"Alive!" and "Destroyer" on YTV Tonight (spoilers)

[jlaking]

Tonight YTV will be airing the final two episodes of JLU and it has been a fun ride.

[ShadowWolf]

Wow.

If this is really the end of the series then it's one hell of a way to go.

Very enjoyable and sad that there will be no more episodes to look forward everyweek.

One hell of a battle.

[DisneyBoy]

After having given both these episodes quite a bit of thought as of late, and quite a bit of slack...I'd like to point out some of the two-parter's detractors.

Brace yourselves.

Superman. George Newburn's vocal performance in the role went from tired and friendly to mean and pompous. I really didn't care for any of his lines in either of these episodes. The two exceptions being "It's Lex flipping Luthor!" and "Getting soft in your old age". The rest was just, "I'll take a piece of that/I'm so tired of not being able to punch folks as hard as I'd like to." Can anyone relate to that? This didn't sound like Superman to me at all. If that's not bothering some people, I think it may be because that's what we've come to expect from this character as of late. Here's an honest question....did any of the "big battles" featuring Superman's former S:TAS foes ever top what we'd see on S:TAS? Short answer: No. Twilight introduced Brainiac and Darkseid and then killed them off?! I didn't even realize they'd died until seeing this episode, and knowing now that they were considered dead back then made "Twilight" less of an episode. Darkseid's last line was "loser" for pity's sake!

Anyhoo, not trying to rant, but the long and the short of it is Supes and Brainiac have become as tiresome as Shayera and John. One good death/relationship is better than several.

There are two unintentional "Team America World Police" references here. The first is the shot of the boom tubes opening up over Paris. I've never been there, but from what I know of the geography, the Eiffel Tower is not right behind l'Arc de Triomphe. Team America made a point of depicting Paris the way the States sees Paris, and arranged those two to be near the Louvre. Second reference: Darkseid "worst pain ever...times a thousand." So totally dialogue from T.A. :p "It'll be like 911 - times a thousand!" Sorry Darkseid...describing the pain in great detail to the audience doesn't make us suddenly relate to what Superman is feeling. It trivializes the scene.

The dialogue in Destroyer, for the most part, wasn't all too great. I think Dwayne is better at casual dialogue than dramatic stuff. His Diana/Audrey scenes were great because the two were dealing with everyday stuff. But his chatty, monologing Supes and Darkseid didn't work for me.

Back to the "this is a rare opportunity for me to cut loose" bit. That completely and totally sounded like something directly off a fan wishlist. I can remember reading that online, here even. "I wish Superman would cut loose during a fight and really show what he's made of." Cut loose. Ehhh. There was no drama in that fight.

The Daily Planet getting destroyed. Now there was an opportunity for drama. For heroism. Superman desperate to save Lois and his friends. If instead of the strutting smackdown we'd gotten to see Supes, possibly near tears, trying to find Lois amidst the rubble while attempting to keep Darkseid at bay, I would have been moved or connected to the on-screen action.

The best moment, as Merlin Missy once said, was J'onn's return. I felt Diana's joy. Heck, I've already seen this show several times, but seeing J'onn appear, and her cry out and hug him. Wow. Great brother/sister moment there. That was real. That was effecting.

Did anyone else feel let down by the animation when Lex passed through the source wall? It looked like a mix between the intro to Return of the Joker and some animation from Dr Destiny's Batman dream world that was left of the cutting room floor. Very unimpressive.

Perhaps I should mention Alive....

Where did this Toyman/Killer Frost relationship come from? I didn't think they'd even been in the same episodes together...

I really, really, really hate Lex's magic problem-solving belt button. What was that? No explanation needed. Just press a button and nerve (?) gas comes out of one guy's costume through the eyes (?!?!) or press it and it can turn Grodd's telepathic mental powers against him (!?!?!?!!?!) That was lazy. I didn't need to know the pseudo-science of why that worked. I just needed Lex to beat them plausibly.

Back to Destroyer...

How is it Shayera was stabbed in the wing and could still fly perfectly well at the end of the show? If you've ever seen it happen to a real bird, you know it doesn't heal quickly, if at all. Or how could Superman's outfit once again heal itself in time for the roll call? Ahhh...the magic of animation.

Interesting thing...Metron appears at the end of Apokolips...Now!

About that particular episode...wasn't Darkseid's plot to go and set off nuclear missle bases? Why didn't he just do that again now?

I was surprised Darkseid didn't comment on all the heroes his armies were now facing. When he died (again...something tells me the writers didn't even consider him dead after "Twilight" aired, and made that choice retroactively to give this two-parter more umph) Superman faced him with the help of Orion, Batman, Wonder Woman, Hawkgirl and J'onn. This would have been a nice moment to reference the growth of the JLU. Not a big deal that it wasn't though. I just keep thinking of all the other ways the Darkseid dialogue could have gone here, and so many of them would have avoided the "cheese" factor.

Back again to the "cut loose" bit. Was why Clark suddenly talking about killing Darkseid as though it was something quip-worthy? "This is a great opportunity..." I wouldn't be saying that if the building my co-workers was in just got blown to bits and all my friends were possibly out there getting themselves killed.

There was no sense of urgency here. Just grandstanding. I really dislike this Superman! :o

I'm tired of Clancy Brown. I haven't felt like he's tried much with his Lex this season. His "you took Brainiac away from me" sounded like he was emoting. Projecting the idea of his situation instead of feeling it. Heck, Tala's v.a. really got me in the moment when she pleaded for her life. That was chilling and disturbing. I didn't like hearing it...and that's because she convinced me she was about to die and didn't want to. That was great acting.

Speaking of Tala...what exactly did Lex "plan all along"? To use her as a conduit? Hardly. He thought that up at the start of the episode, with her help. They made it sound like it was some kind of season-long revelation.

Also, did anyone else feel like the "mystic conduit" explanation really could have applied to anyone? In the last issue of Superman Adventures, Desaad uses Livewire as an electrical conduit to transvert the energy from the fire pits into something capable of destroying the planet. See? Any character with powers can be used as a conduit! Maybe Superman could be used as an hypocrite conduit and blast away at Mr Terrific for being so darn modest, but calling himself Terrific anyway.

In some ways this episode was like that issue. Lots of character, staging and special effects. Not enough of a strong core.

Did anyone feel sad when they saw which villains were killed by Killer Frost? I keep looking inside myself to see if I feel bad for Copperhead. Is there some piece of me that does? *looks* Nope. Heck, I didn't bat an eye the first time Grundy died either. Who were those masked men and women? After five seasons, the show's answer seems to be "who cares".

Why were all the boom-tubes different looking? For the last umteen years, they've been rings of light with lines coming out of them, even when shown in 3D, and now they're...puffy white smog clouds? Disappointing.

Was there any explanation given to Darkseid's new look? From Lex's "You took Brainiac away from me" to Darkseid's "I'm more powerful than I've ever been" comments, I kinda inferred that Darkseid had bonded with bits of Brainiac or something. But that really wasn't in evidence here. For all intents and purposes, he was the same Darkseid with a new suit.

And here's something to think about...how could he have been saving that kryptonite knife for a special occassion, when he JUST got his new suit, and prior to that...was DEAD?

Did anyone feel this was the best animation of the series? I ask only because with "Starcrossed" parts two and three really really felt like the high point of the two seasons. This...not so much. Darkseid's face fluctuated considerably...the roll call at the end don't look so good in freeze frame mode either...even that slow-motion punch (a failed attempt to outdo the failed attempt from Twilight) was too slow. Darkseid wasn't flipping away fast enough to have gone through those buildings and ended up on the other side. There's an arc through the air when you hit a ball with a bat. Darkseid didn't have an arc. He looked like he was being panned quickly through the buildings or something...:yawn: Quite tame given what they were going for.

The problem is, every really awesome episode has enough of a balance of things that it doesn't all rest on the shoulders of say the comedy, or the drama, or the romance, or the action. This episode was 90% action, 5% drama and 5% comedy. Those two five percents shone so much because they were very well executed and also...a break from the action!



....so there you go. Some complaints. I've been looking at the good sides of these episodes for quite a while, wanting to keep my mind in the "lovin' it!" mode. But I really needed to get this off my chest. These aren't the best the DCAU have to offer, and are somewhat formulaic. But for a quick run down on what I loved (for those who missed it):

-Diana/J'onn. I couldn't stop smiling like an idiot, and I didn't care. Love them.
-Tala's last moments. Stefanie Lake, you've been outscreamed.
-The fortress going interstellar.
-"Twinkle Twinkle Brainiac..Tala's going to bring you...back..!" *shudders*
-"I demand to know what's going on here!" Funny monkey.
-Lex's talisman. The only explained victory in all of "Alive".
-The airlock. How he got him there didn't make sense, but that moment was a good one. Poor monkey.
-The Daily Planet blowing up. Holy moley...!
-The roll call
-Everything from the "power suit" surprise until the credits :)
-Wonder Woman getting the last line...and boy was it a great one!
-Finally learning that her name is spelled Sroya Bashier, and not Suroya or Soroya.
-Creeper getting some airtime. Miss you, you nutcase.
-The "That ain't Brainiac!" reveal.
-Tricking me into forgetting completely about J'onn when new middle-aged Asian Dragon Man appeared to lend a hand. THANK YOU!
-Best. Hera. Ever.

That's everything I have to say...for now :evil: Hope you enjoyed the episode!

[Crow]

I'll take a piece of that action.


After having given both these episodes quite a bit of thought as of late, and quite a bit of slack...I'd like to point out some of the two-parter's detractors.

Brace yourselves.

Superman. George Newburn's vocal performance in the role went from tired and friendly to mean and pompous. I really didn't care for any of his lines in either of these episodes. The two exceptions being "It's Lex flipping Luthor!" and "Getting soft in your old age". The rest was just, "I'll take a piece of that/I'm so tired of not being able to punch folks as hard as I'd like to." Can anyone relate to that? This didn't sound like Superman to me at all. If that's not bothering some people, I think it may be because that's what we've come to expect from this character as of late. Here's an honest question....did any of the "big battles" featuring Superman's former S:TAS foes ever top what we'd see on S:TAS? Short answer: No. Twilight introduced Brainiac and Darkseid and then killed them off?! I didn't even realize they'd died until seeing this episode, and knowing now that they were considered dead back then made "Twilight" less of an episode. Darkseid's last line was "loser" for pity's sake!

Anyhoo, not trying to rant, but the long and the short of it is Supes and Brainiac have become as tiresome as Shayera and John. One good death/relationship is better than several.

Too many people have tried to do the old 'new Star Wars stuff wrecks the old Star Wars stuff, wah wah wah' thing with Alive/Destroyer and Twilight. Twilight is my fave from Justice League and I do not accept this. Twilight was a great episode and the ending was fine. It was all about preventing Superman from killing him, and having him meet his end a different way.

His 'disappearance' (as Granny Goodness called it) was what it was, it was a loose end that Matt Wayne and the team were able to use. They did the same with Ghost in the Machine and Panic in the Sky.

In A/D, Newburn's voice acting is good, the 'world of cardboard' speech did feel a little bit artificial and cowtowing to long-dead criticisms, but he understandably had to do some extra stuff with his dialogue, what with such an important character (to his character) as Darkseid coming back into the story.


There are two unintentional "Team America World Police" references here. The first is the shot of the boom tubes opening up over Paris. I've never been there, but from what I know of the geography, the Eiffel Tower is not right behind l'Arc de Triomphe. Team America made a point of depicting Paris the way the States sees Paris, and arranged those two to be near the Louvre. Second reference: Darkseid "worst pain ever...times a thousand." So totally dialogue from T.A. :p "It'll be like 911 - times a thousand!" Sorry Darkseid...describing the pain in great detail to the audience doesn't make us suddenly relate to what Superman is feeling. It trivializes the scene.

I'll pay that. While it was cool to see Sydney on Terrific's monitors, of course it had to have the Opera House on there - that's still better than Lost. They have window views of the Opera House from hotels/jetty's/etc that aren't there/would have to be floating in the middle of Sydney Harbour! I also thought some of Alive!'s dialogue was quite weird - Lex's 'Little bit!' and other stuff.


The dialogue in Destroyer, for the most part, wasn't all too great. I think Dwayne is better at casual dialogue than dramatic stuff. His Diana/Audrey scenes were great because the two were dealing with everyday stuff. But his chatty, monologing Supes and Darkseid didn't work for me.

Back to the "this is a rare opportunity for me to cut loose" bit. That completely and totally sounded like something directly off a fan wishlist. I can remember reading that online, here even. "I wish Superman would cut loose during a fight and really show what he's made of." Cut loose. Ehhh. There was no drama in that fight.

While I agree with the first bit, there was drama in that fight I thought. Got me pumped.


The Daily Planet getting destroyed. Now there was an opportunity for drama. For heroism. Superman desperate to save Lois and his friends. If instead of the strutting smackdown we'd gotten to see Supes, possibly near tears, trying to find Lois amidst the rubble while attempting to keep Darkseid at bay, I would have been moved or connected to the on-screen action.

The best moment, as Merlin Missy once said, was J'onn's return. I felt Diana's joy. Heck, I've already seen this show several times, but seeing J'onn appear, and her cry out and hug him. Wow. Great brother/sister moment there. That was real. That was effecting.


You're right, the Daily Planet part is only effective when you're in the moment, when you've digested it, it does feel a bit shaky. If if was deserted, it would have been perfect. J'onn showing up was too cool for words.


Did anyone else feel let down by the animation when Lex passed through the source wall? It looked like a mix between the intro to Return of the Joker and some animation from Dr Destiny's Batman dream world that was left of the cutting room floor. Very unimpressive.

The music did it for me.


Perhaps I should mention Alive....

Where did this Toyman/Killer Frost relationship come from? I didn't think they'd even been in the same episodes together...

I really, really, really hate Lex's magic problem-solving belt button. What was that? No explanation needed. Just press a button and nerve (?) gas comes out of one guy's costume through the eyes (?!?!) or press it and it can turn Grodd's telepathic mental powers against him (!?!?!?!!?!) That was lazy. I didn't need to know the pseudo-science of why that worked. I just needed Lex to beat them plausibly.

A lazy counter-point I know, but we've always been fine with the magic grapples that tie around perfectly whatever they're fired at and nothing else. You've got a point though.


Back to Destroyer...

How is it Shayera was stabbed in the wing and could still fly perfectly well at the end of the show? If you've ever seen it happen to a real bird, you know it doesn't heal quickly, if at all. Or how could Superman's outfit once again heal itself in time for the roll call? Ahhh...the magic of animation.


The Shayera scene was the poorest part of Destroyer. Steel and the shield, bloody Atomic Skull again and a really bad 'final action shot' for one of the show's best characters.


Interesting thing...Metron appears at the end of Apokolips...Now!

About that particular episode...wasn't Darkseid's plot to go and set off nuclear missle bases? Why didn't he just do that again now?

I was surprised Darkseid didn't comment on all the heroes his armies were now facing. When he died (again...something tells me the writers didn't even consider him dead after "Twilight" aired, and made that choice retroactively to give this two-parter more umph) Superman faced him with the help of Orion, Batman, Wonder Woman, Hawkgirl and J'onn. This would have been a nice moment to reference the growth of the JLU. Not a big deal that it wasn't though. I just keep thinking of all the other ways the Darkseid dialogue could have gone here, and so many of them would have avoided the "cheese" factor.

Darkseid's dialogue was what it was supposed to be - all about Superman. The 'death's sweet release' line still gives me chills.


Back again to the "cut loose" bit. Was why Clark suddenly talking about killing Darkseid as though it was something quip-worthy? "This is a great opportunity..." I wouldn't be saying that if the building my co-workers was in just got blown to bits and all my friends were possibly out there getting themselves killed.

There was no sense of urgency here. Just grandstanding. I really dislike this Superman! :o

At that point he was on Darkseid's level. No anti-life equations, no Leaguers or parademons, just mano a mano. It was Superman reversing what Darkseid had been doing to him all episode. It isn't exactly like it, but think to one of Joker's speeches about how Batman's life and goals are worthless (...crying for mummy and daddy!). It's a good tool to use, have the antagonist rip apart the protagonist's philosophy and or explain why theirs is better - all the while being completely rational or 'straight' about it.

Any punches thrown during or after such diatribes are meant to be viewed separate to them.


I'm tired of Clancy Brown. I haven't felt like he's tried much with his Lex this season. His "you took Brainiac away from me" sounded like he was emoting. Projecting the idea of his situation instead of feeling it. Heck, Tala's v.a. really got me in the moment when she pleaded for her life. That was chilling and disturbing. I didn't like hearing it...and that's because she convinced me she was about to die and didn't want to. That was great acting.

Speaking of Tala...what exactly did Lex "plan all along"? To use her as a conduit? Hardly. He thought that up at the start of the episode, with her help. They made it sound like it was some kind of season-long revelation.

It couldn't have been, though. Lex said himself he detested the magic goobledegook.


Also, did anyone else feel like the "mystic conduit" explanation really could have applied to anyone? In the last issue of Superman Adventures, Desaad uses Livewire as an electrical conduit to transvert the energy from the fire pits into something capable of destroying the planet. See? Any character with powers can be used as a conduit! Maybe Superman could be used as an hypocrite conduit and blast away at Mr Terrific for being so darn modest, but calling himself Terrific anyway.

In some ways this episode was like that issue. Lots of character, staging and special effects. Not enough of a strong core.

Nah, I think it was obvious that Lex saw Tala's ability to locate Brainiac all those lightyears away, he then wanted to exploit it at any cost.


Did anyone feel sad when they saw which villains were killed by Killer Frost? I keep looking inside myself to see if I feel bad for Copperhead. Is there some piece of me that does? *looks* Nope. Heck, I didn't bat an eye the first time Grundy died either. Who were those masked men and women? After five seasons, the show's answer seems to be "who cares".

The whole Legion of Doom thing was very hard for the creative team, I didn't really care for the melee in Alive! because of the fact I didn't think much of the people in it. That's not to say that up until this season, they've done a good job with a lot of the C and D grade baddies. Killer Frost is great!


Why were all the boom-tubes different looking? For the last umteen years, they've been rings of light with lines coming out of them, even when shown in 3D, and now they're...puffy white smog clouds? Disappointing.

Was there any explanation given to Darkseid's new look? From Lex's "You took Brainiac away from me" to Darkseid's "I'm more powerful than I've ever been" comments, I kinda inferred that Darkseid had bonded with bits of Brainiac or something. But that really wasn't in evidence here. For all intents and purposes, he was the same Darkseid with a new suit.

That and his right hand of doom did seem a little weird, but I think it's more an inside joke in regards to KiSS rather than Tala or Brainiac!


And here's something to think about...how could he have been saving that kryptonite knife for a special occassion, when he JUST got his new suit, and prior to that...was DEAD?

Oh come on, don't knock the kryptonite knife. Tell me honestly what you felt or said when he took that out.

Do I need to make another lazy counterpoint argument?


Did anyone feel this was the best animation of the series? I ask only because with "Starcrossed" parts two and three really really felt like the high point of the two seasons. This...not so much. Darkseid's face fluctuated considerably...the roll call at the end don't look so good in freeze frame mode either...even that slow-motion punch (a failed attempt to outdo the failed attempt from Twilight) was too slow. Darkseid wasn't flipping away fast enough to have gone through those buildings and ended up on the other side. There's an arc through the air when you hit a ball with a bat. Darkseid didn't have an arc. He looked like he was being panned quickly through the buildings or something...:yawn: Quite tame given what they were going for.

When the time comes, I'm hoping for a widescreen screen capture of Superman from behind floating in the air waiting to hammer Darkseid as he pops out the last building.


The problem is, every really awesome episode has enough of a balance of things that it doesn't all rest on the shoulders of say the comedy, or the drama, or the romance, or the action. This episode was 90% action, 5% drama and 5% comedy. Those two five percents shone so much because they were very well executed and also...a break from the action!


Thank heavens the last episode of this show was the writers/everybody else just letting loose and not trying to a DTV style story or something - it was entertaining.

I lost my big Destroyer post while I was finishing it, when the talkback thread for it comes up, I'll get into that more than the other talkbacks that have been up so far.

[Wonderwall]

Man DB you go on for awhile when you want to eh:p , it can get sorta you know on that verge from being to making sense to making sense but sounding really annoying, you sorta drifted there on both areas:evil: . But yea I do agree with certain things, Clancy Brown really did sound off, J'onn and Woder Woman was great, J'onn kicking butt also awesome, the fights were cool( who didn't dig the slow motion punch ) but I thought they sorta copped out with hitting him with electric webbing. Batman...nuff said was also cool, after 13 years Kevin Conroy can still dish it out in the vocal department( Im looking at you Clancy ). But yea Cool finish, very awesome, only wish they could've done more but hey this was quite the ride.

