Has Naruto lost its magic? (MANGA SPOILERS)

[Keiichi]

Well the "Reunion with Sasuke" has finally ended and IMHO it was the worst arc of the series. It seems to me naruto is starting to lose is magic and is getting stale really quick. Like many here I've followed naruto for years long before it reached Foreign shores and it pains me to see the series take a nose dive like this.

Part 2 started off real strong but then seemed to run out of gas by end of the Rescue Gaara Arc. It was a decent arc over all but the main point of the arc seemed to focus on "omg sakura is'nt usless anymore!". Now we go to the second Arc and it seems Kishimoto has lost interest in the series. We see naruto's character devolve into what he was at the beginning of the series. A hot headed brat that acted with out thinking. Not a veteran ninja who's trained under a sannin for the past 2 1/2 years. Note I did'nt expect him to be at Jir's or even kakashi's lvl but, I did expect a more Mature naruto who's learned to control his temper as well as his Kyuubi power.

Also we had 3 or 4 chapters where NOTHING happend. This happened during Kyuubi's rampage. We had 2 page spreads of kyuubi and/or Oro fighting each other. A mindless fight that offered no real plot advancemnt. Finally the end of the arc not only left us with more questions than answers but also drove the point home that kishi prefers Sasuke over his main character. Maybe I'm jumping the gun here but its not just this arc. Many will say naruto has'nt been as good since the chuunin exam.

Hopefully Kishi still has some magic in his pen other wise naruto's headed towared a dead end and we'll end up with a cop out ending like Shamen King.

[Mog]

Signed.

Naruto really has taken a nose dive. The story is becoming bland, and I'm really starting to hate some of the character choices. Naruto has shown zero growth besides a skill upgrade, yet Sasuke is now some uber Jounin level behemoth. Sakura is better, but Kakashi is now on the sidelines. Sai is rollercoaster of random decisions, so I can't really comment on him.

Seems like Team 7 really....sucks.

OT: I dig the Air Gear avatar. I, for one, can't wait for the Bandou Mitsuru/Ikki fight. Might have to get a Bandou avie myself and boycott Naruto.

[Timmay]

I had no problem with the Kyuubi fight, fight scenes are in mangas. They're usually more than one chapter in length.

I don't like super-powered Sasuke, I don't like watching team 7 stand around and do nothing.

[Funkmasta Zeph]

Signed.

I now legally qualify as a veteran. Due to sitting through EVERY LAST CHAPTER of "chase Sasuke" as they came out.
And EVERY LAST CHAPTER of the highly underwhelming Kakashi flashback.
And EVERY LAST CHAPTER of the "Chase Gaara" arc.
And EVERY LAST CHAPTER of Saisuke and Oro's unbeleivably lame base, and Sasukes swashbuckling fashion swap.

[Keiichi]

OT: I dig the Air Gear avatar. I, for one, can't wait for the Bandou Mitsuru/Ikki fight. Might have to get a Bandou avie myself and boycott Naruto.

Thanks. Air Gear is a great series (manga wise) more people should check it out.

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Disagree. I still enjoy Naruto.

Of course, this arc ended exactly as I expected it to, and anyone who was expecting a different ending was really fooling themselves.

The only mildly surprising thing currently is that Sai didn't wind up sacrificing himself, but I guess that'll be saved for the future.

[GWOtaku]

Its lost its old magic, yes, but not because of the current arc. Compared to the overall quality, Naruto has been below average since the time jump. Neither this arc nor the past one were that amazing or even fairly good, IMO. The Kyuubi Naruto vs. Orochimaru fight notwithstanding, in the last arc you had the infamously long Sasori fight while Naruto & Kakashi's battle was largely pushed to the sidelines.

But fights aside, development has been very questionable. Akastsuki members still appear to be nearly undefeatable. Sasori was barely killed, Team Gai had a close victory against mere clones of Itachi and Kisame that weren't nearly as powerful as the originals. Even with Kabuto and the incredibly improved Sasuke (who clearly outclasses Naruto and Sakura) we're told that Orochimaru STILL can't compete with Itachi and of all things he's praying Konoha ninjas will kill Akatsuki members off for him while he hides somewhere. Kishi's setting the bar so high that one has to wonder what kind of insane hoops the established cast will have to jump through in order to catch up.

By the way, Sasuke's improvement is simply ridiculous. Naruto seems to have hardly changed, whereas Sasuke has clearly become a lot more dangerous then before. Apparently he's at a level of Sharingan that can even suppress the Kyuubi, which is absurd when we know very well just how powerful it is. It doesn't help that he's an even bigger bonehead then before, and THAT takes some real effort to pull off.

As far as Team 7 goes, Yamato's a good character. Sakura's also a rare case of being clearly improved compared to her past self. Even though she didn't do much recently, we know from the Sasori battle that she's very much competant. Sai, however, is just strange and has gone from an emotionless enigma to super nice guy way too fast. Compared to the nine genin and the rest of the primary cast, he just isn't an interesting character. As for Naruto, he's the most shafted character post time-skip. He's as brash as he ever was and simply doesn't seem that much stronger compared to before, in fact he's argubly worse off because of his lack of control over the Kyuubi. We've yet to see a fresh technique from him, only improvements of old ones--disappointing. The only ray of hope is that thanks to this arc, the Kyuubi chakra has been so trivialized that Naruto has absolutely no options except to develop his ninja skills without it. Yamato's words that the Kyuubi wasn't his full strength were prophetic. As it is though, I agree that the lack of team 7's ability to do anything is very frustrating. Hell, Yamato hasn't even fought a real battle since he's been introduced. Finally he decides to "get serious," and then bam the arc is over. Heaven forbid we get some real ninja action in the arc.

And then there's the rest of the cast. We haven't seen all the former Genin yet, and only Team Gai has done much of anything post time skip. Kakashi's importance seems to be diminished by a lot, Jiraya's been MIA since the very beginning of the Save Gaara arc. One feels like questioning whether Kishimoto knows what to do with all these characters he's introduced.

Everything hinges on this next arc. Danzou's plans for civil war can't be left alone, and a serious arc in Konoha would be the perfect way to bring all the stray leaf ninja back into the story. This series has to get back to its roots, both literally and figuratively.

[Tash]

I'm just not feeling the new characters. They're all very bland compared to the ones from part one.

[KuwabaraTheMan]

I'm just not feeling the new characters. They're all very bland compared to the ones from part one.

I disagree on that note.

Sasori and Chiyo both rank in my Top 10 favorite characters. Sai is humorous, if nothing else.

Yamato isn't great, but he's still far more interesting then Kakashi ever was, imho.

[Tash]

I disagree on that note.

Sasori and Chiyo both rank in my Top 10 favorite characters. Sai is humorous, if nothing else.

Yamato isn't great, but he's still far more interesting then Kakashi ever was, imho.
I was mostly referring to their designs more than the characters themselves.

[Timmay]

I spent a while defending the manga.. I believe I'm really just disappointed over Kishimoto having them chase down Sasuke again only to give us a minor skirmish and revelations that created more questions..

[KuwabaraTheMan]

I was mostly referring to their designs more than the characters themselves.

Well, I guess I could agree that Sai and Yamato don't particularly stand out in a crowd. But I'm more interested in them being developed characters.

And as far as designs, I think Sasori, Deidara, and Chiyo all look pretty nice and dynamic.

[Conan-san]

Rumiko Takahashi should sue, that's her series extending technique Kishimoto's using.

All we need now is a "I need to train to make my Rensengen better!" arc and the illusion will be comeplete.

[Jowy Blight]

Agreed.

I wish Kishimoto would go ahead and change the series name to "Sasuke". He clearly favors him so much more the Naruto. He has also decided to make the Sharingan overpowered to the point that any normal ninja has pretty much loss the fight before it has even begun.

-Sai's personality changed too fast.
-Naruto's a weakling.
-Sakura was useful for all of one arc so far.
-Yamato is simply being wasted.

Did I miss anything?

[HellCat]

I just get the feeling he wants to end it. There doesn't seem to be any more passion or creativity, instead we get padding and questions where we should be getting some answers. I've been saying since the exam arc it was obvious he favoured Sasuke, so no suprise there.

I think a big problem was setting up Orochimaru too early. We got one general mission and then it was "Ooooh, big arcing plot lines! They're the second coming of the legendary trio!!". Orochimaru worked as a rogue element in the exam but beyond that he just hides and prattles on about taking over Sasuke. It's not like there's some mystery to him either since we know he just wants to become an immortal all-powerful ninja.
As for Naruto himself....well, he's technically outranked by people who are probably lower in terms of skill then him. I don't see what the point of the timejump was other than to apparently isolate Naruto further.

[MilkManX]

This is what happens with a Weekly Manga that gets popular. The magazine doesnt want the sales to drop so they try to make it last as long as possible and it hurts the overall story. I am still enjoying it but I am hoping that the ending arc comes up soon.

[Conan-san]

I'd also like to comment on how Fangirls eventualy ruin everything. It happened to Seed and it's happening here.

Note how fangirls are what give Sasuke his powers of awesome, I feel that if all the Sasuke fangirls in the world were dead/unconcious/comedicly knocked out for an unpecified period of time, that Sasuke would blow up in a fashion not unlike Sephiroth in FF7.

Or at least that's how I figgure.

[Funkmasta Zeph]

This is what happens with a Weekly Manga that gets popular. The magazine doesnt want the sales to drop so they try to make it last as long as possible and it hurts the overall story. I am still enjoying it but I am hoping that the ending arc comes up soon.

I don't think thats it.
As a story, Naruto clearly is nowhere near done.
We need to see this silly lil delinquent become Hokage and how he rises there.
So I don't think Kishimoto is being pressured to continue or go longer when theres so much coverage left.

Problem is, is that I don't think Kishimoto has any idea anymore on how to TELL his own story. You can almost see the fresh planning spirit die during the "ChaseSasuke" arc. I think he had the Chunnin exam and maybe even the Tsunade arc planned and figured "Well I have all these characters now, I'm sure I can concoct some great stories" But now I think he has to have realized he can't.

[HellCat]

I don't think thats it.
As a story, Naruto clearly is nowhere near done.
We need to see this silly lil delinquent become Hokage and how he rises there.
So I don't think Kishimoto is being pressured to continue or go longer when theres so much coverage left.

Problem is, is that I don't think Kishimoto has any idea anymore on how to TELL his own story. You can almost see the fresh planning spirit die during the "ChaseSasuke" arc. I think he had the Chunnin exam and maybe even the Tsunade arc planned and figured "Well I have all these characters now, I'm sure I can concoct some great stories" But now I think he has to have realized he can't.

The first 'Rescue Sasuke' arc was repetative- Shikamaru's team chase Sound Nin. Two from each party face off whilst others carry one. Sound Nin is arrogant and looks to win until Konoha Nin reveals a sure-win suicide technique. Repeat until both teams are whittled down.

[Duke]

Problem is, is that I don't think Kishimoto has any idea anymore on how to TELL his own story. You can almost see the fresh planning spirit die during the "ChaseSasuke" arc. I think he had the Chunnin exam and maybe even the Tsunade arc planned and figured "Well I have all these characters now, I'm sure I can concoct some great stories" But now I think he has to have realized he can't.
Well, he said in the US Shonen Jump a few months ago that he knows how the manga will eventually end. Who knows if that's changed at all, though.

[Funkmasta Zeph]

The first 'Rescue Sasuke' arc was repetative- Shikamaru's team chase Sound Nin. Two from each party face off whilst others carry one. Sound Nin is arrogant and looks to win until Konoha Nin reveals a sure-win suicide technique. Repeat until both teams are whittled down.

Yhea...I know...

[HellCat]

Yhea...I know...

Just giving my opinion.

[Royce]

I know i'm in the minority here, but I really enjoyed this chapter. Yeah I have my gripes with thing such as Sakura not doing anything, Naruto not fighting etc..

But the point of the chapter is to show that it maybe very likely Sasuke can't be saved. I personally find this a good turning point in the series.
Sasuke was a part of the main trio, Naruto and Sakura cared about him, so seeing him as a lost soul that doesn't care about anything but revenge on his brother is a big blow to his former friends hearts.


I like to quote someone else's opinion about the chapter from the animenation board. It reflects my belief:


This chapter marks a turning point in Sasuke's tragic downfall and Naruto's helplessness to it. These characters have to hit rock bottom before they can get back up again. Without these low points, there is no meaning to their struggles.

Let’s break the tragedy down bit by bit huh?

1.Kyuubi acknowledges that Sasuke’s chakra is as evil as his own, as evil as Uchiha Madara (who must be one helluva evil dude for kyuubi to acknowledge him).
This is Kishimoto telling us that the Sasuke we knew and loved is gone. That was Kishimoto telling us that Sasuke has gone bad and he aint’ going good for nobody - that Naruto ain’t wielding his magic with this one. There will be no conversion into the church of Naruto. He might convert Gaara, and Sai, and Neiji, and whoever else, but the person who needs to be converted the most? Nope. The person who Naruto wants to convert the most? Not going to happen. This is a more depressing prospect than I thought. No wonder Naruto cries at the end. I bloody well felt like crying!

2.Sasuke tells Naruto that he doesn’t care if Oro takes his body.
In fact, Sasuke doesn’t give a **** about what happens to him, or anyone, or anything, so long as Itachi is dead, one way or another. He’d give his life in an instant if that resulted in the death of Itachi. How tragic is that? Sasuke has completely lost his marbles. He is mentally unhinged. Worse, he has just gone and done exactly what Itachi told him to do – he is living a dishonourable existence full of hate. Rather than finding his own path to power, he is has walked the path that Itachi persuaded him to walk all along - and he doesn't even realise it.

3.Sasuke attempts to wipe out his former friends with That Jutsu and then tells Oro it’s pathetic not to use it.
Basically, Sasuke is past caring about them. He doesn’t give a ****. He is willing to be used by Oro, willing to kill his friends and willing to sacrifice himself for the death of his brother, who doesn't give a **** about him and only wants to see him grow in this way so as he can use Sasuke to test his strength. Sasuke has sunk low, low, low. He no longer respects even himself (which is probably why he doesn't bother with manners around Oro). Now folks, how tragic is that? No wonder Naruto was crying like a baby...I wanted to cry like a baby!


I'm looking forward to what will be coming up next, we still have a long way to go so who knows what will be instore for Naruto.

[Baseball]

I disagree. I really have liked all of part 2 thus far. The Naruto vs. Orochimaru fight was exciting, and it kept me coming back each time to see what happened. Although I get the feeling we won't see him for a while. The Gaara rescue arc was interesting as well. These two arcs feel more like set up for a larger story, if anything. Akatsuki's methods, the return of Orochimaru and Sasuke, and the development new characters are all something I want resolved more than anything else right now.

Sasuke was a rather large surprise as well. We all knew he was coming, but his attempted murder of them all wasn't something I would have thought to come. Aside from that, his desire to kill Itachi has grown so strong that he doesn't even care if he dies if he can kill his brother. After his parting with Naruto in part 1, I would have at least thought that he would be a little more lenient to them all. But right then and there, Sasuke was going to kill everyone without a moment's hesitation.

The hints being dropped are great as well. The cursed power of the Sharingan, and what the Nine-Tails has been saying. It's integrating more into the story and I'm excited to see what happens.

[Funkmasta Zeph]

Oh the dark hero falling to evil?
Your excited about this?


Its a storyline done so many times, and done so much better then this.

-Star Wars(Vader)
-Warcraft 3(Arthas)
-Appocalypse Now(mix of Kurtz and Martin Sheen)
-Dragonball(Vegeta)
-And Berserk (Gutts)
Once again I get this sneaking feeling that Kishimoto is TOO into Berserk.
He already blatantly ripped it off with the Akatsuki on the demon fingers.
But the inner beast, struggle with evil, and even the damn curse mark on the neck...

Sasuke is like a highly effeminate, whiny, bishhonen Gutts.
With none of the convincing pathos.

[Tash]

Once again I get this sneaking feeling that Kishimoto is TOO into Berserk.
He already blatantly ripped it off with the Akatsuki on the demon fingers.
But the inner beast, struggle with evil, and even the damn curse mark on the neck...
Funny you should mention that, because I've always thought that the rescuse Sasuke arc was almost TOO similar to Kinnikuman's 7 Devils arc. (although here are some major diffrences, the general structure of the arc is the same)

[Captain Highwind]

Rumiko Takahashi should sue, that's her series extending technique Kishimoto's using.

All we need now is a "I need to train to make my Rensengen better!" arc and the illusion will be comeplete.

As long as it's not a red Rensengen that's supposed to take down an Orichimaru barrier, then he can probably get away with it.

Actually, that would be a cool technique to see, plagiarism or not.

[Baseball]

Oh the dark hero falling to evil?
Your excited about this?
It's not so much Sasuke I'm excited about as I am the Sharingan. All I was really waiting was to see what he could do, and sure enough he proved it well. I'm waiting to see what all of the Chuunin can now really do, since we didn't see too much of that. Plus, what the hell has Naruto learned in three years? We've only seen him use the power of the Nine-Tails--I want to see some new techniques from the guy.

Akatsuki is another huge thing I want to see. I'm actually pretty relieved that three years hasn't strengthened the rookies enough to even take down one member, and their true motive is something I'm anticipating. Itachi especially, since he's hiding so much. There's just a lot going on, and in my opinion I think it's pretty cool.

[HellCat]

It's not so much Sasuke I'm excited about as I am the Sharingan. All I was really waiting was to see what he could do, and sure enough he proved it well. I'm waiting to see what all of the Chuunin can now really do, since we didn't see too much of that. Plus, what the hell has Naruto learned in three years? We've only seen him use the power of the Nine-Tails--I want to see some new techniques from the guy.

Akatsuki is another huge thing I want to see. I'm actually pretty relieved that three years hasn't strengthened the rookies enough to even take down one member, and their true motive is something I'm anticipating. Itachi especially, since he's hiding so much. There's just a lot going on, and in my opinion I think it's pretty cool.

I get the feeling the Akatsuki just want to stick a demon into each of them and rule the world as undisputed all powerful rulers.

[Scirel]

You know what would be cool right now?

a Jonin exam.


Also, about the "good guy turns evil" thing, IMO, that's a plotline that as long as it's taken gradually and seriously, is always good. It's also hardly overused. Two of the exampled posted weren`t really true. Vegeta started out as a bad guy, and In Apocalypse now we never actually saw Kurtz as good, just through short flashbacks.

You might have been thinking of "good guy from the past we haven`t seen before shows up as evil now", which IS used a lot, but this isn`t that kind of case.

[Funkmasta Zeph]

Vegeta started out as a bad guy,

His Boo saga issues exemplified this cliche VERY WELL. Including the evil heart transformation.


and In Apocalypse now we never actually saw Kurtz as good, just through short flashbacks.

The entire underplot with Willard reading the letters and other files showed a man(Kurtz) descending into madness, into a heart of darkness. The whole movie was about descent into darkness. Every inch of it.



You might have been thinking of "good guy from the past we haven`t seen before shows up as evil now", which IS used a lot, but this isn`t that kind of case.


No, dark hero wrestling with dark side is exactly what I meant.

[Scirel]

Even in the Buu saga Vegeta never really 'became evil" just gave into an impulse for more power that he quickly realized was the wrong desicsion after 2 fights, paid for it with his life(which is never worth much in DBZ) and brought back as good again. It's hardly the same.

The example that is closest to This in naruto is Star wars, where we seen Anakin as a good guy for a long time, then we see him turn evil and stay evil until the very end.

AN may be about the same general thing, but, for one, it's comparing a movie to a TV series, and two, it's done in a completely different way.

[Funkmasta Zeph]

Even in the Buu saga Vegeta never really 'became evil" just gave into an impulse for more power that he quickly realized was the wrong desicsion after 2 fights, paid for it with his life(which is never worth much in DBZ) and brought back as good again. It's hardly the same.

Then joining Orochimaru?
Giving in? Allowing himself to upgrade power for a dark desire?



AN may be about the same general thing, but, for one, it's comparing a movie to a TV series, and two, it's done in a completely different way.


Both are based off books, and if anything when comparing a TV series to a movie. The movie is at a disadvantage because of length.

Both are about descents into darkness by not "villains" but anyone.
I'm saying such a theme is done poorly in Naruto and has been done excellently many times by other people.

[Scirel]

Then joining Orochimaru?
Giving in? Allowing himself to upgrade power for a dark desire?

It's about time mainly. Vegeta went there and back quickly, and realized that he made a rash descision. Anakin and sasuke have stayed there for many fights, had a lot of time to realize what they did, and still stayed where they were.


I'm saying such a theme is done poorly in Naruto and has been done excellently many times by other people.

That is a vaild opinion, but I disagree with the "many times" part, and that is my main point. This theme has many varations, and Naruto is following one that is close to star wars, but unlike most of the others.

The thing I`m talking about is a longtime good guy becoming bad, and STAYING bad for an equally if not longer period of time, if not until the end or almost the end.

[Funkmasta Zeph]

It's about time mainly. Vegeta went there and back quickly, and realized that he made a rash descision. Anakin and sasuke have stayed there for many fights, had a lot of time to realize what they did, and still stayed where they were.

Its still an example of the Heart of Darkness theme. Its a tiny one, but still one I felt was pulled off better.





That is a vaild opinion, but I disagree with the "many times" part, and that is my main point. This theme has many varations, and Naruto is following one that is close to star wars, but unlike most of the others.

The thing I`m talking about is a longtime good guy becoming bad, and STAYING bad for an equally if not longer period of time, if not until the end or almost the end.


Your thinking on plot terma, I'm thinking on thematic terms.

