Is Ideon one of the most violent anime ever?

[Chris Wood]

I don't know much about this show except that it's held in high regard and supposedly contains some religious symbolism. This clip on Youtube surprised me though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbvU7zXZ0jk

Very vague spoilers to follow:

I've never so many (apparently important) characters get killed so brutally. I mean - riddled with holes, blown to pieces, suffocated in space, etc. Perhaps worst of all are a woman repeatedly shot in the face and a kid whose head is blown clean off.

I didn't know these older shows got so hardcore. Definitely going to have to watch Ideon sometime. It hasn't been released in the U.S. yet has it?

[Nobuyuki sama]

It hasn't been released in the U.S. yet has it?
Nope.

Isn't this the show that spawned "Kill-Em-All" Tomino? :)

[Ryoutarou]

Isn't this the show that spawned "Kill-Em-All" Tomino? :)Basically...and for very good reason.

Yeah, even though there are anime that tend to be more graphic, I'd still say this is one of the most violent ever made. The ending was just...one of those "You never want to feel joy again" type of things.

[Conan-san]

I suppose it's an side-effect of having the most dangerously powerful Giant Robot of all time.

Though the two movies are what inspired Evangelion's "End of eva" ending.

[Chris Wood]

Weird that with the constant stream of Gundam releases we haven't gotten Ideon yet.

[Chrono1995]

I've been told that I should see this series by any means possible, but this title and the first 30 seconds of that video did a nice job of scarring me.

So...should I see it or not?

[Karl Olson]

Weird that with the constant stream of Gundam releases we haven't gotten Ideon yet.

It's probably because there is so much Gundam to get to that the other Tomino stuff falls by the wayside. It's a work with the established franchises until they're done first, then get into other stuff business plan.

[Chris Wood]

It's probably because there is so much Gundam to get to that the other Tomino stuff falls by the wayside. It's a work with the established franchises until they're done first, then get into other stuff business plan.

Since Bandai will be releasing Gundam until the end of time, maybe a little guy like Central Park should slip in and release Ideon.

[Jon T]

Wow. Most of the deaths didn't strike me as too out of place considering other on-screen deaths in some 80s anime, but I would think that the kid having his whole head instantly vaporized must have been one of the most extreme deaths shown on Japanese TV.

Didn't Tomino at one time suffer from manic depression or something? As a general guess I would have thought it may have been during the making of this series. Even the original Mobile Suit Gundam made just before Ideon is rife with nihilism, if not quite as many deaths.

[Furu]

Wow. Most of the deaths didn't strike me as too out of place considering other on-screen deaths in some 80s anime, but I would think that the kid having his whole head instantly vaporized must have been one of the most extreme deaths shown on Japanese TV.

Didn't Tomino at one time suffer from manic depression or something? As a general guess I would have thought it may have been during the making of this series. Even the original Mobile Suit Gundam made just before Ideon is rife with nihilism, if not quite as many deaths.
Actually, no. That was during V Gundam, where the deaths were just as common but far, far more stupid, like Tomino was almost parodying himself.

That's clearly not the same Tomino we have nowadays, though, as proven by Turn A, Gainer, Brain Powerd, etc.

[Jon T]

Actually, no. That was during V Gundam, where the deaths were just as common but far, far more stupid, like Tomino was almost parodying himself.

Thanks for the clarification. Still, I can't help but wonder about what his state of mind was like when he did Ideon to create so many deaths for just one series.

[HellCat]

If you think about it, maybe it's tied to Tomino's stance on directing. He seems to prefer doing self contained works and has been quoted as saying more than once that in part he's upset with the juggernaut Gundam has become. He also did a lecture recently at a Japanese university where he said that fans shouldn't dwell on one story and instead focus their energies on creating their own new and exciting ideas. With that kind of mentality, killing off a huge chunk of the cast is the easiest way to not be able to go and continue something.

[Lord Dalek]

Isn't this the show that spawned "Kill-Em-All" Tomino? :)No that would be Zambot-3. Ideon simply continued the trend.

It also inspired Eva.

[Conan-san]

Wow. Most of the deaths didn't strike me as too out of place considering other on-screen deaths in some 80s anime, but I would think that the kid having his whole head instantly vaporized must have been one of the most extreme deaths shown on Japanese TV. I'm pritty damn sure that was in one of the movies. Pritty Sure.

[GWOtaku]

Zeta Gundam's ending suddenly seems a lot more tame. I'm glad his ruthlessness didn't really touch Char's Counterattack--yeah, people got killed off, but under different conditions Tomino probably would have had Char's asteroid smashing into the Earth...

I have to say, I think I much prefer the Tomino of today.

[Chrono1995]

Okay, so I've watched the first episode and the body count is already around thirty-five. Since about twenty of those dead had speaking roles, that's absolutely insane.

Otherwise, I'm pretty impressed so far.

[Tenku]

I just watched the clip and uh...wow. I was fine up until the kid's head got blown clean off. That is pretty violent.