[DisneyBoy]

A lazy counter-point I know, but we've always been fine with the magic grapples that tie around perfectly whatever they're fired at and nothing else.

LOL - So true, and I never really thought about it :anime:

The music did it for me.

Yeah, the music in this episode was pretty good all-round, but his expression in that sequence, paired with the corny animation just screamed "First Drug Experience" more than anything else to me :p

That and his right hand of doom did seem a little weird, but I think it's more an inside joke in regards to KiSS rather than Tala or Brainiac!

...what?

Oh come on, don't knock the kryptonite knife. Tell me honestly what you felt or said when he took that out.

Okay...my thoughts were "Wow that green glow is a nice color I don't think I've seen them use on the show before/Neat idea, they never featured a kryptonite knife/oh wait there was one in Superman Adventures #21 when Kanto tries to stab Kara, but she says she's impervious to kryptonite and it breaks on her chest" :)

Do I need to make another lazy counterpoint argument?

I liked the first one. I'd love another ;)

[Wonderwall]

Was anyone here reminded of the energon knife that Megatron pulled out in Beat Wars when Darkseid pulled out the kryponite knife?

[dc_gothamite]

Was anyone here reminded of the energon knife that Megatron pulled out in Beat Wars when Darkseid pulled out the kryponite knife?

To quote Megatron himself... "Yes." :D

[Wolf Boy2]

Darksied probably went back to Apokalips and got the knife.

What I really want to know is how Lois, Jimmy, Ron and Perry escaped that building. OMG... what if they died? :D

Was Lois Lane ever referenced on Batman Beyond, other than the picture of her on Bruce's computer in "Out of the Past"?

[EricMontreal22]

I watched it tonight--I think it was smart of YTV to air them back to back (but why did they keep advertising all thru the show that "JLU Season Finale May 4, 7pm" WHAT THE F?) as I dunno if either would have ahd as much impact if I had watched alone.

i do have a lot of gripes, some the same as DB (though the only thing that confused me when watching the show was why the reporters at the Daily Planet looked so calm before their roof caved in, when there was a fricking huge ship right above them) but overall actually I was right pleased. I'm fine with this being the finale, and I loved how it ended with a shot of Batman's bat symbol...

However--when was Apocolyps (sp?) last shown or refered to? Not this season anyway was it? I know fans all got it but I'm sure some kids out there were mighty confused by all that and Darkseid.

And thinking back on this season--how come for the first half it seemed that the baddies were all trying to get various special rare items, and then they just sorta didn't care anymore?

Anyway....

E

[A.J]

IAnd thinking back on this season--how come for the first half it seemed that the baddies were all trying to get various special rare items, and then they just sorta didn't care anymore?

E

Funny! Ive been asking myself the same question over and over!!! Why were they collecting all those magic artefacts? What was the porpuse on that? Did I miss something or what? :shrug:

[dlb]

And thinking back on this season--how come for the first half it seemed that the baddies were all trying to get various special rare items, and then they just sorta didn't care anymore?



Those were all for Grodd and his plan to turn everyone into apes. After Luthor took over they didn't go after those anymore, he was primarily concerned with getting money to help him revieve Brainiac.

[DisneyBoy]

Dwayne or b.t. said that the staff in "Initiation" was a MacGuffin. In other words, just a test for Lex, and of no value to Grodd. I don't like that they stole something for no purpose, especially if it's got a cool name and everything, but anyways.

The Viking Prince had nothing to do with turning people into apes. Neither did Metallo going after the Kryptonite in Skartaris.

:shrug:

[A.J]

Those were all for Grodd and his plan to turn everyone into apes. After Luthor took over they didn't go after those anymore, he was primarily concerned with getting money to help him revieve Brainiac.

Really? Didnt think so but I think you are right :)

[Trevor Balena]

The Viking Prince had nothing to do with turning people into apes. Neither did Metallo going after the Kryptonite in Skartaris.

No, but they did have something to do with becoming invulnerable and killing Superman, respectively, both of which would have made it easier for Grodd to achieve his goals... and survive to brag about it afterwards.

[Karkull]

Perhaps I should mention Alive....

Where did this Toyman/Killer Frost relationship come from? I didn't think they'd even been in the same episodes together...

I really, really, really hate Lex's magic problem-solving belt button. What was that? No explanation needed. Just press a button and nerve (?) gas comes out of one guy's costume through the eyes (?!?!) or press it and it can turn Grodd's telepathic mental powers against him (!?!?!?!!?!) That was lazy. I didn't need to know the pseudo-science of why that worked. I just needed Lex to beat them plausibly.Man, no love for "Alive?" I enjoyed it much more than "Destroyer," which played like a better-thought-out-but-still-derivative-of-"Secret-Origins"-crossed-with-"Legacy." Without Lex Luthor and the LOD I would have been bored to tears.

I assume that the interplay between Killer Frost and Toyman was meant to be indicative of the tension between the bad guys that's been simmering all season. Just because this is their first meeting on camera does not mean that this is their first meeting. Besides, Toyman's "creepy kid" act would be really grating after awhile. Their fight was meant to be a fun break in the action -- the two craziest LODers facing off.

The one thing that ticked me off about "Alive!" and "Destroyer" was how they never resolved whether or not Brainiac was inside Luthor's head or not. It was about to come to a head and BAM -- no time anymore, now it's a Darkseid story! Whee! I wanted to know if Brainiac was indeed inside Luthor's subconscious, or if he was crazy/being mind-controlled by Grodd. The part where Luthor "couldn't hear Brainiac in his head" after Darkseid materialized was a cop-out.

[Krypton_Knight]

After having given both these episodes quite a bit of thought as of late, and quite a bit of slack...I'd like to point out some of the two-parter's detractors.

Brace yourselves.

Superman. George Newburn's vocal performance in the role went from tired and friendly to mean and pompous. I really didn't care for any of his lines in either of these episodes. The two exceptions being "It's Lex flipping Luthor!" and "Getting soft in your old age". The rest was just, "I'll take a piece of that/I'm so tired of not being able to punch folks as hard as I'd like to." Can anyone relate to that? This didn't sound like Superman to me at all. If that's not bothering some people, I think it may be because that's what we've come to expect from this character as of late. Here's an honest question....did any of the "big battles" featuring Superman's former S:TAS foes ever top what we'd see on S:TAS? Short answer: No. Twilight introduced Brainiac and Darkseid and then killed them off?! I didn't even realize they'd died until seeing this episode, and knowing now that they were considered dead back then made "Twilight" less of an episode. Darkseid's last line was "loser" for pity's sake!

I'm really of a mixed mood on this one. On one hand, I did have a sort of fanboy glee at the sequence; it felt rifght on a visceral level. On the other hand, the "just how powerful I really am" line sounded like it came straight from DBZ. Very, very oainful.


The Daily Planet getting destroyed. Now there was an opportunity for drama. For heroism. Superman desperate to save Lois and his friends. If instead of the strutting smackdown we'd gotten to see Supes, possibly near tears, trying to find Lois amidst the rubble while attempting to keep Darkseid at bay, I would have been moved or connected to the on-screen action.

It's shorthand for drama. It's like the Hawkpeople invading the Batcave;you use familiar environs to get a sense of invasion. To me, though, the hawks on the Daily Planet globe in "Starcrossed'" had a lot more impact.


Did anyone else feel let down by the animation when Lex passed through the source wall? It looked like a mix between the intro to Return of the Joker and some animation from Dr Destiny's Batman dream world that was left of the cutting room floor. Very unimpressive.

All of these surreal journeys are a ripoff of 2001.


Where did this Toyman/Killer Frost relationship come from? I didn't think they'd even been in the same episodes together...

It really shouldn't be terribly surprising that people would find Toyman creepy and annoying. I made a comment along the lines of "why's anypne talking with him" back in "My Name is Legion". I have no trouble seeing where a psychotic like Killer Frost would think to hersaelf "now I've got a chance to get rid of this little $#!@"

I'm more bothered that the Shade wouldn't have found a way to come out on the winning side. (or why Sinestro would give a flying fig about the fate of Earth).

I also wish they could have gotten William Atherton back to do Dr. Destiny; put him in episodes with Jeffrey Coombs as the Question and the collective creepiness factor of their voices would give people nightmares for the rest of time. :-)


I really, really, really hate Lex's magic problem-solving belt button. What was that? No explanation needed. Just press a button and nerve (?) gas comes out of one guy's costume through the eyes (?!?!) or press it and it can turn Grodd's telepathic mental powers against him (!?!?!?!!?!) That was lazy. I didn't need to know the pseudo-science of why that worked. I just needed Lex to beat them plausibly.

In defense of Lex's utility belt of Evil, they *do* setup the fact that Lex has been doing upgrades on everyone, and has taken the opportunity to implkement workarounds. It may be shorthand, but it makes sense that Lex would do something like this.


How is it Shayera was stabbed in the wing and could still fly perfectly well at the end of the show? If you've ever seen it happen to a real bird, you know it doesn't heal quickly, if at all. Or how could Superman's outfit once again heal itself in time for the roll call? Ahhh...the magic of animation.

Shyara is rarher tougher than a bird. :-) I seem to be the only one who liked the sequence; it was nice to give Shayara a heroic moment before the series ended.


Heck, Tala's v.a. really got me in the moment when she pleaded for her life. That was chilling and disturbing. I didn't like hearing it...and that's because she convinced me she was about to die and didn't want to. That was great acting.

Yeah. Juliet did real good in that scene.


Did anyone feel sad when they saw which villains were killed by Killer Frost? I keep looking inside myself to see if I feel bad for Copperhead. Is there some piece of me that does? *looks* Nope. Heck, I didn't bat an eye the first time Grundy died either. Who were those masked men and women? After five seasons, the show's answer seems to be "who cares".

I didn't care as much - but then I looked at the Key and the Shade among the bad guys and said: "two teleporters. They're not dead." I did feel a little sorry for Rudy though.


Why were all the boom-tubes different looking? For the last umteen years, they've been rings of light with lines coming out of them, even when shown in 3D, and now they're...puffy white smog clouds? Disappointing.

Niot to me. I never thought the light rings or the accompanying sound effect never worked for conveying the power of the boom tubes. This was much better.


Did anyone feel this was the best animation of the series? I ask only because with "Starcrossed" parts two and three really really felt like the high point of the two seasons. This...not so much. Darkseid's face fluctuated considerably...the roll call at the end don't look so good in freeze frame mode either...even that slow-motion punch (a failed attempt to outdo the failed attempt from Twilight) was too slow. Darkseid wasn't flipping away fast enough to have gone through those buildings and ended up on the other side. There's an arc through the air when you hit a ball with a bat. Darkseid didn't have an arc. He looked like he was being panned quickly through the buildings or something...:yawn: Quite tame given what they were going for.

Yeah, some of the things they did - Superman's determined stagger when he lwalked up to land a punch in the crater, Batman's acrobatics in avoiding the Omega Beam, J'onn's morphing - were good, but this really struck me as pretty standard animation. Compared to the animation in "Divided We Fall" it was a disappointment.

KK

[DisneyBoy]

On the other hand, the "just how powerful I really am" line sounded like it came straight from DBZ. Very, very oainful

TOTALLY DBZ! YTV used to air that show right before JLU, and I'd always catch the end of the previews with the narrator saying dramatically inflated stuff about the fights that were going to take place the next week. :p

To me, though, the hawks on the Daily Planet globe in "Starcrossed'" had a lot more impact.

Definately reminded me of Hitchcock's "The Birds". The destruction in Destroyer was kinda like "Well why not?" It got my attention and upped the ante, but playing up the sense of doom here would have been good. The only moment I thought anyone would die was when Shayera got stabbed. That was the *one* moment where suddenly I realize this fight had stakes. Darkseid and Lex's disappearing act was comparible to seeing characters vanish in puffs of smoke at an Ice Capades show. In fact, a lot of "Destroyer" felt like the DCAU Ice Capades Curtain call.

Interesting thing to note...everytime the Daily Planet building was seen under attack in JL/JLU, the damage was worse that the previous time. In SO, just the ball was flaming. In OAD the newsroom was on fire. In Starcrossed...okay so there were only Hawkpeople ontop of it...and here it was Bye Bye! My point is just that you really get the sense that the show was running out of ways to top itself.

I have no trouble seeing where a psychotic like Killer Frost would think to hersaelf "now I've got a chance to get rid of this little $#!@"

LOL - I agree with her finding him really irritating, but I just wish it had come stemmed from a previous encounter earlier on in the season.

Here's a thought...would any of the Doomers really bother to fight with one another over Lex and Grodd? I mean really...if this is a co-op, I don't think it's worth dying over. No way would Volcana and Sinestro give that much of a hoot...especially if Toyman could just pilot them all back to Earth. I know, I know, Lex *could* have killed them all (Don't forget his magic button!) but really...don't involve so many characters if it don't work. This concept needed to have it's kinks ironed out earlier on.

And Karkull, I actually really enjoyed these final two eps. I watched them on a special day and sat there like a little kid pointing out the characters I thought were cool :) It's just that I'm not a kid, and there are so many sloppy things I know the writers didn't have to do. I want them to tighten up. For next time. What? No next time? Oh....right. Last episodes and all that. *sigh*

Does anyone feel like the voice actress' take on Killer Frost is similar to another v.a.'s take on Raven?

I didn't care as much - but then I looked at the Key and the Shade among the bad guys and said: "two teleporters. They're not dead." I did feel a little sorry for Rudy though.

Good point. Although they were frozen, and then blown to bits so...

I'm more bothered that the Shade wouldn't have found a way to come out on the winning side. (or why Sinestro would give a flying fig about the fate of Earth).

Shade's a dork. He's got a magic stick. Ooooh! :p Sinestro on the other hand...isn't he an alien? Yeah. Why would he care?