[Marvin Tikvah]

I think its intersting enough to keep paying attention but it has been making me a bit uncomfortable. Super Sasuke was just unexpected, I mean yeah I figured he'd be strong, stronger than Naruto and yeah I figured he would not be coming back at the end of this arc. But him suppressing the Kyuubi was just uncalled for.

Sakura started off strong in the Gaara arc, and her feelings for Naruto were something important to the people following the couplings. But she seemed to slip back after that doing really nothing. I like her better now since she's serious about her skills but she seems to be going back to "NARUTO! SASUKE!" I would have liked to see her punch someone in the face.

I think this manga has a long, long, long time to go before it ends. Akatsuki is too strong for them so I'm expecting power-ups, training sessions, plot-building missions, character development, long arcs where it takes what seems like half a year to beat one member of Akatsuki and fights with Oro and other strong yet not main villian villians before we actually get near the true main bad guy. Lots to go so I guess since its still interesting and I am looking forward to see what he can do I'll stick around as much as I can stomach.

If he goes beyond Super Sasuke I dont know if I will be able to handle it.

[Cheetatron]

The first 'Rescue Sasuke' arc was repetative- Shikamaru's team chase Sound Nin. Two from each party face off whilst others carry one. Sound Nin is arrogant and looks to win until Konoha Nin reveals a sure-win suicide technique. Repeat until both teams are whittled down.That was only true with chouji and neji, no one else imployed a suicide tactic to win. The rest of shikamarus team was over powerd with no chance of beating their rival solo.

[Cheetatron]

Rumiko Takahashi should sue, that's her series extending technique Kishimoto's using.

All we need now is a "I need to train to make my Rensengen better!" arc and the illusion will be comeplete.I think you mean allusion(when a story refrences another unrelated story)

[Conan-san]

I think you mean allusion(when a story refrences another unrelated story)I meen exactly what I meen.

And do you know what would probably get me intrested in this again? If they drop the Sasuke thing (It's pritty damned obvious that if he's ever going to come back, it's pritty much granateed it's going to be in a body bag) and get on with Naruto finaly geting a few ranks up.

Or hell, anything that has nothing to do with Sasuke, let's have a whole arc of Kohomaru geting upto mischef, that would be amusing.

[Icer]

I agree, the series has gotten much, much worse.

The manga peaked at the Sandaime vs Orochimaru // Gaara vs Naruto fight.


It built up to that arc incredibly well, everything since has been a let down, with a few good moments in between.
The stuff that irks me most: Sasuke-Chase arc, Sasori/Deidara fight, the aftermath of that fight (Hey look new Akatsuki guy to replace Sasori nevermind we just spent 4 months killing one off. Oh yeah Deidara's not dead either), and now a glimpse of the new Sasuke.


It's been average for a long time, so I'm not surprised. And I dont like the direction it's going in.

Uchicha's can do anything they want. Orochimaru is still running around, reminds me of the Inu Yasha bad guy. No more Kyuubi powerups even though the main character hasn't won a fight without it since he beat Kiba in the Chuunin trials. Naruto is also still as dumb as ever. Sakura's power-up to relevance. New characters devoid of any personality and traits that make you want to like them (Sai/Yamato).

It's barely holding my attention anymore.

I was really hoping Sasuke would kill Sakura, or at least Sai in these past few chapters. To make the story fresh, instead of our friends bad boohoo I gotta save him.

[HellCat]

One thing I will say- I've been on the fence for this for a while, but after the current standard I feel comfortable saying that if anyone's looking for the successor to Dragon Ball it's definetly One Piece.

[Kazuya Prower]

One thing I will say- I've been on the fence for this for a while, but after the current standard I feel comfortable saying that if anyone's looking for the successor to Dragon Ball it's definetly One Piece.

Finally, I've been waiting for someone to say that.

[creeper]

I don't think Naruto has lost it's magic at all. It's the starting of part 2, and if it were the anime, it would only be a few episodes in. So logically I wouldn't expect more than we've already gotten.

Right now this first part of part 2 is to re-introduce all the existing characters, and with some, give a hint of what they are now capable of.

Is it any surprise that Sasuke is as powerful as he is? If you think about it logically, than your answer should be no. He is a genius studying with a Sannin. Chances are he was able to pick so many things up fast that his range of knowledge grew considerably. One thing he would have had knowledge on is seals, like the one that keeps kyuubi back, and with his sharingan it's no surprising that he's able to enter Naruto's mind. If you think about it, that's almost what Itachi does. So why wouldn't something similar be acheivable by Sasuke?

People think too much because they want so much answered in a little amount of time. This is the start, so don't expect too much answered til the end. Just common sense.

[HellCat]

I think the issue most have is that Sasuke seems to have shown incredible growth, whilst his two team mates haven't really improved. Like I said, I've been saying since the latter half of the exam that we were seeing a Sasuke bias. Adding Sasuke as a powerful villain only makes things more confusing, since we already have Orochimaru, the Akatsuki and the conspiracy in Konoha. I'd rather see our title character's parentage explained than more focus given to Sasuke by deepening the mystery of his bloodline. All these new questions just seem like stalling to me. Naruto has gone from a fun and clever series to, as some fans have joked, 'emo ninjas'.

[Conan-san]

as some fans have joked, 'emo ninjas'. It's not even Ninjas It's just realy Sasuke the Pirate at this point

Like I said before, if Sasuke wasn't thought up of this series would of been a damned sight better.

[creeper]

I think the issue most have is that Sasuke seems to have shown incredible growth, whilst his two team mates haven't really improved. Like I said, I've been saying since the latter half of the exam that we were seeing a Sasuke bias. Adding Sasuke as a powerful villain only makes things more confusing, since we already have Orochimaru, the Akatsuki and the conspiracy in Konoha. I'd rather see our title character's parentage explained than more focus given to Sasuke by deepening the mystery of his bloodline. All these new questions just seem like stalling to me. Naruto has gone from a fun and clever series to, as some fans have joked, 'emo ninjas'.

I don't know why this would be an issue now, considering Sasuke has always been superior to Naruto and Sakura. Need I bring up the first bell test. Sasuke was in a different league then. Sasuke was the only one that was already chuunin level during the exam too. Naruto might have gotten far, but he hadn't done anything that would pass him and make him worthy of being a chuunin.

The only thing that caused Naruto to even remotely be on Sasuke's level was his mastering the use of his kyuubi chakra, and the learning of the rasengan. Other than that he could never compete with Sasuke. That has been a big focal point in the series, but no one notices because their so entranced by everything else. Now the author forces everyone to see the difference. Now without Kyuubi and being exhausted Naruto isn't a match for Sasuke, as it should be this early on. Now Naruto gets to focus on himself, and mastering his own chakra.

As for Sakura, it isn't that she's useless this time, as much as her not knowing of her own capabilities. Charging at Sasuke without any type of real plan, never a good idea. She's a medical ninja. She needs to remember that her skills are limited in other areas. Smashy smashy isn't something that works on a genius. She should have concentrated on taking care of her teammates rather than putting the burden on herself, and trying to show off her new skills.

People say Sakura was useful during the Sasori arc, but her usefulness never came from the smashy smashy. It came for her knowledge of poisons and her healing ability. Those are where she excels. Chiyo did the majority of the manipulating, so when it came to recognizing the majority of the attacks and traps that sasori had, that had to be credited to Chiyo herself. In that instance, Sakura knew her role; therefore, she didn't over extend herself as she did against Sasuke.

