C&C - Ghost in the Shell 2nd Gig - "Endless-Gig" [5/26]

[Duke]

I know they're cyborgs and all, but at some point pulling an endless gig will tire them out. At least take a break or something.

[Tachikoma]

If anyone can tell me where to find the Tachikoma's song in this episode, I would GREATLY appreciate it. I'm guessing it's one of the many missing GITS songs, but I'm ever hopeful.

[Djm912]

Told y'all Gouda would get his.

[Wounded_Dragon]

Gouda got a little too caught in thinking his way out of things and forgot that sometimes, the simple solution is the one that works the best.

Who did the PM call anyway?

[Duke]

If the Tachikomas really are gone forever, 3rd Gig will need to have a REALLY awesome story to make me accept the Fuchikomas.

I mean, you'd figure that an organization like Section 9 would keep the Tachi's AI on backup or something.

Which reminds me, what happened to the Tachi's bodies? Somehow I don't think they teleported up to the satellite.

[Djm912]

I'm fairly certain it was the Americans. I'm just exactly sure who. It was either a few connections and favors she had to pull with the American Empire's military. Or, it was someone very, very high up in the chain of command. Either way, I think Kayabuki predicted that she wouldn't get any help.

[NickWhiz1]

Well, I am fairly satisfied with Gohda's death, although it was kind of quick :(

Fairly sad episode and a satisfactory ending to such a great series.

*hopes they make a 3rd GIG*

[MarineCorps]

Bye bye gohda. Didn't think they would kill him. Thought he would just be arrested or something. Fuchikomas ugly :mad: Great ending. Loved it.

[KefkaFloyd]

Ghoda's death reminded me of this.

http://homepage.mac.com/kefkafloyd/.Pictures/hitlersplode.gif

A cookie to guess the ref.

[v1cious]

adult swim doesn't let me use the Media Player controls any more. is this happening to anyone else?

what did the Tachikomas do exactly? i didn't see it.

[Juu-kuchi]

Ghoda's death reminded me of this.

http://homepage.mac.com/kefkafloyd/.Pictures/hitlersplode.gif

A cookie to guess the ref. Hm. It's either Bionic Commando or Castle Wolfenstein.

Good ending, but nooo on the Tachikomas. I hope some of their love will eventually become part of the Fuchikomas... At least Gohda got what he deserves in the best way possible.

[v1cious]

Hm. It's either Bionic Commando or Castle Wolfenstein.

Bionic Commando. right before the end.

[One Radical Dude]

Tachikomas > Fuchikomas

What's with the lone Tachikoma at the Tachikoma Days short?

What an interesting way (albeit bittersweet) to end the series. I'm glad Gouda got what he deserved.

[MeggieMay]

I wondered about the Tachikoma in the short as well. Also (possible spoiler for Solid State Society OVA) There are Tachikoma's (at least one, though I think there were two being used) in the GitS:SAC Solid State Society OVA advertising I've seen. So now I'm curious if they're all gone or if maybe a few of them were brought back off of a back-up copy or if they're just being used because the people doing the advertising like them (however, if they're using them in the advertising I'm not sure how much of a spoiler this is).

As to the Fuchikomas, I think I read that they are what actually appear in the manga for "Ghost in the Shell" and not the Tachikomas. However, I've not read the original manga so I'm not for certain on that.

As to the Tachikoma's song - that's not on any current OST. Hopefully Kanno will be doing the music for Solid State Society and that song, along with some others that haven't come out yet, will show up on it (or she puts another mini-OST out like "Be Human," which is where a number of the Tachikoma's songs can be found).

[Mog]

Yes, the Fuchikoma were in the manga. In fact, that entire cherry blossom end scene was taken from the very start of the first manga.

[One Radical Dude]

I know it's only one episode (and we'll most likely see them in the next series or movie), however, what I don't like about the Fuchikomas is their appearance and they don't seem as 'real' (or lively) as their AI predecessors.

[Freedom Fighter]

Wow... what a way for the Tachikomas to go out... even more saddening that their 'farewell' from Episode 25 of Season 1. But like then, though, they do manage to get the job done, and everything else turns out alright. Yeah, the Fuchikomas are lifeless compared to the Tachikomas... that's sad.

And dang... I heard Gohda was 'going out,' but I didn't think it would be that quick, painless, and... 'splody. Ouch.

And is it as we expected... Kuze and the Major were the two roommates in the hospital back when they were still human kids?

7.5 out of 10 for "Endless-Gig." Great finish to Season Two!

