Is Alex Ross right?

[DisneyBoy]

On the news page you can find an article on the great painter Alex Ross, who seems rather disappointed at the quality of the Justice League storylines.

Now, I haven't seen anything other than Secret Origins (pity me!), but from that I do get the impression that the writing on the show isn't of the best quality. Don't get me wrong, I like what I saw, but it stil left me slightly disappointed.

The dialogue needed some work, and I did feel as if Paul Dini's writing would have added an edge to the series that it currently lacks. Plus that last scene in the Watchtower seemed rather corny, "The saved the World" "What like a bunch of superfriends" etc. Now I'm not judging the show (how can I - I haven't seen 2/3 rds of it!), but from what you've seen, do you agree with Ross' remarks?

[LastSonofKrypton]

Honestly, IMHO, I think he is right. Don't get me wrong here; JL is still head-and-shoulders (isn't that a dandruff shampoo or something?) above most of what's on TV. But it falls short of the Dini Batman and Superman shows. The writing is not as sharp, the storylines seem contrived at times, and the characters are not as three-dimensional as I had hoped. I'm waiting for Wonder Woman to say something other than "Hera help us", for the writers to dispel the Batman Exclusionary Rule (when Batman is in the area, no one else is allowe d to think), for Superman to do something other than rush in headfirst and get his a@@ handed to him, and for Flash to be more than a jokester.

Hopefully, as the series progresses, they'll flesh out the characters a little more.


Originally posted by DisneyBoy
On the news page you can find an article on the great painter Alex Ross, who seems rather disappointed at the quality of the Justice League storylines.

Now, I haven't seen anything other than Secret Origins (pity me!), but from that I do get the impression that the writing on the show isn't of the best quality. Don't get me wrong, I like what I saw, but it stil left me slightly disappointed.

The dialogue needed some work, and I did feel as if Paul Dini's writing would have added an edge to the series that it currently lacks. Plus that last scene in the Watchtower seemed rather corny, "The saved the World" "What like a bunch of superfriends" etc. Now I'm not judging the show (how can I - I haven't seen 2/3 rds of it!), but from what you've seen, do you agree with Ross' remarks?

[Salvor]

I may not be a big fan of Alex Ross' work, I still completely agree with him. I've just seen 'Secret Origins' and I gotta say I was a bit let down by the writing... and the music. The music didn't sound good to me, it was annoying, unoriginal, and none of the characters seemed to have any themes (if they did, I guess I missed them!)

The writing was the most disappointing feature of the 3 eps. The dialogue was pretty bad, often resorting to plain cliches. And the whole martian thing was an utter Starship Troopers rip-off. Most important, it was all about action. Action here, action there...it looked like DBZ at times! (and believe me, it's not a compliment)

Don't get me wrong, I kindda enjoyed these eps... mostly. Still the absence of Paul Dini behind the script was quite glaring.

[The Green Hornet]

There are a number of problems with Ross' argument

1. the only eps we have seen have featured more than one or two heroes-- in fact the ep arcs that we have seen have involved 4 or more heroes

2. JL is much more action oriented than STAS or even BTAS and BTNBA lets face it when you have more heroes around you cant get away with having them talk a bunch-- then we would all be up in arms that there isnt enough action on the show

im going to reserve judgement until after some of the upcoming episodes, such as Brave and the Bold, Legends, and a few others-- i think we will all see a little bit different of a writing style

keep in mind that the whole reason that the JL is formed is to COMBAT creatures/people that one hero alone cannot handle

[Toddman]

Originally posted by TheFastestManAlive
There are a number of problems with Ross' argument

1. the only eps we have seen have featured more than one or two heroes-- in fact the ep arcs that we have seen have involved 4 or more heroes

2. JL is much more action oriented than STAS or even BTAS and BTNBA lets face it when you have more heroes around you cant get away with having them talk a bunch-- then we would all be up in arms that there isnt enough action on the show

im going to reserve judgement until after some of the upcoming episodes, such as Brave and the Bold, Legends, and a few others-- i think we will all see a little bit different of a writing style

keep in mind that the whole reason that the JL is formed is to COMBAT creatures/people that one hero alone cannot handle

All of your points are true, but Ross doesn't specifically criticize the show because it is more action oriented and contains less character development than previous Bruce Timm efforts. He simply says that the quality of the show is not as good as those shows. Ross probably knows that a show like JL would contain more outright action and less character interplay, he just seems disappointed w/the results. It's not a case of content, it's quality. And I think almost everyone on this forum agrees that JL is not of the quality of some of the previous animated series. That's not to say that everyone doesn't like the show, most of us do, but everyone seems to be taking a "wait-and-see" approach to the show. Hopefully, the best is yet to come.

Toddman

[Karkull]

I agree, but it may take a little while to get their momentum going.

[The Green Hornet]

All of your points are true, but Ross doesn't specifically criticize the show because it is more action oriented and contains less character development than previous Bruce Timm efforts. He simply says that the quality of the show is not as good as those shows. Ross probably knows that a show like JL would contain more outright action and less character interplay, he just seems disappointed w/the results. It's not a case of content, it's quality. And I think almost everyone on this forum agrees that JL is not of the quality of some of the previous animated series. That's not to say that everyone doesn't like the show, most of us do, but everyone seems to be taking a "wait-and-see" approach to the show. Hopefully, the best is yet to come.

Toddman


im going to have to respectfully disagree here with the point about the quality of the writing

lets face it --for an animated action series the writing isnt that bad at all-- and i agree that it doesnt come close to STAS but it is not meant to-- its almost a different genre of show


while the best is CERTAINLY yet to come, what we have now is far from bad, or even dissapointing.

[Domino]

Why does it matter what Alex Ross thinks? His opinion counts for no more than anyone else's. Sure, he's a talented painter, but come on, he doesn't walk on water!

When he writes a couple of successful TV series, I'll give his opinion more credence than any other fan.

I'm reminded of the EF Hutton commercials of long ago; "When Alex Ross talks...people listen." :)

[Batman 80]

I'm happy with the JL show and think the stories have been fine. I believe that the stories will also get better later on as well.

[Vin]

Well, if you guys have only see "Secret Origins," then I suggest you see some of the past episodes. "The Enemy Below" and "In Blackest Night" were much better than "Secret Origins", IMHO. I think the show is only going to get better and better.

[G. Wen]

Do any of the writters for JL have previous experiences in writting, or are most of the new writters 1st time writters? The reason why I ask this is because the scripts for JL resemble the writting style of 1st time writters; there's thought behind the script, but because the writter is still new at what (s)he's doing, (s)he hasn't develop his/her style yet, so the finished product is somewhat cliched.
The other thing I have noticed about JL episodes is that the 1st part of the story is better than the second part. The first part of the story contain more plot and character interaction whereas the second part is mostly action.
The writters do a very good job w/ character interaction, but the plots can get flimsy at times. In the episode "In Darkest Night", GL is accused of blowing up a planet. He doesn't deny the accusation, and even goes to trial for it. In other words, GL is a character who takes responsibility for his actions. However, the writers make him act very out of character when, after "blowing up the planet", he flees the scene instead of turning himself in. There were questions that the episode didn't answer. How did GL's chant stop the Manhunters when the Guardians couldn't? Who were the aliens at the trial that were booing him?
I do like how the JL writters don't put all the heros together in every, single episode, but I do want to see all the heros get equal screen time. So far, Superman has been in all the episodes, and sometimes, his character gets in the way. In "The Enemy Below", having both Superman and WW seemed excessive. WW could've handled what Superman was there to do.
Even though JL isn't as good as B:TAS, etc., etc., the show is still good enough to draw my attention every week when a new episode comes on.