Again, this is simple story telling. You figure most of this out if your not so blinded by other plot-points.

Like I said in my earlier post. This is just the begining of part 2. We're only a few episodes in. Don't expect anything answered so early. This is just for reintroduction purposes. That purpose has been served, now they will probaly begin the meat of the story again as all the players have been re-established.

Patience isn't something that this generation has in terms of story-telling, it seems.

[HellCat]

Seems you're nursing a pretty big Sasuke bias yourself. He is talented but I think you're overstating the difference. Even without the fox's chakra, Naruto is a force to be reckoned with due to his creative thinking and his refusal to ever give up. I think Kakashi perfectly spelt out the strengths and weaknesses of the 3 characters within the first arc.

[KuwabaraTheMan]

The reason Sasuke is being built up the most is because enemies all ways get built up much more then the good guys.

We have to believe that the obstacles are strong and we have to think the heroes have no way of winning.

And as for the rediculous notion of a Sasuke bias: Kishimoto has said repeatedly, including as recently as this year, that Naruto is his favorite character. He even said 'Sasuke's character is the worst' in an inerview once.

[HellCat]

The reason Sasuke is being built up the most is because enemies all ways get built up much more then the good guys.

We have to believe that the obstacles are strong and we have to think the heroes have no way of winning.

And as for the rediculous notion of a Sasuke bias: Kishimoto has said repeatedly, including as recently as this year, that Naruto is his favorite character. He even said 'Sasuke's character is the worst' in an inerview once.

Then why is Naruto currently "The Genin Who Couldn't" ?

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Then why is Naruto currently "The Genin Who Couldn't" ?

Because Naruto is supposed to be, and is most interesting as, an underdog.

If Naruto was some awesome character who pwned everyone he would cease to be interesting.

Kishimoto has always intended for Naruto to be the underdog. That's what makes him such a great character.

The opposite of that would be what would signify the manga 'losing its magic'.

[Conan-san]

Because Naruto is supposed to be, and is most interesting as, an underdog.

If Naruto was some awesome character who pwned everyone he would cease to be interesting.

Kishimoto has always intended for Naruto to be the underdog. That's what makes him such a great character.

The opposite of that would be what would signify the manga 'losing its magic'. Well in that case, make any other ninja "The [rank] that could", seriouly, the one Nin in that whole series that doesn't franking deserve such power and the author-!

Honestly!

If the Author wanted this big drawn out L and Kirra conflict, that's fine, but at least make it so that it's intreting.
Course then again, Sasuke could very well be Kira indeed...what a sad state of afairs.

[HellCat]

Because Naruto is supposed to be, and is most interesting as, an underdog.

If Naruto was some awesome character who pwned everyone he would cease to be interesting.

Kishimoto has always intended for Naruto to be the underdog. That's what makes him such a great character.

The opposite of that would be what would signify the manga 'losing its magic'.

You don't say your main character is going away for special training, then when we see him again have the result be basically nothing and have the cast telling him he needs proper training. Especially not when in the same space of time his rival has become a virtual powerhouse.

[KuwabaraTheMan]

You don't say your main character is going away for special training, then when we see him again have the result be basically nothing and have the cast telling him he needs proper training. Especially not when in the same space of time his rival has become a virtual powerhouse.

Naruto still hasn't shown off the results of his training yet. He still has 'that jutsu' to use, for example.

And Naruto has to be below Sasuke for the story to work. Otherwise we have no conflict.

Naruto is supposed to be a story about an underdog, not Dragonball.

[HellCat]

Naruto still hasn't shown off the results of his training yet. He still has 'that jutsu' to use, for example.

And Naruto has to be below Sasuke for the story to work. Otherwise we have no conflict.

Naruto is supposed to be a story about an underdog, not Dragonball.

Forget underdog, Naruto is getting crapped on. The current arc would have been more satisfying if it felt as if both Naruto and Sasuke had grown, not "I'm Sasuke, I'm so awesome". If Naruto had shown real growth and been beaten, it would have been more acceptable than what we got.

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Forget underdog, Naruto is getting crapped on. The current arc would have been more satisfying if it felt as if both Naruto and Sasuke had grown, not "I'm Sasuke, I'm so awesome". If Naruto had shown real growth and been beaten, it would have been more acceptable than what we got.

WHAT?

Naruto could barely stand by the time he even encountered Sasuke. He had a a fight with Orochimaru of all people, and had completely expended all of his energy.

Of course Sasuke's going to look more impressive. He's fully rested, while Naruto can't even walk.

[HellCat]

WHAT?

Naruto could barely stand by the time he even encountered Sasuke. He had a a fight with Orochimaru of all people, and had completely expended all of his energy.

Of course Sasuke's going to look more impressive. He's fully rested, while Naruto can't even walk.

Don't get me started on Orochimaru, who went to pot ever since the Hokage removed the use of his arms. All he does now is show up, makes some noise then runs back to his secret base.

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Don't get me started on Orochimaru, who went to pot ever since the Hokage removed the use of his arms. All he does now is show up, makes some noise then runs back to his secret base.

Well, Orochimaru is the most powerful character in the series. He can't be having constant fights, because there's no one who can really fight him at full strength.

[HellCat]

Well, Orochimaru is the most powerful character in the series. He can't be having constant fights, because there's no one who can really fight him at full strength.

Most powerful? Doubt it, don't forget he's scared of Sasuke's brother. Orochimaru lost alot of what made him effective after the exam. I can appreciate story telling that takes time but Orochimaru is like an annoying yapping dog these days.

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Most powerful? Doubt it, don't forget he's scared of Sasuke's brother. Orochimaru lost alot of what made him effective after the exam. I can appreciate story telling that takes time but Orochimaru is like an annoying yapping dog these days.

He's not scared of Itachi, he merely claimed 'He is stronger then me'.

But Itachi said that he would have no chance against Jiraiya, so its hard to view him as a real threat.

So in terms of power, Orochimaru is the most fearesome villain.

[HellCat]

He's not scared of Itachi, he merely claimed 'He is stronger then me'.

But Itachi said that he would have no chance against Jiraiya, so its hard to view him as a real threat.

So in terms of power, Orochimaru is the most fearesome villain.

Do....do I get hit if I say I'm waiting for him to team up with Jango from One Piece?

[Conan-san]

Do....do I get hit if I say I'm waiting for him to team up with Jango from One Piece? No, he was pritty awesome himself.

[Keiichi]

@ Creeper: We all know sasuke is powerful but Kishi has made him too powerful yet not powerful enough it seems. His chakara is enough to make Kyubi take notice yet he's still no where near itachi's level? Dose this honestly make sense to you? If itachi is that friggen strong then the Akatsuki leader is a god. Yes we know the 2nd half is only two arcs in but if this is any indication on how kishi plans to conduct the rest of naruto then count me out. He's taken narutos 300 plus chapters of development and thrown them out the window. Like I said in my first post I did'nt expect naruto to be a nin at Jir's level or even Kakashi's. What I did expect was a more mature and skilled naruto. One who trained under a friggen sannin for 2 1/2 years. He may not be as skilled has sasuke but he's not weak either. He did master the Rasengan on his own in a short amount of time after all.