[Hyper Shadow X]

I'm gonna end up missing this one.

[One Radical Dude]

I'm gonna end up missing this one.

Why? Can't you record it?

[Katsumara]

Just what I needed when I woke up. Seeing someone's head get all 'sploded. >;D I drank coffee to that infact.

[peacebyanymeans]

This scene makes me want to kill myself. SOMEONE PRESS THE MUTE BUTTON!

[Anime411]

I can't believe she let Batou be so mean to Kuze. ROAR! But unless....nevermind. :P

Hey wait...is Kuze human somehow?

HAHA Ishikawa punched his head good. HAH!

*sniffle* Poor Kuze. Didn't deserve that.
Although I'm glad he made his 1000 cranes. Ya know that was the last one :) In the subbed version he said "I'll take my leave" but hey...it works both ways.

The Fuchikomas are funny looking. Yeah that was from the first scene in the manga. w00t. They need more personality....

Crap...Ghoda got nailed bigtime. YEAH!

DAMN RIGHT Ghouda died. Look at Togusa without his coat on :) WOOHOO Kick ass action mode!

[Djm912]

Ishikawa officially earned the "Bad Mother F*****" wallet.

Gohda....you are so dead.

[Timmay]

The hell, major used a parachute for the first time.

[The Myst]

There better be a third season.

My favorite parts were the part at the end with Gouda and the parts with Motoko/Kuze. Those were awesome. Oh, and Ishikawa punching that guy out.

[bishop083]

I love those little guys. They are just so damn perky. Singing while commiting a selfless act of suicide? However, I'm willing to admit that it brought a tear to my eye. These Fuchikomas are definitely no replacement, though. Can't believe they killed off Kuze. At least Gouda also bought it. I love this series. I don't think there has ever been an episode I didn't like. Nor did they have a character that wasn't well done. Only bad thing about the series finale is that it means [AS] might replace it with something else, and that saddens me more than the death of the Tachikomas.

[livingfruitvirus]

I love those little guys. They are just so damn perky. Singing while commiting a selfless act of suicide? However, I'm willing to admit that it brought a tear to my eye. These Fuchikomas are definitely no replacement, though. Can't believe they killed off Kuze. At least Gouda also bought it. I love this series. I don't think there has ever been an episode I didn't like. Nor did they have a character that wasn't well done. Only bad thing about the series finale is that it means [AS] might replace it with something else, and that saddens me more than the death of the Tachikomas.

Starting next Saturday at midnight, AS is rewinding GitS all the way back to episode 1.

[Rabi~en~Rose]

yeah I'm with everyone else Ishikawa was plain cool :) did Kuze actually die or did he upload his ghost or whatever to the net? I didn't mind about the Tachikomas dying because the real sad part was the Major futilely trying to save Kuze at the end :crying:

[PickHut]

Tachikomas went Zeon on our asses, Gouda got "Master D"'d by the Major, and someone got punched in the face by an arm cast. Nice episode:p .

[Youko Recca]

Great episode right here, seeing Gouda's death was damn near vomit-inducing given how it came out of nowhere. But that's probally the only reason.

[Master Moron]

Wow, that was one of the most violent scenes I've ever seen on basic cable. I almost feel like watching the streaming feed on Adult Swim fix just to see Gohda's head explode again.

By the way, did they cut out the opening or was there never an opening on this episode?

[Anime411]

Wow, that was one of the most violent scenes I've ever seen on basic cable. I almost feel like watching the streaming feed on Adult Swim fix just to see Gohda's head explode again.

By the way, did they cut out the opening or was there never an opening on this episode?

There was never an opening in this episode. They had a special thing at the end that took over it's place...alas it was only on DVD I believe.

[Game Freak 4]

Good-Bye, Tachikomas. I didn't really like them. Gouda's death was... unexpected. Even more violent then the Major having her head blown off.

[Paul_Cousins]

Guys if you think the Tachikomas are completely gone, keep in mind what they were discussing before hand about humans uploading their ghosts to the net.

Considering the Tachikomas violated on direct order from the Motoko in slamming the Tachikomas AI satillite into the nuclear missiles, who's to say that the Tachikomas' didn't upload their AIs to the net right before the collision.

Also, about Kuze, when was 'killed', he said he was 'going on ahead', meaning he was uploading his ghost to the net.

Now sense it seems this episode is a bridge to the mange timeline, this could mean that Kuze, when he uploaded to the net, could have merged with the puppet-master program cause the program to become selfaware. And this merger is is where the puppet-master's obsession with Motoko came from.

