Who or what is Superman?

[Spider-Man]

I read this great little article over at EW.com about Superman and thought it would make a great conversation topic here:


Superman is a) gay, b) Jesus, or c) Nietzschean hero?

If Superman had an office, he'd be sitting in it right now, superfingers massaging his supertemples, staring at a phone that won't stop ringing. "Man, oh man," he'd sigh, "everybody wants a piece of Superman. Can't a guy just Return already?"

Everyone does want a piece of Supes, of course. Because Superman belongs to everyone. For weeks, the Superman-is-gay debate (http://www.advocate.com/exclusive_detail.asp?id=31748%20%3Cbr%20/%3E) has raged, focusing on the duality of Supes' personality, his hidden identity, his suppressed fabulousness. (No, no, no! (http://www.news24.com/News24/Backpage/HotGossip/0,,2-1343-1344_1949046,00.html%20%3Cbr%20/%3E) say the filmmakers, with utter predictability.)

There's the Superman-is-Jesus (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2006/06/13/entertainment/e131158D39.DTL%20%3Cbr%20/%3E) thesis, centering on his function as a "savior" and the fact that he's a man, yet not a man. There's also the reading of Superman-as-immigrant, or, more specifically, as the quintessential American Jew (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/superman.html): Cast out of his birthplace, his power waxes as he assimilates. And, theologically speaking, that's not incompatible with the idea of a Messiah. (Supes was created (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Siegel) by two Jews, after all.)

And then there's the idea that Superman is, well, a superman, in the Nietzschean sense, an idea best advanced by David Carradine's Kill Bill Vol. 2 speech (http://youtube.com/watch?v=PdWF7kd1tNo&search=kill%20bill%20superman), which notes that Clark Kent is Superman's chosen disguise, his imitation of the typical human: weak, cowardly, "a critique of the whole human race." On a possibly related note, Frank Miller (http://comics.ign.com/articles/598/598451p1.html) (and others before him) saw Superman as an embodiment of the American superpower: proud, mighty, and blinkered. (He set him in opposition to Batman, the American id.)

So who/what is Superman? It seems pretty certain that Superman, like every icon, is all of the above, and more. The test of a good icon is its ability to absorb a multitude of interpretations. Like mine, for example: Superman, clearly, is a vertically challenged entertainment writer from North Carolina. What's the Kryptonite in this metaphor? Oh, like I'm telling you.
So, who or what is Superman?

[Eddie G.]

Superman as Jesus has a lot of weight to it. His story is structured liked this:

Escape from Krypton (Birth)->Discovery of powers (Youth)->Becomes Superman (twenties/thirties)

It's a very similar arc to the arc to that of Jesus Christ in the bible. You could also say that Lex v. Superman can represent Old Testament idealogy v. New Testament idealogy. Lex is a brillant man who basically builds Metropolis and does good for the world, but for this he seeks fame and money. More than that, he will hurt people who cross him and strike down those who challenge him. He's a lot like the Old Testament God who was a jerk. Then you have Superman come on the scene who has equal power to Lex but uses it for good. Not only for good, but for now reward or praise. He does what he does out of morality and love for mankind.

[Damien]

Superman as the ultimate immigrant/Jew and the Moses parallels are most likely not an accident, as his creators were Jewish.
Since then, yes, it's evident that the character has evolved into a Christ-like figure. "For this reason above all, I have sent them you, my only son." The idea that his father sent him here to save us? It doesn't get much more blatant. He's obviously gone from Moses to Jesus, Hercules to Zeus.
As far as him being gay? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

[Daredevil_2003]

As far as him being gay? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.Yah. That's pretty ridiculous. The Messiah angle is blatant, you'd have to be dense not to see it, but where does the gay accusation that I've never heard up until that article come in? Makes no sense...

[IDistractedYou]

As a gay man myself I've never seen Superman as a gay metaphor. I can concede the whole having to hide his identity thing, but then again one could say the same thing about almost every other superhero under the (yellow) sun. I think part of the reason the Supes as metaphor for homosexuality is being played because director Bryan Singer is openly gay.

[Mynd Hed]

Yah. That's pretty ridiculous. The Messiah angle is blatant, you'd have to be dense not to see it, but where does the gay accusation that I've never heard up until that article come in? Makes no sense...

I don't know if "accusation" is the right word, as I see the connection being made more often by gay people who see it as a positive than by homophobic straight people trying to "accuse" Superman of anything.

...That said, I still think it's a stretch at best.

[Nin-Nin69]

Stop it. Everyone should just stop calling Superman gay. Here let me fill in why people are saying this.

The director of this movie is known to be gay, but that has never stopped creativity in film. He made 2 kick ass X-Men movies before switching to DC. Yet in between the time that Superman Returns was in prodution, the director was going to be interviewed in a gay magazine. So the people from that magazine just happen to put Superman on the cover since he was doing the movie. So that's where this whole thing started because people are just bashing the director.