@Kuwabara: Naruto may be an underdog but he is'nt a rookie either. Again naruto we've seen so far in part 2 is no better off than the naruto we saw at the beginning at the series save that he's improved his old tricks. Also if Oro is so powerful then why can't he beat Itachi and why is he afraid of the akatsuki? I'm not saying he's weak but going on what kishi is saying he is'nt as powerful as you claim he is. Its funny to mention dragon ball because thats basically what naruto has become. Naruto must now train to become stronger than sasuke and who ever else he has to fight. This is why I say naruto is starting to lose its "magic". The story has become stale and Oro will probley end up the main villian of the series when he should have been killed off long ago. Much like a certain other villian in anouther series that shall remain namless.

[HellCat]

I completly agree with the straw hat namesake.

[Jowy Blight]

I don't know why this would be an issue now, considering Sasuke has always been superior to Naruto and Sakura. Need I bring up the first bell test. Sasuke was in a different league then. Sasuke was the only one that was already chuunin level during the exam too. Naruto might have gotten far, but he hadn't done anything that would pass him and make him worthy of being a chuunin.
Sasuke was stronger, but he wasn't THAT far ahead of Naruto during the begining of the series. Also, what do you mean that Naruto wasn't chuunin level during the exam? He beat freaking Neji for crying out loud. He also saved Sasuke and Sakura from Gaara without using the Resengan at all.


The only thing that caused Naruto to even remotely be on Sasuke's level was his mastering the use of his kyuubi chakra, and the learning of the rasengan. Other than that he could never compete with Sasuke.
The kyuubi chakra is a big plus and it's mainly there to offset the overpowered Sharingan. That doesn't change the fact that they both were pretty much dead even without it as seen during the begining of the Sasuke Chase arc.


Again, this is simple story telling. You figure most of this out if your not so blinded by other plot-points.

Like I said in my earlier post. This is just the begining of part 2. We're only a few episodes in. Don't expect anything answered so early. This is just for reintroduction purposes. That purpose has been served, now they will probaly begin the meat of the story again as all the players have been re-established.

Patience isn't something that this generation has in terms of story-telling, it seems.
We are over 60 chapters in, it's a little more then a few episodes at this point. The main problem is that after he worked his ass off to catch up to Sasuke during part 1 only for three years to past and end up where he started from again. It's like we've returned to the begining of the series powerwise between them.

It also doesn't help that the author felt the need to waste whole chapters with nothing happening. Patience wouldn't be necessary if this was actually being done in an interesting manner rather then Sasuke chase redux.

[Timmay]

I think the whole purpose of this arc is to have Naruto and Sakura realize how long gone Sasuke is, and to have Naruto stop relying on Kyuubi. As Kyuubi is destructive to him, his friends, and is useless against Sasuke. Yamato also noted that Naruto himself had to be special in order to use Kyuubi like he did. So we'll probably be seeing Naruto not using the Kyuubi anymore.

[Funkmasta Zeph]

I think the whole purpose of this arc is to have Naruto and Sakura realize how long gone Sasuke is, and to have Naruto stop relying on Kyuubi. As Kyuubi is destructive to him, his friends, and is useless against Sasuke. Yamato also noted that Naruto himself had to be special in order to use Kyuubi like he did. So we'll probably be seeing Naruto not using the Kyuubi anymore.

The Beast of Darkne- I mean Kyubii certainly isn't gone for good.

[KuwabaraTheMan]

@Kuwabara: Naruto may be an underdog but he is'nt a rookie either. Again naruto we've seen so far in part 2 is no better off than the naruto we saw at the beginning at the series save that he's improved his old tricks.
He hasn't had a real fight yet.

We didn't see the fight against Kakashi, and everything else was the Kyuubi, not him.

We know Naruto has new jutsu he hasn't shown yet, so why don't you wait for him to show them?


Also if Oro is so powerful then why can't he beat Itachi and why is he afraid of the akatsuki? I'm not saying he's weak but going on what kishi is saying he is'nt as powerful as you claim he is.
He isn't afraid of the Akatsuki. He was willing to attack one of their strongest members(Sasori) head on. However he and Kabuto would rather send others to fight the Akatsuki so they can avoid unnecessary fights.

As for Itachi, the Sharingan. Orochimaru is a jutsu freak, so he's worried about the Sharingan copying his jutsu that's all.


And let's go by Kishimoto's words, the 2nd Databook:
Itachi's bio: talks about his relationship with Sasuke, mostly
Kisame's bio: talks about his relationship with Itachi, and the Seven Mist Swordsman
Orochimaru's bio: Calls him a GOD, and goes on and on about his evil ambitions and great power
Kabuto's bio: talks about him being evil, talks about how he has secret ambitions that haven't been shown, claims he's on the same level as Orochimaru

hmm, I wonder which villains Kishimoto is setting up to be more important in the long run...:shrug:

Its funny to mention dragon ball because thats basically what naruto has become. Naruto must now train to become stronger than sasuke and who ever else he has to fight. This is why I say naruto is starting to lose its "magic". The story has become stale and Oro will probley end up the main villian of the series when he should have been killed off long ago. Much like a certain other villian in anouther series that shall remain namless.
Orochimaru is not like Naraku.

And Orochimaru will probably be the second to last villain(Kabuto of course being the final villain).

Orochimaru should not have been killed off long ago. What kind of idea is that?

Orochimaru is connected to every single plot line in the series, and is one of the strongest ninja to ever live.

I'll tell you this now, we won't even start to have Orochimaru dealt with until all of the Akatsuki members are dead. He's far, far more important then any of them to the series.

[Tash]

@ Creeper: We all know sasuke is powerful but Kishi has made him too powerful yet not powerful enough it seems. His chakara is enough to make Kyubi take notice yet he's still no where near itachi's level? Dose this honestly make sense to you? If itachi is that friggen strong then the Akatsuki leader is a god. Yes we know the 2nd half is only two arcs in but if this is any indication on how kishi plans to conduct the rest of naruto then count me out. He's taken narutos 300 plus chapters of development and thrown them out the window. Like I said in my first post I did'nt expect naruto to be a nin at Jir's level or even Kakashi's. What I did expect was a more mature and skilled naruto. One who trained under a friggen sannin for 2 1/2 years. He may not be as skilled has sasuke but he's not weak either. He did master the Rasengan on his own in a short amount of time after all.

@Kuwabara: Naruto may be an underdog but he is'nt a rookie either. Again naruto we've seen so far in part 2 is no better off than the naruto we saw at the beginning at the series save that he's improved his old tricks. Also if Oro is so powerful then why can't he beat Itachi and why is he afraid of the akatsuki? I'm not saying he's weak but going on what kishi is saying he is'nt as powerful as you claim he is. Its funny to mention dragon ball because thats basically what naruto has become. Naruto must now train to become stronger than sasuke and who ever else he has to fight. This is why I say naruto is starting to lose its "magic". The story has become stale and Oro will probley end up the main villian of the series when he should have been killed off long ago. Much like a certain other villian in anouther series that shall remain namless.
I'm with the "Orochimaru is BSing Sasuke. Sasuke's strong enough to hold his own against Itachi, (not stand a chance, but not get murdered) but Orochimaru isn't because of Itachi's Sharingan. (which pretty much owns everyone who doesn't have a Sharingan) So by lying to Sasuke, Sasuke will give him the Sharingan to counter Itachi" camp. (although I REALLY hope that there's more to it than that)

[creeper]

Sasuke was stronger, but he wasn't THAT far ahead of Naruto during the begining of the series. Also, what do you mean that Naruto wasn't chuunin level during the exam? He beat freaking Neji for crying out loud. He also saved Sasuke and Sakura from Gaara without using the Resengan at all.