The logic I am using in this comes from the Bubblegum Crisis OVA/AD Police manga arguement about the Armstrong AI merging with Brain J. Mason's mental recordings to create the Largo AI.

Also, at beginning of the GitS 2 Manga, Motoko stated that she had merged completely with four other humans between GitS 1 Manga and GitS 2 Manga. Kuze might had been one of those four people.

[Sampo]

Guys if you think the Tachikomas are completely gone, keep in mind what they were discussing before hand about humans uploading their ghosts to the net.
...


Or you can cheat like me and freeze frame an image.

http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/Temp/tachibackup.jpg

Major shooting at Gouda's head make it go boom.

http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/Temp/gouda.jpg

Mmmmm... chunky bits of flesh.

I had a strange feeling watching Batou lug that huge cross around. Image. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/Temp/batoucross.jpg) Not sure why, nice scene though.

Also other stuff:


...
I mean, you'd figure that an organization like Section 9 would keep the Tachi's AI on backup or something.
...


I believe that is why they had their memories way up there on that satellite. It a safe place for their minds to expand and grow without fearing something would happen to them. Thus I doubt they considered backing up the little guys memories.


...
Which reminds me, what happened to the Tachi's bodies? Somehow I don't think they teleported up to the satellite.

During the scene with Ishikawa, one of the Tachikoma completely shut down itself as it was joining it's colleagues. So most likely Section 9 had a whole bunch of Tachis lying around with nothing in their memory banks.

I'm fairly certain it was the Americans. I'm just exactly sure who. It was either a few connections and favors she had to pull with the American Empire's military. Or, it was someone very, very high up in the chain of command. Either way, I think Kayabuki predicted that she wouldn't get any help.

I believe she contacted the SDF and mobilized those fighters. They fired off warning shots at the American EMPIRE (such a cool sounding title!) 's sub showing that they mean business.

Also, I am too lazy to actually verify this. I believe those American Empire agents (especially the one who killed Kuze) met Section 9 before. It was in a past episode. So that's why the Major bolted for the window, knowing that Kuze was in trouble.

What was the significance of Kuze taking a bite out of that apple? To me it seemed that he did the impossible/something out of the ordinary. He actually moved his mouth just for Motoko. Kinda like, Motoko learned how to fold paper cranes. So Kuze returned the favor by taking a bite out of that apple.

Great ending... Ah well, I can't believe 2nd Gig is finally over.

[Duke]

I noticed the Tachis uploading their data on the net during the TV run (missed it during Fix because my video kept skipping.
During the scene with Ishikawa, one of the Tachikoma completely shut down itself as it was joining it's colleagues. So most likely Section 9 had a whole bunch of Tachis lying around with nothing in their memory banks.
I wonder if the Fuchikomas are just backups while the android ladies search for the Tachis on the net and upload them back onto their units.

If not, there was no reason they couldn't create a basic AI persona to use in the Tachis, thus no real reason to bring in the Fuchikomas.

Also, I am too lazy to actually verify this. I believe those American Empire agents (especially the one who killed Kuze) met Section 9 before. It was in a past episode. So that's why the Major bolted for the window, knowing that Kuze was in trouble.
Were they also the ones who kidnapped that reporter lady Togusa was with mid-season, or am I just trying to draw a connection to that episode to make it fit, somehow?

[Paul_Cousins]

Or you can cheat like me and freeze frame an image.

http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/Temp/tachibackup.jpg

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! Yes, they did do it!! :zim:

Thanks Sampo!! :cool:

The words read 'Online' and in backwards (or forwards the way the Tachikomas) "Tachikoma's' All Memory"

So I guess the Tachikomas as 'alive' on the net and free of Section 9 and the 'Major'. ;)

[Jack Frenzy]

I had a strange feeling watching Batou lug that huge cross around. Image. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/Temp/batoucross.jpg) Not sure why, nice scene though.

What was the significance of Kuze taking a bite out of that apple? To me it seemed that he did the impossible/something out of the ordinary. He actually moved his mouth just for Motoko. Kinda like, Motoko learned how to fold paper cranes. So Kuze returned the favor by taking a bite out of that apple.
It's religious imagery.

The apple is straight out of Adam and Eve. Kuze and Motoko, two people who have never really opened themselves up emotionally to others, are both embracing their enemies; in effect, tasting forbidden fruit. Plus, as Gohda suggested earlier, Kuze is probably a virgin, meaning that Motoko is tempting him into his first sexual experience.

