Silly McGooses]

I think S:TAS nailed forever what Metropolis should be, and I hope future films and cartoons emulate that style.
I agree abiut the city, but I would've liked to see more classic clothes and personalities.

[Wolf Boy2]

I agree abiut the city, but I would've liked to see more classic clothes and personalities.
Provided they maintained the bright, optimistic side of the classic. Whenever you deal with retro style in an action show, there is a temptation to throw in Bogart-type dark elements, that just don't work in Metropolis.

This is Superman, not Sin City.

[Silly McGooses]

Provided they maintained the bright, optimistic side of the classic. Whenever you deal with retro style in an action show, there is a temptation to throw in Bogart-type dark elements, that just don't work in Metropolis.

This is Superman, not Sin City.
I mean, completely keeping it totally World's Fair-ish. The brightest that era had to offer is exactly what Superman should be, IMO.

[Aldrius]

Well, they did sorta keep it that way. The colours are more modern, and the faces and such are stylized. But the clothing is very 40's. Clark's blue suit needs a hat, but it's still very Retro. Lois' skirt and blouse fit that era, Perry's outfit... Jimmy's probably the most modernized character...

[Dusty]

I liked the retro feel that S:TAS had. It'd be hard to see it any other way. You thought STAS had a retro feel to it? thought it was the total opposite, if they were to make a new Superman series, i would want it to take place in the same time as the Justice Guild on JL did, i'll post pics on how i would like it to look like later,


D.

[Wolf Boy2]

I mean, completely keeping it totally World's Fair-ish. The brightest that era had to offer is exactly what Superman should be, IMO.
YES! YES! World's Fair! That is EXACTLY what I was thinking!!!

BTW, anything more retro than what they had would be too much like a copy or continuation of Fliescher. B.t. expressely stated that he wanted to establish S:TAS as being seperate from all other versions.

Dan Riba nailed it: a pseudo future-past.

[Jor-El]

Anyone who has seen the Fleischer cartoons (my general impression is that not many here have) knows that Superman could easily fit into a darker, noir series. I'd like to see him get back to his "champion of the oppressed" roots like the first year or two of the character. Hell, even give him the black-S shield from the Fleischer cartoons.

[Darknight66]

As with most people I agree that Superman works better in the "Future Past", although his Film Noir adventures such as the Fleischer cartoons or even The Late Mr Kent were very good also

[Stu]

Anyone who has seen the Fleischer cartoons (my general impression is that not many here have) knows that Superman could easily fit into a darker, noir series. I'd like to see him get back to his "champion of the oppressed" roots like the first year or two of the character. Hell, even give him the black-S shield from the Fleischer cartoons.
That's what came to mind when I thought of the thread. I remember being fascinated when them as a child, simply because it looked so good (I was raised on 67 Spider-Man, which will never, ever win any awards for the quality of it's animation).

I can't wait to get the Fleischer toons on DVD in the Superman Anthology set - I've been holding off the cheap, bargain bin sets in hopes of getting digitally tranferred special editions. Seeing the few clips on some of the recent Superman DVDs has got me excited for thier release.

Whether or not people are aware than the Fleischer toons were the inspiration for Batman: The Animated Series and finally helped give the studios/networks the message that not all cartoons had to be silly, juvenile and squeaky clean shows, but could be dramatic, entertaining and action orientated shows.

I think a noir Superman show could work perfectly. It's highly unlikely given the current state of animation, but I'm sure people were saying that in 1992 before Batman began airing.

[Silly McGooses]

I can't wait to get the Fleischer toons on DVD in the Superman Anthology set - I've been holding off the cheap, bargain bin sets in hopes of getting digitally tranferred special editions. Seeing the few clips on some of the recent Superman DVDs has got me excited for thier release.

Me too, the clips look great. It's almost unreal! I'm so used to my VHS copies that look like they're out of some 2,000-year-old well.

You thought STAS had a retro feel to it? thought it was the total opposite, if they were to make a new Superman series, i would want it to take place in the same time as the Justice Guild on JL did, i'll post pics on how i would like it to look like later,


D.
I think S:TAS had a VERY retro feel to it in that it was very close to the idea of the future that people once had.

[Azrael24]

I am a huge fan of film noir. I have almost a hundred DVDs of film noir movies. Therefore, I think I am qualified to say that Superman is NOT a noir character. Batman fits right in. But Superman...? Heck no.

Superman is a sci-fi character. You cannot escape that fact. He does not fin into noir stories anymore than Sam Spade would fit into Star Wars.

Also, Lois is neither a blushing victim nor femme fatale (the archetypical noir women) so she wouldn't fit into that inviroment either. She is too bold, firey, independant and progressive to fit the noir mold. As wonderfull as that 40s design looks (I must confess I am obsessed with the 40s), it is not Lois.

Lois looks perfect on S:TAS, as a very modern and well groomed bussinesswoman, who is obviously sexy, confident and comfortable in her body, but is not a slut either. Some recent comics have gotten too modern and shown Lois in midriff-bearing tops and ... it's not her. It's hot, but it's not her. S:TAS was (IMO) the perfect Lois - a balance of classic femininity and modern hawtness. AND SHE DID NOT SMOKE.

And for the record, being made or set in the 1940s does not make a movie film noir. Film noir (meaning "dark film) is a very speciffic kind of film, with plots revolving around murder, corruption, failed love and a crusty detective.

Metropolis looks best when done in a bright retro 40s style. Art deco, as it's called (what they used in S:TAS). Those wonderfull curves on the signs and buildings. Wow. It's a style I associate with classic Hollywood, or old radio theatres.

I think S:TAS nailed forever what Metropolis should be, and I hope future films and cartoons emulate that style.
wow, that was beautiful, snif, snif (and i completely agree)

[Atomic_Duck]

I'm confused. When you say noir, do you mean really dark crime stories, or do you mean stuff like Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow? I think Superman would fit better in the latter.

[Joker1238]

SkyCaptain was almost like seeing a old Fleischer Superman cartoon. The robot part relly brings back memorys lol. Ok I not that old. But I grow up with the Fleischer Superman cartoons. While STAS was good, and in some ways his battle with Darksied are darking than any of the Fleischer cartoons, as Max show in the 40's, it could work. I dont relly see why people are having a debate over this as its been proveing that it work. I guess you guys relly dont think much of the Fleischer cartoons. People may say that BTAS brought the no silly stuff to Comic Cartoons, but relly all BTAS did was repeat what the old Superman cartoon did.

[Anthonynotes]

SkyCaptain was almost like seeing a old Fleischer Superman cartoon. The robot part relly brings back memorys lol. Ok I not that old. But I grow up with the Fleischer Superman cartoons. While STAS was good, and in some ways his battle with Darksied are darking than any of the Fleischer cartoons, as Max show in the 40's, it could work. I dont relly see why people are having a debate over this as its been proveing that it work. I guess you guys relly dont think much of the Fleischer cartoons. People may say that BTAS brought the no silly stuff to Comic Cartoons, but relly all BTAS did was repeat what the old Superman cartoon did.

I've seen the Fleischer cartoons as well, and enjoyed them a lot...