There was a big explanation about what it takes to be chuunin, that it wasn't just a physical thing, but mental thing too. Naruto and Neji lacked that at the time. You have to be able to be a team leader also. During the test Naruto hadn't exihibited it yet.



The kyuubi chakra is a big plus and it's mainly there to offset the overpowered Sharingan. That doesn't change the fact that they both were pretty much dead even without it as seen during the begining of the Sasuke Chase arc.

Like I said, the mastery of the rasengan and the mastery of the kyuubi chaakra is what made them on each others level. Without the rasengan there would be no "equal" ground.



We are over 60 chapters in, it's a little more then a few episodes at this point. The main problem is that after he worked his ass off to catch up to Sasuke during part 1 only for three years to past and end up where he started from again. It's like we've returned to the begining of the series powerwise between them.

They took Naruto's "short cut" away, because he started relying too much on it. He deserves to be where he is now. He needs to learn to use his own skills and chakra. Shadow clones and the rasengan are both things naruto learned by himself. He can do so much if he applys himself and not take short cuts.


It also doesn't help that the author felt the need to waste whole chapters with nothing happening. Patience wouldn't be necessary if this was actually being done in an interesting manner rather then Sasuke chase redux.

Everyone interpruts things differently. As a person who enjoys both writing stories and reading them also, I don't think there is anything wrong with chapters that move the story or explain things to the reader. Not only that there are a lot of those chapters, that set up for things that are forthcoming.

[Kaiser0120]

I know this isn't an "What Do You Think Will Happen?" thread, but... Does anyone have the idea that maybe Sasuke is trying to become good friends with Orochimaru, just to kill him to gain the Mangekyou Sharingan?

Just a thought...

[KuwabaraTheMan]

I know this isn't an "What Do You Think Will Happen?" thread, but... Does anyone have the idea that maybe Sasuke is trying to become good friends with Orochimaru, just to kill him to gain the Mangekyou Sharingan?

Just a thought...

Given that he shows no feelings at all towards Orochimaru, I don't really think so.

I think he's just content with sacrificing his body to kill Itachi.

Not to mention even if by some miracle Sasuke reached the level of strength to kill Orochimaru, he still has the Cursed Seal, so he can't turn against him.

[Jowy Blight]

There was a big explanation about what it takes to be chuunin, that it wasn't just a physical thing, but mental thing too. Naruto and Neji lacked that at the time. You have to be able to be a team leader also. During the test Naruto hadn't exihibited it yet.
Clearly Sasuke didn't have the mental part either since he didn't become a chuunin.


Like I said, the mastery of the rasengan and the mastery of the kyuubi chaakra is what made them on each others level. Without the rasengan there would be no "equal" ground.
As I said before, if you read the start of the Sasuke chase arc you see that even with the Sharingan on, they were equal (Naruto wasn't even using the Kyuubi chakra).


They took Naruto's "short cut" away, because he started relying too much on it. He deserves to be where he is now. He needs to learn to use his own skills and chakra. Shadow clones and the rasengan are both things naruto learned by himself. He can do so much if he applys himself and not take short cuts.
That's not really his fault seeing as Jiraya must pushing Naruto to use it more since Naruto didn't really use the kyuubi chakra during part 1 (when he did, he would usually stop for a while after). He's been using it all the time since part 2 started, so it must of been Jiraya telling him to use it more. The Kyuubi is indeed a huge crutch and I'm beyond happy to see it go. However, the way 'that jutsu' has been build up, it had better be amazing.


Everyone interpruts things differently. As a person who enjoys both writing stories and reading them also, I don't think there is anything wrong with chapters that move the story or explain things to the reader. Not only that there are a lot of those chapters, that set up for things that are forthcoming.
I suppose so. I'm just rather tired of the author wasting time with making Naruto restate his goals over and over again. Then the constant reaction shots and "..." type of dialogue. It feels like he's just stalling.

[creeper]

Clearly Sasuke didn't have the mental part either since he didn't become a chuunin.

Actually the judge said that Sasuke was already on the chuunin level. Unfortunatley the exam was incomplete because of the gaara incident. When Tsunade had read the thirds note, only shikamaru had been qualified, but from what the judge said Sasuke would have been easily promoted, plus at the time he was a missing ninja anyways, so it couldn't and wouldn't have been granted to him anyways.




That's not really his fault seeing as Jiraya must pushing Naruto to use it more since Naruto didn't really use the kyuubi chakra during part 1 (when he did, he would usually stop for a while after). He's been using it all the time since part 2 started, so it must of been Jiraya telling him to use it more. The Kyuubi is indeed a huge crutch and I'm beyond happy to see it go. However, the way 'that jutsu' has been build up, it had better be amazing.

Using and overusing are two different things. Yes Jaraiya taught him how to harness the power, but he never said, let it overwhelm you. Naruto took it to that extreme, because of his lack of power, and need to bridge the gap in such a short time. It was acceptable in part 1 because he had to get Sasuke back right away. In part 2 he had 3 years to improve and develop his own skills, but right away he jumps the gun and uses the kyuubi chakra. Which is the obvious reason the author made sure to put a hold on it for a while. That's story telling right there. He made Naruto see the error of his ways. Now we can hope for the best and see Naruto truly shine.



I suppose so. I'm just rather tired of the author wasting time with making Naruto restate his goals over and over again. Then the constant reaction shots and "..." type of dialogue. It feels like he's just stalling.


Naruto's goal is to become the Hokage. He actually lost that for a while trying to get Sasuke back. You even see Sasuke poke fun at Naruto and Naruto himself made the comment, someone who can't save his friend is not worthy of being Hokage.

This isn't a retread of the same thing. This is Naruto coming to grips with his shortcomings. His unfaltering demeanor is now starting to bend under pressure. This isn't the same. This is a totally different direction as there was no victory for Naruto this time. He has to reaffirm his faith, something that hasn't been shaken since back with Gaara.

It can't be stalling as I said in the above sets Naruto up to finally put his money where his mouth is.....Naruto is in a situation where has no choice to improve with his own skills. Something he hasn't had to do in a long while.

[Jowy Blight]

Actually the judge said that Sasuke was already on the chuunin level. Unfortunatley the exam was incomplete because of the gaara incident. When Tsunade had read the thirds note, only shikamaru had been qualified, but from what the judge said Sasuke would have been easily promoted, plus at the time he was a missing ninja anyways, so it couldn't and wouldn't have been granted to him anyways.
Wow, I don't remember that at all. I need to re-read the chuunin exam, its been awhile. Still, it seems weird that they'd promote Sasuke seeing as his mental state wasn't all that much better then Neji's.


Using and overusing are two different things. Yes Jaraiya taught him how to harness the power, but he never said, let it overwhelm you. Naruto took it to that extreme, because of his lack of power, and need to bridge the gap in such a short time. It was acceptable in part 1 because he had to get Sasuke back right away. In part 2 he had 3 years to improve and develop his own skills, but right away he jumps the gun and uses the kyuubi chakra. Which is the obvious reason the author made sure to put a hold on it for a while. That's story telling right there. He made Naruto see the error of his ways. Now we can hope for the best and see Naruto truly shine.
Well, either that or Jiraya made the Kyuubi chakra a vocal point of the training. As that would also explain the constant use of it.