As for Batou with the cross, that's from Christ's march to his death. I think they were implying that Batou, who is crazy about the Major and has always taken his lumps for her, was about to suffer his greatest ordeal: seeing her in the arms of the enemy.

[pile0nades]

LOL @ me but...

I f'ing missed it! Will there be a repeat?

[Paul_Cousins]

As for Batou with the cross, that's from Christ's march to his death. I think they were implying that Batou, who is crazy about the Major and has always taken his lumps for her, was about to suffer his greatest ordeal: seeing her in the arms of the enemy.And here I thought Mr. Masamune (GitS creator) was just a fan of Nicholas D. Wolfwood (Trigun). ;)

[Kagetsu]

Or you can cheat like me and freeze frame an image.

http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/Temp/tachibackup.jpg

Major shooting at Gouda's head make it go boom.

http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/Temp/gouda.jpg

Mmmmm... chunky bits of flesh.

Missed the upload link but watching the blue electric strings (whatever?) connecting the Tache's to the memory space they gathered I figured they would do what Kuze had suggested.

Goda going out the same way as the defector in the very first show of season 1 sortof brings it around full circle, but loosing Kuze like that seems wrong. The tache's end was just beautiful.

Good end of a great show. I don't see any story room for a 3rd gig but I hope there is.

[Sampo]

I noticed the Tachis uploading their data on the net during the TV run (missed it during Fix because my video kept skipping.

I wonder if the Fuchikomas are just backups while the android ladies search for the Tachis on the net and upload them back onto their units.

If not, there was no reason they couldn't create a basic AI persona to use in the Tachis, thus no real reason to bring in the Fuchikomas.
...


Hmm, if this happened during Season One I would agree that they should have done this. But during Season two, the Major showed that the Tachikomas were a real part of Section 9. I doubt she want them functioning with a basic AI. It would dishonor their sacrifice, which they decided by themselves and disregarded a direct order from the Major to accomplish.



...
Were they also the ones who kidnapped that reporter lady Togusa was with mid-season, or am I just trying to draw a connection to that episode to make it fit, somehow?

D'oh, my error. I wasn't to clear about this. During the first season in the Episode Jungle Cruise the American EMPIRE (I will NEVER get tired typing that) sent over CIA agents to supposedly capture a rogue ranger (?) that had been skinning women alive. These two agents are the same guys that were going to recruit Gouda and killed Kuse. I went though the DVDs and found this.

http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/Temp/aedvdtwo.jpghttp://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/Temp/aeone.jpg

http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/Temp/aedvdone.jpghttp://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/Temp/aetwo.jpg

So when that guy said "Hi!" to Batou, this is why Batou barked back "You're that Prick?!!".

It's religious imagery.

The apple is straight out of Adam and Eve. Kuze and Motoko, two people who have never really opened themselves up emotionally to others, are both embracing their enemies; in effect, tasting forbidden fruit. Plus, as Gohda suggested earlier, Kuze is probably a virgin, meaning that Motoko is tempting him into his first sexual experience.

As for Batou with the cross, that's from Christ's march to his death. I think they were implying that Batou, who is crazy about the Major and has always taken his lumps for her, was about to suffer his greatest ordeal: seeing her in the arms of the enemy.

Thank you for clearing that up! Out of all the talkbacks I participate in, I really enjoy GITS threads... They are really informative and do help me understand and appreciate the episodes more.

[Space Chief]

Well, another great AS show comes to an end.

Why do the Tachikomas always have to die? Oh, well, at least they went out doing something cool, like dropping a friggin' satellite into the path of a nuclear missile.

That was the most awesome death ever. Goda thinks he's home free, then Boom! Headshot! He has a great "Oh, hell" expression if you freeze frame it. I'm pretty amazed AS left that in uncut. How far we've come...

Could someone explain Kuze's "Death" to me.

Sayonara, GitS, we'll miss you.

[Duke]

D'oh, my error. I wasn't to clear about this. During the first season in the Episode Jungle Cruise the American EMPIRE (I will NEVER get tired typing that) sent over CIA agents to supposedly capture a rogue ranger (?) that had been skinning women alive. These two agents are the same guys that were going to recruit Gouda and killed Kuse. I went though the DVDs and found this.
Yea, I remember all that. I reconized the guy instantly. I was talking about the guy who killed Kuze, though.