[Batman 80]

Ofcourse the writing won't be as deep as Batman and Superman. The JL series is completely different from both these series. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion ofcourse but sometimes it just gets tiring to hear people complain about the writing. Its not bad and we should be thankful we finally got a JL cartoon to begin with.

[cysurf]

Why does Alex Ross always put his two cents into all things comic related? Who cares what he thinks? He's a painter! If we're going to gripe, I think his writing could be better in those Universe X/Earth X whatever stories.

[Salvor]

Originally posted by Domino
Why does it matter what Alex Ross thinks? His opinion counts for no more than anyone else's. Sure, he's a talented painter, but come on, he doesn't walk on water!

When he writes a couple of successful TV series, I'll give his opinion more credence than any other fan.

I'm reminded of the EF Hutton commercials of long ago; "When Alex Ross talks...people listen." :)
What you're saying is unfair. I mean, he expressed an opinion so we react upon it. As I said, I don't like what he does as a comic book artist (yes, I'm one of the few who don't! :)) but it turns out he said the exact thing I was thinking about the show. So I didn't bow to his arguments, I just happened to agree on them. When someone expresses an opinion on these boards, we respect it right? So why not respect his?

Otherwise, it's true we haven't seen all the episodes, so we cn only judge the show on the basis of what we've seen. I must admit I'm looking forward to the Aquaman two-parter.

[Terminatah]

WHERE IS PAUL DINI? BATMAN DIDN'T NEED NO GRACE PERIOD FOR MOMENTUM. I'M THIS CLOSE TO RE-ENACTING MISERY.

-Terminatah

[Maxie Zeus]

Originally posted by Desdiablo
Do any of the writters for JL have previous experiences in writting, or are most of the new writters 1st time writters? The reason why I ask this is because the scripts for JL resemble the writting style of 1st time writters; there's thought behind the script, but because the writter is still new at what (s)he's doing, (s)he hasn't develop his/her style yet, so the finished product is somewhat cliched.

The senior writers are Stan Berkowitz and Rich Fogel, whose associations with Timm go back to STAS. (Here are filmographies of their TNBA (http://www.scrye.com/~jallman/anbat/tnba/tnbafilm.html) and Batman Beyond (http://www.scrye.com/~jallman/anbat/bb/bbfilm.html) works.) So no, it's not amateur hour over there.

I was most disappointed by IBN's writing, but thought SO was pretty good, and I really liked Kevin Hopps' (I think that was his name) writing on TEB. Me, I'm reluctant to issue overarching judgements until I see the entire first season.

As for the "BTAS didn't need a shakedown period argument," I believe it did. "Batman Animated" hints that the show came near a total meltdown early in the creative process due to tensions between Timm and Radomski and the original story editor. Sounds like all concerned had a time of it feeling their way toward the launch.

And I don't think calling in Paul Dini is the solution. He's not a god. The show is a collaborative effort, and the magic of BTAS, STAS and the rest may have been a function of the chemistry of the particular crews they had on those shows, and that changed as the members went on to separate things.

[Karkull]

I give Alex Ross some credit since it was he who came up with Kingdom Come, not Mark Waid. He does know a thing or two about storytelling: his notes for The Kingdom were way more interesting than Waid's Hypertime fiasco.

As for BTAS not needing a grace period for gaining their momentum--yes, they certainly did! Don't let On Leather Wings fool you--many of their first episodes (particularly the Joker ones: Be a Clown, The Last Laugh, and Christmas With the Joker) were pretty bad compared to their later ones.

[Domino]

Originally posted by Salvor

What you're saying is unfair. I mean, he expressed an opinion so we react upon it. As I said, I don't like what he does as a comic book artist (yes, I'm one of the few who don't! :)) but it turns out he said the exact thing I was thinking about the show. So I didn't bow to his arguments, I just happened to agree on them. When someone expresses an opinion on these boards, we respect it right? So why not respect his?

Otherwise, it's true we haven't seen all the episodes, so we cn only judge the show on the basis of what we've seen. I must admit I'm looking forward to the Aquaman two-parter.

You're right, what I said was not fair. I don't mean that I don't respect his opinion. I respect his opinion the same as anyone else's. I just don't like it whenever I read an interview with him, it's like everyone jumps on his bandwagon, and whatever the man says is taken as gospel. I don't mean to imply that you did that, but some people do, especially in the area in which I live. I guess I overreacted to what I perceived was a globalized effect of what I see happening in my neck of the woods.

And to address another point at the same time, I thought the story and characterization in Kingdom Come were actually very weak, so I do not hold his storytelling skills on the same pedestal as others.

[Karkull]

Originally posted by Domino
And to address another point at the same time, I thought the story and characterization in Kingdom Come were actually very weak, so I do not hold his storytelling skills on the same pedestal as others.

Mark Waid wrote that. I was just saying that Alex Ross came up with the idea for Kingdom Come.

I thought that the story was great. As for the characterization...well, it was a cast of thousands! The characterization came through where it counted (Superman, Batman, Lex Luthor, Green Arrow, Captain Marvel, etc.).

[Calhoun07]

I have no real complaints with the stories in the JL series, but I would say that the focus of the stories isn't the same as the focus was on the Batman animated shows and on Superman or even Batman Beyond. And those shows all had a different focus than the others. Maybe the stories on JL don't work the way the stories worked on the Batman series, but isn't that the way it's supposed to be?

[Terminatah]

Originally posted by Karkull
As for BTAS not needing a grace period for gaining their momentum--yes, they certainly did! Don't let On Leather Wings fool you--many of their first episodes (particularly the Joker ones: Be a Clown, The Last Laugh, and Christmas With the Joker) were pretty bad compared to their later ones.

I never found the early episodes that weak. It's been a long time since I've seen the ones you just mentioned, but I remember Christmas with the Joker to be one of the best. Although probably THE best Joker episode was the very first one, Joker's Favor, written by Paul Dini.

In the span of all these animated series, Paul Dini has written the majority of the episodes that stood out to me as my favorites. That's why I want him back. He wasn't all the talent, but he was certainly a key player. What is he currently working on?

-Terminatah

[Tim Drake]

Yeah Dini obviously did good stuff. But there were other spectaculr writers in BTAS and STAS besides him. If I'm not mistaken Rich Fogel who is top writer for JL did Apokolips Now and Legacy. Also Paul Dini wasn't a series producer for BTAS. So there are a lot of other people who really don't get the credit for BTAS they deserve. I don't know if Dini is really working on anything big right now. Like everyone knows he had a falling out with Bruce Timm. Originally he was supposed to write an episode for Season 1 of JL but he had an injury which prevented that. I still don't understand how an injury prevents someone from writing an episode. I'm sure Dini has plenty of money to either a. have someone write down his script for him or b. use one of those new computers that will type out what you say.

Anywho on the topic of JL, the problem is the series suffers on several levels.

Stories are somewhat weak. In Secret Origins why did the evil white aliens take over the worlds?? Because they like it? In STAS Darkseid took over planets in search of the anti-life equation and because he psychically feeds of the despair of others. The white aliens had no motive to speak of. In "In Blackest Night" the trial made very little sense. Green Lantern was not responsible for the planet's supposed destruction. He was tailing Kanjar Ro who fired on GL first. GL takes down Kanjar Ro's ship, and then GL fires against the space armada in self-defense. I study Law at UCSB there's no way you can hold Green Lantern guilty in that type of situation.

Dialouge is weak and repetitive. Three episodes and Superman has already we apologize for the intrusion twice. Twice I have heard the phrase "Who gave you the right?" Once in Secret Origins and once in The Enemy Below. Its as if its easier to reuse lines then think of new ones.