It can't be stalling as I said in the above sets Naruto up to finally put his money where his mouth is.....Naruto is in a situation where has no choice to improve with his own skills. Something he hasn't had to do in a long while.
Well, lets hope so. Naruto really needs to regain the respect of many fans and show that he wasn't wasting 3 years.

Sakura and Sasuke have both had their time to shine and show how they improved. Now it's Naruto's turn. I just hope it doesn't take another 60 chapters to show us.

[creeper]

Wow, I don't remember that at all. I need to re-read the chuunin exam, its been awhile. Still, it seems weird that they'd promote Sasuke seeing as his mental state wasn't all that much better then Neji's.


It's in chapter 115. i went back to make sure I wasn't wrong too.

[song cycle]

Interesting thread. This last arc has been pretty contraversial but let's look at it from both sides.

The good
I think this arc needed to happen for a few reasons. Most importantly to once and for all end any speculation as to whether Sasuke will come back. Not only does he know that Oro will be possessing his body, he doesn't even care. Sasuke is now set up to be a powerful villian. Is this plot dynamic cliche? Yes, but that doesn't mean Kishimoto won't do anything interesting with it. Sometimes it's better to have a villian that the readers have SOME emotional investment in, as opposed to someone like Oro, who's background and motivation are basically not well known.

Kishi is a master of foreshadowing and Sasuke's betrayal completes some re-occurring themes in the series. Most importantly that team 7 is now a perfect reflection of the old Sannin group [obviously Nar=Jiraiya, Sas=Oro and Sak=Tsunade ... actually if you are paying close attention there is one more part of that reflection that Kishi is hinting at]. The Master-Student relationship is something that is very important to the series. Also note that the last thing we saw before the timeskip was Jiraiya telling Naruto that there was no chance of bringing his former comrade back ... when Naruto realizes this in the last chapter it is devastating; I think his failure to deliver on his "promise of a lifetime" is the first time he truly fails at ANYTHING in the series. So obviously this arc has been foreshadowed and built-up and needed to reach some closure, this isn't just filler made to draw out the series.

The not-so-bad
Naruto not displaying any growth: Yeah I kind of agree, but Kishi wants to show Naruto's growth ON SCREEN as opposed to OFF SCREEN. His painful realization that he has lost Sasuke will result in growth of his character, as will not being able to rely on the Kyuubi. The Kyuubi will now be Naruto's ultimate last resort trump card, and his decisions on when to use or not use it could be interesting.

To those saying the Sharringan is now god-like: well yeah, it is. And it's always been presented as such in the past, just in not such a direct manner. I think it's kind of cool that Kakashi may be uber-powerful now with MS, the "good guys" certainly need it.

The bad
Sai and Yamato: Okay, these characters are pretty plain in my opinion and they haven't really done much yet. Sai's sudden magical turnaround flies in the face of other characters' long, realistic turnabouts that occurred elsewhere in the series. Yamato said something like, 'Now it really beings", and Oro/Kab/Sas just poofed away ... yeah this pretty weak on all levels I guess. I won't defend this.

Oro was just going to walk up to Sasori on that bridge and kill him off ... huh? The two were supposed to be relatively the same in strength, which leads me to believe Kabuto is some kind of god since its been hinted at in the past AND he has yet to lift a finger in any kind of real fight (along with just about every single character since the timeskip ... groan). But if that were the case how was Sasori so easily able to control Kabuto in the first place (if Kabuto is that great I doubt he'd let himself get taken over by a puppet Jutsu). And don't even get me started about what Kabuto said to Yamoto (who was pretending to be Sasori) about jutus performed on the body after it has been possessed ... all this Orochimaru/Sasori stuff that is repeatedly dangled in front of us is so titiliating ... that it makes me feel like I really AM being dragged through worthless filler material to stretch out the series.

Too many villians. I take that back, WAY TO MANY VILLIANS. Orochimaru, Kabuto lurking in the background, Sasuke being set up as the final battle, Danzou and Konoha civil war and to top it off a group of god-like super ninja that we know almost nothing about - name one instance where anyone from Akatsuki so much as lifts a finger in a fight? This can be too confusing, making the plot to interwoven and flimsy. Also it annoys me how titillating Kishi is with akatsuki, but I guess this keeps people reading.

Conclusion
This arc, while not terribly exciting, was essential because it ties up knots that were heavily foreshadowed AND closes the book on part 1. Kishimoto is now done "airing out the laundry" and now has free reign on providing more "good stuff": filling in holes in the plot, revealing things that have been foreshadowed, and hopefully some good battles. If by some chance Kishi totally loses it, and the next arc just introduces more lame-looking characters that don't do anything interspersed with some emo rants ... THEN we can agree that the magic is gone. Somehow I feel that the next arc is going to have a lot of action to make up for the last one though.

[Conekiller]

I was discussing this with some friends the other day. It was my stance that Sai and Yamato feel like they're shoehorned into the story. Especially when we know that the Akatsuki are after 8 other demon-holders. That's 8 more powerful characters for naruto to interact with, showcase their abilities and have interesting fights again. Instead, we're kept within Konoha (I loved the first part 2 arc showing us how the Sand village worked) with ugly, barely interesting characters (don't get me started on Kishi seemingly pandering to yaoi fangirls constantly).

While the aspect of a civil war in Konoha is interesting, I'd like to see a return to the more intelligent ninja action we saw during the Konoha invasion. I'm getting sick of fights won due to "who's *penis* is bigger". I dropped the manga during this arc due to precisely this. Take me back to the days of Shikamaru causing his opponent to slam her head into the wall!

[KuwabaraTheMan]

There are only 5 other jinchuuriki, not 8. We've already seen Gaara, and the Akatsuki have already taken two other bijuu aside from him(and thus killed those jinchuuriki).

I'm sure we'll meet at least a few(if not all) of the remaining 5 at some point, though.

[ShinjiFanGirl]

I'm glad ya'll get so happy from this.

[Funkmasta Zeph]

I'm glad ya'll get so happy from this.

:confused:

[Conekiller]

There are only 5 other jinchuuriki, not 8. We've already seen Gaara, and the Akatsuki have already taken two other bijuu aside from him(and thus killed those jinchuuriki).

I'm sure we'll meet at least a few(if not all) of the remaining 5 at some point, though.

Ok, I thought that they had mentioned that there was 7 (counting Gaara and Naruto) and seeing that the idol they're sacrificing the demons' powers to is represented with 2 giant hands , I assumed that ti was 10 in total.

[Funkmasta Zeph]

Ok, I thought that they had mentioned that there was 7 (counting Gaara and Naruto) and seeing that the idol they're sacrificing the demons' powers to is represented with 2 giant hands , I assumed that ti was 10 in total.

The idol hands are just a rip off from Berserk, I doubt it has any meaning in Naruto.

[KuwabaraTheMan]

The hands are because there were originally 10 members of Akatsuki. Hence why there is one empty finger.

They mention that its harder to extract the bijuu without Orochimaru around.

[silverwings]

The hands are because there were originally 10 members of Akatsuki. Hence why there is one empty finger.

They mention that its harder to extract the bijuu without Orochimaru around.

Yeah, it's the eyes that are important for the statue. 2 were open when Gaara got there and when Shukaku was extracted the third eye opened.

[Funkmasta Zeph]

The hands are because there were originally 10 members of Akatsuki. Hence why there is one empty finger.


Which is exactly the same as in Berserk. Except its one hand...