[dlb]

Of the two episodes I'd rate "Alive" the best, as unlike "Destroyer" it has a plot, great character interaction, and such delightfully twisted lines for Mr. Luthor to bump off his opponents ("...why speak ill of the dead?" and "I'm a sick person too" :eek: :D ).

An all villian epsiode was a nice change of pace, and seeing the internecine stuggle within the Legion finally boil over provided a nice brawl that was free of the usual codes of conduct the heroes display. I have to wonder the reasoning behind the Legioners who sided with Luthor. Given his recent tyranical behaviour I'd have thought more would have sided with Grodd (crazy ape plots aside). I suppose Toyman did it because he liked his new "toy," Bizarro because he'd been conditioned to "hate" Luthor, and Giganta becuase she had an axe to grind with Grodd. As for the others....I guess becuase they wanted the power Luthor offered (though his sincerity there can be doubted), or they were not keen on Grodds renewed leadership.

The two stand out scenes of the episode were Luthor and Grodd's final confrontation, and the sad end of Tala. Grodd and Luthor are my favourite villains, and their collosal egos, personalities, and intellects make for good character conflict. I think Grodd is the superior leader, as much of Luthor's leadership success can be attributed to his cleverness and thuggery, while Grodd's can be attributed to his networking and management skills. Still Luthor makes for a better character study, and knows how to exploit his opponents weaknesses. Oh Grodd, done in by your own hubris. I was quite surprised that they were allowed to off him, I thought DC had a policy phrohibiting that? Then again he did say that he would get out of this, but its hard to see how. Super genius or not, how could he survive that? He's a favourite of mine, so I half hope that we will see him again, but then that could cheapen the impact of his death. Kind of like...oh we'll get to that in a bit.

Tala...what a great but patheic character. Being a scheming vamp and an evil soceress she never garnered my symapathy, but her constant abuse by the men she "loved," and her cruel death at Luthor's hands did get my pity. Ms. Landeau did an excellent job with her, and her futile cries for mercy were truly disturbing. You are sick Lex, but we love you.:anime:

And finally, the big twist, Darkseid's return. Saw it coming a mile away, but it's still cool. It may cheapen the end of "Twilight" somewhat, but that was set up as an open end, and we never learnt if Darkseid explicitly died (althought that apparetly was the case). There was no burning need for Darkseid to return, and it does come across as an endulgence on the producers part, but it does give us an entertaining finale.

"Destoyer" is a mixed bag for me. I liked it, as it is incredibly entertaining and exciting, but it does fall short in terms of plot and originality. Much of "Destoyer" can be summed up as "the Justice League fights Parademons," and however wonderfully staged and fun it may be the epsiode is very much an extended action sequence. Furthemore, we have seen the alien/Apokolips invasion plot and Superman vs. Darkseid before, and "Destroyer" does not offer much new in either department. But it must be said that none of the previous alien invasions/Supes Vs. Darkseid instances came across as this intence in terms of action and ferocity, (but then those episodes did have plots to worry about), so even if the tune is not new "Destroyer" does provide a great new variation.

What made this epsiode and gave it its drama was Darksied's genocidal goal of completly destroying the earth purely to spite Superman for his humiliation of Darkseid in "Twilight." Even if its been done before, Superman and Darkseid did have a great fight that was shocking in its brutality. Darkseid had some great, cold, lines, and that "Superpunch" was teriffic :D :D .

"Destroyer" did suceed in given every Leaguer and Legionere a moment in the sun, but I liked how the primary focus was on the big seven and Luthor. I was glad that J'onn made it back, and I'm equally glad that he's made peace his problems, (he's not even melancoly anymore!). Batman's persistence in the face of overwhelming odds was a nice touch as well, and I like how GL and Flash managed to suceed where they failed in "Secret Origins."

It's other flaws aside, I think the greatest weakness of the episode was the ending. It's just so abrupt and ill explained, which is a shame because its so intriguing. Luthor actually discovered the anti-life equation!! How?? What happend to them?? What was Luthor's alterior motive (there's no way he would just sacrifice himself)?? Batman's right, they're not dead, but will we ever find out what happened to them? I hope so, because that story would be far more original than "Destroyer."

In the end I think "Destroyer" can be summed up as a great episode, but one thats flaws are readily apparent. Despite the overall lack of plot and originality it works, and provides for an exciting conclusion. Yes, it's an extended action sequence, but WHAT an extended action sequence!! As the World's Finest reviewer put it "...the whole episode is designed to be a virtual homage to all that is super-hero (http://www.srch-results.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=77&k=super%20hero) action," and on that level its a smashing success.

Well, my favourite show is over, but with really with a finale like this I can't be too sad, because I'm still on a high from watching it. I hope this isn't the last we see of the League or the DCAU, but if it is I say to all who produced it, thank-you, its been a real treat and is much appreciated.

[Karkull]

Here's a thought...would any of the Doomers really bother to fight with one another over Lex and Grodd? I mean really...if this is a co-op, I don't think it's worth dying over. No way would Volcana and Sinestro give that much of a hoot...especially if Toyman could just pilot them all back to Earth. I know, I know, Lex *could* have killed them all (Don't forget his magic button!) but really...don't involve so many characters if it don't work. This concept needed to have it's kinks ironed out earlier on.Remember that it was a fight motivated by confusion and split-second decisions. There was no time to think; they were essentially abducted and rocketed into deep space and had to choose between siding with the monkey and the bald guy or they could die. Part of me thinks that Sinestro and the rest sided with Luthor not because they believed in him, but because they might be shot next for waiting too long to give him up.


I didn't care as much - but then I looked at the Key and the Shade among the bad guys and said: "two teleporters. They're not dead." I did feel a little sorry for Rudy though.

Good point. Although they were frozen, and then blown to bits so...?I assumed that Killer Frost pushed the iceberg out an airlock. Considering how this is the superhero genre, and they were fairly close to New Genesis, I wouldn't hesitate to think that they might have survived. Especially the Shade, who, in the comics, was shown to be capable of surviving in a vacuum (he's not alive in the traditional sense and he controls darkness, so tossing him in space is kind of like tossing a lit match into a forest fire). Or maybe he stayed conscious long enough to teleport himself and the others back to Earth. Who knows?

It was a quick shock. If the series continued they might have come back, but as is it was a way to shock long-time fans. "Whoa, they killed all those guys!?"

[jlaking]

Did anyone feel sad when they saw which villains were killed by Killer Frost? I keep looking inside myself to see if I feel bad for Copperhead. Is there some piece of me that does? *looks* Nope. Heck, I didn't bat an eye the first time Grundy died either. Who were those masked men and women? After five seasons, the show's answer seems to be "who cares".



I am wondering how Parasite survived since we see him again in 'Epilogue'.

[A.J]

I am wondering how Parasite survived since we see him again in 'Epilogue'.

I heard somewhere thats parasite II. Correct me if I am wrong please! :)

[Stu]

I am wondering how Parasite survived since we see him again in 'Epilogue'.
Could've been an entirely different Parasite for all we know. He doesn't look the same either, which adds to this theory.

