Detective Comics #821 - 826 "Detective" Talkback (Spoilers)

[Spider-Man]

Gotham's wealthiest citizens find themselves victimized by the mysterious new villain Facade as a story arc by new DETECTIVE COMICS creative team of writer Paul Dini (Batman: The Animated Series, BATMAN: WAR ON CRIME), artist J.H. Williams III (PROMETHEA, SEVEN SOLDIERS) begins!

DETECTIVE COMICS #821

http://dccomics.com/media/covers/5519_180x270.jpg (http://dccomics.com/media/covers/5519_400x600.jpg)

Written by: Paul Dini
Art by: J.H. Williams III

Operating with a gang trained to pass as members of the cities' elite, the masked mastermind's crimes baffle the police and leave members of Gotham society fearing for their lives. It's up to Batman to use a "facade" of his own, that of socialite Bruce Wayne, in order to bait the villain's underlings and discover the true identity of their elusive leader.

Comments? What are your thoughts?

[Agent S7]

:sigh:. I've been waiting for this issue for months and I can't get it yet. Curse DC and their slow subscription deliveriiiiiieeeeessss!! :mad: :zim:

~s7

[Spider-Man]

I think Paul Dini did a pretty excellent job with this first issue. I really like the idea that for the most part Dini's entire run is going to be made up of mostly one issue stories. I really like that idea. I like that Dini used his first issue to get a nice look at the Bruce Wayne persona and have Batman use that as his means for investigations.

The new villain is by the book and in this story Dini makes sure to even emphasize that this is just another gimmick villain setting out to get even by using some costumed theatrics. It's not an original idea but I like how we see Batman's approach to all of this. There's some witty stuff in here and just a well done story all together. It's pretty solid and it's nice to see that DC is really starting to produce some great Batman comics again. It was a smart choice getting Dini on one of the Batman books. This is a great re-introduction into the Batman titles.

[screw on head]

I totally agree with you, Spider-Man!

I was really thrilled with this issue all around. Dini is as good writing this as J. H. Williams III is drawing it. I'm not familiar with Williams at all, but man does he do a stellar job here. I really like the way the issue alternates between solid colors and rendered images, and even when they mix. I thought things got a bit too artsy by the end storytelling wise, but other than that this was great. Very much looking forward to the next issue!

[Stu]

I thoroughly enjoyed this. I've been wanting to see Dini on Batman for a while now, and he doesn't dissapoint. It's nice to see a full story told in a single issue that actually has great pacing, rather than the usual rushed ending. The characterisation was great, the pace was good, the dialogue witty and the story intriguing. Dini doesn't dissapoint.

The artwork was a little too artsy, as screw on head mentions, and his Bruce Wayne model doesn't really look like any Bruce Wayne I've ever seen before, but I've seen a lot worse, so I can't complain too much.

A great issue. How long are this team on the book for?

[wonderfly]

Paul Dini, writer of many of the best episodes of "Batman: The Animated Series", (and the creator of Harley Quinn, one of the most popular new Batman villians in the last 15 years), FINALLY comes on board as writer for an ongoing Batman title. The results are spectacular.

Apparently every issue of Dini's run is going to be a single issue tale, a fabulous change of pace from the multi-issue story arcs which have become the trend in recent years. This issue introduces us to new villian Facade, a costume crime lord that fits in perfectly among Batman's Rogues Gallery. According to the solicitations, the next issue is a Riddler tale, and the next a Poison Ivy story. The comparison between these issues and the single episodes of B:TAS is easily seen: I actually found myself hearing the old Batman theme music while reading the issue.

Though Dini's story is exciting, it may not be the most original. Facade is clearly a standard "gimmick villian", (Batman notes as much himself), and next issue starts the old trend of "clever twists on classic villians", (with an apparently reformed Riddler), but that's not the attraction: Dini's strength is in writing a classic version of Batman, not in breaking new ground in the Batman Mythology. It's "old school" storytelling, but it's "old school done right".