35 on the first ep? Diz -yamn.

[Nin-Nin69]

I loved the drama put into the deaths, but this isn't the most violent anime. It's not even close. Although that kid who got his head blown off was a shock value.

[Kou Kinkaide]

Know what's the most disturbing thing about that?

It was a movie.

To be Invoked... and thanks to that.. Ideon gained the nickname is "The Ultimate Mecha Ever"

1-He Makes Black holes like if they were nothing.
2-He chops planets.
3-He outspams Kira,Trowa,Athrun in every sense of the word.
4-He destroys galaxies with his Ideon Gun?
5-He explodes taking everybody down, even those that aren't even involved with him XD

[rubberchicken]

I remember reading about a semi-but-not-really-official Gundam doujin that was a spinoff of Ideon...

In UC 0091 or so Amuro gets sent to find Judau Ashita and recruit him to help shut down a Zeon operation in the asteroid belt. Turns out that the Zeon remnants have actually found Ideon buried out there somewhere, and are planning to use Mineva Zabi to awaken it. Things take a turn for the more weird when it's revealed that UC Gundam takes place in the new universe created when the old one was destroyed at the end of Be Invoked, and that Judau is actually the spiritual reincarnation of Ideon's Cosmo, and... feh.

EDIT: The video's great in tone and pacing right up until the last minute, when it suddenly cuts off. Grrr...

My cultural barbarism is showing... is the music from Ideon, or is it something else that they dubbed over the video?

Edit mark II: Wow, if I'd read the Youtube comments that question would have been answered for me.

[HellCat]

I remember reading about a semi-but-not-really-official Gundam doujin that was a spinoff of Ideon...

In UC 0091 or so Amuro gets sent to find Judau Ashita and recruit him to help shut down a Zeon operation in the asteroid belt. Turns out that the Zeon remnants have actually found Ideon buried out there somewhere, and are planning to use Mineva Zabi to awaken it. Things take a turn for the more weird when it's revealed that UC Gundam takes place in the new universe created when the old one was destroyed at the end of Be Invoked, and that Judau is actually the spiritual reincarnation of Ideon's Cosmo, and... feh.

EDIT: The video's great in tone and pacing right up until the last minute, when it suddenly cuts off. Grrr...

My cultural barbarism is showing... is the music from Ideon, or is it something else that they dubbed over the video?

Edit mark II: Wow, if I'd read the Youtube comments that question would have been answered for me.

http://www.mahq.net/Mecha/gundam/gigantis/index.htm ?

[rubberchicken]

Heh. Yeah, I think that's the one.

[Neo-Era]

It's not a doujin. What I've seen of it is kind of in-jokey. At one point, you see what looks like an SD RX-78 Gundam flying in space. Then the head opens, Judau gets out of the cockpit and you see its just an ordinary petit mobile suit (http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/zz/petitems.htm) with the outside made-up to look that way ("Decopuchi", decoration petit mobile suits). As he runs out of the hangar, there's a Gelgoog version and a Knight Gundam one.

[rubberchicken]

I originally read about it on the Ideon Wikipedia article. Here's the relevant quote:

The Ideon also appears in a non-canon crossover manga with Gundam, Mobile Suit Vs. Giant God: Gigantis' Counterattack, with story and artwork by Yuichi Hasegawa. In this story, set in Universal Century (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Century) 0090, the Federation sends Amuro Ray (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amuro_Ray) to recruit Judau Ashta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judau_Ashta) to help deal with a group of Zeon remnants. While this seems routine, the Zeons have uncovered what they call the "Giant God", namely the Ideon (which is never actually called Gigantis within the story). While investigating, Judau learns that the Zeons are planning on using Minerva Lao Zabi's Newtype (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newtype) powers to awaken the Giant God and get their revenge. Unfortunately, it goes out of control and begins attacking anything in sight. As Judau infiltrates the Giant God, Amuro (along with Char Aznable (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Char_Aznable)) fight to distract it. As he nears Minerva, the spirit of Karala and her baby appear, explaining that Ideon remade the universe because it hoped that a new type of human - namely, Newtypes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newtype) - would be the universe's salvation from war. But since this turned out not to be the case, the Giant God was sent to remake the universe again. Judau also learns that he is the reincarnation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reincarnation) of Ideon protagonist Cosmo Yuki, and violently opposes this plan. With Amuro's help, he manages to free Minerva and shut Giant God/Ideon down before it can do any more harm.
Interestingly enough, Yoshiyuki Tomino (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoshiyuki_Tomino)'s name comes up a couple of times in the story, as Amuro explains the myth of Giant God (the events of the Ideon series) to Judau, suggesting that he exists in the Gundam world much the same way Marvel Comics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_Comics) and its more prominent staff members such as Stan Lee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stan_Lee) exist within their own world.

[Funkmasta Zeph]

That wasn't so bad....
I finally finished off the Berserk Anime last night....