[Agent S7]

Stop it. Everyone should just stop calling Superman gay. Here let me fill in why people are saying this.

The director of this movie is known to be gay, but that has never stopped creativity in film. He made 2 kick ass X-Men movies before switching to DC. Yet in between the time that Superman Returns was in prodution, the director was going to be interviewed in a gay magazine. So the people from that magazine just happen to put Superman on the cover since he was doing the movie. So that's where this whole thing started because people are just bashing the director.

:sigh: Sadly so true. I happened to see that magazine in my local library ("Advocate", I believe?) and it also had X3 on the cover (which makes more sense, considering the X-Men represent and are pretty much advocating minority rights). I mean...WTF? I'm glad that some homosexuals take pride in the idea of Supes being gay, but look at him. Fabulousness. Isn't that a stereotype? Dual identity. I don't want to get in to the number of heroes, non-super included, that have that. I guess that makes Spider-Man gay, huh? Hidden Identity. Seriously. This is getting...stupid.

Conclusion: This Entertainment Weekly article is just an attention-craving reporter. Look at where he talks about the filmmakers denying Superman's gayness. If that's not bias, I don't know what is.

On other subjects, however, the article is very well-written. One of my friends spotted the Jesus thing herself and pointed it out. I thought it out and was pretty much shocked at how much it made sense. Is it possible that the messiah could be an alien? All the heroes treat him like one, he fights evil, he's ultra powerful. That theory makes a lot of sense.

Hm. This debate should be interesting.

~s7

[Ed Liu]

Howdy,

Before everybody gets all caught up in the whole "Superman == Jesus" thing, just remember that "Superman == Moses" is an equally apt comparison.

And regardless of the reasons, the "Superman is gay" thing is kind of daft if you ask me. Considering that the romantic triangle between Clark, Lois, and Superman was built-in to the concept from early on, I'm finding it a bit hard to swallow any deep dark consipracy theories about Superman being a closeted gay man. In addition, Bryan Singer's denied it publicly. Of course, both of those facts can be easily twisted as more evidence of the conspiracy and how deep it really goes :rolleyes:.

-- Ed

[Eddie G.]

And regardless of the reasons, the "Superman is gay" thing is kind of daft if you ask me. Considering that the romantic triangle between Clark, Lois, and Superman was built-in to the concept from early on, I'm finding it a bit hard to swallow any deep dark consipracy theories about Superman being a closeted gay man. In addition, Bryan Singer's denied it publicly. Of course, both of those facts can be easily twisted as more evidence of the conspiracy and how deep it really goes :rolleyes:.No, you're missing the point. It's not that Superman is homosexual, it's that he has two identities, one that alienates him from the rest of the world. When people say he's Mosses or Jesus they're not being literal, they're just saying aspects of Superman reflect aspects of these characters. I have a bunch of gay friends who've told me that they relate to Superman and Spiderman for these very reasons. It's far from daft.

[Daredevil_2003]

Actually, the line quote in the first post of this thread says "...Superman is gay...". And that's apparently what many are saying, opposed to talking about how it might represent gays in some type of non-literal sense.

That's not a metaphor, that's stating "fact". An incorrect one, at that.


Well...maybe not if Judd Winick starts writing Superman. :p

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

[Eddie G.]

Actually, the line quote in the first post of this thread says "...Superman is gay...". And that's apparently what many are saying, opposed to talking about how it might represent gays in some type of non-literal sense.That's bull. It also says Superman is Jesus which is also not true.


Everyone does want a piece of Supes, of course. Because Superman belongs to everyone. For weeks, the Superman-is-gay debate has raged, focusing on the duality of Supes' personality, his hidden identity, his suppressed fabulousness. (No, no, no! say the filmmakers, with utter predictability.)This is what the article is saying about Supes being gay. It isn't saying that Superman and Jimmy are fooling around in the coat closet, it's saying that Superman and the homosexual community have something in common with each other just like he has something in common with Jesus.

[Ed Liu]

Howdy,


No, you're missing the point. It's not that Superman is homosexual, it's that he has two identities, one that alienates him from the rest of the world.

I should probably clarify. I know that you can draw a valid analogy between Superman and Jesus/Moses or being homosexual, just as you can draw a valid analogy between Superman and American expressions of power. I think one of the reasons why Superman has managed to endure for as many years as he has is that he is rather malleable, and can express a lot of things that people want/need him to at any given moment.

What I'm calling "daft" are the folks who don't seem to be making an analogy for the gay thing. The ones who use the occasional odd line between Superman and Jimmy Olsen or with Superman's repeated spurning of Lois Lane as evidence that he's really gay, either for humorous or sociological purposes. It's generally the same exasperation I have with "Batman and Robin are gay" jokes. All the other metaphors are obviously metaphors (with the possible exception of "Superman is the quintessential Jewish immigrant," except everybody knows Superman is ethnically Kryptonian, not Jewish). I think the EW article can be read both ways for "Superman is gay" -- perhaps a deliberate ambiguity that starts layering on more meaning to the metaphor. Or maybe just sloppy writing. I haven't quite decided yet :p.