Artwork wise, the cover by that Simon Bianchi fellow is stylish and beautiful, yet a bit too...gothic, for my taste. Upcoming covers to the book show the same cover artist for each issue, and maybe his work will grow on me, (I enjoyed his artwork on last years "Shining Knight" miniseries, but that was a work of Sword and Sorcery Fantasy...Batman's world is one filled with dark, decaying city streets, and that's the sense that should be conveyed on the covers). And as for the interior artwork, J.H. Williams does a great job on his stylish renditions of Batman and Facade, (wonderful action scenes!) but his depiction of Bruce Wayne looks strangely off, to me.

I have to be honest, I was all set to avoid most mainstream DC superhero titles after the universe spanning "Infinite Crisis" miniseries wrapped up, (it seemed like the perfect ending point to stop reading DC titles), but my curiousity was peaked when I heard Dini was coming to the Bat-corner of the universe, so I decided to pick it up on a whim. DC is really putting out some powerhouse creative teams right now, and Dini on Detective Comics is a perfect choice. Looks like I'm on board for another great run of stories. And now I'm in the mood to go and watch my B:TAS DVD...

Grade: A+

[Silly McGooses]

Paul Dini's run isn't just 3 issues is it? As this thread's title suggests? He said on his livejournal he was turning in the script for...827, I believe.

[Clayface]

Paul Dini's run isn't just 3 issues is it? As this thread's title suggests? He said on his livejournal he was turning in the script for...827, I believe.

:confused:
833-821 = 12 issues.

[Anthonynotes]

I enjoyed reading this issue, artwork looking a bit *too* dark/muddled in a few spots aside (and, yes, more use of stupid-looking first-person-narrative-to-nobody captions ;-) ). Liked the villain-comparison analysis bits. Didn't know Dini's run is going to be all single-issue-stories, though...

[Spider-Man]

Detective Comics #822

http://dccomics.com/media/covers/5701_180x270.jpg (http://dccomics.com/media/covers/5701_400x600.jpg)

Written by: Paul Dini
Art by: J.H. Williams III

When a young socialite is murdered, her grief-stricken uncle turns to the newly reformed Riddler to find her killer. No longer the villain of old, the Riddler has turned his brilliant brain to crime-solving, and to the surprise of both the police and Batman, he's actually good at it. Has Gotham's most pernicious puzzler turned over a new leaf, or is it all a cover for a darker scheme?

Prepare for twists, turns and betrayals every step of the way as Batman and the Riddler forge an uneasy alliance to track down the mysterious murderer!

Comments? What are your thoughts?

[Chi]

I am thoroughly enjoying the Dini story arc. I like how he is writing Batman. Batman has a more edgy sense about him. He knows he has to deal with the Riddler, but he so doesn’t want to. My two favorite lines of Batman’s are: “Get off my car.” and “Don’t touch anything.” All said in that Batman monotone that is really saying, “I’m going to bust your head if you screw up.”

In regards to the Riddler, I was a little out of joint with his “memory lost.” I don’t know how extensive it was, but he remember that Query and Echo used to work at Pandora’s box—it lead me to think that maybe the Riddler isn’t as cured as people think he is—minus the fact that Bishop paid a boatload of money to get him out. Eh—just a thought!

[Sr.Infierno]

(and, yes, more use of stupid-looking first-person-narrative-to-nobody captions ;-))

I always loved those, they really enhance the film noir mood of Batman.

At least Dini doesn't overuse them like Frank Miller does in his Batman stories.

[wonderfly]

Detective Comics #823

http://www.dccomics.com/media/covers/5905_180x270.jpg

Written by Paul Dini
Art by Joe Benitez and Victor Llama
Cover by Simone Bianchi

Once she was the mistress of all growing things. Now the plant kingdom has rebelled and unleashed its deadly fury on Poison Ivy!