Could someone explain Kuze's "Death" to me.
That agent injected him with micromachines (probably modified versions of the micromachines in Season 1), which basically served as a lethal injection. As to if Kuze did anything before he died other than make the crane, who knows.

[Sampo]

...
That was the most awesome death ever. Goda thinks he's home free, then Boom! Headshot! He has a great "Oh, hell" expression if you freeze frame it. I'm pretty amazed AS left that in uncut. How far we've come...
...


This one?

http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/Temp/gouda2.jpg

Or this one? Hehe.

http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/Temp/gouda3.jpg

Gouda really thought this through. But, I guess he didn't expect the Prime Minster to give Section 9 THAT much power to keep him from leaving the country.

[BBunny]

A good ending, but not as great as the 1st Gig.

Hopefully GITS : Solid State Society will top them both.:anime:

[delariean]

Yea, I remember all that. I reconized the guy instantly. I was talking about the guy who killed Kuze, though.




That was the other agent in Jungle cruse....so the American Empire have gotten involved in this mess......interesting

[The Myst]

So are they gonna make a third season?

[Duke]

So are they gonna make a third season?
Nothing's been confirmed as of yet, but they are making a GitS: SAC movie called Solid State Society.

Though it'll probably serve as a bridge to 3rd Gig. I can't see Stand Alone Complex ending now when it's getting really popular.

BTW, is there any real connection to that lady getting kidnapped when Togusa found that nuclear warehouse in the middle of the season? I tried asking this earlier, but it got lost with me trying to explain which agent I'm talking about.

[Paul_Cousins]

Nothing's been confirmed as of yet, but they are making a GitS: SAC movie called Solid State Society.

Though it'll probably serve as a bridge to 3rd Gig. I can't see Stand Alone Complex ending now when it's getting really popular.

BTW, is there any real connection to that lady getting kidnapped when Togusa found that nuclear warehouse in the middle of the season? I tried asking this earlier, but it got lost with me trying to explain which agent I'm talking about.Also, who did the Prime Minister call in the last episode.

And I don't think this is last time we will see the cheerful Tachikomas in one form or another.

[Space Chief]

Yea, I remember all that. I reconized the guy instantly. I was talking about the guy who killed Kuze, though.


That agent injected him with micromachines (probably modified versions of the micromachines in Season 1), which basically served as a lethal injection. As to if Kuze did anything before he died other than make the crane, who knows.

Yes, but who did it, and why?

[Duke]

Yes, but who did it, and why?
Apparently, that agent guy from the American Empire was working with Gouda (though Section 9 didn't know about it until it was too late) and decided that Kuze had outlived his usefulness. Whether the agent was working under direct orders from the governement or if it was a secret op by somebody in Congress or something is unknown, and we probably won't find out until 3rd Gig.

[SpaceCowboy]

Was the song the Tachikomas were singing as they were flying into the nuclear missile the song, "Te no hira o taiyoo ni"(手のひらを太陽に)? My Japanese isn't as good to reconize the song while the episode aired.

Right before they impact with the missile, you can clearly hear the lyric "みんなみんな　（いきているんだ）"(minna minna, ikiteirunda).
Is this the same song they are singing? I think it's a popular traditional song with Japanese children, which the Tachikomas sometimes share characteristics of.:anime:

[The Myst]

Yeah, I was thinking 2nd Gig only ended recently in Japan and the possibility for a third season was still open, especially with it being really popular, both in Japan and America (Well, it's getting better ratings than most shows on ASA). I was just hoping something had been confirmed. I had heard about the movie but I doubt that will air on TV and I don't have the money for DVDs.

[Sampo]

Also, who did the Prime Minister call in the last episode.
...


I think she tried to contact the American Empire to call off the sub, but got no response.

[Hakuhatsu]

Jack,

An interesting way to consider Batou and "cross." I was thinking of the old saying that describes one as having "a cross to bear," or a heavy burden to carry. Which in this case, would be his feelings and devotion to Motoko. (Although, I think you've described it more accurately, if not elliquently than what I was thinking!)

I also think you and Sampo have it down as to the allegories of the apples. It was Eve who first ate of the apple and we see a close-up of Motoko's mouth about to take a bite (pssst, Sampo... cap please) before Batou breaks his way into their little "chamber." I can also see it as reciprocation on Kuze's part for what Motoko has done for him and the influence she had on his life. Although, besides being "forbidden fruit," I can also see it as being an allegory for their mutual love for one another and by taking a bite of it, Kuze was acknowledging the Major's feelings for him and showing that those feelings were reciprocated.