Getting cleanly shot?
Or getting eaten by demons?
Throw some rape in the mix....
And the fact that this armies boss is the one who brought this on them..

Much worse.
Entire universe destroyed or not.

[Chrono1995]

That wasn't so bad....
I finally finished off the Berserk Anime last night....

Getting cleanly shot?
Or getting eaten by demons?
Throw some rape in the mix....
And the fact that this armies boss is the one who brought this on them..

Much worse.
Entire universe destroyed or not.

HOLY SPOILERS, BATMAN! WE GOTTA PUT THOSE OUT QUICK!

[Timmay]

Ok.. now I've got to watch this..

[Funkmasta Zeph]

HOLY SPOILERS, BATMAN! WE GOTTA PUT THOSE OUT QUICK!

But isn't the very premise of this thread a spoiler.:sad:
The fate of Ideon's cast?

[Nobuyuki sama]

But isn't the very premise of this thread a spoiler.:sad:
The fate of Ideon's cast?
I think he's referring to the Berserk spoilers. ;)

[Carlos]

Okay, so I've watched the first episode and the body count is already around thirty-five. Since about twenty of those dead had speaking roles, that's absolutely insane.

Otherwise, I'm pretty impressed so far.

Yeah, I have to agree with this. I have seen a couple of episodes, and Tomino isn't afraid to kill off people who are semi-important.

Looking at the video, you can tell it's from the movie. It's truely an Adult Swim show.:eek:

[Timmay]

I love the wiki on this series. "With a death toll comprising the entire population of the universe, is still considered by many to feature the bloodiest ending of any anime, and perhaps even the bloodiest in film history."

You gotta love a robot that only gets more powerful the more you hit it. Until, of course, it destroys the entire universe.

[RiverWalker]

I wonder what it means that watching that didn't even phase me.

one way or another I didn't find that that shocking.

watched Gantz recently.. not mecha stuff, and alot more recent, but several octaves more violent and grotesque.

I mean... it doesn't have muich more to it BUT one gratuitious violence or preversion after another, but hey, why not.

[Vallen Valiant]

I wonder what it means that watching that didn't even phase me.

one way or another I didn't find that that shocking.

watched Gantz recently.. not mecha stuff, and alot more recent, but several octaves more violent and grotesque.

I mean... it doesn't have muich more to it BUT one gratuitious violence or preversion after another, but hey, why not.

It's not that the scenes are violent, but that the people being killed off are essentially named characters who the audience have emotional investments in. They aren't grunts or red-shirts.

[Rasputin]

It's not that the scenes are violent, but that the people being killed off are essentially named characters who the audience have emotional investments in. They aren't grunts or red-shirts.

And that, friends, is how to kill someone off. :D

[Funkmasta Zeph]

It's not that the scenes are violent, but that the people being killed off are essentially named characters who the audience have emotional investments in. They aren't grunts or red-shirts.

And thats what I'm saying..
Berserk....

[Conan-san]

It amuses me to no end that you can access the "Be invoked" ending if you do a couple of things in SRW@3.

Even more so when everyone starts asking for the point when it's clear the Ideon's going to go boom.
Seriouly, even Guy whines?

Also, the fact that the end of eva is one of the sinarios in SRW@3 meens two of the most poniant endings in anime histroy exist on one DVD...seriouly, that's some serious Second Coming your dealing with there.

[Jon T]

And thats what I'm saying..
Berserk....

I think what makes Ideon stand out compared to Berserk or other latter-day violent late-night TV anime, is that Ideon was undoubtedly more of a mainstream series, with an according timeslot.

[Funkmasta Zeph]

I think what makes Ideon stand out compared to Berserk or other latter-day violent late-night TV anime, is that Ideon was undoubtedly more of a mainstream series, with an according timeslot.

The Berserk manga is pretty damned popular...
Unless you mean...mainstream....as in more general audiences.
Then true dat.

[Space Cadet]

I think what makes Ideon stand out compared to Berserk or other latter-day violent late-night TV anime, is that Ideon was undoubtedly more of a mainstream series, with an according timeslot.

Ideon was a mainstream series in Japan? I thought the show had to prematurely end because of low ratings. I think that's why they had to make the movies.

[Jon T]

Ideon was a mainstream series in Japan? I thought the show had to prematurely end because of low ratings. I think that's why they had to make the movies.

Well, I'm not talking mainstream being related to popularity in any way, but mainstream as in the audience it was made in mind for. Whereas latter-day TV anime with late-night time slots or being restricted only to cable can be tailored for specific demographic groups, older mecha shows like Ideon would have been seen by 'family' audiences, for want of a better word.

While I think first and foremost, the show would be aimed at older boys, that wouldn't necessarily have precluded anyone else from watching it. A lot of anime in the late 1970s/1980s was made to cater for a more varied audience in contrast to more recent polarized anime that is more prevalent these days.

So while there undoubtedly is TV anime out there with more violent imagery, I think the many deaths in Ideon would have reached more of a wider general audience.