While struggling to protect his enemy, Batman is drawn deeper into a forest of intrigue where he uncovers a horrifying secret from Ivy's past. Don't miss this thrilling tale of one of Batman's deadliest femmes fatale by writer Paul Dini and artists Joe Benitez (WRAITHBORN) and Victor Llama!

Comments? What are your thoughts?

[Cortez2301]

I am thoroughly enjoying the Dini story arc. I like how he is writing Batman. Batman has a more edgy sense about him. He knows he has to deal with the Riddler, but he so doesn’t want to. My two favorite lines of Batman’s are: “Get off my car.” and “Don’t touch anything.” All said in that Batman monotone that is really saying, “I’m going to bust your head if you screw up.”

In regards to the Riddler, I was a little out of joint with his “memory lost.” I don’t know how extensive it was, but he remember that Query and Echo used to work at Pandora’s box—it lead me to think that maybe the Riddler isn’t as cured as people think he is—minus the fact that Bishop paid a boatload of money to get him out. Eh—just a thought!That story was good but didn't you find the place sick?I mean it was all sex stuff and disgusting stuff like that.I mean the story was clever but the scenes were weird.

[Robin2099]

I'm really liking Dini's run right now, mostly because he actually is making Batman into more of a detective then other writers have presented him in the past. This issue however started out really good, and then crashed in burned when Poison Ivys' experiment was revealed. I agree with what IGN said when is seemed like a rejected Spawn villian. Still it was better then when the Nightwing team turned Jason Todd into an octopus.

[spidl]

The artwork did not seem to fit the overall tone of the last couple of issues. The villian of this book did not hit the mark especially when you compare it to the last to issues. I think this is the first issue I think a second issue would have helped the story. I love what he is doing with The Riddler.

[jv2k]

I didn't mind the artwork in the past few issues but the newest one(the ivy one) just wasn't working for me. The only one who looked good was Ivy and even then some her poses just weren't that good(they looked, odd). For one Robin looks way too young this issue, I mean he looks as young as the DCAU Tim Drake. I mean how old is Tim Drake now anyway? Hasn't he already hit his late teens? However, the worst part, aside from mydislike of the way the characters look has to be the frame where batman screems at robin to get away from Ivy.

As for the story itself I didn't like it. The story was just not interesting, while the last issue gave us an interesting Riddler tale, this months story seemed dull. It starts out with some promise, I liked the idea of what seemed to be Ivy's own plant powers turned against her, and some of the art of her durring it made her seem so sad, so pathetic, and after her last appearance with Batman defeating her through simple words, I expected this version of the character to be a bit lighter. Instead all of this is cast aside as we realize that she had done some insane serial killer(and I mean Jeffery Dahmer, or Hanible sick) acts towards men she'd picked up. Apparently gaining some sexual pleasure out of killing men through feeding them to plants, having their bodies slowly digested from the feet up.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not squeemish in any way, and I probably wouldn't have had any issues if it hadn't been poison Ivy who did it. I mean I know her to be a ruthless serial killer, but not the type who'd kill in that sick way.


Even if it had been another villain the story still wasn't all that great. After all, by the end of the book it turns out that the people she killed had fused with a killer plant and are now after revenge. Personally I found this revelation somewhat lame, I mean its just corney in a way.

About the only thing I liked about this story was the misdirection. The begining truely makes Ivy look so pathetic, weak and confused. Suddenly she's the victim, and the art for her was so spot on. I actually sympathised with her, even for all her crimes and in the end, she was still the villain. In that sense I suppose that the story wasn't bad persay just not great or up to Dini's standard.

[wonderfly]

I finally got around to reading this issue, so it's time for me to comment...

Basically, I didn't enjoy this issue nearly as much as I had enjoyed the last two. They really need to get a steady artist on this title, I can't stand the changes in artwork with each issue. Robin looked like he had been de-aged, and other character's faces were a bit off...