And speaking of "the great one..."

Sampo,

"Mmmmm... chunky bits of flesh" indeed. Great screen caps, Sampo. Now, if you could make that into an animated gif, it would be perfect (hint, hint ;) )

[BBunny]

I think she tried to contact the American Empire to call off the sub, but got no response. I thought she told them to launch a different missile.
The sub crew said the missle wasn't nuclear after it was hit by the satellites.

[Wounded_Dragon]

I thought she told them to launch a different missile.
The sub crew said the missle wasn't nuclear after it was hit by the satellites.

I thought they said the detonation wasn't nuclear, not that the missile wasn't nuclear.

[AlienOmega]

I thought they said the detonation wasn't nuclear, not that the missile wasn't nuclear.Yeah, that was it. If wasn't hit by the satellite it would've gone nuclear.

[Sampo]

...
I also think you and Sampo have it down as to the allegories of the apples. It was Eve who first ate of the apple and we see a close-up of Motoko's mouth about to take a bite (pssst, Sampo... cap please) before Batou breaks his way into their little "chamber." I can also see it as reciprocation on Kuze's part for what Motoko has done for him and the influence she had on his life. Although, besides being "forbidden fruit," I can also see it as being an allegory for their mutual love for one another and by taking a bite of it, Kuze was acknowledging the Major's feelings for him and showing that those feelings were reciprocated.
...


Sure, here you go. Image. (http://home.hawaii.rr.com/wizardgrey/images/Temp/apple.jpg)



...
Sampo,

"Mmmmm... chunky bits of flesh" indeed. Great screen caps, Sampo. Now, if you could make that into an animated gif, it would be perfect (hint, hint ;) )

Sorry, I'm too damn lazy to make an animated gif out of that. :sweat:

Later.

[Paul_Cousins]

I think she tried to contact the American Empire to call off the sub, but got no response.No, I don't think so, if that was the case Aramaki would not have been so suspicious about the phone call.

[Duke]

Perhaps China, then? They've been the only other country semi-focused on in this series other than America and Japan, and Kayabuki has been criticized by the other cabinet members as being too China-friendly.

[Vallen Valiant]

Perhaps China, then? They've been the only other country semi-focused on in this series other than America and Japan, and Kayabuki has been criticized by the other cabinet members as being too China-friendly.
Doubt that. It's about as likely as a British leader asking the French for help. (In both the sense of asking for help, and receiving help. Seriously? China Helping Japan? Not without being paid serious money.)

[Spastic Minnow]

Also, who did the Prime Minister call in the last episode.


...I thought she just ordered her planes out there to give them the message "We don't want you here." The sub was running silent so they couldn't reach them any other way.

The implication was that her detractors thought she was dependant on outside help but instead she called Japan's own military, which was all that they needed.

I don't see why anyone should be surprised by the Tachicomas and Kuze "dying." These series are prequels. You already know who makes it out in the end. If there is a third series and the Tachicomas do come back they'll have to be done away with again by the end of that series. Also, remembering that these are prequels, the talk about Kuze, the refugees and Tachis uploading themselves into the net can be seen as a precursor to what happens in the movie, the Major merging with a collective entity/ ghost.


Overall with the series, I really liked the interpersonal characterizations of everyone but I never gave a crap about the political manuevering plot. I never really understood what Gouda was doing and never cared. I never really got the point of the Individual Eleven. Heck, I never even figured out where the refugees were refugees from. I guess it was all there, explained away in single lines of boring dialogue that passed me by like a C-Span congressional debate.

[jcl100]

These series are prequels.

Ghost in the Shell movie: 2029 A.D.

S.A.C.: 2030 A.D.

2nd GIG: 2031 A.D.

Officially Stand Alone Complex is an alternate universe. That could probably be retconned if Production I.G. decides to make it one big story, but for now the movie and tv series are seperate continuities.

[The Myst]

Ghost in the Shell movie: 2029 A.D.

S.A.C.: 2030 A.D.

2nd GIG: 2031 A.D.

Officially Stand Alone Complex is an alternate universe. That could probably be retconned if Production I.G. decides to make it one big story, but for now the movie and tv series are seperate continuities.
I don't believe in that as I've seen nothing that directly contradicts the two being in the same universe.

[jcl100]

You mean besides the fact that S.A.C. takes place one year after the movie did?

[BBunny]

Ghost in the Shell movie: 2029 A.D.

S.A.C.: 2030 A.D.

