Cartoons are just for kids myth

[Psycho Fox]

I was watching history of war thurdays on the Canadain History Television yesterday, they were talking about WWII cartoons. It is clear that the myth wasn't around then. So when and how did it come and why was it bascily only the US that got into the mind set and what would it take to correct it?

More mature cartoons?

Import sex ed cartoons and get schools to show them?

A block buster mature cartoon?

A flood of new war cartoons?

what?

[Deltamon]

To be honest, it'd take a miracle.


Hollywood kinda has the right idea-by making animated films with a more mature storyline and characterization, it'll help people see that animation is just another medium for storytelling, rather than a genre aimed at younger viewers.

Thing is, none of the movies intended to do that tend to *force* themselves too much to be adult, rather than take that advantage of the easier-to create medium for filming; for no matter how mind-numbingly agonizing it is to animate all those frames, when it comes to telling a certain scene, it's *MUCH* more cost-effective and rewarding to simply animate it rather than try to do it live-action.

Japan has the advantage of not having much choice-with so few people willing to invest millions to create live-action blockbuster films outside of the occasional Rubber Monster B-movie, they rely on animation to bring their stories (many of them NOT for kiddies, period!) to life. Hence the creation of Anime.

During wartime, with so many men getting drafted, there weren't enough folks willing to take their time to participate in acting for movies (with exceptions, obviously), so the best way to vent one's desire to visually tell a story on the big screen was with animated films. During those days, the demand for entertainment for both adults and children was high, and so's the creation of man now-classical cartoons was, too. Also, many cartoons were used for educational purposes as well, adding to the demand.

These days, with so much PC going about, people are almost afraid to make mature cartoons. Yes, the likes of South Park, et al. show that there ARE some Americans out there with the guts to let themselves be heard despite the controversy, but c'mon...crude toilet humor does not a Mature cartoon make.

Conclusion (YES, there's one): We GOT the potencial, we SORTA have the idea-we just haven't GOTTEN there yet! And until we find out what it is we truly need to make an adult animated feature respectable, we're gonna be overlooked for a LOOOONG while.


Sorry 'bout the long post-got wordy-happy there :p :p :p

[Joe Tully]

We had a discussion on this at the TTTP at http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6562

The best answer we could come up with is that it all started with a mouse. Disney's cartoons seem to be the first ones to be really kiddified, others appealed more to both kids & adults. For some reason, now everyone assumes that only CG animation can appeal to both kids & adults in the same way that the old Looney Tunes, Fleischers, etc. did. Though Disney did make some good stuff for adults and kids, Walt seemed to emphasize kids, esp. when the material went onto TV. I wish I had a copy of "That's All Folks" so I could understand the reference made in that thread better though.

[Deltamon]

Oh, yes...Disney...

Problem with Disney is, no matter HOW mature they try to make their films (Atlantis comes to mind), they also have loads of Disney kiddie merchandise popping up soon afterwards.

Stop doing oxymorons, ya mooks!

:dot: :wakko: :yakko:

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Definitely Disney. It made such a huge impact with its relentless self-promoting that it forever ingrained into people's minds that cartoons should be lovable and cute in the Disney tradition.

To be fair to Walt, though, I don't think he was looking at the repercussions, because he ran into problems when he tried to do something different with cartoons too. Oops. Hey, you gotta lose something when you're trying to build a corporate empire.

[Psycho Fox]

You mentioned why Japan is diffent but Europe is too. The French Lotia Lotia shorts make Minerva Mink look tame, can you say Hello Nurse:yakko::wakko: I knew you could;). Even Canada doesn't really have the myth just look at some of the more mature NFB shorts.

Maybe globalization will kill the myth in the US.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

It really just takes time. The public perception is still largely ruled by baby boomer opinion. I think younger audiences right now, from pre-teens to college kids, are more accepting of the notion of "mature" animation.

When the baby boomer generation starts fading out and the younger generation starts taking over public opinion, attitudes will probably change.

No offense to you baby boomers out there.

[Deltamon]

Maybe globalization will kill the myth in the US.