I know that Dini is setting out to create new villians with this run, (which is admireable) but this new creature..."Harvest"...I dunno, it reminded me too much of Clayface, in that we have one villian creating another villian, (if we're going by the animated series, that is).

The last page of the story was classic Dini: The story ends with a shot of our villian, scared of things she used to take for granted, (the plants all around her). I have to admit, I thought it was a nice ending...but yeah, the story overall doesn't hold up to the last couple of issues.

I also don't know if I like how sick and twisted Dini made Poison Ivy. I mean, that's just...wrong. Of course, I was disturbed when I saw the episode of the animated series where Poison Ivy was growing babies inside of plants, (which was also written by Dini, I believe)...apparently Dini really believes Poison Ivy to be a demonic monster, but I don't know if that's the most appropriate way to portray her, (she can be a sympathetic character, at times)...


That story was good but didn't you find the place sick?I mean it was all sex stuff and disgusting stuff like that.I mean the story was clever but the scenes were weird.

I wouldn't say I was offended by that scene, as I know there are such places out there in real life. The Poison Ivy stuff in this issue was more disturbing to me. It would appear that Paul Dini is using this run to include every twisted idea he ever had for Batman which he couldn't get away with putting in the cartoon.

[wonderfly]

The latest chapter in Paul Dini's run!

Detective Comics #824

http://www.dccomics.com/media/covers/6085_180x270.jpg

Written by Paul Dini
Art by Don Kramer and Wayne Faucher
Cover by Simone Bianchi

One of the Dark Knight's most ruthless foes returns to Gotham City ready to resume business and settle old scores in "Night of the Penguin," written by Paul Dini with art by Don Kramer (JSA) and Wayne Faucher (IMPULSE)! Both Batman and Bruce Wayne find themselves at odds with the dirty bird as Penguin feathers a new nest with lies, deceit and murder.

Comments? What are your thoughts?

[jv2k]

This last issue was great, definatly better than last months. It actually felt like a Batman:TAS episode, and thats a good thing.

Well first things first I kind of liked how there was no real arch villain to battle in this issue and that batman was suspicious about a legitimate businessman penguin. Its kind of funny to see another villain decide it's more profitable to work within the law as apose to outside of it. In the end this was basically just a fun issue which is good because while I dislike a campy batman, he shouldn't have to be border line antihero.

[hobbyfan]

I just bought Detective yesterday. I am absolutely loving this. First two pages were a homage to the 60's, with Batman trussed up and at the mercy of Penguin. Cobblepot has been reimagined in recent years as Gotham's answer to Lex Luthor (villain putting up a front as a legit businessman), and Dini has added an extra layer to this beautifully. Nice move coming up with a Paris Hilton parody as Bruce's hired date.

I'm liking Riddler as a neophyte detective. Dini had me wishing Ivy had really reformed (and there's still hope for that), but the running theme so far has been to give the veteran rogues a more human "face", if you will. After so many years of wantonly tossing just about every Bat-foe into Arkham, though not all of them belong there (i.e. Penguin) to start with, now they're being treated with respect.

Once again, Zatanna has knee boots w/her fishnet stockings. That just doesn't look right, but it seems Kramer had too much fun drawing her, as it does look like Zee's flirting with the reader. Now, who here thinks it'd be great to have Zatanna and Bruce as a couple?:D

[RAINMAN]

After the mind whipe,bats will never trust her again. Besides bats have too many lost loves. Let someone else banged Zatanna.

[spidl]

This issue was like watching the old BTAS series without the character restrictions. The art work seemed to fit the style of the story more than last issue. I always thought Penguin worked better as a quasi-legitmate business as opposed to a super-villian.

[Ed Liu]

Paul Dini just held a press conference to talk about his run on 'Tec. Newsarama has the write-up (http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Detective/presscon/dini_didio.html) (and I have the summary for Toon Zone News (http://news.toonzone.net/article.php?ID=12971) :)).

