Nightcrawler Without Religion?

[Stu]

Hey,

Since the roster has yet to be announced for the upcoming Wolverine And The X-Men show, I began thinking about who could be used, and how they could portrayed in the show.

As some of you are probably aware, I can't stand the Nightcrawler used in X-Men: Evolution, but absoloutly love the one used in X-Men: The Animated Series. A big part of this is that my favourite characterisation of Nightcrawler is his religious side, which was a strict no no on Kids WB. What about you? If Nightcrawler was used in the new cartoon, should they show his religious side and if they can't, should they bother using him at all?


http://marvel.toonzone.net/xmen/bios/heroes/nightcrawler/03.jpg
Image Courtesy of Marvel Animation Age (http://marvel.toonzone.net)

[Wonderwall]

I think Nightcrawler should have the religious side to him, but not be to heavu handed with it. You're not the only guy who hated everything about him in X Men Evo but I love him in everything else.

[ifthismeansevos]

I'd love to see him with his religious side even if I don't have any troubles with the Evo version.

[Ed Liu]

Howdy,

The Nightcrawler I'm most accustomed to was the one in the late 80's, where his Christian faith was not really a defining trait. His swashbuckling good nature at his own freakish condition, often to cover his own insecurities about it, was always more of what defined Nightcrawler for me. That and his extremely unlikely friendship with Wolverine, and the way the two of them ended up arguing out the finer points of things that they agreed on fundamentally. As a confused teenager, I always envisioned that as something that Men did.

I don't think the Christian angle is critical for Nightcrawler to be successful, since he seems to have gotten along just fine for years without it, but I think there's plenty of fertile ground there for stories if it is used. I thought they did a wonderful job with it in X2, for instance.

-- Ed/Ace

[AdamYJ]

Personally, my favorite version of Nightcrawler is the classic interpretation of him as a light-hearted, sensitive and optimistic individual with an old-style swashbuckling spirit. The religion thing is in there, but it's not too heavy handed. One of the biggest mistakes in recent years regarding the character is the overplaying of his religious side. They did it in the Fox cartoon. They did it in the movie. They even did it in the comics circa 2000. It used to be just an aspect of him, one that wasn't particularly major either. Occasionally, he'd say a little prayer in German or something. Or, when the X-Men fought Dracula (yes, they actually did) and Kurt was actually capable of fending him off with a cross because he was a believer. Too often, the focus on his faith made him come across as somber. Now, I liked the X-Men: Evolution version. He was fun and probably as close to the classic, "lighthearted adventurer" version they could get with him as a teenager. I also understand how the Fox X-Men or X2 versions could be popular. However, nothing beats the classic Chris Claremont-written version from the comics.

[Hypestyle]

... that would certainly be interesting if they did show the spiritual side of Nightcrawler-- if he's even involved in this new show.. but if they're going to use hsi faith to make him the butt of jokes, then they might as well ignore it..

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Outside of the crappy 90s cartoon, Nightcrawler had never been an overly-religious character. He's religious yes, but its not a defining trait.

The important thing with his character is for him to be the fun loving and optimistic guy, and try to get swashbuckling in there, too.


If you want to have him be religious, go ahead, but don't make it screw up his character like it did in TAS and X2.

[Nightwing]

Outside of the crappy 90s cartoon, Nightcrawler had never been an overly-religious character. He's religious yes, but its not a defining trait.

The important thing with his character is for him to be the fun loving and optimistic guy, and try to get swashbuckling in there, too.


If you want to have him be religious, go ahead, but don't make it screw up his character like it did in TAS and X2.

I say throw it in there like X-MenTAS did except a notch or two lighter. Although, as far as religion in general is concerned with Kurt, I don't think it was all that bad. He barely did or said anything in regard to his religion. What he indirectly did, however, was befriend Wolverine and ACTUALLY make Mr. Grumpy unforgiving Logan convince himself to stop for a little while in a church for some reflecting and praying.

So long as it's about the characters and not the religion I'm cool.

In addition, I'd also like to hear more about the Non X-MenTAS Nightcrawler that all of you are familiar with. I keep hearing the word swashbuckling in his description and it is as strange and frightening as it is intriguing. lol.

[Ed Liu]

Howdy,


IIn addition, I'd also like to hear more about the Non X-MenTAS Nightcrawler that all of you are familiar with. I keep hearing the word swashbuckling in his description and it is as strange and frightening as it is intriguing. lol.