Finally the music just plain sucks. I'm sorry but I actually feel I could do a better job than they do. I have done composing and arranging and my experience tells me that they just got lazy on this as well. They either loop tracks or just constantly replay themes, but it bothers me to no avail. Watch Part 1 of Secret Origins when they fight against the Manhunters. They play this 10 second musical fight theme that repeats throughout the entire fight. It also shows up again when the JL shows up on Ajuris (4 or 5). There are no character themes in JL. The first thing that bothered me when I sat down to which Secret Origins was the lack of character themes. I loved Shirley Walker's themes of Batman and Superman. There were other less heard themes as well such as Joker Batgirl and even Robin. I love The Dick Grayson Robin theme epescially. What most people don't notice is that in Robin's Reckoning Robin has an interesting theme that resurfaced slightly adapted and more powerful in TNBA as Nightwing's Theme!! If they wanted to they could have made Seven hero themes for Justice League. I'm not even asking for that. I'd be fine with Batman theme when he shows up. Superman theme. And then occassional variations on a Justice Leage team theme.

So in my opinion? Sure having Dini back would be great. But I miss Shirley Walker. I miss the full orchestra sounds she had. Kris Karter was great on Batman Beyond, but JL needs a more traditional orchestrated soundtrack.

[Maxie Zeus]

I believe we heard that Dini suffered a wrist injury. That would explain the writing problem, especially if, like a lot of writers, he basically composes thru his pen/keyboard.

Music: I agree that the scores have been weaker than we are used to. It may be a budgetary issue, though, and they're doing the best they can under the circumstances.

[Terminatah]

Originally posted by Tim Drake
Like everyone knows he had a falling out with Bruce Timm.

I never heard about that, what exactly happened?

-Terminatah

[X-human]

Originally posted by Tim Drake
I study Law at UCSB there's no way you can hold Green Lantern guilty in that type of situation.

I didn't known universities covered intergalaxtic law. Anyways, when you blow up an entire planet on accident, killing off an entire species, it raises a few eye brows. I think the main point of that case was if one individual should be given enough power to destory entire planets. Sure, the death sentance was rather extreme, but the case itself was valid. It's not like police officers today can go speeding down the middle of a residential street shoting at a fugitive car, blow off a few little kids heads, and say "Oh, we weren't aiming for them" and fully expect to walk out of the police station with their gun and badge after filing a report.

What amazed me about that episode was that nobody noticed that the planet was actually there. I mean, come one, whenever something happens in outer space, I don't care what it is, scientist jump up and down like they need to go potty. You're telling me that after a planet's destruction, not ONE SINGLE SCIENTIST wanted to see the effects of dramatic changes of gravity or some other theory after that planet bite the dust? And if those scientist did check it out, they didn't find it odd that their theories were flat out wrong in this case even though every thing else says yes? I mean, even Superman noticed that the moon was still in orbit. You're telling me not one single scan was at least preformed after the explosion and it didn't look the least bit odd? That I didn't buy. And wouldn't the people on the planet notice they weren't blown up? Were all signals block from that planet and all ships disabled from flying off that rock? And what were they doing on the planet if it seemed just a cig butt tossed into the wrong hole could spell disaster for the whole race? Or even scavengers looking for a few items that survied would have noticed that the debre wasn't actually there.

But I think the main problem with JL so far is that they're dealing with more than one superhero, and people are becoming lost in the suffle. The Aquaman episode was pretty good with how much it focused on one character, I think more episodes will be like that. They just wanted the first episode to include the whole team. Even the Green Lanter should much of his character, just not much of anyone else's. It's a problem, one that I don't think can be easily overcome without having incredibly long episodes.

[The Mad Hatter]

As far as Timm & Dini's disagreements... suffice to say that they clashed on the way the ROTJ edits were handled.