-- Ed

[adoptedBatpuppy]

I wonder when does All Star Batman coming out?
As far as I know Superman is already out. :shrug:

[Stu]

All Star Batman was released before All Star Superman, both are currently on going, although either rarely ship on time.

I assure you, you aren't missing out on anything with Batman. The fact no one seems to know if Millar is taking the piss out of the current state of comics or if his writing really has become that bad is a worrying thought.

I wish Dini would've wrote All Star Batman. That would've been spectacular! Not to diss his great run on Detective though, it's been fantastic so far!

[jv2k]

It's such a shame that Dini didn't do all star batman, I mean the book would have been so much better if Millar wasn't given it.

[wonderfly]

FINALLY got around to reading this latest issue. Kind of a let down: Mr. Zzz is a neat character, but c'mon, he's a generic thug. Would've perhaps been more interesting for me if Penguin really did have a new scheme up his sleeves, (and perhaps he does-that conversation with the Riddler seemed to be hinting at something)...maybe Paul Dini is saving the "scheme" for a future issue...

Quick question: Does Lois know that Bruce is Batman? That's what I got out of this issue, (and I didn't know that was the case) but it was strange...she basically was asking if Bruce planned on investigating the Penguin, yet she never once mentioned his alter ego by name. Maybe she was being smart, in that somebody might overhear her say, "So when are you going to change into your costume, Batman?" but she was being overly vague...

[spidl]

Quick question: Does Lois know that Bruce is Batman? That's what I got out of this issue, (and I didn't know that was the case) but it was strange...she basically was asking if Bruce planned on investigating the Penguin, yet she never once mentioned his alter ego by name. Maybe she was being smart, in that somebody might overhear her say, "So when are you going to change into your costume, Batman?" but she was being overly vague...

I was thinking that since she is married to Superman she knows who Bruce is. I have not read Identity Crisis so I am not sure if it was revealed to her then.

[Antiyonder]

I saw the cover for #825 and didn't see Dini on it, is he still doing the run on Detective Comics?

[spidl]

I saw the cover for #825 and didn't see Dini on it, is he still doing the run on Detective Comics?

Yes, he is scheduled to have a fill in writer on a couple of issues.

[James Harvey]

There will be a few fill-in issues, but Paul Dini plans to write at least twelve issues of Detective Comics. It was recently revealed, through the DC Comics trade paperback program, that the name for his run is simply "Detective."

[wonderfly]

It was recently revealed, through the DC Comics trade paperback program, that the name for his run is simply "Detective."

Sold! I'll change the name of this thread now that we an official name for Dini's story arc. What issues will the trade paperback include? Just the Dini issues, or the fill in's as well? Speaking of which, was this month's issue the ONLY fill in, or has it been confirmed that there will be other fill ins?!?

[Ed Liu]

Sold! I'll change the name of this thread now that we an official name for Dini's story arc. What issues will the trade paperback include? Just the Dini issues, or the fill in's as well?

It looks like DC is going to split up Dini's 12-issue run into 2 TPBs (http://news.toonzone.net/article.php?ID=13199) of 6 issues each -- the first one is due in April and includes issues #821-826.

-- Ed

[wonderfly]

Paul Dini's back, after a one issue hiatus!

Detective Comics #826

http://www.dccomics.com/media/covers/6405_180x270.jpg

Written by Paul Dini
Art by Don Kramer and Wayne Faucher
Cover by Simone Bianchi

The Story:
Series writer Paul Dini returns as an unexpected twist of fate places Robin directly in the clutches of Batman's archenemy, the Joker! Alone and incapacitated, Robin must summon every bit of his courage and ingenuity to free himself before the madman ends the Boy Wonder's life!

Comments? What are your thoughts?!?

[Somejerk]

A GREAT Robin Issue

I mean we all love Tim, but this was just kick ass

IN YOUR FACE JASON TODD!!!