Lots of good stuff at this Nightcrawler site (http://www.blue-elf.com/nightfactoidshistory.html), including the following:


Len Wein, the writer of Nightcrawler's first appearance"Giant Size X-men #1", a milestone in comic history, percieved him as heroic, but also dark and bitter over his mistreatment by the human race and Cockrum drew him an ugly, angry face to go with it. This logical but too-obvious attitude was thrown out of the window soon by his successor Chris Claremont, who thought it would be more interesting to give the character a personality that didn't match his looks. Nightcrawler soon became the moral center of the X-men, a cheerful swashbuckler with a strong religious streak, a caring prankster and an unlikely ladiesman. And this way he has remained since, much to the delight of the X-fans

Supposedly, Kurt was given an image inducer to hide his appearance when he went out in public, and he used it to look like Errol Flynn, his favorite swashbuckling movie hero (see here (http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/spotlight/showquestion.asp?faq=10&fldAuto=70&page=2), and keep going for more Nightcrawler than is probably healthy).

The issue that I remember most vividly as far as the swashbuckling aspect goes is probably Uncanny X-Men #204 (http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/issues/showquestion.asp?fldAuto=722) (thank you, UXM.net!), where Kurt gets to prance around through a variety of worlds saving the damsel in distress.

-- Ed

[AdamYJ]

In addition, I'd also like to hear more about the Non X-MenTAS Nightcrawler that all of you are familiar with. I keep hearing the word swashbuckling in his description and it is as strange and frightening as it is intriguing. lol.

What's so strange and frightening about it?

The thing people tend to forget is that the man is a circus performer. Not a "freak" either, who was kept in a cage or something dismal like that. An acrobat who made use of the trapeze and high wire and all that. It's part of who he is and it's in his blood. He likes to show off and do spectacular feats and charm the crowd. He's also a formidable swordsman from training he started in the circus. Occasionally, he's been known to fence with three foils. One in each hand and one gripped by his tail. Also, he's a big fan of old '30s and '40s romantic adventure movies, particularly stuff starring Errol Flynn (in the most recent issue of Uncanny X-Men, Marvel Girl mentioned a recent movie and Kurt said, "Please Rachel, everything after Errol Flynn is crap," Though I suppose he'd make an exception for stuff like Pirates of the Caribbean. Orlando Bloom is rapidly turning into the modern-day equivalent of Errol Flynn).

So, that's it. He's a light-hearted performer at heart. That's what they were trying to go for with the one in X-Men: Evolution. However, the comics version is more charming and suave about it. He's the type who'd take off his hat and bow when he meets you. If you're of the female persuasion, he'll give you a kiss on the back of the hand. Not necessarily out of any sort of custom or anything like that, just to charm your socks off really (hey, he's a bit of a ham sometimes. Nothing wrong with that). That's what we're talking about.

You should really read some of the old X-Men comics. Try the Essential X-Men books. They're in black and white on newsprint, but they're still awesome.

[Dogbert]

While I don't think religion needs to be present in every Nightcrawler story, it isn't something that should be denied like it was on KidsWB. If we're going to get serious stories, then his religious side should come up. For example, if Nightcrawler and Wolverine are on a dangerous mission and are waiting for back-up or something else, it seems natural for any conversation to involve Logan's realistic (sometime pessimistic) view and Kurt's faithful one, which can't be done properly with Kurt without something overtly religious. I don't know why in the world KidsWB banned religious references for their programming; it's not like Kurt's occasional 'have faith in God' lines would create massive letter writing campaigns, especially if countered with Logan's usual 'I lost faith a long time ago, kid' type of responses.

[tb4000]

It should be present, as it is a part of his character. A lot of people don't want him to be religious at all for whatever reasons, mostly because they probably don't want to be "preached" to in their entertainment, but religion is used in comics all the time by characters, and the other stuff that happens in the stories more than overshadows its use.

[Wolf Boy2]

I have mixed feelings about the TAS and X2 Nightcrawler. I'm a Christian, and while I liked finally seeing an openly Christian character on a superhero show, I was also upset that an overzealous monk was all we could get to represent us.

Also, it was a little disturbing for me to discover that basically all of the other X-Men were atheists. That made them less respectable to me.

The X2 Nightcrawler was nothing short of disturbing, with his self-mutilation. That is SO not what Christians do.