[Tim Drake]

I agree and disagree with you X-human. The point about scientists and others not exploring the supposedlly destroyed planet was very valid. But I think you still miss my point about Green Latern's actions. You mentioned that police officers can't go speeding down a residential area chasing a fugitive car and accidently blow off a few kids heads. Obviously that's true. But Green Lantern's situations varies slightly. Primarily there was no proof that John Stewart actually started the conflict. Law enforcer or not if a vehicle begins hostilely attacking you have the right to self defense. Kanjar Ro spefically said, that he made an assumption and fired first. Then a space armada appears. And I may be wrong but I think they fired first again as well. So even though John Stewart might personally hold himself accountable, in a legal sense he acted in self defense. Come on if some sicks an army of cars on you that will most certainly end with your death if you don't fight, and you retailiate in self defense with a bazooka which deflects off the attacking cars and blows up a building then the cause isn't as black and white as they portrayed it. Kanjar Ro nor his friends were never on trial to our knowledge. They shared at least part of the responsibility. Anywho at least that's my opinion

[Tim Drake]

Though I have no proof, I sincerely doubt that the poor soundtracks have been to due budget. The larger amount of electronic instruments than BTAS could be due to budget. But the lack of character themes?? It doesn't cost more to have the instruments play the Batman theme then it does for them to play a new theme that lacks punch.

[Karkull]

I miss Shirley Walker too.

Why is it that they dropped the individual character themes from The Batman/Superman Adventures (although, to be fair, they dropped the BTAS ones from the TNBA episodes), but they're more than willing to keep the same stock character designs (most of those aliens from In Blackest Night showed up in The Main Man and from other Superman episodes)?

[Maxie Zeus]

Originally posted by Tim Drake
Though I have no proof, I sincerely doubt that the poor soundtracks have been to due budget. The larger amount of electronic instruments than BTAS could be due to budget. But the lack of character themes?? It doesn't cost more to have the instruments play the Batman theme then it does for them to play a new theme that lacks punch.

But BTAS had a huge stable of composers. If the music budget on JL is tight, so that only a few composers are working on it, the amount of time and care that can be devoted to a score might fall accordingly with a resulting drop in quality.

But I have no proof, either. Just speculatin'. :)

[Toddman]

Originally posted by Karkull

Why is it that they dropped the individual character themes from The Batman/Superman Adventures (although, to be fair, they dropped the BTAS ones from the TNBA episodes)...

They kept the same individual themes in TNBA, both heroes and villians. The only character that seemed to lose his theme was the Joker. Theme music also continued in BB (they are especially noticable for characters like "young" Bruce Wayne, Superman and Robin).

Like everyone else, I also miss the themes in JL. The only theme I have noticed is the one for the Watchtower.

Toddman

[Karkull]

Originally posted by Toddman
They kept the same individual themes in TNBA, both heroes and villians. The only character that seemed to lose his theme was the Joker. Theme music also continued in BB (they are especially noticable for characters like "young" Bruce Wayne, Superman and Robin).

Yes, they did. The individual themes for Two-Face, Mr. Freeze, and several others were either changed or absent.

[Toddman]

Originally posted by Karkull


Yes, they did. The individual themes for Two-Face, Mr. Freeze, and several others were either changed or absent.

There were probably more changes to the music than I remember, but I know that they kept the themes for all of the heroes, as well as Clayface, Mad Hatter and some other villians. But I'm not that big of a music buff, I would have to go back and "listen" to some other episodes to be sure. My point was that the themes were not lost entirely.

Toddman

[Karkull]

Originally posted by Toddman
There were probably more changes to the music than I remember, but I know that they kept the themes for all of the heroes, as well as Clayface, Mad Hatter and some other villians. But I'm not that big of a music buff, I would have to go back and "listen" to some other episodes to be sure. My point was that the themes were not lost entirely.

You're right: They kept Batman's the same and a few of the others. Oh well.

[Gpoliceman]

I was blown away by the lack of defense for the JL series this post is getting. There are a lot of negatives in this thrend, so I will feel free to boost up some JL morale.

Here's what I think of the JL series after only three stories (7 episodes): the show is GREAT!


Want to know why?