[S.C.B]

I also wish they could have gotten William Atherton back to do Dr. Destiny; put him in episodes with Jeffrey Coombs as the Question and the collective creepiness factor of their voices would give people nightmares for the rest of time. :-)
Now that would have been one hell of an episode; Dr Destiny messing with the Question. I don't even want to think about what kind of nightmares Vic Sage has.

And I'm pretty sure Dwayne Mcduffie confirmed that the Parasite in 'Epilogue' was a different Parasite.

[DeathscytheVII]

It was a mixed bag. I loved it, and yet, i felt like they could have done more.

One disappointment was the lack of personality in the villains in "Destroyer", aside from Giganta, Atomic Skull and Luthor, they were all content to be pushed around. When superman said they were to be kept in holding cells, they just took it like little kindergardners getting a time out. Superman was shoving bizarro! and he was doing nothing! NEedless to say of the other psychopathic and aggressive villains in the group (toyman, Killer frost...etc..etc..)

[Karkull]

I agree. For "Destroyer," I wish it was more than just the League versus Parademons. Where's Kanto, Granny Goodness, and the Female Furies? I was so hoping that the Creeper would get a look at Mad Harriet and fall in lust over her (c'mon, they look damn near alike!).

[DisneyBoy]

Creeper and Harriet? Ewww LOL *snort* That's disgusting! :anime: You're wierd Karkul!


If the villain in-fighting had been distinctive, I would have liked it. It's not like that was the entire point of the episode anyway. But like "Panic in the Sky" it took up a lot of precious story-telling time that I would have preferred to see put to better use.

Here's a question - was anyone disappointed we didn't get to see the Orion/Darkseid fated match-up that had long been expected? While I'm glad the finale didn't give in to expectations, I really really thought that story was going to be seen in the DCAU at some point, since Timm loves the Kirby stuff so much. I figured, if Darkseid dies, Orion will be the one who killed him. But that didn't happen in "Twilight" or here. This was something that should have been done by Timm, I feel.

When "Twilight" premiered, I thought we were going to be seeing more of the Fourth World characters during the second season, leading up to that father/son battle. I think I would have preferred seeing Darkseid die at Orion's hands in JL/JLU than sort of left around because Timm thought we'd love to see him again.

Killing Brainiac off in JL/JLU was strange. We all knew he wasn't going to vanish, so why go this route? I'm never quite going to understand that one. I mean, yes, we did get the Lex-obsessed-with-Brainiac angle, which was good, but he didn't need to be dead for that. Then again, I don't think Brainiac needed to be inside Lex at all either. Why do I feel like everything from "Panic in the Sky" onward has been really messed up?

Anyhoo, as for the ending to "Destroyer" I just loved it. Everything from Lex's power suit return until the credits. Didn't feel rushed to me at all. I mean it's not like they were REALLY going to kill Lex or Darkseid. Darkseid's first death wasn't even confirmed until he came back! They like to leave things open-ended, and that's why this Anti-Life thing totally worked. It was like the writers saying "We're saying goodbye...let's give these guys what they want and not explicitly kill them." It worked as a vague ending, although the casual viewer who doesn't know squat about Timm or Kirby or the history will go "wha...?"

[dlb]

Killing Brainiac off in JL/JLU was strange.

I don't think Brainiac is "killed off" whatever Luthor might think. He must survive somewhere in the DCAU universe as in the STAS episode "New Kids in Town" he traveled back in time from the 31st century to try to kill the teenaged Clark Kent.

Speaking of the Creeper, did anyone else notice that he was in a sequence that featured all the other Steve Ditko created leagers, i.e. Hawk and Dove, the Question, and Captain Atom? Cool!!

[Karkull]

Creeper and Harriet? Ewww LOL *snort* That's disgusting! :anime: You're wierd Karkull!It would have been a funny moment that would have fit in perfectly with what we know about the DCAU Creeper. He's attracted to crazy female supervillains. I just figured that, in his distorted worldview, she'd be the Bride to his Frankenstein.

Here's a question - was anyone disappointed we didn't get to see the Orion/Darkseid fated match-up that had long been expected? While I'm glad the finale didn't give in to expectations, I really really thought that story was going to be seen in the DCAU at some point, since Timm loves the Kirby stuff so much. I figured, if Darkseid dies, Orion will be the one who killed him. But that didn't happen in "Twilight" or here. This was something that should have been done by Timm, I feel.I'm starting to wonder if it's less plot point and more a value assigned to it by the fans. We're all familiar with the plot points of New Gods #9 and #11 (see here (http://fastbak.tripod.com/ngfaq.htm), scroll down to question 11) , but Jack Kirby never finished his saga, and Kirby scholars still debate back and forth whether or not Orion was meant to kill Darkseid. At any rate, it doesn't apply to the DCAU.
Killing Brainiac off in JL/JLU was strange. We all knew he wasn't going to vanish, so why go this route? I'm never quite going to understand that one. I mean, yes, we did get the Lex-obsessed-with-Brainiac angle, which was good, but he didn't need to be dead for that. Then again, I don't think Brainiac needed to be inside Lex at all either. Why do I feel like everything from "Panic in the Sky" onward has been really messed up?Brainiac doesn't die here, if he dies anywhere it's in the STAS episode "New Kids in Town," where the Brainiac of the 30th century falls into the sun. Present day he's most certainly weakened, perhaps dormant, but if we know anything about Brainiac, he exists as long as a scrap of his program is anywhere in the universe.
Speaking of the Creeper, did anyone else notice that he was in a sequence that featured all the other Steve Ditko created leagers, i.e. Hawk and Dove, the Question, and Captain Atom? Cool!!No Starman, though.

:evil:

[warmachine04]

"Destroyer" has lots of memorable moments:
Mr. Terrific calls in all members. Members suit up for action.
J'Onn returns to the League
Superman goes all out on Darkseid.
GL catapults the atomic drill.
Giganta kisses Flash.
The finale. :D :D

[DisneyBoy]

Superman goes all out on Darkseid.

...actually Superman talks about going "all out" on Darkseid...


...which then prompts Darkseid to talk about the "all out" pain he's inflicting on Superman...


...prior to to stepping all out of the show. With Lex. Who just gave him something really shiny and bright, held his hand and said how beautiful it all was.


Awwww! I KNEW they'd slip a proposal in there somewhere! :)

[dlb]

Awwww! I KNEW they'd slip a proposal in there somewhere! :)

I wonder what Brainiac would think about that?:p

[Elderly Bruce Wayne]

I wonder what Brainiac would think about that?:p
From one super being to another, Luthor knows who to ally with.

Can anyone clarify the meaning of Luthor and Grodd's dialog "It could've gone the other way", "It really could have. Couldn't it?" Do they mean leadership of the legion? The battle between themselves? Luthor's line was simple enough, it only baffled me when Grodd responded to it.

Great cartoon acting (direction) of Grodd's efforts to resist Luthor's reverse mind-whammy and failing.