2nd GIG: 2031 A.D.

Officially Stand Alone Complex is an alternate universe. That could probably be retconned if Production I.G. decides to make it one big story, but for now the movie and tv series are seperate continuities. 2nd Gig : 2032 A.D.

3rd Gig - Solid State Society : 2034 A.D.

[jcl100]

Is it 2032 for 2nd GIG? My bad. I could've sworn the Solid State Society teaser trailer stated it was 2031.

[Hyper Shadow X]

Why? Can't you record it?

I could have if my directv wasn't canceled.

[BBunny]

Is it 2032 for 2nd GIG? My bad. I could've sworn the Solid State Society teaser trailer stated it was 2031. I didn't watch the teaser but most sites say 2032 for 2nd Gig, making each Gig 2 years apart.

[The Fullmetal]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/Starwind_Amada/Untitled-1.gif

I couldn't resist. :D:D:D

[Spike Mcdougal]

Can anyone tell me the name of the song that played at the end through the credits?

[The Fullmetal]

Yeah, I want to know the title, too.

[Ultra8]

R.I.P. Tachikomas, Kuze (well for now anyway).

An okay ending, not as good as SAC's was but still good. Wasn't expecting Gouda going down like that, but he's had it coming for a while or the return of those CIA guys from way back in S1(it's hard to forget a creepy smile like there's). Since they were conspiring with Gouda and killed Kuze, I doubt they're going to be able to go home anytime soon.

A

[Duke]

I didn't watch the teaser but most sites say 2032 for 2nd Gig, making each Gig 2 years apart.
I thought 2nd Gig started a few months after the first season, since the first episode had Section 9 not fully reinstated yet?

I mean, I guess the final episode could've been in 2032, but I highly doubt it started in 2032.

[Sampo]

Can anyone tell me the name of the song that played at the end through the credits?

Based on the credits they aired.

Christmas in the Silent Forest
-Words: Shanti Snyder
-Music: Yoko Kanno
-Vocal: Ilaria Grazziand

I would normally provide a screen cap of the above. But they sped up the credits so much, they are hard to read. :sweat:

[SirLemming]

http://goudaheadexplodie.ytmnd.com/
And here I thought Mr. Masamune (GitS creator) was just a fan of Nicholas D. Wolfwood (Trigun). ;) Dang, you beat me to it. (I guess that's what I get for having it taped and watching it a few days later.) But at the time I was like, "WOLFWOOD is saving them? That's unexpected!!"

[KaidoYuji8Adam]

I LOVED 2nd Gig vastly over the first season. I still enjoyed the first season, but this season really fleshed out the characters. I cannot wait for SSS to come out.
Also, the creators said that Motoko ended the season in a depressed and solemn mood, and this would be carried over.
If there is a 3rd Gig..I hope for more characterization, especially of section 9, and the MAJOR. Her story is great.

A

PS: I always thought the ending between the major and kuze could have been done better.. But now that I figured out the meaning behind the apples and cross, I like it better

[beren]

Please tell me about the Apples and the Cross.

[The Myst]

You mean besides the fact that S.A.C. takes place one year after the movie did?

How does a year difference make them be in different continuities?

[Wounded_Dragon]

How does a year difference make them be in different continuities?

Err..the events of the movie aren't exactly compatible with SAC...


Edit: Whee, 1500

[jcl100]

The timelines simply don't match up.

In the movie the Puppetmaster incident occured in 2029 A.D. and the ending set Major Kusanagi down a path away from Section 9. This point is especially driven home in GitS 2: Innocence.

S.A.C. on the other hand begins in 2030 A.D. The Major is still very much part of Section 9 and there is no mention of the Puppetmaster incident whatsoever. Because it never happened.

[The Myst]

I guess but a lot can change over time.

(I just like the idea of them being in continuity together better.)

[Duke]

Now, I haven't seen the first movie in a while, and still haven't seen GitS 2, but aren't the movie characters a lot more solemn, especially Batou, Togusa, and the Tachis, compared with their more-lively SAC counterparts?

[Wounded_Dragon]

Now, I haven't seen the first movie in a while, and still haven't seen GitS 2, but aren't the movie characters a lot more solemn, especially Batou, Togusa, and the Tachis, compared with their more-lively SAC counterparts?

Solemn, depressing, take your pick.

[MeggieMay]

Based on the credits they aired.