[screw on head]

This latest issue was very solid but it's nothing I can rave about. It's always a treat to read Dini-written Joker dialogue, and this time is no exception, even if Dini uses some old Joker quips here and there. I could definately hear Hamill's voice throughout though. The story was fun, and really allowed for Joker to shine, didn't really care much for Robin though. Looking forward to the next issue!

[Anthonynotes]

I've bought/read the recent Joker story as well, but didn't enjoy it---was hoping with Dini writing, it'd be a Joker similar to his Animated Series incarnation, instead of getting the same old "homicidal" Joker I figured the comics would've toned back on/ditched with their scaling back on Batman's jerkiness. Guess I liked it better when the Joker had, well, an actual *plan* to *do stuff*, instead of merely killing people and not doing much else. Not sure why this is supposed to be entertaining or "scary"---seems more boring, overdone and annoying to me.

At least the Ventriloquist shows up next issue...

[jv2k]

TAS also had a "homicidal" Joker though. He tried to set off tons of bombs, squirt his acid flower, use gas constantly, stalked a man, stalked a kid, beat his girlfriend, and then there was also what he did to Tim.

The only reason we don't see Joker as a killer was because the censors wouldn't allow it but in the Mask of the phantasm, Return of the joker and JL he was shown to kill.

[Anthonynotes]

TAS also had a "homicidal" Joker though. He tried to set off tons of bombs, squirt his acid flower, use gas constantly, stalked a man, stalked a kid, beat his girlfriend, and then there was also what he did to Tim.

The only reason we don't see Joker as a killer was because the censors wouldn't allow it but in the Mask of the phantasm, Return of the joker and JL he was shown to kill.

It's not the Joker killing I dislike---it's that in the recent comics, that's his *only* motivation, vs. killing as part of some plan (a la the Animated series) for revenge/getting at Batman/some other self-serving means. As seen in this comic, I find it vapid, boring and annoying, rather than "scary"/"realistic"/whatever (and no, "because he's crazy/insane/kewl" isn't good enough of a reason for me---so are, arguably, some of Batman's other foes... and also considering I'm being asked to fork over $3 for a 22-page pamphlet...).

[jadrax]

At least the Ventriloquist shows up next issue...


I would say "but hes dead isn't he?" but this is comic books.

[Invidente 7]

I would say "but hes dead isn't he?" but this is comic books.
I think it's a new ventriloquist.......otherwise DC has some explaining to do :eek:

[wonderfly]

It's not the Joker killing I dislike---it's that in the recent comics, that's his *only* motivation, vs. killing as part of some plan (a la the Animated series) for revenge/getting at Batman/some other self-serving means. As seen in this comic, I find it vapid, boring and annoying, rather than "scary"/"realistic"/whatever (and no, "because he's crazy/insane/kewl" isn't good enough of a reason for me---so are, arguably, some of Batman's other foes... and also considering I'm being asked to fork over $3 for a 22-page pamphlet...).

I just read the last issue. I can see what you're saying Brainatra, but I think this issue was an excellent illustration of what makes the Joker so menacing: even when he DOESN'T have a plan, he can be dangerous.

And killing isn't Joker's motivation: striking terror into Gotham, (and specifically into Batman and Robin) is his motivation. On such short notice, running over pedestrians seemed perhaps the best way to go about this.

How Robin defeated the Joker was classic Dini writing: turning the Joker's knowledge against him by getting the Joker wrapped up in a Marx brothers debate. And I did feel a moment of tension when the Joker was racing towards Santa and those kids-yes, it's the old cliche' of "placing children in danger" but it worked for me. I guess I'm just saying that I think Dini was spot on in his characterization here.

On the other hand, I too would like to see a return to the Joker actually having a scheme, (every single time I've read him lately, he's always reacting to a situation he's been placed in...here, it's reacting to stumbling across Robin..). It'd be nice if he had another scheme along the lines of "The Laughing Fish" or one of the other classic Joker stories...