Luthor's magic all-purpose belt is quite a time-saver for negating other villains powers, but it shouldn't be anymore objectionable to Batman's utility belt always having all the right tools for the right job and often with a seemingly unlimited supply. I had to laugh when Batman said he was out. Good thing he didn't tell Luthor "I don't like guns". A twelfth-level-intellect-plus just may finally figure out that Batman is Bruce Wayne. See "World's Finest".

Did Darkseid, whom appeared 10-feet tall throughout his return, appear equal height as Luthor in the climax?

I love a good villains teaming with the hero's story. We love these villains and enjoy watching them redeem themselves. They may not go legit, but there may be hope for some. Take Giganta. Now no longer allied with Grodd nor under his control, what purpose does she have to be evil/bad? That kiss she planted on Flash should mean something if this weren't the last show, otherwise it was just a gratuitous valentine for the fans a la the Harley Quinn/Batman kiss. We could have a lot of players pairing off and retiring from crime/crimefighting.

[Captain Clown]

I didn't even realize they'd died until seeing this episode, and knowing now that they were considered dead back then made "Twilight" less of an episode. Darkseid's last line was "loser" for pity's sake!


What gets me is that it turns out that Bruce was right, after all. Suck on that, Clark!


Speaking of Tala...what exactly did Lex "plan all along"? To use her as a conduit? Hardly. He thought that up at the start of the episode, with her help. They made it sound like it was some kind of season-long revelation.

I'm sure that the all-along plan was the plan to use her as a conduit. She was shocked that he'd already been planning to use and kill her even before she turned traitor.

[DisneyBoy]

all-along plan

Again, though...what exactly does that mean? All-along? Since when? What was the start of the "all-along" period? Brainiac was desperate to be with Brainiac. He only found out where the he'd died at the start of "Alive". So "all along" really only means "since the start of this episode".

[Dens Maris]

It probably means he'd planned it ever since the option presented itself in his mind, so, yeah, start of the episode or such.

[Captain Clown]

all-along plan

Again, though...what exactly does that mean? All-along? Since when? What was the start of the "all-along" period? Brainiac was desperate to be with Brainiac. He only found out where the he'd died at the start of "Alive". So "all along" really only means "since the start of this episode".

Yes, since the start of the episode... meaning, before Luthor modified the Doom Headquarters, before the revolt, etc. Probably not an enormously long period of time but a lot of stuff happened. At first Tala thought that she was being killed because she betrayed Luthor but then she realized that was his plan... all along.

I dunno, I'll buy it. We're just kind of used to Grand Master Plans spanning over a couple episodes or so.

[Dens Maris]

Oh, and do take this jokingly, DB--


I'm tired of Clancy Brown. I haven't felt like he's tried much with his Lex this season. His "you took Brainiac away from me" sounded like he was emoting. Projecting the idea of his situation instead of feeling it.
-- but I ought to give you one of those anime punches where the guy goes flying off into space for that. :anime:

[DisneyBoy]

I'll happily take that punch :anime: I just got tired of Clancy this past season. The "thug" Lex really wasn't appealing, and neither was his delivery or dialogue. I was totally up for "desperate, addicted" Lex, though. Whenever he had a scene, I liked it.

At first Tala thought that she was being killed because she betrayed Luthor but then she realized that was his plan... all along.

Okay, NOW I get it. I didn't read the scene that way. I figured she knew she was being put to use because she was useful to him, not because she thought this was punishment she could get out of. Thanks. New perspective now.

[Cortez2301]

I actually saw destroyer on the 20th of februrary and I loved it.The very last scene has a significant ending (the last picture before they show the credits).

[Dens Maris]

I loved Clancy Brown's work this season! There were a few times when he sounded strained in "Destroyer", I suppose, but from when Lex came back in the power suit at the very, very least, I thought he was perfect. That and it's very hard not to appreciate the guy's talent after "The Great Brain Robbery." :anime:

[DisneyBoy]

Truly Lex's REAL powersuit was the one he wore back in the S:TAS days, pre-poisonnning, pre-brainiac, pre-obsession-with-godhood. It was nice to have the old Lex back again.

[Lef T]

Hey guys,

Long, long time, no post:


My brief my cents on the finale:

Part 1:
Really edgy stuff. When Luthor mentally forces Grodd into the airlock I felt like this episode was taking a new and distrubing turn...I liked it! Then Killer Frost flashes freezes half of the Legion...I liked it!


Part 2:
When Supes went off on Darkseid I wished he had been more nasty about it. He came off kinda lighthearted. Batman dodging Darkseid's omega rays was really hairy. I was like, "Watch out, Bats. Remember Turpin". I don't think he would have been as fortunate if Darkseid had tried a second time.

Of course, I loved the roll call at the end. After several viewings I just noticed the Atom residing on the fellow Leaguer's shoulder. Cute.

I would offer a more long winded review of the finale but I'm at work plus there are enough windbags on this site. Kidding!

Another quick note:
I have been saving money to produce a small film production so I couldn't afford cable and missed the majority of JLU's original airings. I think "Dark Heart" was last one I caught on CN. I steered cleared of this site (well, as much as could--had to check in every now and then) Recently, I was fortunate enough to view all the episodes I missed (like, twentysomething of 'em) in one weekend. Gotta say I was thoroughly impressed with the unexpected and risky choices Timm and Co. took. Really adult stuff: From the in-fighting to Supergirl's historymaking choice to Terry's revelation I was stunned. Even more so because I catching all these twists and turns all at once rather than week to week.

If this is the end, I gotta say "SOLID WORK". I was completely obsessed and engrossed the whole way. 16 years of monopolizing my time is enough anyway!

Lef T has left.

[Stu]

I'll happily take that punch :anime: I just got tired of Clancy this past season. The "thug" Lex really wasn't appealing, and neither was his delivery or dialogue. I was totally up for "desperate, addicted" Lex, though. Whenever he had a scene, I liked it.

Having just watched Destroyer again - I can't disagree with you more. He makes Superman feel mere inches tall with his "And you remember - you're only here to help me get revenge on Darkseid!" line, and his "Then I'm overqualified line" was delievered with such assurance and confidence - I'd arguably state it's his finest performance ever as Lex, as it felt like he was really letting loose without Brainiac, and then reverted back to his standard smarmy businessman after he went to fetch his power suit.

So many great perforamces in the episode - Brown, Ironside, Newburn, Conroy and finally a brilliant performance from Rosembaum. Truly a worth finale to a great show.

[Trevor Balena]

So many great perforamces in the episode - Brown, Ironside, Newburn, Conroy and finally a brilliant performance from Rosembaum. Truly a worth finale to a great show.
I agree completely... but I'm curious what Rosenbaum did in this episode for you to single him out above the others?

[Stu]

I agree completely... but I'm curious what Rosenbaum did in this episode for you to single him out above the others?
Just his pure energy when delivering his "Why don't you just throw it into the sun?... Yeah, that was a pretty stupid idea", but again, the man always has outstanding performances.

It felt wrong to not include him in the list - he's always awesome. :)