Christmas in the Silent Forest
-Words: Shanti Snyder
-Music: Yoko Kanno
-Vocal: Ilaria Grazziand

I would normally provide a screen cap of the above. But they sped up the credits so much, they are hard to read. :sweat:
It's on OST 3 and was 2nd Gig's third intro (you can find that intro at http://asfdotcom.net/ ).

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Solemn, depressing, take your pick.

How about dry, long winded, and boring?

[CaptainRed]

I liked Second Gig much better than the first season. It seemed more directed, and more in sync with its medium (not relying oon talkiness so much).

Unless they do bring back the Tachikomas, though, I don't think they can do another season -- they have to kill the Tachikomas off at the end of each one, and that cannot be done if they aren't around. Still, the Tachikomas got good deaths both times, which is actually rather remarkable. So I'm not complaining, just friendly ribbing the show.

*honk*

[Paul_Cousins]

I liked Second Gig much better than the first season. It seemed more directed, and more in sync with its medium (not relying oon talkiness so much).

Unless they do bring back the Tachikomas, though, I don't think they can do another season -- they have to kill the Tachikomas off at the end of each one, and that cannot be done if they aren't around. Still, the Tachikomas got good deaths both times, which is actually rather remarkable. So I'm not complaining, just friendly ribbing the show.

*honk*Interest when you think about it. The Tachikomas AI's are not dead, they are somewhere on the web. So is Kuze.

And Gouda could have faked his death by using a remote cyberbody like Motoko did at the end of Season 1 of GitS. Gouda studied Section 8 throughly before he commited his actions in 2gig, he would know Motoko pulled that stunt in faking her own death.

And Gouda has remote controled bodies before, from the Individual 11 to that dead Russia arms seller. Faking his death in that manner is not out of character for him.

[Vallen Valiant]

Interest when you think about it. The Tachikomas AI's are not dead, they are somewhere on the web. So is Kuze.

And Gouda could have faked his death by using a remote cyberbody like Motoko did at the end of Season 1 of GitS. Gouda studied Section 8 throughly before he commited his actions in 2gig, he would know Motoko pulled that stunt in faking her own death.

And Gouda has remote controled bodies before, from the Individual 11 to that dead Russia arms seller. Faking his death in that manner is not out of character for him.

The problem is, Gouda is not a cyborg.

Gouda can't fake his death unless he cloned a body, which, though within the means of this universe, won't explain why a clone will be willing to have his brain blown up.

Motoko could fake her own death if her copy had its head destroyed, as technically only her brain could verify her identity. But since advanced cyberbrain analysis exists, this is far more difficult than it seems. (They tried that near the end of the first season, but that only fooled the government for a short period. The only reason Motoko got away with her headshot in the first season was because Aramaki helped closing the case without further investigations.

[Paul_Cousins]

The problem is, Gouda is not a cyborg.Yes, he is a cyborg. He has a cyber brain and his face was sculpted in a similar manner as Kuze's, only with more facial movement.

Now to said to gross by Motoko's head looked for 'fleshier" when it was destroyed at the end S1 Ep 25 than Gouda's head in S2 Ep 26.

[SirLemming]

http://goudaualelelele.ytmnd.com

I couldn't resist.

[Paul_Cousins]

http://goudaualelelele.ytmnd.com

I couldn't resist.From a mental standpoint, you are very... unwell to say the least.

You need to seek professional help immidiately.

[Vallen Valiant]

Yes, he is a cyborg. He has a cyber brain and his face was sculpted in a similar manner as Kuze's, only with more facial movement.

Now to said to gross by Motoko's head looked for 'fleshier" when it was destroyed at the end S1 Ep 25 than Gouda's head in S2 Ep 26.

Where did you get THAT from?

It was clearly described early on that Gouda got his face from an accident, but he refused to have it surgically corrected because it's beneficial to his work to be memorable. (Gouda used to be plain in appearance, and he hated it)

Where did you get the information that he is a cyborg? Everyone has implants, but Gouda has no more implants that Tougasa did.

You can fake a prosthetic body, but you can't fake a flesh body. (not for long, anyway)

[Paul_Cousins]

Where did you get THAT from?It was mentioned in that Gouda was injured in the war and needed a postitic body, and he customize the face to suit his nature.

Then their is that whole conversation Gouda had with Batou about virgins and cyborg bodies, I think besides mentioned he was virgin, he also stated he wasn't a hypocrite, which meant that he also hinted he had a cyborg body.

Also, it should be noted in episode one of 2ndgig that one of the original Individual 11 had a cyberbrain but a completely organic body.