So, while I think Nightcrawler's faith should remain (I honestly can't picture him without it), I think it should be more middle-of-the-road and general. Maybe not even Christian, but simply theistic.

He can talk about "God" and "Faith" without getting deep into the particulars.

[Dogbert]

The X2 Nightcrawler was nothing short of disturbing, with his self-mutilation. That is SO not what Christians do.Actually, I kind of felt sorry for X2's Nightcrawler with his symbols. He was raised with strong Christian beliefs, but called a demon by the masses. Enough of those mixed messages would obviously have a deep psychological impact on the poor guy and using "angelic symbols" may have seemed to him like a logical way to prove his non-demonic nature.

[Ed Liu]

Howdy,


it's not like Kurt's occasional 'have faith in God' lines would create massive letter writing campaigns, especially if countered with Logan's usual 'I lost faith a long time ago, kid' type of responses.

Who says it's Kurt's line that would create the massive letter writing campaign? :p

-- Ed

[Nightwing]

Who says it's Kurt's line that would create the massive letter writing campaign? :p


Yeah he's right. Animation vs soccer mom history will tell you that the angry letters from angry people come in moreso when villains make such proclaimations, not the heroes. "Dude, I so totally love evil and killing...I mean DESTROYING people, and its all thanks to my religion, [Instert Religion Name]."

By strange and disturbing I just meant that what I know about Nightcrawler alongside the word "swashbuckling" which signifies parallels to the life of a pirate to me didn't exactly MESH. So I was confused. :p

But I think what I picked up on the character from X-MenTAS is spot on to the descriptions you folks have so kindly presented. The one thing I didn't know about was his fandom of that movie start fellow. Garish physical appearance, polite, upbeat, slightly-religious, and charming. Got it. :)

[Arsenal]

Originally posted by wolf boy
The X2 Nightcrawler was nothing short of disturbing, with his self-mutilation. That is SO not what Christians do.


Except for flagellates.

Nightcrawler has been played three different ways to my knowledge. I've liked all three.

He started as a swashbuckler. The Errol Flynn, sword-in-tail pastiche was good. But then comics got serious. (I blame Frank Miller.) And so did Kurt Wagner. I thought his journey toward the priesthood was in character. Kurt is, essentially, a hopeful character; and when things got dark Kurt hoped in the Lord. (I always thought Kurt and Reverend William Stryker should have shared screen time.)

Recently, Kurt was played as an enemy of the dark arts in his cancelled series. He and Amanda Sefton went head-to-head with Mephisto. I was surprised to find I liked the approach--it got to the heart of Kurt's "look like a demon, act like an angel" dichotomy. It let him swashbuckle, quote scripture and fight (literal) evil. I think that aspect of Kurt could be used in television, also.

So, in conclusion, like the Christian side of Kurt. (I think religious heroes are inherently interesting. That's why I am glad Dust is finally going to get some spotlight in New X-Men. Then again, I like Mr. Terrific too.) Of course, I like the other sides of Kurt too...

Hmm, so I didn't add anything helpful, did I.

[Spider-Man]

The Nightcrawler I'm most accustomed to was the one in the late 80's, where his Christian faith was not really a defining trait. His swashbuckling good nature at his own freakish condition, often to cover his own insecurities about it, was always more of what defined Nightcrawler for me. That and his extremely unlikely friendship with Wolverine, and the way the two of them ended up arguing out the finer points of things that they agreed on fundamentally. As a confused teenager, I always envisioned that as something that Men did. The first Nightcrawler I can remember is the messed up depiction we received in the 1990s. I got interested in his character after seeing him in the 1990 animated series and tried to find whatever possible. Like you the version from the 1980s really struck a chord with me. When I started buying more trades of the older X-Men books I thought he was a great character. Now I don't mind his religious side either but I thought it was something they focused on a bit too much before Chuck Austen completely messed it up a few years ago. It's great that he has religion but how it was mishandled aggrivated me. I still find his introduction episode in the 1990s series to be a really well done story.

[Prism]

Nightcrawler is both religious and a devilmaycare,womanizing swashbuckler. That was his original personality and the best one. But the problem's that the various programs focused on only one part of his personality not on all of it.

[Spider-Man]

Was Nightcrawler one of the first mainstream characters to put a face (for lack of better term) as he did in comics? I know comics have dealt with religion quite abit but I can't think of any Marvel or DC characters with a high-profile like him who presented it as so.