Because it's a million times better than any of the crap Batman Beyond handed out. I hated 85% of all the BB episodes, no joke.


I like every episode of JL thus far, and I have liked JL more with every episode that has aired. Secret Origins was worst, The Enemy Below was the best, but all of them are good.

And all of them, the 3 stories, are already better than anything Batman Beyond did besides the first 5 minutes of Rebirth, the episode Out of the Past, the Shriek episodes, and Return of the Joker.

JL has already proved itself better than BB in just three stories.

Thats just what I think

Gpoliceman

[Batman 80]

While I did like Batman Beyond, JL is ten times better. Its the best animated series on TV right now. If I had to chose between JL or BB, I would easily choose JL. We should just be thankful for finally having a JL cartoon and stop finding things to complain about. Nothing on TV is ever perfect.

[jm5150bc]

Originally posted by Batman 80
While I did like Batman Beyond, JL is ten times better. Its the best animated series on TV right now. If I had to chose between JL or BB, I would easily choose JL. We should just be thankful for finally having a JL cartoon and stop finding things to complain about. Nothing on TV is ever perfect.

Here, Here !!
I'm equally amazed at the ratio of bashing to praise in these forums... As I said in a different post- We got what we wanted... Bruce Timm & Co. doing their darndest to give us a respectable version of the JL, and most people seem to just want to nit-pik it to death. Sure, it's not as psychologically deep as B:TAS or even S:TAS, but with this many characters, that just ain't gonna happen !! I think that given the daunting task of trying to be faithful to all of these characters (and the legions of fans of each and every one of 'em !) these guys are doing a bang-up job.

Kudos to Bruce Timm and Co. for having the guts to pick up this ball and run with it !! I, for one, would just like to say "Thanks !!"

[James Harvey]

Originally posted by jm5150bc
Here, Here !!
I'm equally amazed at the ratio of bashing to praise in these forums... As I said in a different post- We got what we wanted... Bruce Timm & Co. doing their darndest to give us a respectable version of the JL, and most people seem to just want to nit-pik it to death. Sure, it's not as psychologically deep as B:TAS or even S:TAS, but with this many characters, that just ain't gonna happen !! I think that given the daunting task of trying to be faithful to all of these characters (and the legions of fans of each and every one of 'em !) these guys are doing a bang-up job.

Kudos to Bruce Timm and Co. for having the guts to pick up this ball and run with it !! I, for one, would just like to say "Thanks !!"

Exactly! I didn't expect this series to be as psychologically intense as Batman, or even Superman. This is an action show. It was stated early on that this series would be full of action - and they have been pulling that out in spades. The action sequences in this series tends to be really well done and enjoyable. Granted the animation could be better from time to time, but overall their doing a great job. Get TMS on here and we have a perfect action series.

JLA (even the comic) is about action and adventure - and they're giving us what we want.

[cysurf]

I agree, the show is great and we should thank our lucky stars that it's even on! Obviously you all must like it or you wouldn't take the time to come to a JL message board in the first place ;) .

[Karkull]

I never said that I hated it, and I don't think anyone else did either. Like anything else that others care passionately about we were merely expressing our opinion on the subject. Trust me, if I didn't love the show I wouldn't bother coming here!

[neilf]

The plots are the only thing that isn't all that bad in JL. The execution of the story i.e. voice acting, direction, characterization is where the problem is. JL is not going to convert anyone over to animation the way BTAS and STAS could. My wife and several of my friends could care less about these animated shows. HOWEVER, when I got them to watch selected episodes of STAS and BTAS they were surprised at how "adult" they were. They were very entertained and had a change in their perception of what "cartoons" could do. They all had to admit that "hey this is really good". JL isn't anywhere near that level. Bring back Paul Dini and let's get back to characterization and character interaction that made BTAS and STAS so darned good. The dialogue just isn't natural. There is no trace of character building such as showing them out of cotume, strong supportingh characters, etc.