The other thing that distinguishes the "gay" analogy and the others is that it's fairly obvious that "Superman == Jesus" works on a metaphorical level and not an actual one. No church is going to rush out and replace their crosses with Superman shields and start saying Mass in Kryptonian. "Superman == American power" is one that you can't even really quantify in a physical sense. Nobody will take those analogies literally. This is not true about "Superman is gay," which can work as a metaphor or as a literal statement.

One other stray thought, not really related to the above. What purpose would it serve for a writer to keep a "Superman : Jesus" analogy in the back of his or her head? Parallels like that will only grow beyond an intellectual exercise only if it can be applied into an actual story. For instance, if we take the "Superman == American power" analogy, that can get expression in a story where Superman acts unilaterally and gets criticized as a result, or where he feels he has so much power at his fingertips but can't use it effectively without endangering others or because he is restrained by something else, or where he approaches a situation with hubris and gets his nose badly bloodied as a result. That analogy can lead to plot development and, hopefully, a good story that's about more than a guy in a cape punching someone through a wall.

How do you USE "Superman:Jesus"? I'm pretty sure that wasn't what they had in mind when they did the whole "Death and Resurrection of Superman" thing.

-- Ed

[Anthonynotes]

I have the "Advocate" magazine that has the Superman article; IIRC, think most of their comments of Superman's situation being similar to gays were either in analogy (as noted above) or in a jestful manner...

[Daredevil_2003]

That's bull. It also says Superman is Jesus which is also not true.Of course Superman isn't Jesus. But, unlike the gay connotation, the Jesus metaphor has a lot more weight to it and actually makes sense beyond a vague connection. In fact, in many cases it's blatant.

[Frank Castle]

I believe Superman is an honorable being that stands for every good and fights everything evil. I also believe that everyone likes Superman and wants to find something to relate with him that they believe in (Jesus and Moses) or as someone that they relate to personally such as being an immigrant or just being different from everyone else. Overall, Superman has all the qualities of a hero for everyone. Also on a personal note, I love the theory of Superman being compared to Jesus because since I'm a Christian, it gives me more of a reason to respect Superman.:)

[Mynd Hed]

One other stray thought, not really related to the above. What purpose would it serve for a writer to keep a "Superman : Jesus" analogy in the back of his or her head? Parallels like that will only grow beyond an intellectual exercise only if it can be applied into an actual story. For instance, if we take the "Superman == American power" analogy, that can get expression in a story where Superman acts unilaterally and gets criticized as a result, or where he feels he has so much power at his fingertips but can't use it effectively without endangering others or because he is restrained by something else, or where he approaches a situation with hubris and gets his nose badly bloodied as a result. That analogy can lead to plot development and, hopefully, a good story that's about more than a guy in a cape punching someone through a wall.

How do you USE "Superman:Jesus"? I'm pretty sure that wasn't what they had in mind when they did the whole "Death and Resurrection of Superman" thing.

-- Ed

Well, there was "Kingdom Come," which attempted to use Superman and other superheroes as a metaphor for religious faith in a higher power (specifically, it used Christian imagery, but the metaphor can be applied to many other religions as well) and explore how that affects a person's willingness to act for himself rather than waiting for God (or Superman, or whoever) to sort everything out.
I don't know that it did a particularly good job on that front, but the attempt was there and gives a pretty good example of how that parallel could be used, at least conceptually if not necessarily in execution.

[Eddie G.]

Of course Superman isn't Jesus. But, unlike the gay connotation, the Jesus metaphor has a lot more weight to it and actually makes sense beyond a vague connection. In fact, in many cases it's blatant.How does it being a metaphor for homosexuality have any less weight?

[Daredevil_2003]

How does it being a metaphor for homosexuality have any less weight?Because it's extremely vague? The other metaphor is right in your face, it's undeniable, in fact, it's probably intentional. The gay one is something that could be applied to ANYONE. "We all wear masks" I believe was said by a certain portrayal of Batman (Val Kilmer, maybe? IDR)...so Superman's dual identities, same as any superhero's, can be applied to everyone who does not show their true self, or only to a select group, which applies to most of world. Not just gays.

[Sharklady]

Surely an argument can be made that Superman is actually a woman in disguise. After all, s/he's generally concerned about everybody, and takes care of other people's problems, often to the point that s/he's just taken for granted.

(No, no, no! say the filmmakers, with utter predictability.) :shrug:

[Azrael24]

On the look up in the sky video, they said that WB had the producers of smallville to put clark on a cross in S1 to make it look like jesus christ, so a lot of it is intentional.