Let's hope so. And the reason I forgot to mention Europe was, well, I forgot :( :o :p

[Karkull]

Please don't dismiss South Park as "crude toliet humor." Talking feces aside, South Park rivals The Simpsons in terms of thoughtful commentary and well-written stories.

[Nightwing]

Originally posted by Karkull
Please don't dismiss South Park as "crude toliet humor." Talking feces aside, South Park rivals The Simpsons in terms of thoughtful commentary and well-written stories.

Agreed. Anyway, even though I don't like how things are for Animation here in America, I'm not sure I want them on the same level as Japan's culture. I don't really want more "adult" type content (although I'm talking about lower level stuff, not sex) in animation JUST because you can. Besides, I want there to be a low content of that adult type stuff I'm refering to, but because we as a culture and Animation creators and writers chose it.

So in regards to Animation's standing on the kiddie myth AND the culture censor thing, I don't really agree that Japan has an "advantage" so to speak, because when America finaly abandons that myth I want things to be slightly different.

[Leaping Larry Jojo]

Just to interject, more than 50% of the cartoons in Japan are for kids. While it is true adults there will be more accepting of an anime adult oriented show or movie, it is not some glorious land where everyone and their grandpa watches cartoons as you think. The common salaryman or homemaker prefer watch live action dramas and sitcoms.

Very rarely do anime like Cowboy Bebop or Evangelion catch an audience outside of the anime geek fanbase. The highest rated anime shows are still mostly boring family shows or ones for really little kids.

Miyazaki is an exception there because he's like a Disney figure, I guess. Even though he isn't like Walt Disney at all, if you know what I mean.

[Psycho Fox]

Originally posted by Nightwing


Agreed. Anyway, even though I don't like how things are for Animation here in America, I'm not sure I want them on the same level as Japan's culture. I don't really want more "adult" type content (although I'm talking about lower level stuff, not sex) in animation JUST because you can. Besides, I want there to be a low content of that adult type stuff I'm refering to, but because we as a culture and Animation creators and writers chose it.

So in regards to Animation's standing on the kiddie myth AND the culture censor thing, I don't really agree that Japan has an "advantage" so to speak, because when America finaly abandons that myth I want things to be slightly different. While I too don't want to see US animation become more like Japan I see no reason why it can't be more like European.

[Calhoun07]

What I want from American animation:

Freedom to tell serious stories outside of a fantasy/sci fi realm in the movie theater.

Freedom to create an animated series that does not appeal to kids and uses human drama and the dynamics of life to propell the story rather than humor and action.

Brad Bird given creative freedom to produce as many films as he wants and how he wants. I want to see Brad Bird develop a studio that rivals Pixar.

Same with Bruce Timm. If he got away from the DC characters and tried something hard hitting and different, perhaps even with original characters, I think it would do well. He needs his own animation studio too.

Get away from anime. I LOVE anime, but anime is the only serious animation we have for adults in this country. Why can't America produce great works of animation for movie and TV that are grand in scope and tell a massive story over a series of episodes and uses different forms of art other than the ones we are accustomed to seeing on the screen>

[Sheamon]

In Japan, animation is seen as just another form of entertainment. Since live action stuff can get so expensive, many times they make the thing animated instead to save money (Perfect Blue comes to mind, that was supposed to be live action originally). Some animation is for kids, some's for girl's, some's for boys, some's for perverts, some's for sports fans, some's for martial arts fans, etc... I think one of the big reasons why the 'myth' still exists here in the US is because we're such an entertainment soceity and animation is rarely looked at as a cheaper alternative.

[Deltamon]

Pretty much what I said before, Sheamon.

And YES, I would not mind seeing American animation not try to make 'US Anime'. The concept worked well with Jackie Chan Adventures (which was animated in Europe anyway, right?), it just barely works with Totally Spies (ditto on the Euro thing-different company, though), but mark my word if someone's gonna try to all-out try to make a Stateside Anime and only end up making it work %30 (I'm being generous).

Artwork aside, what makes Anime compelling (most of the time) is their ability to tell a story-ANY story, not just Sci-fi/Fantasy-and not be afraid to sugarcoat it.

If the US insists on copying from Anime, copy THAT
:mad: :mad: :mad: